Health Care

[guitarfool2002]

1. Action and words.

President Obama:
June 15, 2009: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan. Period.”

August 22, 2009: If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period.”

September 9, 2009: “Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have. Let me repeat this. Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have.”


2. Reaction.

Envelope I received in the mail this morning (name blocked out):




3. Consequence.

The letter inside that envelope which advertised "exciting changes" to my current plan (name blocked out):





Simple as that. I can't keep my current plan. Exciting.

[Jason]

Obama and his acolytes are intellectual and social pygmies. A turd is still a turd, and Obamacare is definitely a turd.

[rab2591]

In my area this thing is a friggin disaster.

Basically there are so many fees, penalties, taxes this thing entails, the local university (major employer in my area) has to change plans (in a huge way) to keep costs down from what they previously were.

I'm all for affordable healthcare (and the republicans are idiots for not coming up with/endorsing any plan that would fix America's healthcare problem) but it seems that Obamacare is not the solution that was promised.

[Jason]

You want affordable health care? Get rid of any and all government involvement. Government turns everything it touches into garbage. I'm waiting for when health care in this country becomes bad on an NHS level...then maybe the pinko pygmies with their dreams of socialism will wise up - that is, if they're not dead.

[bgas]

yeah, government isn't the best for running health care, but everyone deserves  to have it in this country.
No sense putting the blame on the insurance companies that took off running and decided to cancel the policies and upchareg everybody they possibly can.
No ," It's all the fault of Obamacare". 
Please. Instead, let's shoot ALL the insurance execs, until they start caring for folks instead of trying to shiv them
That would be a good start towards Universal health care

[Jason]

And THAT is the other major issue. The insurance companies ARE part of the problem, but they only became such when government began sticking its nose into health care. Insurance was originally intended for catastrophic incidents, not regular trips to the doctor for the sniffles and scrapes and the prescriptions to go with them. It's a multifaceted issue. Intellectual property laws are the main reason that prescription drugs are so expensive, on top of the ridiculous regulations that go into making them.

Americans want to have their cake and eat it too. There is no right to health care.

[Bean Bag]

It wasn't that long ago.  Just a few decades... we used to have "ole' Doc Brown" stopping in to check little Timmy in the pouring rain, at 2 am, if need be.  After all, Timmy is too sick to be out in the rain.  Carrying his little black bag and stethoscope and a warm smile, walking upstairs and into Timmy's room, putting his hand on his forehead, and saying "he's alright now Mrs Williams.  Just make sure he gets his rest."





Enter the gubment.  Why?  It stuck its dirty finger in our collective rear-end and started mucking with a perfectly healthy and sustainable industry.

Sure enough, it all changed.  Doc Brown was replaced with a nameless, faceless INSURANCE company logo.  Sure, you still saw the Doc... but you didn't pay him.  Not like you pay your grocer, another essential service.  No, now you paid some middle man -- a very expensive middle man.  Makes sense right?  Only if you're mentally insane (or a socialist) does it make sense.

With the one-on-one free market relationship out of the way -- aka Doc Brown -- the government's second goal was poised to detonate.  OVERLOADED these companies with all the "small-claims" stuff.  We all know the drill.  Co-pays, forms... BIG bills for routine sh-t.  You see, the insurance companies didn't mind... they got ALL the business.  And they didn't have to be "consumer friendly" and competitive... cuz, you had no choice.





Which brings us to today.  ObamaCare.  Their FINAL SOLUTION [cue thunder clap].  It's goal is to finish the deal.  DESTROY and REPLACE the insurance industry.  And why not?  No one enjoys the experience.

Well, the insurance companies have now stopped -- and lifted their collective heads from the feeding trough.  They're well-fed -- fat, full and "surprised" by the government knife in their back.  "I thought we had a deal!" They all say that.



So, now they're squirming.  Twitching like a dying patient being administered some ghastly, lethal solution.  They're dropping people, switching things around... trying desperately to survive the tangled nightmare of The Affordable Healthcare Act.  The chaos is just beginning.  How long they have, who knows.  Once your employer drops your plan... you'll have a better idea of the timing.


