Is Carl Lying?

[Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll]

Finally got round to seeing the Don Was "IJWMFTT Doc".

In the part when Carl talks about mike love not liking the smile stuff. Carl says "personally i loved it" .

His body language and the tone of his voice suggest to me that he is lying. Anyone else think this or am i imagining it?

[Rocker]

Well, I had that same thought, but I don't know....

[Sir Rob]

You've hit on something there!  I think it comes across as him sincerely liking it retrospectively but perhaps not as much at the time as he would like you to think.  But I could be wrong...   

[Ron]

I don't think any of them liked it with the exception of possibly Dennis, it probably seemed like crazy drug music at the time.

Carl's attempts to resurrect Surf's Up though I think probably point to him appreciating the music at least THAT far back, though... so I think it was a thing where at the time, nobody liked it but after it was gone and they moved on, they realized the greatness of what Brian was trying to do. 

In the end, though, I don't think it's black and white, and Carl was just trying to give a black and white answer.  He couldn't very well say "I didn't like it then,  but then a few years later decided I liked it".   

As for Mike, I doubt he EVER liked it.  He probably just got on board to do his part in the band over the  next few years when they performed the stuff and things, but I don't think he would even today point to that album as anything special.

With all that said, I think Brian was hypersensitive to their negative reaction, if Brian was mentally competant at the time he wouldn't care if they liked it or not, he would have done it anyways.  Plus, we've got hours and hours and hours of tapes of Mike saying things like "Bom, de doobe doobie" and "Bom bom bom, bom bom bom bom bom" so he must have not been causing too big of a scene because there he is singing the tracks over and over again in the studio.  I don't know how much more support Brian could have wanted, you can't make somebody like something they don't, but if they're willing to try it and work on it anyways, there's no more you can ask. 

[Sir Rob]

He couldn't very well say "I didn't like it then,  but then a few years later decided I liked it".   

Well he could have actually.  How about:  "I/we didn't like it at the time but in retrospect I/we realise(d) Brian was on to something quite special".

Or even "Hands up, I/we was/were wrong!".

Of course, that's assuming he/they didn't like it at the time.

[Bicyclerider]

If we are to believe Brian's recent interviews, Carl apparently was not supportive of the Smile project.  I would reconcile Carl's comment with Brian's this way:  Carl liked the music and lyrics, but agreed with Mike that it was not appropriate for the  Beach Boys.  Carl had a unique point of view during the  Smile era because he was on many of the sessions.  I think he saw the difficulties and self doubt and paranoia that Brian was experiencing during these sessions and may have wanted the project abandoned because of both the toll it was taking on Brian and the increasing likelihood that Brian was not going to be able to complete it. 

Mike has said he liked the music, but didn't like the lyrics - if you believe his current spin on Smile, which is complicated by his legal stance that Smile is a Beach Boys property.

[Chris Brown]

I think you hit it right, bicyclerider.  Carl probably appreciated the artistry and creativity of the Smile music, but just didn't feel that it was appropriate for the group at the time.  Would have been nice if he said that in IJWMFTT, but I think he just felt that it would be easier to make it sound black and white.  Mike didn't like the lyrics, of course.  Seems like Dennis was the only group member who was totally supportive of what Brian was doing (evidenced by several articles during that time).  This is why I find it odd that Brian included the Dennis in the "did not like Smile" group a few years ago, when it's pretty clear that he did.

[Mitchell]

I think Brian's recent comments have been contradictory, but I think it was Al and Dennis on the "like" side and Mike and Carl on the "uncertain" side.

[Competition Clutch]

Carl may have been a late convert, say, in the late '60s/early '70s when the Smile material could be used for the progressive/FM sound the Boys were using during that period. 

[Emdeeh]

I don't think Carl was lying. If he'd wanted to avoid answering the question honestly, he would have simply diverted the interviewer's question as politely as possible. But he said he loved the *Smile* music, so I believe (based on what I know of the man from personal experience) that he was speaking the truth.

[SMiLEY]

I think Brian's recent comments have been contradictory, but I think it was Al and Dennis on the "like" side and Mike and Carl on the "uncertain" side.

In a pre-BWPS interview with Goldmine, Al said SMiLE was just a bunch of interesting fragments, but not worth the trouble of putting together. He also made a big deal about having to grunt like a pig. Doesn't sound too supportive to me.

[shelter]

Interesting question. Because almost everywhere you read about both Pet Sounds and Smile that Mike hated it and called it "Brian's ego music", Al disliked it because it was too progressive for his taste, Dennis loved it because he was Brian's biggest fan and Bruce loved it because, well, Bruce is probably one of the most positive people of the face of the earth. But you never really read what Carl's opinion was...

