Bruce on not showing Al, Brian and Dave in shows

[baseball95]

According to Bruce the reason Al, Brian and Dave are not shown in any pictures on the video screen during mike and bruce shows is that

"Mike and I were were asked not to include photos of them during our video 'scrapbook' video presentation?"

So sad to me....

Bruce Johnston
Montecito
December 12, 2013

It is pretty sad when you think about it

[SMiLE Brian]

No Wilsons, no BBs.

[filledeplage]

According to Bruce the reason Al, Brian and Dave are not shown in any pictures on the video screen during mike and bruce shows is that
"Mike and I were were asked not to include photos of them during our video 'scrapbook' video presentation?"

So sad to me....

Bruce Johnston
Montecito
December 12, 2013

It is pretty sad when you think about it

If I remember correctly, this has been discussed at length, about six to eight months ago.

It appears that it was not at the initiative of the Touring Band. 

This is hardly news.  I'd bet that a search would yield those discussion threads. 

[HeyJude]

This was indeed mentioned some months back. The ironic part is that there seems to be only sporadic interest in the Mike & Bruce tour here (compared to something like last year’s tour anyway), so we only randomly even heard that they had integrated the video screen into their shows earlier this year.

It’s easy to say that Al and Brian (and maybe Dave?) asking for their images to be removed is petty. But not only are there some potential legal/contractual issues at play (do the terms of the BRI license allow that particular use of images, also Brian and Al may co-own some of the material being used, etc.), I think given the mix-up with C50 photos being used on a few early Mike/Bruce shows, and the general uneasy way the reunion ended contributed to this decision. I can see Al and Brian’s point. Mike doesn’t want to actually perform with us, but he’ll pay tribute to us on the video screen?

If all the other BB’s were deceased, such a thing would make sense. But when some of them are still alive, well, and wanting to perform with the full band, it’s just insanely bizarre to have them up on the screen but not on stage.

I genuinely love how ironic our Beach Boys can be. Bruce doesn’t necessarily find not PERFORMING with Brian and Al to be sad (Bruce seemed to me to be happy about going back to touring without them; even before the reunion tour was over), but not having their images on the video screen is sad?

I still find it ironic that a year after a reunion tour, and with Brian, Al, and David all still alive and wanting to perform with the full band, you can’t see Brian, Al, or Dave with the “Beach Boys”, but you can in some cases apparently see and hear Carl and Dennis performing with the “Beach Boys” live.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

This was indeed mentioned some months back. The ironic part is that there seems to be only sporadic interest in the Mike & Bruce tour here (compared to something like last year’s tour anyway), so we only randomly even heard that they had integrated the video screen into their shows earlier this year.

It’s easy to say that Al and Brian (and maybe Dave?) asking for their images to be removed is petty. But not only are there some potential legal/contractual issues at play (do the terms of the BRI license allow that particular use of images, also Brian and Al may co-own some of the material being used, etc.), I think given the mix-up with C50 photos being used on a few early Mike/Bruce shows, and the general uneasy way the reunion ended contributed to this decision. I can see Al and Brian’s point. Mike doesn’t want to actually perform with us, but he’ll pay tribute to us on the video screen?

If all the other BB’s were deceased, such a thing would make sense. But when some of them are still alive, well, and wanting to perform with the full band, it’s just insanely bizarre to have them up on the screen but not on stage.

I genuinely love how ironic our Beach Boys can be. Bruce doesn’t necessarily find not PERFORMING with Brian and Al to be sad (Bruce seemed to me to be happy about going back to touring without them; even before the reunion tour was over), but not having their images on the video screen is sad?

I still find it ironic that a year after a reunion tour, and with Brian, Al, and David all still alive and wanting to perform with the full band, you can’t see Brian, Al, or Dave with the “Beach Boys”, but you can in some cases apparently see and hear Carl and Dennis performing with the “Beach Boys” live.

Yes, I'd say that's the very definition of the word (irony.).

[Mr. Wilson]

Thank You to Hey Jude for posting his thoughts..   I need a drink to calm my C50 blues now. 

[Shady]

Things must be so bitter in the Beach Boys camps right now

[Smile4ever]

I'll never understand why the Wilsons and Al don't take Mike to court--or do whatever is necessary--to revoke his ability to use "The Beach Boys" as his band name. That's so damaging to the BB brand, and after the 50th Anniversary tour, this lame cover band gig should be up.

[bluesno1fann]

I'll never understand why the Wilsons and Al don't take Mike to court--or do whatever is necessary--to revoke his ability to use "The Beach Boys" as his band name. That's so damaging to the BB brand, and after the 50th Anniversary tour, this lame cover band gig should be up.

Wilsons? You mean just Brian, as the other Wilsons are bereft of life.
Sadly, Brian and the others can't do anything because Mike legally owns the Beach Boys name

[Wirestone]

Le sigh.

Mike doesn't own the name. Or, rather, he co-owns it with Brian and Al and Carl's estate (Dennis's estate sold off his shares earlier). The four of them vote on who gets to use the name on tour, and for now, Mike is the one who can do so (and he does pay Brian and Al and Carl's survivors for the privilege).

