New Mike interview in HuffPost

[Andrew G. Doe]

Would this be the same Steve Love?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/25012/EX-BEACH-BOYS-MANAGER-SENTENCED-IN-THEFT.html

Pretty sure I read somewhere that said conviction was overturned on appeal.

[Dancing Bear]

When you're a Beach Boys fan you eventually choose which assholes you'll like or dislike. Some are smarter and like them all.

[KittyKat]

Would this be the same Steve Love?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/25012/EX-BEACH-BOYS-MANAGER-SENTENCED-IN-THEFT.html

Pretty sure I read somewhere that said conviction was overturned on appeal.

Steve's behavior may not have been criminal, but it was unethical. He still defends his behavior in buying the Beach Boys a beachfront property in Hawaii, then using it as his own home. It may not have been illegal, but it's not kosher to do that, especially since all the boys didn't agree to that. They sold the property to get him out of it. He now says the property appreciated in value many times over, but when were they supposed to have realized the profit and sold it? Only when Steve himself decided to move out of it, after many decades? 

[Pretty Funky]

The more I read about the Loves and at times, the Wilsons the more I'm glad to be a working Joe in the burbs.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Just pure speculation here -- but maybe if Carl had still been alive in 2007 the Beach Boys as a whole might have been honored.

Interesting possibility. Showing my true bias here, but I'm glad the band did not receive the award. I'm glad that the spotlight was on Brian - because he deserved it and perversely the band deserved it. Any opportunity to honor the true architect of the sound is fine by me.

Throwing open the gate to the 'whole gang' would've invited inevitable Mike Love rooster-struttin' about how his lyrics are all about spirituality and positivity and mom's apple pie. That would've diluted the effect of alerting America to the talents of the true architect. And that's the way it should be, Kokomaoists be damned.

Bullshite! Rock n rock (and this seems to be the dirty little secret no one wants to face) is 50% composition and 50% performance! You shouldn't be honoring just the composing portion of a band/act whole ignoring the performance part of the person/act. Especiallty when, in the Beach Boys situation: the performance and compositon halves of the whole had so much overlap.... Things like Kennedy Center Honors are worse trifles than the pathetic Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame. I'd be embarassed if I were Brian.....

Kokomoaists be damned and apparently reality too!!

[Lonely Summer]

Just pure speculation here -- but maybe if Carl had still been alive in 2007 the Beach Boys as a whole might have been honored.

Interesting possibility. Showing my true bias here, but I'm glad the band did not receive the award. I'm glad that the spotlight was on Brian - because he deserved it and perversely the band deserved it. Any opportunity to honor the true architect of the sound is fine by me.

Throwing open the gate to the 'whole gang' would've invited inevitable Mike Love rooster-struttin' about how his lyrics are all about spirituality and positivity and mom's apple pie. That would've diluted the effect of alerting America to the talents of the true architect. And that's the way it should be, Kokomaoists be damned.

Bullshite! Rock n rock (and this seems to be the dirty little secret no one wants to face) is 50% composition and 50% performance! You shouldn't be honoring just the composing portion of a band/act whole ignoring the performance part of the person/act. Especiallty when, in the Beach Boys situation: the performance and compositon halves of the whole had so much overlap.... Things like Kennedy Center Honors are worse trifles than the pathetic Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame. I'd be embarassed if I were Brian.....

Kokomoaists be damned and apparently reality too!!

bravo!

[Jonathan Blum]

Bullshite! Rock n rock (and this seems to be the dirty little secret no one wants to face) is 50% composition and 50% performance!

So much not.  I can't even count the number of bands I enjoy who I've never even seen live, from the Beatles on down.

I'd been listening to and enjoying the Beach Boys for about a quarter of a century before I even saw Brian in concert, much less the band itself.  For years growing up my main visual image of the band was the beardy weirdies on the cover of "Endless Summer".  But the radio was always on.

The dirty little not-so-secret is that the Beach Boys were famous, and still are, because they made one and a half metric sh*t-tons of brilliant records.

And one man was responsible for producing, arranging, and writing most of the music for pretty much all of the ones that made their name.