Pretending this bill is anything else is lacking in sophistication and savvy.  "The Affordable Healthcare Act" is not about caring for sick people.  It's not about providing healthcare, much less "affordable healthcare."  This man is lying...

[Jason]

It's bad enough that the past few regimes had the young paying off "the Greatest Generation's" social security and now this regime will have the young paying off the Obamacare debt ad nauseam.

The baby boomers can't die soon enough. Those cocksuckers are the ones who started this mess...

[guitarfool2002]

The full effects of this will be felt when the details of this plan start hitting home, and folks like me who are content to pay their bills and premiums on time start receiving letters like the one I received in the mail. I went to sleep Monday having paid my premium for October, I woke up Tuesday to a letter telling me my plan was discontinued and now I'd need to shop around for other options.

Someone, please, tell me why I should be anything less than infuriated at this development?

Whatever you feel about the ideology surrounding this, just take a moment to see what happened in my case, and research just a bit more of what could be on the way for you and your family currently being covered by an insurance plan.

I knew this was coming, let's just say the letter was addressed to "BENEFITS MANAGER" above my name, and I've been informed of this kind of thing directly through that network.

But when you actually get a letter saying your coverage is being terminated, and you'll need to shop for another plan after being ASSURED and PROMISED  that this would not be something to worry about, it's like a punch in the gut.

Before you get a similar punch in the gut with your own benefits plan(s), and count on the fact that it's coming no matter how secure it seems to be in the present moment, get ready for it by asking loads of questions and demanding specific answers on what effect this will have on *you*.

It's fine to view it ideologically or theoretically in order to debate and discuss, but the bottom line is that these are financial decisions being made which will affect your life, and if you don't know what's coming, you'd better soon ask and find out so you can plan for it before you get a letter or a memo from your company's H.R. department delivering the news.

I'm just one out of apparently many small-business or independent business folks who received this same cancellation letter from the same health organization in the past few weeks in my area. And no one is "excited" about the changes. At least I expected the punch in the gut, but that doesn't make it any less painful if you know it's coming.

[Bean Bag]

Ultimately, that is the issue GuitarFool.  Sandbox regulars should hopefully be among the more aware -- and prepared, to the degree anyone can.

ObamaCare - Free HealthCare 4 Ever! Hip-hip...hooray!?

[guitarfool2002]

I'm suggesting that anyone reading this stuff here who is currently a member of a health insurance plan take the initiative and start asking questions about the effects this will have on their own insurance coverage. Whatever the ideology, whether you think this Affordable Care Act is terrific or terrible, make no mistake *it will affect you and your families directly* in the coming year.

I posted this originally out of personal frustration and to show specifically what happened to me personally. There are direct consequences to what is going on. I thought having paid up, and holding a plan I was content with paying for every month, I'd be able to continue renewing as I have for years and not worry about shopping around for a new plan as is happening this week. I was wrong. There is more to it than whichever ideological bent you see being expressed by the talking heads.

Ask the questions now. I'll repeat, if you are insured through an employer, go to the HR department and ask questions about what they see ahead for your specific coverage. If you, like me, are either a small business owner, an independent contractor, or someone who just buys their own insurance coverage through a group or an organization (or directly from an insurer), ask the questions now.

Keep in mind some of the effects have been delayed by presidential directives that somehow amended this law to exclude, exempt, and in the case of large businesses which employ larger numbers of workers, delayed for one year the implementation of this law...yet for individuals, such exemptions don't exist. Fair?

One of those potential effects is that if a worker has his/her family insured through an employer's coverage, and that employer decides to no longer cover the family members but only the worker actually employed at the company, the spouse may need to go to the "exchanges" to purchase their own coverage. And if they do attempt to purchase it, there may be a stipulation within the law that the spouse will *not* be eligible for any of the subsidies which are mentioned as a way to bring the individual costs down, due to that person's spouse being covered by their employer's insurance. Be prepared to adjust your budget, as a working couple with or without kids, should this happen. Set aside a few extra hundred every month to pay this, anywhere between 250-1,000 depending on coverage, as if it's that easy.

Which means, potentially, your monthly family budget will be affected if such a scenario should take effect.

