Did Brian ruin Heroes and Villains by adding the "Bicycle Rider" chorus?

[Jukka]

What are you saying? The cantina version's fade is perfect! The song goes through all kinds of hoops and loops, all kinds of craziness going on... Then it ends with a BANG (the explosion), and the fade represents our hero riding to the sunset after his big adventure. I say it's no placeholder. It just makes sense. Kind of like end credits, you know?

[Rotat]

What are you saying? The cantina version's fade is perfect! The song goes through all kinds of hoops and loops, all kinds of craziness going on... Then it ends with a BANG (the explosion), and the fade represents our hero riding to the sunset after his big adventure. I say it's no placeholder. It just makes sense. Kind of like end credits, you know?

Yeah I can't believe people would take off that "false barnyard" ending.. That is definitely one of my favorite parts of the original H&V.. The ending is absolutely perfect. It makes you realize what an epic song you just listened to. It's like a movie with the perfect ending. Those BB vocals (I can't remember if they were in the original mix or not) are some of the most gorgeous harmonies they've ever done! Up there with Our Prayer and the Whispering Winds tag from SS Wind Chimes to me..

[runnersdialzero]

Where did this "hero riding off into the sunset" theory come from?

[Jukka]

Where did this "hero riding off into the sunset" theory come from?

From my mind, as told by my ears. Hey, Imma genus too!

[runnersdialzero]

Yeah, well, I just picture a very fugly old woman dancing around.

[Jukka]

Yeah, well, I just picture a very fugly old woman dancing around.

Slightly sped-up, sepia toned crackly film... Yeah, I can totally picture it.

[Phoenix]

What are you saying? The cantina version's fade is perfect! The song goes through all kinds of hoops and loops, all kinds of craziness going on... Then it ends with a BANG (the explosion), and the fade represents our hero riding to the sunset after his big adventure. I say it's no placeholder. It just makes sense. Kind of like end credits, you know?

That's a great theory.  It makes total sense and is quite possibly the reason Brian used it like that when he decided to.  I just still think any version but the one I picture as the full "mythical long version" sounds incomplete. 

[Jim V.]

What are you saying? The cantina version's fade is perfect! The song goes through all kinds of hoops and loops, all kinds of craziness going on... Then it ends with a BANG (the explosion), and the fade represents our hero riding to the sunset after his big adventure. I say it's no placeholder. It just makes sense. Kind of like end credits, you know?

That's a great theory.  It makes total sense and is quite possibly the reason Brian used it like that when he decided to.  I just still think any version but the one I picture as the full "mythical long version" sounds incomplete. 

I'm being honest here, and not being dismissive of this at all, but what do you think the "mythical long version" would be. A version that would include "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard"? What else? I for one think that like SMiLE, "Heroes And Villains" will always sound best in a version that we can only imagine, but never hear. However, to me, I'm totally happy with the single version. Still my favorite.

[Phoenix]

What are you saying? The cantina version's fade is perfect! The song goes through all kinds of hoops and loops, all kinds of craziness going on... Then it ends with a BANG (the explosion), and the fade represents our hero riding to the sunset after his big adventure. I say it's no placeholder. It just makes sense. Kind of like end credits, you know?

That's a great theory.  It makes total sense and is quite possibly the reason Brian used it like that when he decided to.  I just still think any version but the one I picture as the full "mythical long version" sounds incomplete. 

I'm being honest here, and not being dismissive of this at all, but what do you think the "mythical long version" would be. A version that would include "I'm In Great Shape" and "Barnyard"? What else? I for one think that like SMiLE, "Heroes And Villains" will always sound best in a version that we can only imagine, but never hear. However, to me, I'm totally happy with the single version. Still my favorite.

From page 2 of this thread:

It's all the same.  I've said for years: Cantina version, minus the Barnshine fade = part one.  Single version, from first chorus on = part two.  Once Brian decided to trim things down to a standard length single, he combined the two by putting the opening of part one at the start of part two.  Voila!  Since hitting on that idea, every other version sounds incomplete or, in the case of the 2004 construction, wrong, to me.

Combine them and you have the "mythical long (album) version". 
Split it in half and you have both sides of the two sided single:  Side A = Part 1, Side B = Part 2

[Tricycle Rider]

This was a Spector thing too. There's a famous story out there somewhere of an engineer telling another engineer that he had seen Spector work, and knew the 'secret' to get the wall of sound, but he'd never believe him. So they make some kind of bet, and the first guy goes to the studio with the second guy to show him how to do it. Time was booked, musicians hired, etc.

So they start setting up and the guy starts setting up musicians all over the place, some of which are not even miked up. Engineer #2 starts freaking out ('is this a joke!?! I'm not gonna pay a guy who's not even being recorded!' etc.), and the session is cancelled.

I wish I could find this story online because I'm paraphrasing !!! probably just lore in any case, but I'd believe it.

Hey DonnyL,

Is this the story that you're thinking of?

"The late recording engineer Larry Levine (the inventor of the Gold Star WALL OF SOUND) told me this amusing story at breakfast one day a few years back. I think you will find it interesting.

One day this hot shot producer calls Larry up and sez: "Larry, I have this hot new singer (now quite famous) and I want her to be backed up with the Wall Of Sound type deal. Can you reproduce that in the studio for me?"

Larry said he could if the hot shot producer would let him have free reign and not interfere. The producer said he would. So, Larry booked a studio (A&M) and hired a bunch of great LA studio musicians and started recording.

First thing the hot shot producer did when he walked in was take a look into the studio. He stopped the session right there and said: "Hey, Larry, something is wrong here! There are two bass players, two drummers, three guitar players, two keyboard players and most of them ARE NOT EVEN MIKED!"

Larry said "I know, that's what I want".

The producer said "What is the good of having all of those musicians playing (and costing me a union fortune) if they are not going to be on microphone? This is costing me a great deal of money."

Larry said that if this guy wanted the WALL OF SOUND, this type of recording setup was essential. The hot shot producer said that if he needed two drummers, bass players, etc. he could just have his usual players overdub as many parts as they needed but at least they would be on mike.

Larry explained that the entire idea of the Wall was to create a literal WALL OF SOUND and that to put all the musicians on their own microphones would ruin the effect. The idea wasn't to hear all of the musicians, the idea was to obscure the detail of individual instruments and instead feel the total sound in your gut, the adding of detail would ruin the illusion.

The hot shot producer immediately canceled the session and that was that. No WALL OF SOUND for that guy. He just couldn't believe what Larry Levine was telling him. It was the impact of the group as a whole that was important, not the details of what the glockenspiel player was doing, etc."

I got this from here:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/pet-sounds-and-beach-boys-new-stereo-mixes-why-did-brian-wilson-change-his-mind.156267/

Post #1

[Fall Breaks]

What are you saying? The cantina version's fade is perfect! The song goes through all kinds of hoops and loops, all kinds of craziness going on... Then it ends with a BANG (the explosion), and the fade represents our hero riding to the sunset after his big adventure. I say it's no placeholder. It just makes sense. Kind of like end credits, you know?

Are you sure the sunset hero thing "only" comes from your mind? Because that's the way I've always heard the ending as well! It's not in a book och lner notes or so, is it?

[Jukka]

Don't remember reading it anywhere... But it's kind of obvious, innit? Goes to show you that Brian knew what he was doing and he did it well. Putting images into peoples heads with his music.