New Jack Rieley Interview!

[runnersdialzero]

Speaking of Manson, aren't the writing credits on "Never Learn Not to Love" a lie?  

I kid!  I kid!

 

Never Learn Not To LLLLLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[runnersdialzero]

LLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[drbeachboy]

You people have no scruples if you think what Jack did was OK.

I do have scruples, but they're different to yours.

Someone tells a lie to get a job in a hospital and people end up dead - not good

Someone lies about not being on the sex offenders list and gets a job with children - doesn't bear thinking about

Someone lies about credentials. Gets job with top rock act, promises results which, are to a great extent achieved - fine by me.

That's bullcrap! Why not just tell the truth? Bet he probably thought he couldn't get hired unless he lied. Great premise to start off a working relationship; lie straight off to the people placing their trust in you.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

And, I'd be hard pressed to believe one who "inflated" his résume.  I find it a character flaw. Sorry, if that is harsh.

I'd only fault him if he hadn't gotten good results. He did, so who cares if he was full of sh*t in terms of credentials? I don't see what it really has to do with the music, anyway.

The question really is, would you really want to hire someone who lies about their credentials? While things certainly turned out OK in the short term, had he been inept, it could have been an entirely different story. Had I been Carl and found that out, I would have fired him on the spot.

And then you'd have deprived us of CATP, Holland, Mt Vernon & Fairway, In Concert, Ricky and Blondie and the groups most satisfying period as a live band. Fortunately, Carl and the Boys weren't so nauseatingly noble and were presumably prepared to overlook Rieley's alleged flaws. Or perhaps they didn't give a sh*t, and rightly so, because he got incredible results for the band and drastically improved their critical and commercial standing.
 

Let's put it like this, I hate "lies, and the lying liars that tell them", to quote a book title. I don't care what results he was able to attain. You are looking at this in hindsight, so it is fine to say what you posted here. What if he had been a guy like Manson? Also, if he lied about his credentials, what else was he capable of lying about? He could have stole money, etc. 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but are you indirectly comparing Jack Rieley to Charles Manson??

[Robbie Mac]

You people have no scruples if you think what Jack did was OK.

I do have scruples, but they're different to yours.

Someone tells a lie to get a job in a hospital and people end up dead - not good

Someone lies about not being on the sex offenders list and gets a job with children - doesn't bear thinking about

Someone lies about credentials. Gets job with top rock act, promises results which, are to a great extent achieved - fine by me.

That's bullcrap! Why not just tell the truth? Bet he probably thought he couldn't get hired unless he lied. Great premise to start off a working relationship; lie straight off to the people placing their trust in you.

Jack lied about his résumé, the Boys lied about being hippies.  I'd say they're even.

[Nicko1234]

He did a good job with their image and his lyrics (while nonsensical) were ambitious and they suited the music. He was a good influence on them in many ways.

Nonsensical?

Sure. You don't need me to give examples I guess as his talent for Jabberwockian gibberish was unparallelled.  But they work well with the songs imo.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I am a big fan of the Jack Rieley era. I believe the best thing about Jack was making Carl the official producer, and his lyrics. Moving the studio to a barn in Holland is a great story, and may have given them some inspiration, but for all practical purposes, not a good financial move unless they decided to move there permanantly. They all seemed to enjoy it at least except for Brian and Dennis.

Western Justice is also worth mentioning. I love it!

As for what Jack would have done in the Brian is Back era, probably would have pushed for songs like California Feelin, Good Timin, Several Dennis songs, etc, over the oldies. And may have come up with better lyrics, or push Mike and Brian to improve lyrics for Love You. Also, Adult Child woudve come out and meditators fired. But nothing gets done after that since Jack joins the Wilsons in drug addiction.

[drbeachboy]

And, I'd be hard pressed to believe one who "inflated" his résume.  I find it a character flaw. Sorry, if that is harsh.

I'd only fault him if he hadn't gotten good results. He did, so who cares if he was full of sh*t in terms of credentials? I don't see what it really has to do with the music, anyway.