While there may be some legal wrangling on how Brian, Dave and Al want to bill themselves, it would still take three votes of the BRI to change who uses the Beach Boys name. And given that Mike is still touring, it sure doesn't look like three votes are there.

[Smile4ever]

PSanta-by "the Wilson's" I meant Brian along with Carl's estate.

Also, if Carl's estate sided with Brian and Al, wouldn't it be game over? I'm shocked these three parties don't come together against Mike. But that has always been a problem with the Beach Boys: always focusing on minimal short-term financial gain instead of protecting their legacies (which over time actually produces more money anyway).

[HeyJude]

Le sigh.

Mike doesn't own the name. Or, rather, he co-owns it with Brian and Al and Carl's estate (Dennis's estate sold off his shares earlier). The four of them vote on who gets to use the name on tour, and for now, Mike is the one who can do so (and he does pay Brian and Al and Carl's survivors for the privilege).

While there may be some legal wrangling on how Brian, Dave and Al want to bill themselves, it would still take three votes of the BRI to change who uses the Beach Boys name. And given that Mike is still touring, it sure doesn't look like three votes are there.

One big question that we still don't know the answer to is whether any attempt has been made or will be made to take the license away. I'd guess not so far, and it has less to do with the money generated by Mike for Brian and Al (it's a nice hunk of change for doing nothing but owning a trademark, but it's not nearly as much as what Mike makes actually doing the touring, and far less than what Al for instance would make being on an actual BB tour) and more to do with the likely apathy Brian and Al would have towards years of additional legal wrangling that would likely ensue. These guys are headed towards 75 years old, they may just not have it in them.

At the most, Brian's grouping of three BB's (four including Blondie) may have been a passive aggressive warning that Brian for the first time has an interest in doing more than solo touring. More likely, any intimations or potential political moves have been discussed at board meetings and whatnot. Mike doesn't seem to be too concerned about the possibility of losing the license.

[HeyJude]

Thank You to Hey Jude for posting his thoughts..  I need a drink to calm my C50 blues now.  

Sorry about that.   It's very true, it is a sad thing. It has nothing to do with allegiances towards certain members or any of that. C50 was the most impressive thing (not just tour; but any project of any sort) any version of The Beach Boys have done since the 70's. Whomever of us is still alive in another 50 years and writing the history of the group will look back, after all these guys are gone, at how sad it was they couldn't keep it going for another few years or something.

[HeyJude]

Things must be so bitter in the Beach Boys camps right now

My sense is, despite the awkward ending to C50, it's not nearly as awkward as it was in, say, 2000 or so. Matt Jardine sat it with Mike's band earlier this year. Mike was comfortable releasing C50 product after his version of the band was back on the road. They are at least trying to stay relatively nice about each other in interviews.

Even ten years ago, Mike was bent out of shape about Brian doing "Smile", Bruce was poopy about Brian saying his band was better than the BB's, Al was gleefully telling stories about Dennis punching Mike out in the olden days, Mike was strenuously pretty much avoiding even saying Al's name in interviews, Brian wasn't saying much about the other guys.

It's not that bad now. C50, despite the gawdawful wrap-up, seemed to soften things at least a bit.

[HeyJude]

I'll never understand why the Wilsons and Al don't take Mike to court--or do whatever is necessary--to revoke his ability to use "The Beach Boys" as his band name. That's so damaging to the BB brand, and after the 50th Anniversary tour, this lame cover band gig should be up.

I think Mike's touring has been damaging to the "brand" (this has been debated on previous threads in the past; it's a highly subjective debate, but one side of it is that, even when Carl and Al were still in the band, they damaged (or diluted is a better word) the brand by excessive touring year after year; even Carl talked about this in interviews), but in that sense 2013 isn't any different than 2008 or 2004, etc. Mike's "Beach Boys Lite" touring band did get more scrutiny in light of the success of C50 and getting all five guys on the tour. But if they wanted Mike to not use the name, they would have probably made a move by now. The only person who seemed at all against it in the past was Al, and even his deal was more about being able to use the "Beach Boys Family & Friends" name and billing himself as a Beach Boy than wanting to take the BB name away from Mike.

[HeyJude]

PSanta-by "the Wilson's" I meant Brian along with Carl's estate.

Also, if Carl's estate sided with Brian and Al, wouldn't it be game over? I'm shocked these three parties don't come together against Mike. But that has always been a problem with the Beach Boys: always focusing on minimal short-term financial gain instead of protecting their legacies (which over time actually produces more money anyway).

I think Brian and Al's financial benefit from Mike's touring has been overstated for quite some time. As I said elsewhere, it's an nice hunk of money for doing nothing, but it's not life-changing money for those guys, especially when they would be making much more actually using the BB name themselves.

I think Brian and Al at this stage probably realize that it would be years of legal messes if they tried to take the name away. Carl's estate's position is completely unknown. They would make a similar amount of money either way. The only thing we don't know is if they would change their vote if Brian's camp heavily lobbied them. But I don't think Brian or his camp are *that* interested in taking Mike's license away.

I could see some passive attempts to imply they might take Mike's license away as a means to motivate Mike to get the reunion lineup back together, but that sort of maneuvering would have all sorts of pitfalls; a reunion-by-force isn't ideal. 

