POB AS A BEACH BOYS ALBUM!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

How about we pull the Mike-Bashing-Express into the station for a bit and do the kind of speculation I usually dislike:

What if The Beach Boys had given Dennis Brian-like control of the band in 1977 and this is what the results were?

The Beach Boys: Pacific Ocean Blue

Written/produced/played as we know it, but with vocal credits reading:

1 River Song: Lead vocal, Dennis, group
2. What's Wrong: Lead vocal, Mike/Dennis
3. Moonshine: Lead vocal, Carl
4. Friday Night: Lead vocal, Dennis/group
5. Dreamer: Lead vocal, Al (Dennis on bridge)
6. Thoughts Of You: Lead Vocal: Carl

7. Time: Lead Vocal, Carl, Dennis
8. You And I: Lead vocal, Carl
9. Pacific Ocean Blues: Lead vocal, Mike
10. Farewell My Friend: Lead vocal, Carl
11. Rainbows: Lead vocal, Al
12. End Of The Show: Lead vocal, Dennis, Carl, group

With Brian sprinkled in there.

Could have been THE late mid-period game changer in their career.

[The Shift]

You're forgetting the obligatory inclusion of Daybreak Over The Ocean!

But aye, if POB had been a Beach Boys release at the time the world we fans inhabit would be a very different place today. For starters I'm sure the album would have sold by the bucketload if it'd had the BBs' name attached. Secondly I think it might have been held in similar regard to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours album by the general record buying public - it wouldn't have produced the same batch if hit singles but it would have reaffirmed the band as a leading contemporary albums act... And ultimately driven forward a more creative future for the band.

… in my humble opinion…

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

You're forgetting the obligatory inclusion of Daybreak Over The Ocean!

But aye, if POB had been a Beach Boys release at the time the world we fans inhabit would be a very different place today. For starters I'm sure the album would have sold by the bucketload if it'd had the BBs' name attached. Secondly I think it might have been held in similar regard to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours album by the general record buying public - it wouldn't have produced the same batch if hit singles but it would have reaffirmed the band as a leading contemporary albums act... And ultimately driven forward a more creative future for the band.

… in my humble opinion…

Man, talk about a proper follow up to Holland!!!!

[SMiLE Brian]

Put some BW gems like Good Timin or California Feeling in there and you have a masterpiece.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Put some BW gems like Good Timin or California Feeling in there and you have a masterpiece.

Would those songs really fit on POB though??

[ontor pertawst]

How about we pull the Mike-Bashing-Express into the station for a bit and do the kind of speculation I usually dislike:

Yeah, but look at this article from Alternate Universe Billboard!



Mike Love 'Upset' Over Direction of Beach Boys Album, Tour

Singer says he and Dennis Wilson were "supposed to be allowed to get together to write songs from scratch like we did on 'Pacific Ocean Blues,' but that was never to be, and that wasn't because of me."

Though the Beach Boys are divided rather than conquering a year after their triumphant "15 Big Ones" tour, Mike Love is not ruling out the possibility of it happening again. But he has some stipulations.

"It depends, because the way it was run and the people who were running it I have serious issues with," Love -- who's currently leading his version of the Beach Boys with keyboardist Bruce Johnston -- tells Alternate Universe Billboard. "It will happen only if I can do it with people who I trusted and liked and were honorable. I have no problem with my cousin Dennis (Wilson) and I in a room with a piano, but it's not that uncomplicated."

Love doesn't get too specific about his issues with the consortium that managed the Beach Boys' tour, but he says one point of contention is that he feels plans for him to do some songwriting with Dennis Wilson were derailed as part of the process that led to the 1977 studio album "Pacific Ocean Blue."

"I talked to Dennis about a year before we even started doing any of the recording for (the album)," Love explains. "He and I talked about doing a project and he was excited about doing it, but it never came to fruition at all. It was given another direction -- not by me and not by Dennis but by others, by people like Gregg Jakobson. We were supposed to be allowed to get together to write songs from scratch like we did in the 'Pacific Ocean Blues,' but that was never to be, and that wasn't because of me. So I think there are issues related to that whole thing. It was great to be in the studio and listen to those harmonies coming back, but it wasn't the opportunity it was supposed to be, which I'm upset about."

Dennis Wilson says he'd still like to pursue some more writing with Brian Wilson, who's played some shows with original Beach Boys Al Jardine, Carl Wilson, and David Marks this summer. That might have to wait, however; Dennis Wilson has a new solo album coming this fall, as well as a tour with Jeff Beck.

We now return to reality.

[oldsurferdude]

 

[rab2591]

Imagine everything Pinder thought out, plus: Dennis and Brian team up to write lyrics for Holy Man. Brian arranges a wordless vocal harmony section for the tag. Dennis sings lead, Carl, Brian, Bruce, and Al do the backing vocals. A finished Holy Man becomes the song to end the record.

