Bruce on not showing Al, Brian and Dave in shows

[Smile4ever]

The brand being devalued ? Consider this schedule for August (fairs highlighted):

  1 - Civic Arena, Pittsburgh PA
  2 - Fair, Clearfield PA
  3 - Fort Wayne Coliseum, Fort Wayne IN
  4 - State Fair, Columbus OH
  6 - Great Woods, Mansfield MA
  7 - Cayuga County Fair Speedway, Weedsport NY
  8 - Monroe County Fair, Monroe MI
  9 - Jackson County Fair, Jackson MI
11 - Garden State Arts Center, Holmdel NJ
12 - Garden State Arts Center, Holmdel NJ
14 - Jones Beach, Wantagh NY
15 - Jones Beach, Wantagh NY
16 - JFK Stadium, Bridgeport CT
16 - Civic Center, Springfield MA
17 - Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia MD
19 - Broome County Arena, Binghamton NY
20 - Mann Music Center, Philadelphia PA
22 - Kentucky State Fair, Louisville KY
23 - Du Quoin Fair, Du Quoin IL
24 - Iowa State Fair, Des Moines IA
25 - State Fair, Minneapolis MN
26 - South Dakota State Fair, Huron SD
27 - Poplar Creek, Chicago IL
29 - Chastain Park, Atlanta GA
30 - Riverfront Stadium, Charleston WV
31 - Pennsylvania State Fair, Allentown PA

Mike & Bruce in recent years ? Nope - The Beach Boys, with Carl, in 1986.

I don't disagree with you. I think the Beach Boys brand has been severely mismanaged since the 80s (and parts of the 70s), and  generally mismanaged since the band's inception. Through better decisions and PR, the band could have had a lot better career and legacy. The list of botched moves throughout their career is too long to even be tackled on this board.

[SMiLE Brian]

But M&B's touring outfit after C50 is just really killing the brand.

[Sheriff John Stone]

But M&B's touring outfit after C50 is just really killing the brand.

1. A very large percentage of The Beach Boys' (Mike & Bruce) shows sell out.
2, A very large percentage of fans attending the shows leave happy, IMO.
3. A very large percentage of fans attending the shows don't know the individual members of the band - or really care, IMO.

I'm sure you and others have/use other indicators to show that M & B are "killing the brand". I don't agree.

[slickman9696]

True, killing the brand might be a little superfluous, only because I think it's us die hards arguing these points. The normal concert goer who knows the hits (and is probably 90% of the audience going to see M&B) seems to be happy and buying the tickets. Heck, if there was no demand, would they even still be touring as extensively?

[Andrew G. Doe]

But M&B's touring outfit after C50 is just really killing the brand.

If they're killing the brand, how come they're still touring as much as they are ? Supply and demand... supply and demand.

[Nicko1234]

But M&B's touring outfit after C50 is just really killing the brand.

Nah, the brand is doing just fine. I's sure that genuine music fans couldn't care less that a Beach Boys band is playing casinos and state fairs. And the people who know the hits are happy that they can go and sing along for a cheap price. Tickets for M&B's U.K. show in June have gone on sale for £20 for example which will doubtless attract those who would never have dreamed of going to watch the C50...

[KittyKat]

I think Carl's estate's position in this matter is pretty clear, or they wouldn't allow Carl's image to be used in the Mike & Bruce BB shows. It seems as though Dennis' family doesn't have a problem with his image being used, either, even if they have no financial stake in the "fight."  Anyone who would criticize Carl's widow for wanting a steady income has never had a family member widowed at a relatively young age. It can be tough. Anyone want to be the person to tell the former Mrs. Carl Wilson that she should just buck up and get herself a job, so we can stop this Mike touring nonsense?

[Tony S]

The last post made me think, anyone know what ever became of Gina Martin? We never hear about her, if she re married, her life today, etc....she sort of gets lost in the Family shuffle. Just curious, as for needing a steady stream of income, well she is after all the daughter of Dean Martin, probably doesn't really need it.

[J.G. Dev]

I think the estate of Carl Wilson is Jonah and Justyn. I can't possibly imagine Gina Martin is hurting for money.

[Andrew G. Doe]

But M&B's touring outfit after C50 is just really killing the brand.

Nah, the brand is doing just fine. I's sure that genuine music fans couldn't care less that a Beach Boys band is playing casinos and state fairs. And the people who know the hits are happy that they can go and sing along for a cheap price. Tickets for M&B's U.K. show in June have gone on sale for £20 for example which will doubtless attract those who would never have dreamed of going to watch the C50...

That would be the Derry show - the prices for Hampton Court are going to be about three times that, minimum. Granted the setting is amazing (Base Court, the old Tudor quadrangle) but you're still looking at £60 a throw. Can't recall what it was for Brian in 2005.