[Cam Mott]

I don't see where Brian has any interest in taking the license away from Mike, he seems quite happy touring as Brian Wilson with Al and Dave and whoever as "guests".  Does that dilute the brand?

[Nicko1234]

I would agree that if damage has been done to the brand by excessive touring then M&B going out now as The Beach Boys doesn't really change anything. The group's legacy is safe anyway...

As Mike and Bruce have dates booked for next summer already it doesn't look like things are going to change any time soon.

[Andrew G. Doe]

At the most, Brian's grouping of three BB's (four including Blondie) may have been a passive aggressive warning that Brian for the first time has an interest in doing more than solo touring. More likely, any intimations or potential political moves have been discussed at board meetings and whatnot. Mike doesn't seem to be too concerned about the possibility of losing the license.

Where this in any way the case, Alan & David would have every right to be mortally offended at being used as mere pawns in someone else's game. I cannot believe Brian's management would be that dumb or that calculating.

The status quo re: the touring license has existed since 1999. Brian & Alan seem happy enough with it and Carl's estate isn't going to jepoardise a nice little yearly income for doing precisely nothing. Also, consider this: we only know what has been made public. What's to say there hasn't been some behind the scenes negotiating that's resulted in the license to Mike being granted on a permanent basis ?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The brand being devalued ? Consider this schedule for August (fairs highlighted):

  1 - Civic Arena, Pittsburgh PA
  2 - Fair, Clearfield PA
  3 - Fort Wayne Coliseum, Fort Wayne IN
  4 - State Fair, Columbus OH
  6 - Great Woods, Mansfield MA
  7 - Cayuga County Fair Speedway, Weedsport NY
  8 - Monroe County Fair, Monroe MI
  9 - Jackson County Fair, Jackson MI
11 - Garden State Arts Center, Holmdel NJ
12 - Garden State Arts Center, Holmdel NJ
14 - Jones Beach, Wantagh NY
15 - Jones Beach, Wantagh NY
16 - JFK Stadium, Bridgeport CT
16 - Civic Center, Springfield MA
17 - Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia MD
19 - Broome County Arena, Binghamton NY
20 - Mann Music Center, Philadelphia PA
22 - Kentucky State Fair, Louisville KY
23 - Du Quoin Fair, Du Quoin IL
24 - Iowa State Fair, Des Moines IA
25 - State Fair, Minneapolis MN
26 - South Dakota State Fair, Huron SD
27 - Poplar Creek, Chicago IL
29 - Chastain Park, Atlanta GA
30 - Riverfront Stadium, Charleston WV
31 - Pennsylvania State Fair, Allentown PA

Mike & Bruce in recent years ? Nope - The Beach Boys, with Carl, in 1986.

[Dancing Bear]

In 50 years I doubt anyone will care if the Beach Boys played casinos in the 80s, if Brian toured Pet Sounds in '99 and if there was a reunion in 2012. The attention spam of the average music collector for the Beach Boys is basically from 62 to 77. 15 Big Ones!

And that's basically the norm. Who cares about Macca's career after 82, Rolling Stones after 81, David Bowie after 83? Only the die-hards.

[Andrew G. Doe]

In 50 years I doubt anyone will care ... if Brian toured Pet Sounds in '99.

Especially as he didn't. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

At the most, Brian's grouping of three BB's (four including Blondie) may have been a passive aggressive warning that Brian for the first time has an interest in doing more than solo touring. More likely, any intimations or potential political moves have been discussed at board meetings and whatnot. Mike doesn't seem to be too concerned about the possibility of losing the license.

Where this in any way the case, Alan & David would have every right to be mortally offended at being used as mere pawns in someone else's game. I cannot believe Brian's management would be that dumb or that calculating.

I agree that Brian's "recruitment" of Al and Dave and Blondie and whoever else took the stage was not PRIMARILY a "game" or a warning or a power move. Not, primarily, but I do think it WAS on the list of reasons. I believe that Melinda was driving that tour.

I think the two main reasons were, first, to sell tickets/drum up interest. Al or David or Blondie or even Jeff Beck ALONE wouldn't substantially increase ticket sales, well maybe Jeff Beck would, but THE PACKAGE presented had to have a positive affect on ticket sales.

Second, by handing over some vocals to Al or Blondie or an instrumental to Dave, it lessened the workload on Brian, even if it's just 5-6 songs. And, I'm not saying that was a bad thing. Brian's lead vocals on Beach Boys' fast songs are terrible.

Smile4ever, you asked why Brian and Al don't take action against Mike regarding the license. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. It is getting paid for doing nothing. If they could make more money by touring as The Beach Boys, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! They would have to be The Beach Boys. And, then they'd actually have to work. And, I don't mean exclusively physically. They can't make DECISIONS or agree on terms that would allow them to be The Beach Boys. That's work!

[Dancing Bear]

In 50 years I doubt anyone will care ... if Brian toured Pet Sounds in '99.

Especially as he didn't. 

I stand corrected. 

[Mr. Wilson]

Mike Love The Real Beach Boy..?  Is that a new book..?