Health Care

[Bean Bag]

Why are the politicians opting out?  I'd love to hear other's as well.  Mine's a two-parter...

FIRST
It's a bad law.  It's baaaaaaaaaad.  Politicians never had one single intention of following along with this bill.  NEVER!  It's sooo bad that the hotline's phone numbers is 1-800-FCKYOU.  It's soooo bad, its website doesn't work -- and(!!!!) it cost us over 600 million mtha fcking dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to build the website that don't work.

Fck us?  No, no, no...  How many people still think this heist is about healthcare?  Fewer, I'm sure.  Imagine -- someone, essentially standing in their burglarized living room -- lamps knocked over, picture frames broken.  Jewelry gone, personal items ransacked.  Mumbling something from the "FREE In-Home, Interior Decorating" brochure.

Anyway... it's a bad law and the politicians know this...

SECOND
They knew all along.  It was the plan.  How did the politicians know all this was coming?  Cuz they read the bill to find out what's in it?  Wait, no... they passed the bill to find out what's in it.    Ha.  No, actually... they knew all along.  And now we know.  See how that works?  Now it's time for the politicians to collect.  $$$$$

It's called a heist.
Corporation A, you want out?  U wanna waiver?  Well, what are you gonna give the fine lady from California??  Hmmm?  'Choo got for Miss Pelozi mutha fkcer?"


Pay for protection  So why are we getting the blow???  Ain't that bad politics?  No.  It's not.  Not if the Media Talking Heads keep telling everybody it's "free in-home, interior decorating." Politicians can get the money safely to Mexico by the time the opposition hits critical mass.  Right now, people still think Ted Cruz and the T Partee are "crazy."

So, no.  No critical mass.

[Bean Bag]

Hot off the presses....
Obamacare's Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn't Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/

"On average, the cheapest plan offered in a given state, under Obamacare, will be 99 percent more expensive for men, and 62 percent more expensive for women, than the cheapest plan offered under the old system. And those disparities are even wider for healthy people."




Obama rox!

[Alex]

I honestly don`t get why the right isn`t behind the ACA as it`s pretty much guaranteeing huge revenues/profits for the private insurance companies. There was really no point to passing the ACA after the public option was dropped from the bill. I`d much rather see a single-payer system like Canadian Medicare or the British NHS come into place than a giant handout to the insurance industry (which in a certain sense, ACA/Obamacare is just that).

[Bean Bag]

Fair enough.  For different reasons, we don't like Obamacare.  Let's hope we, us -- all of us -- can come together and get Obamacare stopped then.

And so we're clear -- no one on the "right" wants a handout to any industry.  I don't know who put that thought into your head.

Secondly, if that's what you believe it is -- isn't Obama and Obamacare everything a Leftist hates?  Or is it everything a Leftist blames others of doing?

[Alex]

Obama's been a disappointment to the left since day 1, but if more liberals/leftists/progressives/whathaveyou had done their homework in the last two elections maybe we'd be in a second term of Ralph Nader right now.

[Bean Bag]

Is what we're experiencing today, historically unique?  There's probably always townfolk wanting more out of their party.  More out of politicians

However -- the Demoracts are telling their Republican enemy that their base is the enemy!!  And the Republicans believe them!!!      

Dat's gotta be a first.



ELVIS DOESN'T LIKE

[Jason]

Stefan Molyneux destroys Obamacare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9r93OxpE8g

[guitarfool2002]

I was going to mention the last two weeks' developments, but why bother. It will hit everyone directly soon enough, even the most ardent supporters of this piece of sh*t law, this terrible pile of sh*t law that's hurting good people for no reason other than misguided ideology and misplaced activism. At the point those folks who do nothing but defend it get a cancellation notice or a notice that their rates are to double or triple as people have been receiving, then we might see something happen.

[Jason]

When it starts hitting the liberals in their wallets, I'll sit back and laugh. So far my company hasn't cancelled their coverage...

[Bean Bag]

Rates are going up at my company too.  People's response?  "We dodged a bullet."  That's right, our rates are going UP... and people feel lucky.

Is this "progress?"  This is what Liberalism (formerly known as Progressivism) can do to the Health Care industry.  These are the Progressives.  And they're just getting started.



The same Progressives that "cleansed us of the evils of alcohol" back in the 1920s with Prohibition.  The same Progressives that wanted to engineer a more perfect & pure society -- through abortion and eugenics -- to get rid of minorities and "undesirables" as they saw it.  Now they're going to make us more healthy.  The price hikes and dropped coverage are just the beginning.  Wait til the quality of care erodes.  Doctor's quit.  Hospitals close.  Small practices disappear.  Specialists?  Good luck finding one.  It's just starting.

