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Author Topic: The Kinks Discussion and Appreciation Thread  (Read 22548 times)
Mike's Beard
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« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2013, 11:40:03 PM »

sounds like Ray n Dave are indeed discussing a reunion...!
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dave-davies-odds-of-a-kinks-tour-in-2014-are-50-50-20130925

i very much doubt Mick will be involved due to Dave's complete disdain for him. unfortunate indeed.
but it's all about the Davies boys in the end, so i really hope it happens and i get to see it!

i met Ray briefly a couple years ago when he came through Charlotte. got my Great Lost Kinks Album signed!

so much brilliance, and so hard to pick a favorite album. anything from Something Else to Hillbillies is a worthy contender. and speaking of Contenders, i haven't seen quite enough praise for the Lola album. It's a masterpiece, and a commentary on the music industry as only Ray can deliver.



Good interview, thanks for posting. These guys are just incapable of getting on but hopefully something will happen. Despite Dave's protests I hope Mick is involved, it's not The Kinks without him. Also it sucks to think that a legend such as Dave Davies is hurting for cash.
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« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2013, 11:50:00 PM »

I'd be okay with Bob Henrit as the drummer for a reunion, since he was in the band for the last 10 years of its life - and did a fine job on the skins, but Mick of course is my sentimental choice because he was there longer, but there's enough tension between Ray and Dave without adding Mick to the fire. At their age, another confrontation could be fatal. Dave had a stroke and Ray got shot, we're lucky they're still with us.
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« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2014, 10:41:42 AM »

I'm reviving this thread because it's more general and wide-ranging than the other recent Kinks thread.

Over the last year or so I've been finally listening the Kinks beyond the most famous hits (which I've known and mostly loved since I was young.) As a kid I was under the impression that they were essentially a singles band and so I left it at that. Now, having investigated further, I still think they were at their best as a singles band (and there's no shame in that) but they also had a number of other incredible pop songs scattered among their LPs, b-sides and EPs.

A band that spans the best and worst of rock in my opinion, but just to focus on the best:

These are my favourite Kinks singles:

Autumn Almanac (my favourite of all; a masterpiece)
Lola (sheer genius)
You Really Got Me
Victooo-oooo-ooooria
Waterloo Sunset
See My Friends
Set Me Free
All Day And All Of The Night
Till The End Of the Day
Sunny Afternoon
Apeman

And these are my favourites so far among the non-singles:

Polly (this is so catchy and irresistable! How it could have been left off their box set?)
Afternoon Tea (chorus is good; verse is sheer bliss)
Something Better Beginning (such a perfect ballad from before they were noted for such things)
Australia (up to the end of the song proper, before the ominous farting about)
Phenomenal Cat (Inspired)
I Need You (third in "the great riff trilogy", to coin a phrase, after You Really Got Me and All Day And All Of The Night)
David Watts- so many good songs on "Something Else By The Kinks", even though there's a few on there I'm not so keen on.
When I See That Girl Of Mine (my favourite non-single on one of my favourite of their albums, The Kinks Kontroversy)
All My Friends Were There (The village green album at its best)
I Go To Sleep (gorgeous demo)

I could say more, but that's enough for one post.
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« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2014, 11:37:23 PM »

I'm a longtime Kinks fan, and the average rock and roll fan today - at least in the US - probably only remembers 3 songs of theirs, YRGM, ADAAOTN, and Lola. I've heard Lola so many times now, I really never need to hear it again. On the other hand, I never get tired of those first two hits. They rank right at the top for pure rock and roll excitement alongside Good Golly Miss Molly, Johnny B. Goode and Louie Louie.
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« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2014, 02:10:46 AM »

. I've heard Lola so many times now, I really never need to hear it again.

I feel the same way about Days. When I was a kid listening to the greatest hits I liked it just as much as the other singles, but at some point I started to hate it. Folk musicians love to play it.
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« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2014, 11:38:40 PM »

. I've heard Lola so many times now, I really never need to hear it again.

I feel the same way about Days. When I was a kid listening to the greatest hits I liked it just as much as the other singles, but at some point I started to hate it. Folk musicians love to play it.
Days is a nice enough tune, but unlike many Kinks fans, I don't rate it as highly as Waterloo Sunset, Sunny Afternoon, or Dead End Street. Ray obviously likes it a lot, though - did a new version on the Kinks 1992 ep "Did Ya". The title track of that ep might be the single most underrated track in Kinks history, simply because nobody heard it. I was lucky to find one of the 3 copies that escaped from the pressing plant back in the day.
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« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2014, 02:26:30 AM »

. I've heard Lola so many times now, I really never need to hear it again.