The performances help, but it's the music which is omnipresent.  Oh, and thanks to Brian's policy of showing up for the big TV appearances and promo films?  He was part of the performances and promotional stuff which made their name in front of millions.  So you can't take that away from him either.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Bullshite! Rock n rock (and this seems to be the dirty little secret no one wants to face) is 50% composition and 50% performance!

So much not.  I can't even count the number of bands I enjoy who I've never even seen live, from the Beatles on down.

I'd been listening to and enjoying the Beach Boys for about a quarter of a century before I even saw Brian in concert, much less the band itself.  For years growing up my main visual image of the band was the beardy weirdies on the cover of "Endless Summer".  But the radio was always on.

The dirty little not-so-secret is that the Beach Boys were famous, and still are, because they made one and a half metric sh*t-tons of brilliant records.

And one man was responsible for producing, arranging, and writing most of the music for pretty much all of the ones that made their name.


The performances help, but it's the music which is omnipresent.  Oh, and thanks to Brian's policy of showing up for the big TV appearances and promo films?  He was part of the performances and promotional stuff which made their name in front of millions.  So you can't take that away from him either.

Regards,
Jon Blum

First off, I should clarify that by "performance" I meant the performaces on the records, not live.

One man was responsible for writing and producing most but not all of the music being honored and he had a whole lot of help, therefore just honoring him is an insult! The music is omnipresent because of the records!!!! Products pressed onto vinyl or CDs or audio files of people singing and playing insturments: and one man did not do it all in the case of The Beach Boys..... Next time I play Holland for the zillionth time I'll try and convince myself Brian did it all, but it's likely won't work.

And we listen to RECDORDS which are made up of the efforts of a lot of peoplle aside from the writer/producer.  The records ARE the music, it's not the other way around! Tell me the next time you go to a music shop and buy a bunch of sheet music to take home and look at! I still call bullshite!

When Brian and the rest of the boys and all of us are long dead, those records/recordings will still be omnipresent, so yeah.... bullshite! And yeah, Brian showed uo for promo films, but the Beach Boys as a hard working touring act kept the music alive and something to be experienced, not to mention the money rolling in, and you can't take that away from them!!!!

[Lonely Summer]

Pinder keeps coming up with the winners.

[KittyKat]

Brian stopped showing up for TV appearances after 1966.  Most people didn't even know Brian existed if they tuned into Ed Sullivan or Mike Douglas in the late '60s or afterwards. Even when the Boys were lip-syncing to "Good Vibrations" on some of those late '60s shows and Brian's voice was on the recording, Carl was miming along to it and Brian was nowhere to be seen. Of course, Brian was not at the concerts, as early as 1963. Brian abandoned personal appearances with the group, so it cuts both ways. He did most of the music, but if he required other people to perform it live and promote it, he was at their mercy whether fans want to admit it or not. Does anyone remember the people behind Milli Vanilli, or do people just remember Milli and Vanilli? I'm not equating the Beach Boys with something like that, but it's not far from it.

[Jonathan Blum]

Gosh I was grouchy yesterday.  Sorry 'bout that.  Never mind.

First off, I should clarify that by "performance" I meant the performaces on the records, not live.

One man was responsible for writing and producing most but not all of the music being honored and he had a whole lot of help, therefore just honoring him is an insult!

The fact that Phil Spector had a whole bunch of people working for him doesn't make it an insult to honor Phil Spector.

BTW, I assume this means that you're campaigning for the Wrecking Crew to get these honors just as much as Mike Love?  >:-)

The music is omnipresent because of the records!!!! Products pressed onto vinyl or CDs or audio files of people singing and playing insturments: and one man did not do it all in the case of The Beach Boys...

Course they didn't.  But that man who got that particular honor did lots more of the work than the guy you're complaining didn't.  That's why he crossed the threshold to get the honor and the other guy didn't.

Seriously -- when it comes to the stuff the Kennedy Center was honoring him for, Brian did more of the work, across more different areas, and in particular more of the innovative work.  Listen to something like "I Get Around", he's a distinctly audible part of the performance (about half the lead, even), he's the arranger, he's the producer, he even wrote some of the lyrics.  And you claim that's not enough to put him out in front of his collaborators, for that particular award?