[BillA]

A little OT, but what were the circumstances of Dennis' estate selling its interest?  Any idea how much it was sold for?

My guess is that it turned out to be a bad deal for Dennis' heirs.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Dennis' estate reportedly 'sold' his share of BRI back to the company for a reduction in his outstanding debts.

[KittyKat]

It's not a given that Gina Martin was set for life after the passing of her father. It would depend on the set-up of that estate, who was left what, etc. If Jonah and Justyn were the sole heirs of Carl's estate (not sure if that's been made public or not), there's also no reason they don't have the right to do what they see fit with the assets of that estate. I do think they would not allow Carl's image to be used, singing a song at that, in Mike's shows if they didn't approve.  Maybe they like their cousin and appreciate his hard work and right to make a living for himself, which he has done over the long haul. It may be a matter of dealing with who they know well, for good and bad, versus having to deal with the Brian Wilson organization for a long-term reunion.

[Emdeeh]

Or Carl's estate might grant the same rights to Brian if he decided to use video of Carl in his solo shows.

[SMiLE Brian]

The "brand" needs its main songwriter and other original members to be most successful. The mainstream music industry and fans get excited when the BBs reunite and tour/ make new albums. This buzz translates into fans buying tickets, merchandise, albums past and present, and other items from the shows or the internet. Such activity gets promoters to book the BBs into high quality or prestige venues, keeping the cash flowing in the "brand". A Cash infusion like this will go into BRI, and therefore all parties are happy.

M&B touring small venues without B,A,D with little buzz to casual fans means that BBs name can only decrease in value since most serious music fans will view the group as Mike's nostalgia act and therefore not waste their time seeing them. Serious music fans are the "brand's" strength, not fans who only know a few songs or think Bruce is an original member.

[donald]

The brand being devalued ? Consider this schedule for August (fairs highlighted):

  1 - Civic Arena, Pittsburgh PA
  2 - Fair, Clearfield PA
  3 - Fort Wayne Coliseum, Fort Wayne IN
  4 - State Fair, Columbus OH
  6 - Great Woods, Mansfield MA
  7 - Cayuga County Fair Speedway, Weedsport NY
  8 - Monroe County Fair, Monroe MI
  9 - Jackson County Fair, Jackson MI
11 - Garden State Arts Center, Holmdel NJ
12 - Garden State Arts Center, Holmdel NJ
14 - Jones Beach, Wantagh NY
15 - Jones Beach, Wantagh NY
16 - JFK Stadium, Bridgeport CT
16 - Civic Center, Springfield MA
17 - Merriweather Post Pavilion, Columbia MD
19 - Broome County Arena, Binghamton NY
20 - Mann Music Center, Philadelphia PA
22 - Kentucky State Fair, Louisville KY
23 - Du Quoin Fair, Du Quoin IL
24 - Iowa State Fair, Des Moines IA
25 - State Fair, Minneapolis MN
26 - South Dakota State Fair, Huron SD
27 - Poplar Creek, Chicago IL
29 - Chastain Park, Atlanta GA
30 - Riverfront Stadium, Charleston WV
31 - Pennsylvania State Fair, Allentown PA

Mike & Bruce in recent years ? Nope - The Beach Boys, with Carl, in 1986.

Well said Andrew.  This is around the time I stopped going to every show within a four hour drive.  It pained me to see them cranking it out sometimes two shows a day.  How does a band with a soul connect with an audience when touring in such a grab every buck possible fashion.  It cheapened them in my view.  Last time I saw them in the 80's was an amphitheater show and it seemed that they we phoning it in when compared to their opening act.

As for all of the opinions about why BRI allows this to continue,   You made an interesting supposition in  that Mike may have been granted the name on a permanent basis.  That would seem to be a very large "what if" .

[Sheriff John Stone]

Serious music fans are the "brand's" strength, not fans who only know a few songs or think Bruce is an original member.

Didn't Brian and Al think that when they voted to give the license to Mike? Didn't they know that Mike (and Bruce) were going to be playing almost exclusively to those, in your words, "fans who only know a few songs or think Bruce is an original member". Or, didn't they care? "What brand?",  as Brian and Al turned a blind eye...

