Why didn't Brian fire Mike?

[bringahorseinhere?]

ummm... and also, who would have had the stamina, persona to front the band with corny banter and talk, and lead the band ontstage??

Brian??? I don't think so...... Carl???  Musically yes, but No, Al??..... not likely..... and Bruce?....... ummmm ...'let's go on down to Kokomo..whaaauwww!!'

From 62 onwards, Mikey was the only one who has been 'ON' the most out of all the members

Lucky we had Mikey and his pin cushion/uncomfortable seat yabba..


Rb

What about Dennis?

Once again: are you serious???

Who would have played drums? And, there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest Dennis was not the most natural of frontmen. He was nervous, fidgity and slouched. Sure, he could have grown into it, but there was no time for this when they were staring out.

He could have played drums at the same time, and he didn't seem too bad as a frontman. There would have been a little bit of time to fully grow into it, we can never underestimate Dennis  

Yes again: are you freaking serious???

The Beach Boys in 1962 with no Mike and Dennis singing from behind the drums? Laughable. We can't underestimate Dennis because he's gone (but by 1983 is was tougher to overestimate him) ..... But what do I know? Other than the fact that The Beach Boys became one of the most legendary bands WITH Mike in the band and as frontman!!!!

You guys should probably really just go stay on the bloo board and put Beautiful Dreamer on in a loop.,

You guys should probably really just go stay on the bloo board and put Beautiful Dreamer on in a loop.,


this is the line of the day quote! love it!    nothing like a bubble world eh?

Rb

[Jason]

Brian didn't fire Michael for one very simple reason - he was a founding member and was vital to the band's sound and live image. Brian is Michael's biggest fan, and vice versa. The two of them have a bond that none of us will ever understand. Blood runs thicker than water. I know that's tough for a certain radical pro-Brian faction on here to take but it's the truth.

[bringahorseinhere?]

just to add fuel to the fire muhahaha 


its 1965..... Brian's working with 'other's'... and not Mikey..... writing, producing, arranging etc

'the boys' go to Japan etc etc and come back as a band on fire......

The guys could have said, 'Brian, we could? do this without you..... there's me Mike, Carl, Al, Denny and we can get Dave back in or Brucie......or both

pick up the game and get on the tour bus with us, or your Out!!


How would that have panned out?........ a lost one or two hit wonder band from the early 60's?

Rb

[Jason]

For the record, the post immediately preceding this did not need its own thread. Stop spamming the board with ridiculous topics that could easily be part of an existing topic.

[bringahorseinhere?]

Ok..... delete it then.... no worries..

[Jason]

Ok..... delete it then.... no worries..

Nothing to delete. I merged the threads.

[bringahorseinhere?]

Thanks RBB...

It's just another angle the BB's could have considered..........

but of course BW had something to offer all along, but it could have been another path 'the guys' could have considered.....

also to think, this was pre Pet Sounds and Smile....... and the Brian is a 'genius' persona.....

Rb

[Phoenix]

Also, there has been plenty of drummers as frontman...

From behind the drums?  Until 1966 there were only three drumming "frontmen" (and only one in rock and roll) and one lead singing drummer.  In 1961/62, neither existed in rock and roll.

[clack]

These early 60's  groups assumed that they would last only 2 or 3 years before they fell out of fashion. Lennon and McCartney, Jagger and Richards were peddling their songs to other artists, preparing for careers as behind-the-scenes songwriters.

Brian, very early on, was writing and producing for other acts. The Beach Boys were for him a stepping stone -- I think he saw them  almost as the Teddy Bears to his Phil Spector. That didn't change until he heard 'Rubber Soul' , I believe, thus giving rise to 'Pet Sounds' and 'Smile". After 'Smile' Brian again pursued (half-heartedly at this point) a career outside the confines of the Beach Boys. He was no longer wholly committed to the band.

So, why didn't Brian fire Mike? Because Mike (like Carl) was more of a Beach Boy than Brian ever was.

[Kurosawa]

ummm... and also, who would have had the stamina, persona to front the band with corny banter and talk, and lead the band ontstage??

Brian??? I don't think so...... Carl???  Musically yes, but No, Al??..... not likely..... and Bruce?....... ummmm ...'let's go on down to Kokomo..whaaauwww!!'

From 62 onwards, Mikey was the only one who has been 'ON' the most out of all the members

Lucky we had Mikey and his pin cushion/uncomfortable seat yabba..


Rb

What about Dennis?

Once again: are you serious???