Record released: the Beach Boys become overnight sensations all over again. Work starts on a new album with Brian and Dennis collaborating on tunes. Brian and Dennis become music's hottest songwriters.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Imagine everything Pinder thought out, plus: Dennis and Brian team up to write lyrics for Holy Man. Brian arranges a wordless vocal harmony section for the tag. Dennis sings lead, Carl, Brian, Bruce, and Al do the backing vocals. A finished Holy Man becomes the song to end the record.

Record released: the Beach Boys become overnight sensations all over again. Work starts on a new album with Brian and Dennis collaborating on tunes. Brian and Dennis become music's hottest songwriters.

and OSD would still get to bash Mike forever and ever, so we'd all win

[Sheriff John Stone]

How about we pull the Mike-Bashing-Express into the station for a bit and do the kind of speculation I usually dislike:

What if The Beach Boys had given Dennis Brian-like control of the band in 1977 and this is what the results were?

The Beach Boys: Pacific Ocean Blue

Written/produced/played as we know it, but with vocal credits reading:

1 River Song: Lead vocal, Dennis, group
2. What's Wrong: Lead vocal, Mike/Dennis
3. Moonshine: Lead vocal, Carl
4. Friday Night: Lead vocal, Dennis/group
5. Dreamer: Lead vocal, Al (Dennis on bridge)
6. Thoughts Of You: Lead Vocal: Carl

7. Time: Lead Vocal, Carl, Dennis
8. You And I: Lead vocal, Carl
9. Pacific Ocean Blues: Lead vocal, Mike
10. Farewell My Friend: Lead vocal, Carl
11. Rainbows: Lead vocal, Al
12. End Of The Show: Lead vocal, Dennis, Carl, group

With Brian sprinkled in there.

Could have been THE late mid-period game changer in their career.

This was brought up on another recent thread, and I'll say the same thing here as I did there...Dennis' vocal on "Moonshine" and "Thoughts Of You" is irreplaceable. "Moonshine" and "Thoughts Of You" IS Dennis Wilson. You can feel his heart and soul in those songs. And on "End Of The Show".

There is no way I would've given Dennis Wilson control of anything, but the Beach Boys' voices on Pacific Ocean Blue would've been fascinating. I'll bet Brian could've handled "You And I".

[rab2591]

Carl on lead for 'Time' sounds great in my mind....wish he had actually recorded that.
______

So if I remember correctly, Carl actually helped with some vocals in River Song? A while back, when listening to POB, I could've sworn I heard Carl's voice in another song - but I could be mistaken.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Carl on lead for 'Time' sounds great in my mind....wish he had actually recorded that.
______

So if I remember correctly, Carl actually helped with some vocals in River Song? A while back, when listening to POB, I could've sworn I heard Carl's voice in another song - but I could be mistaken.

Actually, a 1976 Brian barking out Friday Night could've been fun!

[Don Malcolm]

Interesting idea, to be sure. From where I sit, if POB is a Beach Boys album then it should include "Tug of Love." A great song to showcase group vocals. Would've made a great B-side for "River Song."

"Holy Man" could have been on the follow-up LP.

[Eric Aniversario]

Carl on lead for 'Time' sounds great in my mind....wish he had actually recorded

Agreed!

On a related note, I enjoy Carl's very different song Time as well.

[The Shift]

Put some BW gems like Good Timin or California Feeling in there and you have a masterpiece.

Gotta disagree… he track list needs to stay as-is. Those tunes belong together. GT and CF have a very different vibe.

CaliFeeling especially, IMHO, needs fresh lyrics. Don't care much for them at all. The "Taste a grapefruit…" line, especially, destroys it for me.

[Nicko1234]

You're forgetting the obligatory inclusion of Daybreak Over The Ocean!

But aye, if POB had been a Beach Boys release at the time the world we fans inhabit would be a very different place today. For starters I'm sure the album would have sold by the bucketload if it'd had the BBs' name attached. Secondly I think it might have been held in similar regard to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours album by the general record buying public - it wouldn't have produced the same batch if hit singles but it would have reaffirmed the band as a leading contemporary albums act... And ultimately driven forward a more creative future for the band.

… in my humble opinion…

Honestly I think that might be pushing things...

Rumours had stacks of hit songs and even non-hits like The Chain are easily accessible. POB couldn't have had that.

Plus after fans were shafted by 15 Big Ones I'm not sure any album was going to sell bucketloads. The only commercial successes the groups had in the wilderness era were based on marketing ploys rather than quality of music.

[The Shift]

You're forgetting the obligatory inclusion of Daybreak Over The Ocean!

But aye, if POB had been a Beach Boys release at the time the world we fans inhabit would be a very different place today. For starters I'm sure the album would have sold by the bucketload if it'd had the BBs' name attached. Secondly I think it might have been held in similar regard to Fleetwood Mac's Rumours album by the general record buying public - it wouldn't have produced the same batch if hit singles but it would have reaffirmed the band as a leading contemporary albums act... And ultimately driven forward a more creative future for the band.