And about that budget in general, in my situation, the comparable coverage which I now need to shop around for to replace my terminated plan will, in fact, be considerably more expensive based on the components and coverage levels of that plan than what I've been paying. In my case, it's again the exact opposite of what I was told when I heard this will bring down costs for individuals. It's just not true, take it from me as a person and not a statistic or poll.

There will be direct consequences of all this, and it will affect *you* directly. If folks in the near future find that changes have been made to what they thought was a stable health plan (like me on Monday), and those changes affect your weekly and monthly budget if not your bottom line in general (like me on Tuesday), don't be surprised when it happens, instead be prepared and get the specific facts now before you get punched in the gut, too.

[Jason]

Hopefully you guys can all see this; this is from the HealthCare.gov Facebook page. If the OP is being truthful this "Affordable Care Act" is diabolical.

[guitarfool2002]

That is one example out of many we'll be hearing about soon. Scary, isn't it? But now we can have a better idea of how and why the IRS is such a key player in administering this law. The IRS has the power to do just those things when someone doesn't pay their federal taxes. They can seize assets, including homes and bank accounts, and if you're being accused by the IRS you do not have the right to fight the accusations in front of a judge, as you would in a criminal or civil case.

Now let's address anyone who may be doubtful of that man's authenticity, or the accuracy of his story. Even if it turns out to be something other than real, or is fact-checked to reveal that's the case, look at the numbers. Those costs for such a plan, for such an individual are pretty much accurate to what these plans will cost.

The example is for a diabetic, income higher than what would qualify for the subsidy, second-to-lowest tier plan option through these exchanges would be around 600 dollars per month to carry that coverage.

That's about right - the lowest tier (bronze) is estimated to start at just over 200 dollars per month, give or take.

If you currently cannot afford or simply do not have insurance, and sign up for the lowest-tier coverage, let's average it out and say if you're around 30 you'll be paying somewhere around 250 or 300 a month in the higher cost areas.

You're now going to be mandated to sign up for such a plan. If you make in the neighborhood of under 40,000 annually and are single, you'll qualify for a subsidy from the government in the form of having a percentage of that cost taken out of your taxable federal income due on April 15.

What no one seems to be mentioning is whether it will be handled like a tax return, and processed as a tax return after you file with the IRS.

If that is the case, and you're 30 making about 35,000 a year and currently not insured, you had better prepare your finances and your budget to be able to pay that additional 250-300 and up per month for this lowest-tier coverage. Because your "discount", ostensibly coming through the IRS channels, will be handled like a tax return overpayment at the end of the year and not seen as a reduced monthly premium.

If I'm wrong, please correct. If I'm right, make sure your budget or salary each month is increased by at least 200 dollars if you're currently uninsured and signing up for this, or else the IRS will be on your case.

[Jason]

Gold and silver just became a very smart move, that's for sure. This ship's going down and it can't sink fast enough...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

"There is no right to health care???"

But I have to pay taxes, right?

f*** THAT!

We paid more for Iraq/Afghanistan in tax $$ then it would take to pay for whatever the hell bad turn our health might take from here on out.... There needs to be some payback! Healthy citizens make for healthy tax payers. It's like wanting your cake and also wanting to leave it out to spoil and gather flies.... IDIOCY!

As long as we as a people allow healthcare to be just one more source of corporate profit and allow our own health to be a mere commodity: WE WILL ONLY GET EXACTLY WHAT WE DESERVE!

Misplaced rage, man. It really is becoming THE problem on the street.

[Loaf]

"There is no right to health care???"

But I have to pay taxes, right?

f*** THAT!

We paid more for Iraq/Afghanistan in tax $$ then it would take to pay for whatever the hell bad turn our health might take from here on out.... There needs to be some payback! Healthy citizens make for healthy tax payers. It's wanting your cake and also wanting to leave it out to spoil and gather flies.... IDIOCY!

As long as we as a people allow healthcare to be just one more source of corporate profit and allow our own health to be a mere commodity: WE WILL ONLY GET EXACTLY WHAT WE DESERVE!

