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650584 Posts in 25999 Topics by 3711 Members - Latest Member: whiskeyhill September 17, 2019, 01:47:22 AM
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Author Topic: Is Carl Lying?  (Read 11981 times)
Lorenschwartz
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« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2006, 11:48:02 PM »

If they sold them as a double package they would've got way more sales.

"COMPARE the old to the new. Hear your favorite hits and new songs from PET SOUNDS. Buy both today! and hear America's fastest evolving musical act sweeping up the world!".
Puh-leeze...i think not...Capitol did not stand behind Pet Sounds, i'll always believe that
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Olivio
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« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2006, 03:22:00 AM »

Well, as it has been said, they did take out several big ads for it...

"The most progressive pop album ever! It's fantastic!"
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Lorenschwartz
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« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2006, 01:18:35 PM »

Olivio....i know your just comin' on cause you're guilty, so
   why don't you just go put on a Hairy Nillson record, and Shut the f*** UP, already!!!!!

just kiddin'.
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« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2006, 10:56:36 PM »

It's interesting that trade ads are mentioned, because my understanding is how much money you spend on advertising in the trades influences chart position, or at least it used to.  It was a form of payola, in a sense.   PS chart position may have been influenced by the costly ads, so it might have been selling less well than the other LP's around it on the chart that didn't have as much ad money spent on them.  Plus, the public didn't see the ads, only industry insiders.  How PS was sold to the general public is more relevant, and the information generally included in the BB history books is that the Greatest Hits collection was given a stronger in-store push than PS.  It also charted higher.  PS was also a disappointment when compared to the performance of "Summer Days" and other BB LPs shortly before it, most of which made the Top 5.  It might seem like a small thing, but since Brian was self-critical, not to mention criticized by Murry, if his records didn't reach the top, it might have influenced his feelings at the time.  Marilyn's quote is in the Badman book, as well as Bruce Johnston and the vice-president of promotion at Capitol, and all indicated that PS promotion and chart performance were a disappointment to the BB and Brian, even though it at least reached the Top 10 of LP's.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 10:58:35 PM by forget marie » Logged
Lorenschwartz
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« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2006, 11:19:01 PM »

It's interesting that trade ads are mentioned, because my understanding is how much money you spend on advertising in the trades influences chart position, or at least it used to.  It was a form of payola, in a sense.   PS chart position may have been influenced by the costly ads, so it might have been selling less well than the other LP's around it on the chart that didn't have as much ad money spent on them.  Plus, the public didn't see the ads, only industry insiders.  How PS was sold to the general public is more relevant, and the information generally included in the BB history books is that the Greatest Hits collection was given a stronger in-store push than PS.  It also charted higher.  PS was also a disappointment when compared to the performance of "Summer Days" and other BB LPs shortly before it, most of which made the Top 5.  It might seem like a small thing, but since Brian was self-critical, not to mention criticized by Murry, if his records didn't reach the top, it might have influenced his feelings at the time.  Marilyn's quote is in the Badman book, as well as Bruce Johnston and the vice-president of promotion at Capitol, and all indicated that PS promotion and chart performance were a disappointment to the BB and Brian, even though it at least reached the Top 10 of LP's.
I'll Stand By You
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shelter
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« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2006, 04:44:15 AM »

I never understood why Capitol was worried about Pet Sounds. I mean, at that time they usually took just two singles from an album, so two songs with hit potential should've been enough for them. And Pet Sounds had Wouldn't It Be Nice, God Only Knows, Sloop John B and Caroline No...
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2006, 09:12:16 AM »

I suppose because someone thinks something it doesn't mean it's true and vice versa.

It was several years ago and it would take a month to find it [if at all] but I recall Billboard's album charts for 1966 showing Pet Sounds as 1 of only 35 [+ or - ?] albums to break #10 that year.
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Surfer Joe
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« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2006, 01:48:44 PM »

I suppose because someone thinks something it doesn't mean it's true and vice versa.

Absolutely.  Did Pet Sounds do well?  Did Capitol promote it enough?  These are subjective questions with no correct or incorrect answers.

What we can probably say safely is that Capitol wasn't thrilled with it- if their response to Brian is accurately reported- and that Brian was disappointed with the sales. To say that it truly failed or succeeded commercially invites argument either way.

If it can be shown that Capitol intentionally pursued a policy of pushing the lame Greatest Hits album at Pet Sounds' expense- and there seems to be at least some evidence for that- then you have another story.

It's human nature to try to make a story simple and clear, without a lot of grey area, but life is usually a bit more ambiguous than that.  It reminds me of art school, when we all circled around the model in drawing class.  When you got up and walked around the room, you saw the same person in the same pose from twenty different angles, with twenty different impressions: some more accurate, some more insightful.  There are many different truths.
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"Don't let the posey fool ya."

-Prof. Henry R. Quail-
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« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2006, 02:27:10 PM »

It doesn't matter if it did better than most albums by most acts, it didn't do well for a Beach Boys album compared to past album chart positions.  If the Beatles' had an album that landed at #9, after having a string of #1's, don't you think it would have been regarded as a disappointment?  Not to mention evidence of an act on the way down.  There was no precedent for acts having multi-year runs at the top of the charts.  Any sign of weakness or diminishing of sales would be perceived by the act itself, the record label, and by outsiders as signs of slippage and the potential for falling out of fashion.   None of that was lost on Brian, who seemed to have kept track of both chart positions and  money matters, if you believe some of his remarks over the years.  He was also keenly aware of the competition, and could probably name every album ahead of PS in the charts.  We're not talking about some act from Podunk just breaking out and grateful to be that far up, but an established act and leader with a fierce sense of competition.
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Lorenschwartz
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« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2006, 02:57:10 PM »

It doesn't matter if it did better than most albums by most acts, it didn't do well for a Beach Boys album compared to past album chart positions.  If the Beatles' had an album that landed at #9, after having a string of #1's, don't you think it would have been regarded as a disappointment?  Not to mention evidence of an act on the way down.  There was no precedent for acts having multi-year runs at the top of the charts.  Any sign of weakness or diminishing of sales would be perceived by the act itself, the record label, and by outsiders as signs of slippage and the potential for falling out of fashion.   None of that was lost on Brian, who seemed to have kept track of both chart positions and  money matters, if you believe some of his remarks over the years.  He was also keenly aware of the competition, and could probably name every album ahead of PS in the charts.  We're not talking about some act from Podunk just breaking out and grateful to be that far up, but an established act and leader with a fierce sense of competition.
Thats right, Marie, no retreat,baby...no surrender!!!
You are my Shinin' Star
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