I feel the same way about Days. When I was a kid listening to the greatest hits I liked it just as much as the other singles, but at some point I started to hate it. Folk musicians love to play it.
Days is a nice enough tune, but unlike many Kinks fans, I don't rate it as highly as Waterloo Sunset, Sunny Afternoon, or Dead End Street. Ray obviously likes it a lot, though - did a new version on the Kinks 1992 ep "Did Ya". The title track of that ep might be the single most underrated track in Kinks history, simply because nobody heard it. I was lucky to find one of the 3 copies that escaped from the pressing plant back in the day.

Well, I've heard it now, since it's on Spotify (on a quirky "best of"). It's OK I suppose. I don't like much of the latter-day stuff (mostly going on what's on the boxed set).
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« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2014, 02:49:24 AM »

The only great Kinks song form the 80's onwards that I've heard is Dave's Livin' On a Thin Line which is fantastic.
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« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2014, 04:02:37 AM »

Did Ya is on my copy of Phobia. Animal from to the bone is a great song.
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« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2014, 01:22:02 PM »

. I've heard Lola so many times now, I really never need to hear it again.

I feel the same way about Days. When I was a kid listening to the greatest hits I liked it just as much as the other singles, but at some point I started to hate it. Folk musicians love to play it.
Days is a nice enough tune, but unlike many Kinks fans, I don't rate it as highly as Waterloo Sunset, Sunny Afternoon, or Dead End Street. Ray obviously likes it a lot, though - did a new version on the Kinks 1992 ep "Did Ya". The title track of that ep might be the single most underrated track in Kinks history, simply because nobody heard it. I was lucky to find one of the 3 copies that escaped from the pressing plant back in the day.

Well, I've heard it now, since it's on Spotify (on a quirky "best of"). It's OK I suppose. I don't like much of the latter-day stuff (mostly going on what's on the boxed set).
Surprised you didn't like it, Did Ya - IMHO - really captures that lazy Sunny Afternoon feel. My friend at the record store played it for me when it came out, and we both expected the album to follow with more similar tunes.
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« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2014, 01:23:10 PM »

Did Ya is on my copy of Phobia. Animal from to the bone is a great song.
Is that the UK version? The other great song on the Did Ya ep is Dave's Look Through Any Doorway. Too bad that one didn't see wider release.
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« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2014, 02:07:49 PM »

Yes, uk release. Scattered is a great song from that one too. Must seek out the ep.
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« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2014, 10:11:19 PM »

The only great Kinks song form the 80's onwards that I've heard is Dave's Livin' On a Thin Line which is fantastic.

Um, "Better Days?"  "Come Dancing?" "Do it Again?"  "Round the Dial?" "Don't Forget to Dance?"  "Art Lover?"

There's more.  Just my opinion.
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« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2014, 10:54:06 PM »

The only great Kinks song form the 80's onwards that I've heard is Dave's Livin' On a Thin Line which is fantastic.

Um, "Better Days?"  "Come Dancing?" "Do it Again?"  "Round the Dial?" "Don't Forget to Dance?"  "Art Lover?"

There's more.  Just my opinion.
I'm partial to the 80's Kinks as that's the stuff I grew up with.
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« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2014, 02:47:39 AM »

I may have to eat my words in future, but at this point  "Come Dancing" is the only Kinks song I really appreciate from the mid-70s onwards. For a band who were so far ahead of their peers in the sixties, setting the standard and breaking new ground with "You Relaly Got Me", "See My Friends" and then the music-hall inspired stuff, it's quite depressing to hear them sounding like lesser stadium rock or pub rock bands. "Scattered" and "Million Pound Semi Detatched" are nice tunes, but nothing like their best. Still, I respect them for carrying on and following their own path rather than resting on their laurels, and I know it's a lot more to other peoples' taste than it is to mine.
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« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2014, 05:07:46 AM »

That's my take on it too. The Kinks never embarressed themselves in the 80's like the Stones and The Beach Boys did but Ray's days of writing top shelf material were long gone.
In fairness, how many outright masterpieces can one person have in them?
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« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2014, 04:50:17 PM »

That's my take on it too. The Kinks never embarressed themselves in the 80's like the Stones and The Beach Boys did but Ray's days of writing top shelf material were long gone.
In fairness, how many outright masterpieces can one person have in them?

Art Lover is a fantastic 80s Kinks track!

I think it's up there with Ray's 60s stuff.
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« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2014, 10:15:13 PM »

Come to daddy!

We've hashed this all out before, but there are three clear Kinks periods (with transitions) pretty much delineated by their record companies at the time.  The Reprise years are the most beloved and contain not only the early hits and crunchers but Waterloo Sunset, Village Green, and the like.  Effin' genius.  I am very fond of the RCA period which contains lots of really cool stuff if a bit more spotty.  As I like to mention one of my favorite Kinks LPs is "Schoolboys in Disgrace" from the mid-70s.  And then there is the commercial rebirth of the Arista years.  Even spottier I suppose but many gems therein as mentioned -- again only my opinion.