Misplaced rage, man. It really is becoming THE problem on the street.

Good post.

In the USA, there is a price for everything. Even things that you can't put a price on.

And i've said this before, but the USA is such an angry confused place.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

"There is no right to health care???"

But I have to pay taxes, right?

f*** THAT!

We paid more for Iraq/Afghanistan in tax $$ then it would take to pay for whatever the hell bad turn our health might take from here on out.... There needs to be some payback! Healthy citizens make for healthy tax payers. It's wanting your cake and also wanting to leave it out to spoil and gather flies.... IDIOCY!

As long as we as a people allow healthcare to be just one more source of corporate profit and allow our own health to be a mere commodity: WE WILL ONLY GET EXACTLY WHAT WE DESERVE!

Misplaced rage, man. It really is becoming THE problem on the street.

Good post.

In the USA, there is a price for everything. Even things that you can't put a price on.

And i've said this before, but the USA is such an angry confused place.

It's quite ironic that at our most savage: on the battlefield, Medics give aid not only to their own soldiers, but to civilians (whom they owe nothing to) and enemy survivors..... But put a bunch of us on our fat, smug, contented asses in a US City and all bets are off! ....

"No right to healthcare" .... That's quite an insult to all the humanitarian good work that's gone on through history in our undeserving name.

[Jason]

"There is no right to health care???"

But I have to pay taxes, right?

f*** THAT!

We paid more for Iraq/Afghanistan in tax $$ then it would take to pay for whatever the hell bad turn our health might take from here on out.... There needs to be some payback! Healthy citizens make for healthy tax payers. It's wanting your cake and also wanting to leave it out to spoil and gather flies.... IDIOCY!

As long as we as a people allow healthcare to be just one more source of corporate profit and allow our own health to be a mere commodity: WE WILL ONLY GET EXACTLY WHAT WE DESERVE!

Misplaced rage, man. It really is becoming THE problem on the street.

No one should have to pay taxes. You're preaching to the choir on the war issue. For some reason you seem to assume that since I don't support Obamacare that I supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you'd be wrong. Although if you're worried about health care being an issue of corporate profits, then Obamacare is about the best thing that could have happened since Obamacare is nothing more than a GIANT handout to the insurance companies.

But I stand behind the fact that there is no right to health care - you have a right to PURSUE health care as that is you exercising your right to liberty and property; you seek to acquire a good from someone selling. But health care as a "right" is an example of a positive right - it requires taking from one to give to another. It is an example of force and coercion. It is immoral and an infringement upon individual rights to life, liberty, and property.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

No, I don't assume a thing in regards to you supporting Iraq or not, I was making a standalone point....

And sure, man. You wanna believe there is no right to health care and that any/all related actions are a product being sold, that's your choice! Have fun with it!

healthcare is a giant opportunity for ingenuity of the highest caliber ...... but of course people would rather stroke their fetishistic fear of big bad words like socialism!!!!

"taking from one and giving to another" ...... Sure, if that's the way YOU choose to view it.

Once again: I come upon you at the bottom of some cliff where you've fallen hiking and you're gasping "help "help" ..... I can help but I pull out your wallet and you've no cash and I um, don't take credit cards.... Sorry, bro! Help yourself! ...... That is your reality, so I'd fully expect you to understand with no hard feelings.

[bluesno1fann]

wow that's a bad situation. I feel very sorry for you guys healthcare-wise.
Lucky for me, i've got it free, with no taxes. Let the good times roll 

[guitarfool2002]

We're getting into philosophical and theoretical differences now. That's fine, but how about sharpening that focus onto the actual events that are taking place around the Affordable Care Act?

These are things that are actually happening to people, real people. I'm one of them. As my correspondence from the insurer are addressed "Benefits Manager", I'm speaking direct from the source. It's not repeating and regurgitating talking points, or things heard on Sean Hannity's or Rachel Maddow's TV shows, it's coming from what's really going on.

That's the whole point. Take that initiative and find out what's happening to *you* as a result of this. How will it affect your own coverage, and your own finances? That's the big stuff. Whether or not someone agrees with the philosophy is getting away from the real consequences of all this that's going on.