How do we get rid of Progressives and their Plans?  People have to EXPERIENCE Progressivism first hand, sadly.  That seems to be the only way.  Progressives don't go away "just because."  They're extremely head-strong,  so they NEVER admit they're wrong.  And they've hoodwinked A LOT of people (voters) with their rhetoric and propaganda of GRAND SOLUTIONS.  In this case, they promise to FIX all the worlds health care ills.  Sure...

So they're not easy to get rid of.  For now, we will ALL get to experience the brilliance of Progressivism.  Cuz when they "help" -- it's for everyone!

[guitarfool2002]

When it starts hitting the liberals in their wallets, I'll sit back and laugh. So far my company hasn't cancelled their coverage...

I'm guessing your company is one of those that may have gotten the one-year exemption from the various "mandates". I'm hoping for your sake that it doesn't affect you or your co-workers, I mean that sincerely, because it's been a real pain in the ass for myself and the numbers of people like me who got "the letter" and are feeling pretty helpless about the whole thing.

I don't mean to put a dark cloud in the sky here, but this law is going to affect the entire system of private insurance across the board, whether or not it's just the individuals and small businesses like myself who have already been affected, or the larger companies and group plans who will be affected.

In short, I think this is the biggest scam ever put forth on the public who works and pays their bills on time, at least the biggest one in recent times.

NBC News - of all places - just went public last night with a report that Obama himself knew as early as 3 years ago that the bill would in effect cause millions to lose their health insurance plans, yet he and the supporters continued to lie and mislead with various campaign-style slogans and rallying cries such as the ones I posted in the first post of this thread. And those were from 2009...yet the lies continue. Notice the various Tweets and responses from various hacks in and around the WH and the DNC...now the tactic is "well, yes, you may lose your coverage but you'll get a less expensive plan! All will be better!"

Horseshit. The plans for one are not less expensive for even partially comparable coverage to that which was canceled, and what is less expensive involves high deductibles and reduced coverage and reduced choices of those coverage levels. It's not "better".

In terms of, say, the automobile industry, it would be like the government taking over a BMW dealership and replacing all of the luxury cars that people who can afford them would want to buy with something like a "Smart Car". The BMW buyers would ask "I can afford a BMW, I want a BMW, I think the BMW fits my needs better than anything else, so why am I no longer able to buy one?"

To which some government idiot would reply "But these are better! They're less expensive! You have many choices of colors, dashboard options, you can even plug in your iPod and have full Bluetooth capability! Not to mention it's better for the common good and for the environment, it's a terrific car."

"But, Mr. or Mrs. government hack...I like the BMW, I want a BMW, I have the money to pay for a BMW, and I don't take my iPod with me in the car, and the BMW models I like are already fuel-efficient and suit my needs and requirements for a safe luxury car just fine."

"Well, BMW owners, you can now choose from many different colors of the Smart Car. It's better and less expensive. If you want a car, choose one of the Smart Car models. The BMW doesn't meet our standards of having Bluetooth capability and fuel efficiency, so it's no longer your option to buy one."

"But I don't want Bluetooth, I don't use it, my current BMW is above the fuel-efficiency guidelines already......"

"Too bad. Here's the Smart Car line of colors. Pick one."

The health care debacle is doing just that to people who willingly paid for the health insurance of their choice.

At what point do the people (myself included) being affected by this health care debacle take a cue from the ideologists promoting such "changes" and do the whole collectivist thing, and collectively show up for a little civil disobedience and an old-fashioned rally at some national monument or buliding and start chanting in unison the lines borrowed from Rage Against The Machine "f*** you, I won't do what you tell me!". And collectively tell these people we're done with this nonsense.

Oh, one can dream...

But perhaps as the months go by and more letters and notices go out, we'll have a large collective of disgusted people ready and willing to chant those lyrics to the right people and get something done.

[Bean Bag]

At what point do the people (myself included) being affected by this health care debacle take a cue from the ideologists promoting such "changes" and do the whole collectivist thing, and collectively show up for a little civil disobedience and an old-fashioned rally at some national monument or buliding and start chanting in unison the lines borrowed from Rage Against The Machine "f*** you, I won't do what you tell me!". And collectively tell these people we're done with this nonsense.