Who would have played drums? And, there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest Dennis was not the most natural of frontmen. He was nervous, fidgity and slouched. Sure, he could have grown into it, but there was no time for this when they were staring out.

He could have played drums at the same time, and he didn't seem too bad as a frontman. There would have been a little bit of time to fully grow into it, we can never underestimate Dennis 

Yes again: are you freaking serious???

The Beach Boys in 1962 with no Mike and Dennis singing from behind the drums? Laughable. We can't underestimate Dennis because he's gone (but by 1983 is was tougher to overestimate him) ..... But what do I know? Other than the fact that The Beach Boys became one of the most legendary bands WITH Mike in the band and as frontman!!!!

You guys should probably really just go stay on the bloo board and put Beautiful Dreamer on in a loop.,

I said Al, Carl and Dennis can share the Mike leads, so it's not just Dennis. Also, there has been plenty of drummers as frontman...

The actual mistake was sticking Dennis behind the drums in the first place. They took the only guy they had with sex appeal, and they stuck him behind the drums. Denny should have played a different instrument or just sang, and they should have found a drummer.

They had to have Mike, though. And firing Mike was never an option. If Brian had been a stronger leader, he would have made Mike toe the line when the SMiLE album was being recorded. Mike voiced objections because Brian was a weak leader. If Brian had been a stronger leader, Mike would have done as told. Brian wasn't a strong enough leader, so Mike voiced complaints. Not that Mike's complaints mattered, of course-again the album was never finished because Brian was a weak leader. He got to a point where he couldn't finish things, and he half-assed things a lot. But that's not really his fault, it's just the way his problems affected him.

Brian's greatness is the main reason the Beach Boys are thought of as well as they are. I don't think many people will question that. But his problems are the main reason they declined and are the main reason they are held in slightly lower esteem by most critics to the Beatles, Stones and Who. I disagree with that opinion, but that is the general opinion held by the public-and of course the dbag who runs Rolling Stone magazine didn't help anything.

[zachrwolfe]

‍

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

ummm... and also, who would have had the stamina, persona to front the band with corny banter and talk, and lead the band ontstage??

Brian??? I don't think so...... Carl???  Musically yes, but No, Al??..... not likely..... and Bruce?....... ummmm ...'let's go on down to Kokomo..whaaauwww!!'

From 62 onwards, Mikey was the only one who has been 'ON' the most out of all the members

Lucky we had Mikey and his pin cushion/uncomfortable seat yabba..


Rb

What about Dennis?

Once again: are you serious???

Who would have played drums? And, there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest Dennis was not the most natural of frontmen. He was nervous, fidgity and slouched. Sure, he could have grown into it, but there was no time for this when they were staring out.

He could have played drums at the same time, and he didn't seem too bad as a frontman. There would have been a little bit of time to fully grow into it, we can never underestimate Dennis 

Yes again: are you freaking serious???

The Beach Boys in 1962 with no Mike and Dennis singing from behind the drums? Laughable. We can't underestimate Dennis because he's gone (but by 1983 is was tougher to overestimate him) ..... But what do I know? Other than the fact that The Beach Boys became one of the most legendary bands WITH Mike in the band and as frontman!!!!

You guys should probably really just go stay on the bloo board and put Beautiful Dreamer on in a loop.,

I said Al, Carl and Dennis can share the Mike leads, so it's not just Dennis. Also, there has been plenty of drummers as frontman...

The actual mistake was sticking Dennis behind the drums in the first place. They took the only guy they had with sex appeal, and they stuck him behind the drums. Denny should have played a different instrument or just sang, and they should have found a drummer.

They had to have Mike, though. And firing Mike was never an option. If Brian had been a stronger leader, he would have made Mike toe the line when the SMiLE album was being recorded. Mike voiced objections because Brian was a weak leader. If Brian had been a stronger leader, Mike would have done as told. Brian wasn't a strong enough leader, so Mike voiced complaints. Not that Mike's complaints mattered, of course-again the album was never finished because Brian was a weak leader. He got to a point where he couldn't finish things, and he half-assed things a lot. But that's not really his fault, it's just the way his problems affected him.

Brian's greatness is the main reason the Beach Boys are thought of as well as they are. I don't think many people will question that. But his problems are the main reason they declined and are the main reason they are held in slightly lower esteem by most critics to the Beatles, Stones and Who. I disagree with that opinion, but that is the general opinion held by the public-and of course the dbag who runs Rolling Stone magazine didn't help anything.