If we'd rather focus on debating ideology, that's fine but it's not going to do a damn thing when you get that notice in the mail or from your employer telling you what's going to happen to your insurance. Or when you get your 2013 tax forms and find all kinds of new sections to fill out regarding your heath care. Or when you find out your current monthly budget of whatever it may be will need to be adjusted to add potentially hundreds of dollars to cover the individual mandate to carry health insurance.

Distractions take it further from what's going on. Look at the details and the effects to come from all of these changes. They will affect everyone.

I guarantee it.

[guitarfool2002]

And on those details, we're only scratching the surface. Was it Al Jolson who used to say "you ain't seen nothin' yet!"? Or am I thinking Bachman Turner Overdrive? 

Does anyone living in the US reading this thread use tobacco? Cigars, pipes, cigarettes, dip/snuff, Red Man, etc? Don't answer that.

Just make sure you get a fat wallet stuffed with a few extra hundred each month before you get your first bill for these coverage plans. More to come.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oh, I agree with both of you guys and I am digging into the details as we speak.... I just happen to think things/mentalities like "There is no right to healthcare" is just a way of conceding defeat! I mean, with that outlook all you can hope for is your health is in the hands or the Government or the "free" market..... And bitching does one's health no good as it is.

[Bean Bag]

We're getting into philosophical and theoretical differences now. That's fine, but how about sharpening that focus onto the actual events that are taking place around the Affordable Care Act?

These are things that are actually happening to people, real people. I'm one of them. As my correspondence from the insurer are addressed "Benefits Manager", I'm speaking direct from the source. It's not repeating and regurgitating talking points, or things heard on Sean Hannity's or Rachel Maddow's TV shows, it's coming from what's really going on.

That's the whole point. Take that initiative and find out what's happening to *you* as a result of this. How will it affect your own coverage, and your own finances? That's the big stuff. Whether or not someone agrees with the philosophy is getting away from the real consequences of all this that's going on.

If we'd rather focus on debating ideology, that's fine but it's not going to do a damn thing when you get that notice in the mail or from your employer telling you what's going to happen to your insurance. Or when you get your 2013 tax forms and find all kinds of new sections to fill out regarding your heath care. Or when you find out your current monthly budget of whatever it may be will need to be adjusted to add potentially hundreds of dollars to cover the individual mandate to carry health insurance.

Distractions take it further from what's going on. Look at the details and the effects to come from all of these changes. They will affect everyone.

I guarantee it.

Until it hits them PERSONALLY, most won't understand.  This was the intent of the thread I created last fall -- to share the realities of the theft WE WILL ALL GET.  I figured, it would be tough to argue reality (read that thread for a good chuckle).  But until they get theirs, they think it's about taking money from mythical evil corporations and "fat cats" and giving to the poor and needy.  Most people STILL THINK it's about healthcare.  It's a heist, folks.  A heist.  The shows over.  They made a copy of our vault... (if you're a fan of Oceans 11.)

It was ALWAYS about keeping people down and taking their sht.  That's what CRIMINALS do.  THEY TAKE PEOPLE'S SHT.  They never ask please, or say thank you -- and they sure as fck don't "spread the loot" and give it to others.  When have thieves ever shared the loot!?


You're not going to get that money back.  None of us are.  This brand of CRIMINAL is so depraved they even insult your intelligence while they do it.  They would steal your car and tell you "it's for affordable transportation, btch."  Azzholes.

The people that did this have a name.  They go by the name of "Democrats."  They've wanted this for a looong time.  The Republicans (save a few brave, good souls) have been lame, unable to muster anything to stop it.  But make no mistake, it is the Democrats.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

It's a heist for sure! It's pointless to split hairs over who's doing the stealing be it the big bad government, the evil corporations, or scumbag Obama, for they are all one and the same.

Bean, as long as you endlessly blame the Democrats and Liberals endlessly blame Republicans: you/they are part of the problem.... By blaming the Democrats, you are doing EXACTLY what they want you to be doing! "They" being both Democrats/Republicans, of course.

You are 100% correct, mind you, but if we don't get beyond the labels, we're f***ed.