Welcome to the Tea Party.  You're free to call it whatever you want.  It's not really a "party."

[guitarfool2002]

Believe me, I'm aware of that - remember one of the first cases that got a lot of this started was a local "town hall" meeting on health care with Sen. Arlen Specter, who was my own area's senator, and one of the reasons why I have such a disgust for politicians. Specter was at this meeting, and groups of voters showed up with direct and informed questions about the impending health care bill. Instead of being a man about it, Specter acted like he was the teacher in front of a group of children, he didn't know as much as the voters, and he was as elitist and as dismissive as his reputation suggested he acted behind closed doors but which he held in for public appearances.

And that was where a lot of the sentiment started bubbling up, when fools like Specter who got the golden ticket on our tax dollars were found to not only be ignorant of the same bills they were telling us to support, but also dismissive and derisive of the people they are working for.

Witness that even in the wake of the information that the media finally latched onto this week, you'll still hear people repeating talking points and propaganda about the health care issue and related points as if they feel *BETTER SERVED* by helping propagandize and support their favored political party and dismissing critics or any criticism in general...to the point where they ignore or dismiss or seek to "explain" the situations like I posted on page 1/post 1 here with a load of bullshit.

I think the groundswell will come when among the millions already having the plans canceled you'll find many people who feel duped and deceived by the party and the health care act they supported, and the result of their being duped will cost them out of their own pockets. Like the AFSCME union I posted about a few pages ago...these folks who carried signs and marched in favor of this law are now getting screwed by the same law they supported. I can't help but say "tough sh*t".

And at that point, when they don't have an extra few bills in the wallet to take the girlfriend out for a nice dinner or take the kids somewhere fun on a random Saturday, they'll get mad enough to act.  

You don't need an organized or named movement to have that kind of anger translate into something bigger.

[leggo of my ego]

Stay healthly, drive safe - you will not need any HC.

Brian knew and he was light years ahead of the curve when he said Chow down on your Veg-a-tables. 

[Bean Bag]

I agree Gfool.  It doesn't need to be "organized" in a traditional sense.  And, it's not, really.  That's why I said Tea Party isn't really a party.  To label them as such is a device of our media/State to ISOLATE and DESTROY.  Saul Alinsky 101.  It was just people.  People showed up WITHOUT the leadership of a party.  Like the townhalls.

I very much remember how it started -- the Townhalls.  Yup.  I remember the UNION THUGS, beating black men who came to ask questions.  I remember all that.  Can you imagine if that happened while Bush was in office?  He would have resigned.  Many of them were Demorat Townhalls -- for Demorats/unions only.  So there was NO PARTY affiliation to any of this.  Just angry citizens.

I remember "Benedict" Arlen Specter, too.  Condescending piece of sh*t.  Sellin' his people out.  Just like a lot of the f*ckfaces in the Republican Party.  John McCain.  Mitch McConnell.  Lindsey Graham.  I wonder if ole' Specter is getting his due, BTW?

[Rocky Raccoon]

I think when it comes to the tea party, Aaron Sorkin put it best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAvwSp86hY

[Iron Horse-Apples]

You want affordable health care? Get rid of any and all government involvement. Government turns everything it touches into garbage. I'm waiting for when health care in this country becomes bad on an NHS level...then maybe the pinko pygmies with their dreams of socialism will wise up - that is, if they're not dead.

I'm all for free speech, but sometimes your cuntish remarks are really offensive.

The NHS saved my sisters life. She's be dead if it wasn't for them of ovarian cancer. You don't live in this country, what the f*** do you know? The NHS is brilliant. It's only in trouble because it worked too well, and we have a bunch of upper class wankers in power who want to destroy it on ideological grounds.

In fact there's not a single person I know who hasn't had their life made better by our wonderful healthcare system. My 91 year old nan can hear again because of a cochlear implant. Thanks you NHS!

And you're sitting there in another country judging us. Tell all that to my beloved sister you d*ckhead. She'll soon put you straight.

[Rocky Raccoon]

You want affordable health care? Get rid of any and all government involvement. Government turns everything it touches into garbage. I'm waiting for when health care in this country becomes bad on an NHS level...then maybe the pinko pygmies with their dreams of socialism will wise up - that is, if they're not dead.

I'm all for free speech, but sometimes your cuntish remarks are really offensive.

The NHS saved my sisters life. She's be dead if it wasn't for them of ovarian cancer. You don't live in this country, what the f*** do you know? The NHS is brilliant. It's only in trouble because it worked too well, and we have a bunch of upper class wankers in power who want to destroy it on ideological grounds.