But Mike did do what he was told, so what's the point? Oh, and they still managed to become a legendary band with Mike in his place, so history is history while speculation is merely that.

[bluesno1fann]

ummm... and also, who would have had the stamina, persona to front the band with corny banter and talk, and lead the band ontstage??

Brian??? I don't think so...... Carl???  Musically yes, but No, Al??..... not likely..... and Bruce?....... ummmm ...'let's go on down to Kokomo..whaaauwww!!'

From 62 onwards, Mikey was the only one who has been 'ON' the most out of all the members

Lucky we had Mikey and his pin cushion/uncomfortable seat yabba..


Rb

What about Dennis?

Once again: are you serious???

Who would have played drums? And, there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest Dennis was not the most natural of frontmen. He was nervous, fidgity and slouched. Sure, he could have grown into it, but there was no time for this when they were staring out.

He could have played drums at the same time, and he didn't seem too bad as a frontman. There would have been a little bit of time to fully grow into it, we can never underestimate Dennis  

Yes again: are you freaking serious???

The Beach Boys in 1962 with no Mike and Dennis singing from behind the drums? Laughable. We can't underestimate Dennis because he's gone (but by 1983 is was tougher to overestimate him) ..... But what do I know? Other than the fact that The Beach Boys became one of the most legendary bands WITH Mike in the band and as frontman!!!!

You guys should probably really just go stay on the bloo board and put Beautiful Dreamer on in a loop.,

I said Al, Carl and Dennis can share the Mike leads, so it's not just Dennis. Also, there has been plenty of drummers as frontman...

The actual mistake was sticking Dennis behind the drums in the first place. They took the only guy they had with sex appeal, and they stuck him behind the drums. Denny should have played a different instrument or just sang, and they should have found a drummer.

They had to have Mike, though. And firing Mike was never an option. If Brian had been a stronger leader, he would have made Mike toe the line when the SMiLE album was being recorded. Mike voiced objections because Brian was a weak leader. If Brian had been a stronger leader, Mike would have done as told. Brian wasn't a strong enough leader, so Mike voiced complaints. Not that Mike's complaints mattered, of course-again the album was never finished because Brian was a weak leader. He got to a point where he couldn't finish things, and he half-assed things a lot. But that's not really his fault, it's just the way his problems affected him.

Brian's greatness is the main reason the Beach Boys are thought of as well as they are. I don't think many people will question that. But his problems are the main reason they declined and are the main reason they are held in slightly lower esteem by most critics to the Beatles, Stones and Who. I disagree with that opinion, but that is the general opinion held by the public-and of course the dbag who runs Rolling Stone magazine didn't help anything.

At least RS Magazine put Pet Sounds as 2nd greatest album of all-time, and put the Beach Boys in the Top 15 greatest artists of all-time and is actually above Led Zeppelin!

[Alan Smith]

If what I read on this board is true, and Mike Love is Evil Incarnate, a money grubbing bastard that never cared about the music, why didn't Brian fire him back in 1966?

Well, Mike was a debonair lady's man, lookin' for a good time - Brian would put up with a bit of day to day scuttle-butt over a lyric or two in exchange for the chance to go wingman for the Love-machine

[Lonely Summer]

So if John Lennon had had a meltdown circa 1966 (well, okay, some might say he did with that "more popular than Jesus" comment...), would the Beatles have stumbled through the rest of the 60's as the lovable moptops, trying desperately to get another hit, and wondering if John will ever get out of bed? Well, okay, it's possible that Paul McCartney really did die in car crash...but his replacement seems to have filled the role very well...Sgt. Pepper was his idea...the medley on Abbey Road was his idea.....

[Nicko1234]

The actual mistake was sticking Dennis behind the drums in the first place. They took the only guy they had with sex appeal, and they stuck him behind the drums. Denny should have played a different instrument or just sang, and they should have found a drummer.

I think that was the perfect role for him at that time. His being the drummer probably added to his cool image and certainly didn't harm the band's appeal in those early years.

[Micha]

Brian didn't fire Michael for one very simple reason - he was a founding member and was vital to the band's sound and live image. Brian is Michael's biggest fan, and vice versa. The two of them have a bond that none of us will ever understand. Blood runs thicker than water. I know that's tough for a certain radical pro-Brian faction on here to take but it's the truth.

It's not so much a radical pro-Brian faction as a radical anti-Mike faction which makes them pro-Brian by default only. I can't grasp why they need a despicable villain. I'd rather have a hypothetical next BBs album composed by Brian than by Mike, but preferrably with input from Mike.

