Billboard ariticle on Mike and song writing w/ Brian issues from last album

[Nicko1234]

and Daybreak woudl have been a very possible casualty surely.

I know it's grim to contemplate a dark, alternate universe where Daybreak Over the Ocean isn't on the album... but dare to dream, sir!

And why exactly would Mike have wanted that?

[ontor pertawst]

I dunno, maybe in this dark alternate universe, he wrote a better song with the others and it smelled a lot more commercial and was less of an archival retread.

[Nicko1234]

I dunno, maybe in this dark alternate universe, he wrote a better song with the others and it smelled a lot more commercial and was less of an archival retread.

That makes more sense than many of your posts.

[ontor pertawst]

That makes more sense than many of your posts. 

I'm afraid the emoticon doesn't do much to dress up your feeble attempt at an insult, and I think we could all do without a round of pointless personal insults when we're already pointlessly discussing the seemingly pointless machinations of men in loud shirts.

Stick to the bald guy.

[Nicko1234]

That makes more sense than many of your posts. 

I'm afraid the emoticon doesn't do much to dress up your feeble attempt at an insult, and I think we could all do without a round of pointless personal insults when we're already pointlessly discussing the seemingly pointless machinations of men in loud shirts.

Stick to the bald guy.

Apologies if you took it that way. The emoticon WAS used as an attempt to emphasize that I was not being serious.

If you feel the thread is so pointless I'm not sure why you've made so many contributions to it though.

[ontor pertawst]

If you feel the thread is so pointless I'm not sure why you've made so many contributions to it though.

It may be the whole Beach Boys fan thing, Nicko1234. I might like to discuss their doings because I'm a fan. Thanks for apologizing and then slipping in one more little dig at the end, tho. That's pure class! Still totally distracting from the topic, suddenly it's about the confusing nature of my posts and why I've made so many contributions to this thread.

...and not about Mike Love and his fairly hard to defend idiocies. All I claimed was that if Mike tried to work with the other band members or stuck up for their input and group effort, it sure would've come off a lot more sympathetic now in the press as he railed against those shadowy forces around Brian Wilson keeping him from getting more song credits. It's not a particularly controversial comment.

[Nicko1234]

It may be the whole Beach Boys fan thing, Nicko1234. I might like to discuss their doings because I'm a fan. Thanks for apologizing and then slipping in one more little dig at the end, tho. That's pure class! Still totally distracting from the topic, suddenly it's about the confusing nature of my posts and why I've made so many contributions to this thread.

...and not about Mike Love and his fairly hard to defend idiocies. All I claimed was that if Mike tried to work with the other band members, it sure would've come off a lot more sympathetic now in the press as he railed against those shadowy forces around Brian Wilson keeping him from getting more song credits. It's not a particularly controversial comment.

OK. It wasn't a dig though just a simple question.

I don't think your stance is controversial at all. I just don't think it is realistic. If Mike had fought for Al's and Bruce's songs to appear on the album then there would have been less room for songs with a Mike writing credit. It certainly wouldn't have made it more likely for Brian to want to write together alone with him (something I'm not sure Brian does with many collaborators any more). And obviously Mike wouldn't have done it so that at some point in the future he could have looked good in the press.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Giving Mike the benefit of the doubt, I believe his desire to write with Brian is an honorable one. He wants to return to the beginning -- to the days of Surfin' Safari, All Summer Long, and Today! -- and complete the circle with a final batch of Wilson/Love songs that would equal the early/mid-sixties classics. That's an admirable (if unlikely to be realized) ambition.

Speculating here, but from Mike's perspective he and Brian had a great thing going. But starting really with Tony Asher and continuing with Van Dyke Parks -- and now with Joe Thomas -- some outsider is always getting in the way. All you need for more records as good as  'California Girls' and 'Fun, Fun, Fun' is to put Mike and Brian in a room with a piano ( or so I speculate that Mike believes). They did it once, why not again?

In Mike's mind, the creative wellspring of the Beach Boys has always been him and Brian. I think he's wrong, it's always been just Brian, but it's hard for me to blame Mike for thinking otherwise. Everyone has an ego, no?

So, the final upshot is : TWGMTR will be the final Beach Boys album. Mike will continue to play his gigs for a few more years, until he gets too old, and Brian will release solo lps that might have been Beach Boys ones.

I'm sorry, but the statement: the creative wellspring of The Beach Boys has always just been Brian is painfully ignorant and I bet Brian would agree with me.

"Wellspring" : the source of a spring or stream; the fountainhead.

Brian initiated the songs. He wrote the music, co-wrote the lyrics. Produced the records. Arranged them. Decided which songs Mike Love, or Jan Berry, or Gary Usher, or Roger Christian, or whoever, would contribute lyrics to. It all flowed from Brian.

Is this all misinformation? Not only just ignorant, but "painfully ignorant'?