It has been pointed out before there are many similarities in the arc of the Kinks and Beach Boys (Brian and Ray's middle name for one!).  An initial burst of great popularity followed by a creative nova that was virtually ignored followed by a live/hip resurgence in the 70s with interesting albums followed by a commercial blossoming into more calculated arena gestures.  Brothers in the band, fistfights, acrimony.  Of course the BBs popularity eclipses the Kinks' but you get the point.
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« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2014, 10:23:01 PM »

It has been pointed out before there are many similarities in the arc of the Kinks and Beach Boys (Brian and Ray's middle name for one!).  An initial burst of great popularity followed by a creative nova that was virtually ignored followed by a live/hip resurgence in the 70s with interesting albums followed by a commercial blossoming into more calculated arena gestures.  Brothers in the band, fistfights, acrimony.  Of course the BBs popularity eclipses the Kinks' but you get the point.

I've often thought about how Dave and Dennis are also very similar.

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« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2014, 11:47:06 PM »

I've heard Lola so many times now, I really never need to hear it again.

I feel the same way about Days. When I was a kid listening to the greatest hits I liked it just as much as the other singles, but at some point I started to hate it. Folk musicians love to play it.
Days is a nice enough tune, but unlike many Kinks fans, I don't rate it as highly as Waterloo Sunset, Sunny Afternoon, or Dead End Street. Ray obviously likes it a lot, though - did a new version on the Kinks 1992 ep "Did Ya". The title track of that ep might be the single most underrated track in Kinks history, simply because nobody heard it. I was lucky to find one of the 3 copies that escaped from the pressing plant back in the day.
I'm with you, folks. I have these fancy headphones "Beats by Dr. Dre" which converted me to many songs I wasn't keen on, so I don them before listening to "Days" - in hi-fi stereo, mind - & it still does nothing for me! Speaking of wonderful "Sunny Afternoon", it's in my Top-1 of the Kinks. Others I like in no order:
 "Victoria", "Waterloo Sunset", "Dedicated Follower of Fashion", "Phenomenal Cat" (obviously), "Johnny Thunder", "Susannah's Still Alive", "Sitting by the Riverside", "Australia" (dig Dave's guitar soloing), "Come Dancing" (very catchy), "Dead End Street". "I'm not Like Everybody Else" is cool, but not as much as this awesome version by The Chocolate Watchband.
I have yet to load their later stuff & Ray's cover album of classics.
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« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2014, 03:23:26 PM »