The question really is, would you really want to hire someone who lies about their credentials? While things certainly turned out OK in the short term, had he been inept, it could have been an entirely different story. Had I been Carl and found that out, I would have fired him on the spot.

And then you'd have deprived us of CATP, Holland, Mt Vernon & Fairway, In Concert, Ricky and Blondie and the groups most satisfying period as a live band. Fortunately, Carl and the Boys weren't so nauseatingly noble and were presumably prepared to overlook Rieley's alleged flaws. Or perhaps they didn't give a sh*t, and rightly so, because he got incredible results for the band and drastically improved their critical and commercial standing.
 

Let's put it like this, I hate "lies, and the lying liars that tell them", to quote a book title. I don't care what results he was able to attain. You are looking at this in hindsight, so it is fine to say what you posted here. What if he had been a guy like Manson? Also, if he lied about his credentials, what else was he capable of lying about? He could have stole money, etc. 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but are you indirectly comparing Jack Rieley to Charles Manson??

Can you read? What i am saying is that when people have to lie about themselves, they often have something to hide. Just used Manson as an example.

[drbeachboy]

You people have no scruples if you think what Jack did was OK.

I do have scruples, but they're different to yours.

Someone tells a lie to get a job in a hospital and people end up dead - not good

Someone lies about not being on the sex offenders list and gets a job with children - doesn't bear thinking about

Someone lies about credentials. Gets job with top rock act, promises results which, are to a great extent achieved - fine by me.

That's bullcrap! Why not just tell the truth? Bet he probably thought he couldn't get hired unless he lied. Great premise to start off a working relationship; lie straight off to the people placing their trust in you.

Jack lied about his résumé, the Boys lied about being hippies.  I'd say they're even.

Well, I hope you never hire a somebody like a nanny or something and lies about their credentials, since you think that way. It doesn't matter what type of work you do, you need to be honest about it and not take advantage of someone else's ignorance.

[drbeachboy]

Believe me people, my favorite era is the Jack Reiley era. I have no issues with what he did to bring them back into popularity. My only issue is how went about getting their confidence. Had he been dishonest in other things, he also could have ruined them, financially and otherwise.

[ThyRavenAscend]

Oh you 'Make It Good'-doubters. It's a poetic gem!

I'll call your it's-a-poetic-gem, and raise you a it's-better-than-most-of-POB.

[bgas]

Believe me people, my favorite era is the Jack Reiley era. I have no issues with what he did to bring them back into popularity. My only issue is how went about getting their confidence. Had he been dishonest in other things, he also could have ruined them, financially and otherwise.

Now we're playing the "what-if" game.
What if he had managed to keep Brian  sober/off drugs, healthy and creatively top-tier, produicing 2 or 3 Billboard #1's year  after year?
What if he had kept Dennis from taking the wrong path, and he was still here, peaking creatively?

[drbeachboy]

Believe me people, my favorite era is the Jack Reiley era. I have no issues with what he did to bring them back into popularity. My only issue is how went about getting their confidence. Had he been dishonest in other things, he also could have ruined them, financially and otherwise.

Now we're playing the "what-if" game.
What if he had managed to keep Brian  sober/off drugs, healthy and creatively top-tier, produicing 2 or 3 Billboard #1's year  after year?
What if he had kept Dennis from taking the wrong path, and he was still here, peaking creatively?

Well, you have to admit that it is a lot of what we do here. What I said doesn't have to do with just Jack, it really applies to anyone and anytime.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

That's bullcrap!

It's not, it's just a different set of ethics. You're starting to annoy me now. I'm going to have to open a can of BergenWhiteMoustache on your sorry arse.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

And, I'd be hard pressed to believe one who "inflated" his résume.  I find it a character flaw. Sorry, if that is harsh.

I'd only fault him if he hadn't gotten good results. He did, so who cares if he was full of sh*t in terms of credentials? I don't see what it really has to do with the music, anyway.

The question really is, would you really want to hire someone who lies about their credentials? While things certainly turned out OK in the short term, had he been inept, it could have been an entirely different story. Had I been Carl and found that out, I would have fired him on the spot.