It's the "always just Brian" part I disagree with..... It was Brian plus collaborators and band mates. Bands are organic things and post 67 it was never again just Brian (excepting Love You) .... If Brian could have had advanced enough technology in 1961 to record/sing all the parts himself and then go tour the world all by himself, then it would have always just been Brian.... Then again, if it had always just been Brian there would be no Beach Boys...

[drbeachboy]

No, his point seems to be that it's ironic Mike Love is complaining about not getting enough songwriting credits when he prevented others from getting songwriting credits. He seems to be enjoying it enough to say what goes around comes around twice.

You're not processing that part because it reflects poorly on Mike Love. It might be absolute bullshit for all we know, but the guy IS making a point you're not registering. Or pretending not to.

We know that is not the whole story and you know it. Brian was just as responsible for Waves of Love not being included. I wouldn't doubt he had something to do with Bruce's song, as well. Brian went into this album full steam. Even had most of the material written and recorded before the guys came in to sing. You can't lay that on Mike's lap. Plus, is Larry really gonna call out Brian with Al touring with him? Come on, think!

[ontor pertawst]

Who knows, it could all be absolute bullshit. All I know is here's yet another person who feels wronged by Mike Love! Arriving after yet another lousy Mike Love interview and round of bad press.

You should tell him that Brian is just as responsible on Facebook and see what he says. It's not my fault!

Altho, honestly -- f*** Clear Channel and it's miserable CEO. He can go cram a million units up his first quarter earnings.

[drbeachboy]

Who knows, it could all be absolute bullshit. All I know is here's yet another person who feels wronged by Mike Love!

You should tell him that Brian is just as responsible on Facebook and see what he says. It's not my fault!

Personally, I could care less. Al already released it anyway. This is the Internet. People write bullshit all over the place. Just look at how much unsubstantiated stuff gets posted here. At this point it is only his opinion. He hasn't backed up that claim in any way to believe it is totally true. 

[b00ts]

and Daybreak woudl have been a very possible casualty surely.

I know it's grim to contemplate a dark, alternate universe where Daybreak Over the Ocean isn't on the album... but dare to dream, sir!

It may not have set the world on fire, but for my money, "Daybreak" is not a bad song. I enjoy it enough that I usually don't skip it when listening through TWGMTR.

"Beaches in Mind," however, is utter middle-of-the-road trash. It attempts to skate by on its meager charms and inoffensiveness, but it sounds like Brian banged out three or four chords and called it a day. There is nothing special about this song, and I will wager that anyone on this board - musically inclined or not - could easily write a song like this within five minutes.

I would have preferred "Waves of Love" - it is also a bit bland, but at least it has a few decent melodic tricks up its sleeve, and clearly some sort of inspiration went into its creation. 

My best guess is that "Waves of Love" was rejected because 1) Brian wasn't comfortable with a Carl lead on the album, 2) It bears more than a passing resemblance to "Bye Bye Love" and "You're My Best Friend," 3) As implied earlier in this thread, Mike wanted a co-wrote with Brian, and that's why we got "Beaches in Mind" instead of something decent.

If we take "Beaches in Mind" as evidence - perhaps the most uninspired and mediocre tune to ever be credited to B. Wilson - it doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the abilities of Brian and Mike working together. Take your pick - shitty, middle of the road music, crappy lyrics.. It just sucks.

"Daybreak" stands head-and-shoulders above "BIM," as does "Cool Head, Warm Heart."  Both co-written by Mike Love, and neither of which involve B. Wilson. So, Mike should just write new material with Paul Fauerso or whomever...

The Wilson-Love ship sailed years ago for myriad reasons, including Brian's disinterest in writing with Mike, and Mike's uncanny ability to lapse into anachronistic, wrongheadedly "commercial" lyrics whenever he is writing for the Beach Boys.

[clack]

Giving Mike the benefit of the doubt, I believe his desire to write with Brian is an honorable one. He wants to return to the beginning -- to the days of Surfin' Safari, All Summer Long, and Today! -- and complete the circle with a final batch of Wilson/Love songs that would equal the early/mid-sixties classics. That's an admirable (if unlikely to be realized) ambition.

Speculating here, but from Mike's perspective he and Brian had a great thing going. But starting really with Tony Asher and continuing with Van Dyke Parks -- and now with Joe Thomas -- some outsider is always getting in the way. All you need for more records as good as  'California Girls' and 'Fun, Fun, Fun' is to put Mike and Brian in a room with a piano ( or so I speculate that Mike believes). They did it once, why not again?

In Mike's mind, the creative wellspring of the Beach Boys has always been him and Brian. I think he's wrong, it's always been just Brian, but it's hard for me to blame Mike for thinking otherwise. Everyone has an ego, no?

So, the final upshot is : TWGMTR will be the final Beach Boys album. Mike will continue to play his gigs for a few more years, until he gets too old, and Brian will release solo lps that might have been Beach Boys ones.

I'm sorry, but the statement: the creative wellspring of The Beach Boys has always just been Brian is painfully ignorant and I bet Brian would agree with me.

"Wellspring" : the source of a spring or stream; the fountainhead.