[Jason]

Carl sure did love Smile, I guess that's why him, Mike, and Al sold their votes on the project to Brian.

[Smilin Ed H]

In a Q interview last year, Brian said that Mike and Dennis didn't like it.

[Jason]

One thing I always admired about Brian Wilson - he's the best bullshitter in the world.

[Bicyclerider]

Al has said a few times that he felt that California Girls was the best example of progressive music linked with commercial appeal, and should have been where the Beach Boys stayed - which makes me think he must have thought the Smile music too far out for the Beach Boys.  Doesn't mean he didn't like it though.

[Jason]

Al has said many times that he likes the Smile material, but the thought of putting it together was daunting.

Remember the interview with Al around the time of the Good Vibrations box set? He was going on and on about what tracks were what and "wrong versions were used" and such. If he didn't like the music, he sure did know a lot about it.

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Carl played on the sessions --- I'm sure that while he appreciated the musical beauty, he may have realized it almost impossible for the touring Beach Boys to play properly. Since a lot of their income was made through tours and shows, being able to perform their own music accordingly would've been a very big issue. Brian Wilson on the other hand stayed at home, He recorded with numerous musicians, each wholly capable of many talents. He had hardly to worry for the touring Beach Boys; that was their problem, and while I'm sure he addressed it, I wonder if he cared more for the artistic direction of the group as an album band (Put to serious competition by the Beatles) or for the touring group being able to play well.

[Rocker]

In a Q interview last year, Brian said that Mike and Dennis didn't like it.

Before BWPS was released he always said that Al & Dennis liked it, Carl & Mike didn't. After the release, he said Dennis and Mike didn't like it (in interviews) while on his homepage he still said that Carl & Mike didn't. Al was always in the liking-corner.
In "Beautiful Dreamer" someone said, that Dennis liked it, but he left out a comment about Al (he gets overlooked quite often unfortunately)

[the captain]

Sadly, Brian is probably the last person whose recollections on the project I'd trust. And as for the rest of them, it seems overwhelmingly that they ALL were at least uncertain about it, and (according to non-band members in interviews) leaning toward dislike. The only exception I can think of is Dennis, from whom I've never read a negative quote about Smile.

But really, isn't is possible that they were all just like most of us when it comes to our tastes? I like this part and that, but not that. Today I like this, tomorrow that. And so on. When you add enormous commercial (personal financial) ramifications for them, it makes plenty more sense why they felt that way, too.

Based on their own music, though, it makes sense to me that Al might have liked it. His late 60s and early 70s music had a similarly quirky, humorous slant often.

[Surfer Joe]

The Return Of The Thread

I think it's easiest to understand what their reations were or might have been when you realize they were hearing it in terms of their career(s), and not as music-lovers or Brian fans (and some people have emphasized this point).

They might have liked it a lot better as a Jimmy Webb album or a Curt Boettcher album, but for the Beach Boys, they were hearing something far riskier and less commercial than Pet Sounds; it was even less performable than that album (which had brought some criticism on that point in England), and it continued the trend of reducing their own profiles and raising Brian's.  That last one was especially true for Mike- besides being deposed as a lyricist, he was also seeing his vocal role diminish a great deal, mainly to bass parts, with almost no leads.  And lastly, the album offered only one really good chicken-dancing opportunity ("Barnyard").

[Jon Stebbins]

Brian should go back and read all the cases of Dennis telling people how wonderful Smile was in the press in late '66..."it makes Pet Sounds stink its so good." Can't find any of the other guys saying things like that.

[andy]

At one point or another, in Brian's mind, everyone has loved it and hated it. But yeah, Dennis is a definite yes. Al said doing the vocals was humiliating at one point (the pig reference), Carl seems very sincere on American Band talking about Brian (and then he went on to finish some of the songs), Mike called H&V Brian's last dynamic track, and Bruce was excited about Brian finishing SMiLE, in retrospect.

[Rocker]

At one point or another, in Brian's mind, everyone has loved it and hated it. But yeah, Dennis is a definite yes. Al said doing the vocals was humiliating at one point (the pig reference), Carl seems very sincere on American Band talking about Brian (and then he went on to finish some of the songs), Mike called H&V Brian's last dynamic track, and Bruce was excited about Brian finishing SMiLE, in retrospect.

I think Bruce also said that he thought BWPS wasn't as good as the BBs original. Mike said this for sure, but I believe Bruce too...

[Ron]

Yeah, Bruce definately said that over on that 'other' message board a couple times.  I respect his opinion, it's a very valid point that I don't totally agree with, but hell he was there.