Chocolate Watchband, and I do like them, make that sound like the Stones.  Dave's take is far better.
The reason I never posted in the Essential Thread, was more than less it's all essential.  Every album had it's strong points.  Yes, the 60's stuff couldn't be bettered, but they never stopped producing great music.  They didn't miss a beat when John Dalton, John Gosling, the singers and the horns came in.  They lost a bit when they left, but then came the American success in the arenas.  They would open shows with "The Hard Way" or do a double shot opener with "Around the Dial" and right into "Give the People What They Want."  Then they would cover the field with flailing bodies on  "20th Century Man" - the place would go nuts.  "Catch Me Now I'm Falling" "(Wish I Could Fly Like) Superman" - slow down for "Gallon of Gas" or "Art Lover" - then bang on to "Destroyer" "Prince of Punks" and "Bernadette."  Always room for a few old 60's classics, then off again with "Juke-Box Music" "State of Confusion"... "Living on a Thin Line" "Better Days" and "Where Have All the Good Times Gone" for the first encore.  You can figure what came for the next encore in a one-two punch.   I didn't get to see them 'til the late 70's, but all the shows I did see from 1979 and through the 80's, any and all in the Bay Area...  They were power in action.  I never missed a chance to see them live, even if I had to work the next day.  Ray and Dave were white hot balls of energy, they rarely stopped moving.  Tracks like "Think Visual" and "Cliches of the World (B-Movie)" "Pressure" "Mr. Big" "Full Moon" "Stormy Sky" went over much better than the album versions.  The Kinks existed to be seen Live.  The oldies they picked, amazed.  "She's Bought a Hat Like Princess Marina" "Top of the Pops" "Sitting in My Hotel" "Apeman" "Dead-End Street" "David Watts" "Victoria" - Ray even played "Look a little on the Sunnyside" one night.  And "Money Talks"- think that's the only track I ever saw him play from The Act's.
You guys are leaving out all sorts of great album songs too!
A lot of the 60's stuff was covered well in the Essential Thread, but I can't believe the lack of respect for the Music Hall era, some of which was always in the act - it's British/European tradition.  Nobody has pointed out the Preservation Acts are a continuation of The Village Green.  Flash and the rest were there.  Ray just didn't put them out in order, read the liner notes to School Boys in Disgrace.  That's Ray writing another Act, the tracks on side 2 are really telling a true story about Dave, but disguised as Mr. Flash.  He also updated the story of Johnny Thunder in Act I.  It was a peaceful Village Green Preservation Society, then the bandits came in.  Demolition...  Most of Act I is the coming storm.  Tracks like "Where Are They Now" or "Sitting in the Mid-Day Sun" (both by the Tramp), could have just as easily been on Village Green.  Act II is the devastation.  Ray had many voices.  He was the tramp and the villains.  Ray spent all his time trying to write about the people around him - family, friends, and people he wanted to expose to the world.  That's the connection to his whole career.  Dave mostly came off as a solo act, which is why many of his songs didn't make it on the albums.  They had a hard time fitting in with Ray's people tunes.  Don't forget, Ray was the producer.  He picks what goes on the albums, and he personally picked what was on the Picture Book set - for better or worse.  Who knows why he decided to put crappy lo-fi demos of hit songs on it. 
One of the best favors you could do yourself, is save up to get the BBC Box.  The five CDs are one thing, but the DVD is mind alternately fantastic.  The Kinks Kollekted DVD too.  Those are the videos they made, mostly the 60's and early 70's.  Some of them must be up on youtube, go watch.  I know a lot of the BBC live stuff has been up-loaded.  My biggest Kinks regret is not getting to see the band live in the late sixties/early seventies.  They would not play much of the Music Hall stuff, it was like Ray had put it all behind him.  Many complete shows from the Music Hall period are on youtube.  I don't care if Ray's drunk or joking...I love watching A Soap Opera performed live.  The Act's too.  Go watch 'em.  I don't know where those folks got the videos from, but I wish they would contact Ray about getting them out on discs.  The live record that comes with Everybody's in Show-Biz betters every studio track they played.  Most of those are on the BBC DVD, and they toss in the audio of the same on the CDs.  The two-disc BBC version was just the beginning.  It is one of the best sets of live music I've ever heard.
And all era's of The Kinks had merit.
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« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2014, 11:45:21 AM »

Thanks for your contribution Feelsflow, I always like your posts. 

Now, one thing that annoys me about critical surveys of the Kinks is the phrase "anything from 'Face to Face' to ______ is solid gold" or variations on the same. I think their first great album was 'Kontroversy' and I think it's actually better, song for song, than 'Face to Face'. I guess the latter is so highly rated because it's the first album full of songs in Ray Davies's "character study" style, but although the lyrics on "Kontroversy" are more conventional, they're still good lyrics. "The World Keeps Going Round", ""Where Have All the Good Times Gone", "I'm On An Island"- they all verge on the philosophical. And the tuens are better than on 'Face to Face'

So I'm pleased than in the original post of this thread Freddie modified this formula to "Anything from Kontroversy up to Muswell Hillbilles is pure gold". Long Live the Kontroversy Reappraisal Consortium!
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« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2014, 01:14:37 PM »

Actually, I go as far back as Kwyet Kinks as the start of their "golden period."
It's a 4-song EP with all of the tracks exclusive to it, including a song by Dave. Plus, it has "Well Respected Man", and who doesn't love that song?
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« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2014, 01:53:04 PM »

Actually, I go as far back as Kwyet Kinks as the start of their "golden period."
It's a 4-song EP with all of the tracks exclusive to it, including a song by Dave. Plus, it has "Well Respected Man", and who doesn't love that song?

Me! It's too dour and repetitive. Though an important song in their development.
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« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2014, 12:12:17 AM »

I think of the early Kinks as a great singles band. The hits of 64-65 can't be beat, but those early albums were very hit and miss. A lot of r&b covers, and Dave sang a lot more than is generally recognized - and not very well in the early days. But they did blossom as an album band about the time they stopped having hits in the US. The RCA years I find a lot less enjoyable. Sure, Ray had some great ideas, but those albums were like original cast albums, the band themselves were not that pleased with them, not a lot of great songs to be found within. Ambitious? Yes, but I prefer the Arista years, especially Misfits, GTPWTW, SOC, and WOM. One For the Road is a good live document, too, although it does tend to lean a bit too much on the Kinks as hard rockers. In fact, they were so successful as "arena rockers" in the Low Budget era, that "Come Dancing" kind of threw their hard rock audience a curve. Their usual AOR base wasn't sure what to make of the song, it became a top 40 hit with endless plays on MTV, but it didn't really represent 90% of what they were doing on stage at the time. Big crossover hit, but after that, their AOR support dried up. The Kinks were just too hard to pigeonhole.
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