And then you'd have deprived us of CATP, Holland, Mt Vernon & Fairway, In Concert, Ricky and Blondie and the groups most satisfying period as a live band. Fortunately, Carl and the Boys weren't so nauseatingly noble and were presumably prepared to overlook Rieley's alleged flaws. Or perhaps they didn't give a sh*t, and rightly so, because he got incredible results for the band and drastically improved their critical and commercial standing.
 

Let's put it like this, I hate "lies, and the lying liars that tell them", to quote a book title. I don't care what results he was able to attain. You are looking at this in hindsight, so it is fine to say what you posted here. What if he had been a guy like Manson? Also, if he lied about his credentials, what else was he capable of lying about? He could have stole money, etc.  

Maybe I'm missing something here, but are you indirectly comparing Jack Rieley to Charles Manson??

Can you read? What i am saying is that when people have to lie about themselves, they often have something to hide. Just used Manson as an example.

Yeah I can read, hence I noticed the blatant implication in what you wrote. If you skim back through the posts following your post you'll noticed a few others picked up on it also.

Anyway, here's something which happened to me recently: I was sacked from my job (for something I didn't do). I went to the local employment tribunal service and explained what had happened and they told me it had been an unfair dismissal, no doubt about it. So I'm now taking legal action against my former employers (even if I had done what they said I'd done, it would've still been an unfair sacking because they didn't follow correct employment procedures).  In the meantime, I've had to find another job, and I'm pleased to say I have managed to do so - however, obviously it wouldn't look good if I were to have said I was sacked from my previous job (regardless of whether the sacking was against employment law) and so therefore I lied in my interview and said I'd left of my own accord. Well, I've now been at my new job for a month and it's going great!

So drbeachboy... was that lie not justified? Or should I have told the truth for the sake of being holier than thou even if it'd meant I wouldn't have got the job?

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Believe me people, my favorite era is the Jack Reiley era. I have no issues with what he did to bring them back into popularity. My only issue is how went about getting their confidence. Had he been dishonest in other things, he also could have ruined them, financially and otherwise.

"He could have ruined them..." Could have? You can't judge someone on something they didn't actually do and that didn't actually happen.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

In the meantime, I've had to find another job, and I'm pleased to say I have managed to do so - however, obviously it wouldn't look good if I were to have said I was sacked from my previous job (regardless of whether the sacking was against employment law) and so therefore I lied in my interview and said I'd left of my own accord. Well, I've now been at my new job for a month and it's going great!

Absolutely, and anyone with any sense would do the same.

Would I lie through my teeth to provide more for my family?

Do I have to answer this?

What I would never do though, is lie to hurt or destroy someone else and their career.

If it's not hurting anyone, then it's fine by me, that's my ethical code.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

In the meantime, I've had to find another job, and I'm pleased to say I have managed to do so - however, obviously it wouldn't look good if I were to have said I was sacked from my previous job (regardless of whether the sacking was against employment law) and so therefore I lied in my interview and said I'd left of my own accord. Well, I've now been at my new job for a month and it's going great!

Absolutely, and anyone with any sense would do the same.

Would I lie through my teeth to provide more for my family?

Do I have to answer this?

What I would never do though, is lie to hurt or destroy someone else and their career.

If it's not hurting anyone, then it's fine by me, that's my ethical code.

Exactly. And Jack Rieley lied so that he was able to be in a position to contribute considerably towards reviving the Beach Boys career/reputation, as a direct result of which we now have Surf's Up, CATP, Holland and In Concert to enjoy and savor. Quite frankly I think we should all be eternally kissing his arse for what he did, not endlessly berating him over a few porkies... 

[Smilin Ed H]

Let's put it like this, I hate "lies, and the lying liars that tell them",

So you never lie?

Liar!

I never said that, though, I never lied about my credentials when interviewing for jobs. You people have no scruples if you think what Jack did was OK. No matter the outcome, what he did was dishonest.

It was a dishonest way to get the job, but he did a great job once he had it; I don't see the problem here. As has been similarly said before, it's not like he was a serial killer; he simply inflated his credentials, then ran with it once getting the job.
It happens frewquently, i'm sure; then and now. while it's not "right", the results were good

Yes.