In fact there's not a single person I know who hasn't had their life made better by our wonderful healthcare system. My 91 year old nan can hear again because of a cochlear implant. Thanks you NHS!

And you're sitting there in another country judging us. Tell all that to my beloved sister you d*ckhead. She'll soon put you straight.

Stephen, I'm not taking sides in this argument but I think you can be a little bit more civil in making your case which I think is a pretty good one but your aggressiveness towards TRBB and calling him names isn't going to help you.  I see nothing wrong with having an opposing viewpoint, in fact I would encourage such arguments but while one person might believe something different, they're still human and they deserve to be treated like such.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'm pretty sure TRBB lives in the US.  I don't know where you got the idea that he doesn't.

Er, what part of these sentences confused you? Bear in  mind I've already made it pretty clear I'm in the UK by talking about "our" NHS

You don't live in this country.......

And you're sitting there in another country judging us..........

Two years ago my sister came very close to death and was saved by the wonderful staff of the NHS. When I hear it criticed, especially by some ignorant twat in another country, it makes me really fucking angry.

Now RealBeachBoy is a big supporter of free speech, as am I. He has a perfect right to criticise the healthcare of a country of which he has no direct knowledge, and I have the perfect right to call him out over it.

Now when you've........

a) Nearly lost a close relative to cancer and had to watch the wonderful organisation that saved her dismantled.

b) Learnt basic comprehension skills

then feel free to chastise me 

[Rocky Raccoon]

I apologize, I hadn't been following the thread closely enough.  I was just a little thrown off.  Don't get me wrong, you have very good reason to be angry at that comment but I just think everyone on this board should try to be more civil towards each other.

To be honest, I know little about the NHS as well but I'm also pretty sure that it's been very successful.  To call it a bad example is a little strange.  Hell, the British are so satisfied with their health care, it was given a tribute in the 2012 Olympics.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

OK, sorry Rocky. His remark just galled me, I'm probably over reacting.

[leggo of my ego]

OK, sorry Rocky. His remark just galled me, I'm probably over reacting.

watch out, he can boot you being a mod ya know. 

(i'll stick to crtique of my own countries HC)

[Iron Horse-Apples]

He's welcome to ban me. Wouldn't be much of an advert for free speech though. 

Don't get me wrong, I like and respect TRBB. He's a good guy. He's pissed me off in this instance though by thoughtlessly and ignorantly criticsing our wonderful health service.

[Jason]

You want affordable health care? Get rid of any and all government involvement. Government turns everything it touches into garbage. I'm waiting for when health care in this country becomes bad on an NHS level...then maybe the pinko pygmies with their dreams of socialism will wise up - that is, if they're not dead.

I'm all for free speech, but sometimes your cuntish remarks are really offensive.

The NHS saved my sisters life. She's be dead if it wasn't for them of ovarian cancer. You don't live in this country, what the f*** do you know? The NHS is brilliant. It's only in trouble because it worked too well, and we have a bunch of upper class wankers in power who want to destroy it on ideological grounds.

In fact there's not a single person I know who hasn't had their life made better by our wonderful healthcare system. My 91 year old nan can hear again because of a cochlear implant. Thanks you NHS!

And you're sitting there in another country judging us. Tell all that to my beloved sister you d*ckhead. She'll soon put you straight.

"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." - Stephen Fry

Grow up. No one has a right to be free from the "burden" of choosing to be offended.

"I'm offended!" = "I am unable or unwilling to otherwise account for my lack of social, mental, and emotional stability so I will just respond with an empty statement that adds nothing to the discussion in the vain hope that you will compensate for said lack on my part."

It's an attempt to appeal to my emotions. I am free to criticize the NHS all I want as you're free to call me out over it. Not to wax overly patriotic or anything but don't act like you Brits have never, EVER criticized any other country's policies. Then maybe I might take you more seriously.

But no, I won't ban you. I'm not going to make you a martyr.

And yes, I'm glad your family received treatment. My disagreement with the means does not equal disagreement with the ends.

[Jason]

OK, sorry Rocky. His remark just galled me, I'm probably over reacting.

watch out, he can boot you being a mod ya know. 

(i'll stick to crtique of my own countries HC)

You know, for as long as I've been a mod here, I've never banned anyone for personally attacking me. Not once. If I didn't take it as well as I dish it out, well...it would be hypocritical on my part.