Thinking that Mike deserves appropriate credit for the great work he did doesn't mean I believe that was equal work.  No false equivalence.

When Brian and the rest of the boys and all of us are long dead, those records/recordings will still be omnipresent, so yeah.... bullshite! And yeah, Brian showed uo for promo films, but the Beach Boys as a hard working touring act kept the music alive and something to be experienced, not to mention the money rolling in, and you can't take that away from them!!!!

I'm not.  I'm putting the touring in perspective next to the records.  Cause any one produced-by-Brian-Wilson disc got Mike Love's voice out there more times to even more people than all the concerts Mike played.

Brian stopped showing up for TV appearances after 1966.

He was still doing the high-profile appearances at least till Hawaii in '67, but that's beside the point really -- the point is that the performances which made the Beach Boys such a huge band, Brian was part of.  Neither he nor Mike scored their Kennedy Center / Rock and Roll Hall of Fame kudos off of the performance of "Friends"...

[Cam Mott]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm at the same point I was after reading someone's suggestion on this board that the GV box set in 1993 didn't have enough Al Jardine tracks on it, and could have been weighted too heavily toward Brian Wilson.

Same comment I made at that time: Are we seriously at that point in 2013 where that's even being considered?

f***. 

[SMiLE Brian]

The 1980s Beach Boys show how lame the band was without Brian's input and direction.

[Shady]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

Not sure how it's possible for Brian to get more credit than he deserves

[Cam Mott]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

Not sure how it's possible for Brian to get more credit than he deserves

Easily. By getting more credit then he deserved by getting credit for things he didn't do or all of the credit for things with contributions by others. And then the reverse regarding the Boys.

[guitarfool2002]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

Not sure how it's possible for Brian to get more credit than he deserves

Easily. By getting more credit then he deserved by getting credit for things he didn't do or all of the credit for things with contributions by others. And then the reverse regarding the Boys.

It does go both ways, in some ways, sure. But consider especially in the 70's how the band all but propped Brian up as a bargaining chip when they were going around to labels trying to score a deal. Not to mention the way in at least one case with a label, if not more, their negotiations for a deal hinted at the "Smile" tapes being part of the bargain, even in the 70's before anyone had heard the bootlegs and it was just a word-of-mouth legend.

So there was, I'd suggest, a tacit admission from "the band" as an entity even as the band may have been chugging along without him that Brian and even his name on the credits short of actual 100% participation in the project would offer them more bargaining power with the labels. And possibly more clout than if they had simply left him and his name off the whole scene, even if he had minimal involvement in the actual grunt work at various times in the 70's.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

All good points guys, but once again, it should be pointed out that no one is advocating we give Mike Love or any Beach Boy more credit or importance than Brian. His legend and place in history is rock solid but some seem to feel that by being a bit more fair and balanced with kudos, in his own band, by golly, will somehow knock Brian's legend out of place... I think not. I mean would anyone really be pissed off if Kennedy Center Honors had said something like "Brian, along with his fellow Beach Boys, blah blah" and said their names amd showed their pictures? Would have rankled you?

Bottom-line: even though Brian did much/most of the work (for a time) he was still part of a band. So what? It was an amazing band.

[Cam Mott]

It does go both ways, in some ways, sure. But consider especially in the 70's how the band all but propped Brian up as a bargaining chip when they were going around to labels trying to score a deal. Not to mention the way in at least one case with a label, if not more, their negotiations for a deal hinted at the "Smile" tapes being part of the bargain, even in the 70's before anyone had heard the bootlegs and it was just a word-of-mouth legend.

So there was, I'd suggest, a tacit admission from "the band" as an entity even as the band may have been chugging along without him that Brian and even his name on the credits short of actual 100% participation in the project would offer them more bargaining power with the labels. And possibly more clout than if they had simply left him and his name off the whole scene, even if he had minimal involvement in the actual grunt work at various times in the 70's.

But is that the band's "people" doing that or is it demands/expectations/assumptions from the labels? Or possible both?