[drbeachboy]

That's bullcrap!

It's not, it's just a different set of ethics. You're starting to annoy me now. I'm going to have to open a can of BergenWhiteMoustache on your sorry arse.

But I'll miss you so much when you get your sorry ass banned. Also, that is not different ethics, that is no ethics. Remind me never to hire you for a job, but I bet you'd be great selling snake oil.

Let's be done with this. I hate arguing over something that happened 40 years ago and like most things that we argue over, means nothing.

[silodweller]

So what was this thread originally about?  A new interview in a magazine, you say?  Cool, cool...   

[Mike's Beard]

There's a fine line between being 'creative with the truth' and telling outright porkies. Jack was clearly doing the latter. To be honest I don't think he needed to pad his reseme to land the job anyway, the guys were probably impressed enough just by his enthusiasm and ideas. How does working for NBC and winning a Peabody make you more qualified to manage a rock band anyway?

[filledeplage]

There's a fine line between being 'creative with the truth' and telling outright porkies. Jack was clearly doing the latter. To be honest I don't think he needed to pad his reseme to land the job anyway, the guys were probably impressed enough just by his enthusiasm and ideas. How does working for NBC and winning a Peabody make you more qualified to manage a rock band anyway?

Mike's Beard - I agree that it is a fine line, as between the two.  How many wars have a lie as an underpinning? Or a false representation? It is just too much to find out that Ponzi schemes where people invested their life savings, and have to go back to work at 70, when you find out that the funding was an illusion.  Maybe the Internet demands more truth than the old days of typewriters and carbon paper.  

Maybe he has a gift as a motivator or coach, to people who have confidence issues, to spur them on.  That isn't a bad thing.  But, the entertainment industry had many charlatans/family/spouses who would send the actor or musician to work, and then loot the bank account.  And I'm not suggesting that Jack did that.  But the Wilsons' and the Boys were about 50/50 time wise, having old Murry and other managers, not to mention the whole "attribution" issues.  

So, now people look at the whole career which originated with many unscrupulous people in the music industry, who burned their artists, via lack of promotion (Capitol ) during the Beatles early era, or Pet Sounds being under promoted.  I guess for me, it is just another injustice.  (Thank God they stayed together to weather the storm.)  

And NBC was a major network of the Big Three.  One, CBS had a record division, so cred would be big to be associated with one of the Big Three, which includes ABC/Disney.  And, behind the door, the NBC backers were big, and connected.

So, I guess that people are just sick and tired of a lifetime of liars, whether a politician, or a church, or school.  And, now, have little indulgence for them.  Especially, with our musicians.  And hindsight being 20/20, which BRI member left?  The one who really did work for one of the Big Three.  When you look back, it is a classic business move.  Broom out the guy who knows the real "industry" work.

And that doesn't detract from whatever Jack could evoke, in terms of thinking about social topics (if that was Jack) but, my thinking is that, before Jack, that the whole social consciousness raising thing was already in progress, as a result of their travel and personal experiences.  And it does seem that Parks did work a lot on Sail on Sailor, and the lyrics are more "available" or tangible than his earlier BB work.  (Sorry for the digression.)

But, I'm with Southbay, drbeachboy and the others who take the position of full disclosure.  

[Disney Boy (1985)]

That's bullcrap!

It's not, it's just a different set of ethics. You're starting to annoy me now. I'm going to have to open a can of BergenWhiteMoustache on your sorry arse.

But I'll miss you so much when you get your sorry ass banned. Also, that is not different ethics, that is no ethics. Remind me never to hire you for a job, but I bet you'd be great selling snake oil.

Let's be done with this. I hate arguing over something that happened 40 years ago and like most things that we argue over, means nothing.

No don't leave it here, because you haven't answered the question I directly addressed to you at the end of my last but one post!

[If Mars had life on it...]

What did Jack do to get fired as manager?

Put me in the "who cares if he lied on his resume" camp.  Did anyone actually get hurt as a result?  The Reilly years Beach Boys are awesome!