You and others continue to bring up this topic, and, like a sucker, I keep responding. But that's because I think and wish and hope and pray that a light will come on. Your intent is to hammer Mike Love with this issue. But, you continue to not realize - or ignore - that your beloved Brian and Al come off looking much worse than Mike with this issue.  Hey, Mike admits that he wants to keep touring for the fun of it and the money. He doesn't care who is sitting in the seats. He loves it. But, Brian Wilson and Al Jardine, the real musicians, the real artists, the ones with integrity, the ones who are concerned about the brand, well, they just sat/sit back and let this travesty continue. Who are the hypocrites here?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Small problem with your economic model there - BRI, and the voting members, are evidently perfectly happy with the position as it stands, viz Mike & Bruce touring and paying a goodly slice off the gross to BRI and the corporate members. If the license moved to Brian et al, the income would decrease markedly, for one inarguable reason: Brian would not play something like 100 dates, year after year. The most he's played solo since 1998 has been 70-odd, and the average has been closer to 35-40. My maths never advanced much beyond the "one bean and one bean equals two beans" level but even I can see where the better deal lies. And this may come as a shock to you, but Brian doesn't tour to SRO houses all the time (any more than the C50 did, fyi).

Also, as I've stated before, if the touring wasn't profitable, they wouldn't be out there year in, year out, nor go back to the same venues repeatedly: you book an act that doesn't draw, it doesn't get booked again.

[Dancing Bear]

M&B touring small venues without B,A,D with little buzz to casual fans means that BBs name can only decrease in value since most serious music fans will view the group as Mike's nostalgia act and therefore not waste their time seeing them. Serious music fans are the "brand's" strength, not fans who only know a few songs or think Bruce is an original member.

You really don't think that M&B gigs in 2013 or 2014 will hurt the band's legacy in teh long run, do you?

[SMiLE Brian]

Us fans don't know the full behind the scenes legal action that could be going on between the BBs parties. For all we know, BAD could be taking preliminary action against M&B for the right to remove or change the terms of the use of the BBs name. Much has changed since 1998 when BRI voted the name to Mike since the BBs seemed forever done as a major group with Carl's death. Well there is new life in band after all and Brian wants to be a BB again for the first time in decades. This might seem as a threat to Mike's ego since he got used to being the center of attention " original beach boy" with hired hands backing him.

The page on wikipedia for the C50 lists 73 shows for the tour, which is a solid number of dates. Plus the sample of eleven shows with sources has the amount of money made being about 5,000,000 dollars. Do the math for the 73 dates and that is a lot of money flowing into BRI. Even after expenses, it is oblivious that the M&B makes chump change compared to the real BBs touring. So in short, the whole talk of M&B being a huge moneymaker is untrue with the facts of the C50 backing it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Boys_50th_Anniversary_Reunion_Tour

[Wirestone]

M&B touring small venues without B,A,D with little buzz to casual fans means that BBs name can only decrease in value since most serious music fans will view the group as Mike's nostalgia act and therefore not waste their time seeing them. Serious music fans are the "brand's" strength, not fans who only know a few songs or think Bruce is an original member.

You really don't think that M&B gigs in 2013 or 2014 will hurt the band's legacy in teh long run, do you?

Which is why everyone is out there enjoying the latest tour from the Beatles, fronted by Ringo Starr and featuring five anonymous backing musicians.

[clack]

I'm as dismayed as the next guy to see America's greatest band, down to just one original member, reduced to playing county fairs.

But, the thing is, is that the M+B show is relatively quite successful. Former stadium acts like 'Foreigner' or 'REO Speedwagon' can no longer get reliably booked even on the county fair circuit -- they have been playing churches, changing the lyrics to their hits to conform to Christian themes.

Yeah, I'm sure we'd all like to see Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce together again, playing stadiums alongside the Stones, McCartney and Springsteen. But that's not happening, and so the M+B version of the Beach Boys having success on the county fair/casino circuit is nothing to sneer at.

[Sheriff John Stone]

M&B touring small venues without B,A,D with little buzz to casual fans means that BBs name can only decrease in value since most serious music fans will view the group as Mike's nostalgia act and therefore not waste their time seeing them. Serious music fans are the "brand's" strength, not fans who only know a few songs or think Bruce is an original member.

You really don't think that M&B gigs in 2013 or 2014 will hurt the band's legacy in teh long run, do you?

Which is why everyone is out there enjoying the latest tour from the Beatles, fronted by Ringo Starr and featuring five anonymous backing musicians.

No, Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr would never approve something like that, the way Brian Wilson and Al Jardine DID with The Beach Boys.

[KittyKat]

I'm not sure whether to believe Wikipedia or not (it's crowd sourced), but even if the figures are true, does anyone truly believe that Mike would willingly back out of a longer reunion if there were more money in it than doing what he does now? You can't say Mike is greedy (which most people think, and even Mike wouldn't deny he likes making good money), then say he turned down making more money if he would have stuck with the reunion. If they cite ten dates specifically where they made 5 million a date, it could be they're cherry picking certain shows. I have a hard time believing they made 5 million a gig for playing the small Beacon Theatre in NYC, for example.

[donald]

Sherriff, you know that this sort of thing couldn't happen with the Beatles.    Even if the survivors and heirs WANTED it to.
The anonymity of the individual members of thebBeachboys allows this to be possible .  Not so with Beatles