[Lonely Summer]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

Yeah, Brian Wilson's puppets. It's not like Brian was a multi-instrumentalist playing all the parts, and the Boys just came in to do the vocals. At some point in the past it was said that sometimes Brian was dissatisfied with the Boys vocals, erased them, and did them all by himself, but I'm sure that story has been discredited by now.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

Yeah, Brian Wilson's puppets. It's not like Brian was a multi-instrumentalist playing all the parts, and the Boys just came in to do the vocals. At some point in the past it was said that sometimes Brian was dissatisfied with the Boys vocals, erased them, and did them all by himself, but I'm sure that story has been discredited by now.

If that happened it would be very easy to spot songs that were Brian layered all by himself. Isn't it only him on I Just Wasn't Made For These Times?

I've also read accounts where Mike hated Till I Die so much that Brian had to crawl off and do it all himself, but then there's the album track with The Beach Boys and Brian singing clear as day for all to hear.

[DonnyL]

Maybe not 'puppets' per se, but it's hard to deny that for some of the group's best work, Brian essentially used the Beach Boys' voices as instruments (and in some cases, only his own), just as he did with the musicians he worked with.

That said, whoever said there were 5 geniuses in the Beach Boys, I think I agree with them. I mean, in their own way. Carl and Al were legit vocalists, and later, great & unique producers. I think Mike has proven he's an excellent songwriter and frontman. Dennis was a straight-up musical genius.

But only Brian was able to bring it together for the real magic. Let's not forget that.

[guitarfool2002]

Maybe not 'puppets' per se, but it's hard to deny that for some of the group's best work, Brian essentially used the Beach Boys' voices as instruments (and in some cases, only his own), just as he did with the musicians he worked with.

That said, whoever said there were 5 geniuses in the Beach Boys, I think I agree with them. I mean, in their own way. Carl and Al were legit vocalists, and later, great & unique producers. I think Mike has proven he's an excellent songwriter and frontman. Dennis was a straight-up musical genius.

But only Brian was able to bring it together for the real magic. Let's not forget that.

Exactly right. On all points.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Maybe not 'puppets' per se, but it's hard to deny that for some of the group's best work, Brian essentially used the Beach Boys' voices as instruments (and in some cases, only his own), just as he did with the musicians he worked with.

That said, whoever said there were 5 geniuses in the Beach Boys, I think I agree with them. I mean, in their own way. Carl and Al were legit vocalists, and later, great & unique producers. I think Mike has proven he's an excellent songwriter and frontman. Dennis was a straight-up musical genius.

But only Brian was able to bring it together for the real magic. Let's not forget that.

Exactly right. On all points.

Well said Donny.... You give all the Boys proper props while putting Brian up at the front where he belongs.

[guitarfool2002]

On the other hand I'm sure there is plenty of great music and production that never "made it" because the messengers couldn't make it magic. Brian deserves a lot of credit but probably get more than he deserves and the Boys deserve a lot of credit but probably get much less than they deserve.

Yeah, Brian Wilson's puppets. It's not like Brian was a multi-instrumentalist playing all the parts, and the Boys just came in to do the vocals. At some point in the past it was said that sometimes Brian was dissatisfied with the Boys vocals, erased them, and did them all by himself, but I'm sure that story has been discredited by now.

If that happened it would be very easy to spot songs that were Brian layered all by himself. Isn't it only him on I Just Wasn't Made For These Times?

I've also read accounts where Mike hated Till I Die so much that Brian had to crawl off and do it all himself, but then there's the album track with The Beach Boys and Brian singing clear as day for all to hear.

It is easy to spot. if you have the SOT Pet Sounds discs, listen as Brian builds the vocal harmony tracks voice after voice on certain tracks. And realize that sometimes instead of Mike-Carl-Dennis-Al-Brian (and sometimes Bruce) getting that wall of vocals, you're hearing Brian-Brian-Brian-Brian-Mike in some cases.

I'm not making that up, or exaggerating the point. I've listened many, many times to that blend and I often hear a wall-of-Brian on certain tracks as often as I hear the full band, especially on Pet Sounds.

So it's true. How often it's true depends on your ears, and accessing the actual tracking sessions to compare.