… in my humble opinion…

Honestly I think that might be pushing things...

Rumours had stacks of hit songs and even non-hits like The Chain are easily accessible. POB couldn't have had that.

Plus after fans were shafted by 15 Big Ones I'm not sure any album was going to sell bucketloads. The only commercial successes the groups had in the wilderness era were based on marketing ploys rather than quality of music.

Y're right of course.  I like PGTK's idea of it being a follow-up to Holland though - while we're in Fantasy Land we can pretend 15BOs never happened!

And yes, apart from River Song and maybe one other there wasn't a big potential hit single, but I think POB's legacy and strength is as an album, an exceptionally strong album at that.

The other area the theory starts to tumble though is the fact that the jukebox live act was underway by now… it'd need a bold band to start playing POB material live amongst all that.

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Put some BW gems like Good Timin or California Feeling in there and you have a masterpiece.

Gotta disagree… he track list needs to stay as-is. Those tunes belong together. GT and CF have a very different vibe.

CaliFeeling especially, IMHO, needs fresh lyrics. Don't care much for them at all. The "Taste a grapefruit…" line, especially, destroys it for me.

I could take 'Good Timin' on there...especially in light of the Dennis sung live version. California Feeling I just don't care for. You're right about the lyrics, and it just doesn't have any 'spark' to me- most Brian material up to a point you can TELL was written by him. CF, Back Home, couple of others...just sound workmanlike.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Put some BW gems like Good Timin or California Feeling in there and you have a masterpiece.

It already is a masterpiece.

[The Shift]

Put some BW gems like Good Timin or California Feeling in there and you have a masterpiece.

Gotta disagree… he track list needs to stay as-is. Those tunes belong together. GT and CF have a very different vibe.

CaliFeeling especially, IMHO, needs fresh lyrics. Don't care much for them at all. The "Taste a grapefruit…" line, especially, destroys it for me.

I could take 'Good Timin' on there...especially in light of the Dennis sung live version. California Feeling I just don't care for. You're right about the lyrics, and it just doesn't have any 'spark' to me- most Brian material up to a point you can TELL was written by him. CF, Back Home, couple of others...just sound workmanlike.

Good post. CF's backing vox are glorious but somehow out of place and intermittent.  Would love to hear them in isolation…   is it me, or have they been Brucified?

[Mike's Beard]

Most of POB sounds far too personal to Dennis to imagine any of the others taking leads on it. I do wish Dennis had snuck Mike into the studio to record the bass vocals for the title track though.

[Nicko1234]

Y're right of course.  I like PGTK's idea of it being a follow-up to Holland though - while we're in Fantasy Land we can pretend 15BOs never happened!

And yes, apart from River Song and maybe one other there wasn't a big potential hit single, but I think POB's legacy and strength is as an album, an exceptionally strong album at that.

The other area the theory starts to tumble though is the fact that the jukebox live act was underway by now… it'd need a bold band to start playing POB material live amongst all that.

Well I think any album released in 1976 would have been a hit for the group which makes it all the more frustrating that they decided to park the festering turd that is 15 Big Ones on the general public.

I don't think River Song sounds like a hit though. No chorus and not catchy enough.

[Matt Bielewicz]

CaliFeeling especially, IMHO, needs fresh lyrics. Don't care much for them at all. The "Taste a grapefruit…" line, especially, destroys it for me.

+1 for sure, John (as I believe the youff say these days). As I said to a friend the other day, "Taste a grapefruit from a... grapefruit tree"? What the hell ELSE are you going to taste from a grapefruit tree, a kumquat?

That line is soo, so bad. COMEDICALLY bad. It's ALAN PARTRIDGE bad. Actually, it is the kind of line I can imagine Steve Coogan coming up with for Tony Ferrino.

All this 'POB as BB album' speculation is interesting, but surely the group dynamics would NEVER have actually allowed it to happen in 1977 — at least any version of 1977 like the one that happened in this universe. Mike and Dennis's mutual hate was already high before POB was released (and practically insurmountable after, of course): surely Mike would never have submitted to working on a whole album of Dennis's stuff. He would have insisted on getting some of his tunes on there — and then it wouldn't have been POB any more.

Personally, I quite like the idea of a fantasy BB album from around 1977-8 that mixes up some of the best Dennis tunes of the era with some Brian stuff, and maybe Daybreak Over The Ocean from Mike to keep him happy. But then, I'm one of those people that aren't wild about all of Dennis's solo stuff, and find it most interesting when his sprawling rockist excesses were reined in by the more melodically inclined members of the band.

Could never have happened in real life, mind... and of course, it didn't!

[phirnis]

Glad it didn't happen that way. POB sounds like a definitive solo album in a way that even the most Brian-centric BB albums never did.

[Niko]

How about we pull the Mike-Bashing-Express into the station for a bit and do the kind of speculation I usually dislike:

NO. THE TRAIN RIDES ON
CHOO CHOO