[Niko]

The actual mistake was sticking Dennis behind the drums in the first place. They took the only guy they had with sex appeal, and they stuck him behind the drums. Denny should have played a different instrument or just sang, and they should have found a drummer.

I think that was the perfect role for him at that time. His being the drummer probably added to his cool image and certainly didn't harm the band's appeal in those early years.

Dennis received 10x more fan mail than any of the other members. Drummers are cool 

[Micha]

The actual mistake was sticking Dennis behind the drums in the first place. They took the only guy they had with sex appeal, and they stuck him behind the drums. Denny should have played a different instrument or just sang, and they should have found a drummer.

I think that was the perfect role for him at that time. His being the drummer probably added to his cool image and certainly didn't harm the band's appeal in those early years.

Dennis received 10x more fan mail than any of the other members. Drummers are cool 

Yeah, but drum machines keep the beat, don't eat your fridge empty and don't bang your girlfriend! (Old joke)

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian didn't fire Michael for one very simple reason - he was a founding member and was vital to the band's sound and live image. Brian is Michael's biggest fan, and vice versa. The two of them have a bond that none of us will ever understand. Blood runs thicker than water. I know that's tough for a certain radical pro-Brian faction on here to take but it's the truth.

There's an even simpler reason, and it's the same one which explains why Mike didn't fire anyone post-C50: he couldn't, without the support of his brothers. The band were formally incorporated on 3rd April 1964 as Beach Boys Entertainment Enterprises Inc., with Brian, Carl, Dennis & Mike as directors. As much as he may have wanted to (which was almost certainly - not), "you're out of the band, buckwheat !" was never a solo option.

[Cam Mott]

a lost one or two hit wonder band from the early 60's?

Rb

It's hard to say whether or not the other members would have been able to develop their songwriting skills quickly enough to continue being successful without Brian. I would say that's doubtful and they probably would have become a lost one hit wonder. I wonder if Brian could have made it on his own, writing the songs with outside parties, producing the tracks, and singing all the parts. That's also doubtful, though (obviously he was capable of it, I mean making it, commercially). So it would have been a lose/lose situation.

As clack said Brian did try producing with other people and groups and none of it went anywhere. To me it confirms that as important as Brian was the magic took that particular group and without their "genius" Brian would have been pumping gas at the station across the street from where Mike and Al and Carl and Dennis were pumping gas.

[Cam Mott]

It's not so much a radical pro-Brian faction as a radical anti-Mike faction which makes them pro-Brian by default only.

Hhhmmm, interesting.

[leggo of my ego]

For the same reason that he couldnt kick Murry's miserable ass completely out of the bands business.

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

a lost one or two hit wonder band from the early 60's?

Rb

It's hard to say whether or not the other members would have been able to develop their songwriting skills quickly enough to continue being successful without Brian. I would say that's doubtful and they probably would have become a lost one hit wonder. I wonder if Brian could have made it on his own, writing the songs with outside parties, producing the tracks, and singing all the parts. That's also doubtful, though (obviously he was capable of it, I mean making it, commercially). So it would have been a lose/lose situation.

As clack said Brian did try producing with other people and groups and none of it went anywhere. To me it confirms that as important as Brian was the magic took that particular group and without their "genius" Brian would have been pumping gas at the station across the street from where Mike and Al and Carl and Dennis were pumping gas.

Pretty much agree – except for the part about Al pumping gas along with the rest of the Boys.  I suspect "Dr. Al" mostly likely would have been pulling teeth.

[Cam Mott]

a lost one or two hit wonder band from the early 60's?

Rb

It's hard to say whether or not the other members would have been able to develop their songwriting skills quickly enough to continue being successful without Brian. I would say that's doubtful and they probably would have become a lost one hit wonder. I wonder if Brian could have made it on his own, writing the songs with outside parties, producing the tracks, and singing all the parts. That's also doubtful, though (obviously he was capable of it, I mean making it, commercially). So it would have been a lose/lose situation.

As clack said Brian did try producing with other people and groups and none of it went anywhere. To me it confirms that as important as Brian was the magic took that particular group and without their "genius" Brian would have been pumping gas at the station across the street from where Mike and Al and Carl and Dennis were pumping gas.

Pretty much agree – except for the part about Al pumping gas along with the rest of the Boys.  I suspect "Dr. Al" mostly likely would have been pulling teeth.

Good point.