Brian initiated the songs. He wrote the music, co-wrote the lyrics. Produced the records. Arranged them. Decided which songs Mike Love, or Jan Berry, or Gary Usher, or Roger Christian, or whoever, would contribute lyrics to. It all flowed from Brian.

Is this all misinformation? Not only just ignorant, but "painfully ignorant'?

It's the "always just Brian" part I disagree with..... It was Brian plus collaborators and band mates. Bands are organic things and post 67 it was never again just Brian (excepting Love You) .... If Brian could have had advanced enough technology in 1961 to record/sing all the parts himself and then go tour the world all by himself, then it would have always just been Brian.... Then again, if it had always just been Brian there would be no Beach Boys...

Ok, some misunderstanding going on.

I said that Brian was the sole creative wellspring of the music back in the heyday of the Wilson/Love songwriting (1962-65). I mean that the music  began with Brian, not that it began and ended with him. I listed some of his songwriting collaborators -- I could go on to list the studio musicians, the recording engineers, not to mention the other band members, all of whom contributed to the finished product. But everyone here already knows all this.

My point is, if Mike wants to go back to how things were done in the glory years, which his recent interviews (the Guardian one especially) seem to imply, then this would not[/i involve Mike and Brian sitting around a piano, creative equals, writing an album from scratch. Maybe it would involve a song or 2 written together from scratch, but mostly it would involve Brian coming up with a melody, then a basic track, maybe the lyrics to the chorus, then asking Mike or Usher or Christian or Asher or Parks to work with him on the lyrics.

Mike wants to return to a past that never was.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

One question: does anyone REALLY think The Brian Wilson Corporation desires to work with Mike Love till the cows come home? ...... I know it's easy to blame Mike because he can't shut up, but think about it ..... We're all upset at him for "firing Brian, Al, Dave, holding Bruce in indentured servitude" etc etc...... but who would likely have been the one getting his walking papers if things had gone as planned ........ ?

[ontor pertawst]

One question: does anyone REALLY think The Brian Wilson Corporation desires to work with Mike Love till the cows come home?

No, but for a few months he sure sounded like he wanted to record more Beach Boys albums and had Capitol's support. He seems pretty ok with Plan B, it's Mike Love grousing about 2012 now.

but who would likely have been the one getting his walking papers if things had gone as planned ........ ?

Al. Definitely Al.

SPLITTER!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

From my understanding: the Velvet Underground reunion ended in a way similar to this only no one was all that pissed....

Sterling Morrison bailed due to Lou's label (Sire Records) running the show and no one from the label would even look at any member of the band other than Lou, let alone address them or speak to them... Sterling hid out on his tugboat while Lou sent reams of faxes that varied from threatening to pleading.... Something like that. I know Maureen and John were annoyed as much as Sterl, but he was the only one who took action..... So, this sort of thing is not unprecedented.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

[ontor pertawst]

Yep, that's about right. Bad feelings all around and they still get tetchy about it. Lou wanted to be sole producer on the MTV Unplugged album or somesuch.

Lou Reed and Mike Love definitely have a lot of things in common besides nasality! Imagine the two of them stuck in an elevator.

Still, the initial thing that led to the VU reunion is kind of neat. I quite like Songs for Drella, certainly better songwriting than "Coyote."

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yep, that's about right. Bad feelings all around and they still get tetchy about it. Lou wanted to be sole producer on the MTV Unplugged album or somesuch.

Lou Reed and Mike Love definitely have a lot of things in common besides nasality! Imagine the two of them stuck in an elevator.

Still, the initial thing that led to the VU reunion is kind of neat. I quite like Songs for Drella, certainly better songwriting than "Coyote."

Songs For Drella is a classic. John and Lou work very well together. Sad it can never last.

I actually used to know Lou's housekeeper in New York. She claims that John was at the house one night and he and Lou got in some huge argument unrelated to music or anything and she says John stopped on his way out and told her "I will never work with that man again" !!!!   This was before the VU reunion, mind you....

She actually said Lou is a really sweet guy and means well, but has serious paranoia issues. She worked for him for several years and said he was never anything but great to her. This was when he was married to Silvia and she said if they'd have more than a few people over for dinner, after about so much of it, Lou would take his plate with him into another room and sit and eat by himself because he'd start worrying people were conspiring against him..... Sad really.

[Cam Mott]

Wow, Mike is damned if he does and damned if he don't. I hope the status quo is preserved and everything is nuanced to keep Brian the victim and Mike the asshole. 

[Lowbacca]

Yep, that's about right. Bad feelings all around and they still get tetchy about it. Lou wanted to be sole producer on the MTV Unplugged album or somesuch.

Lou Reed and Mike Love definitely have a lot of things in common besides nasality! Imagine the two of them stuck in an elevator.

Still, the initial thing that led to the VU reunion is kind of neat. I quite like Songs for Drella, certainly better songwriting than "Coyote."

Songs For Drella is a classic. John and Lou work very well together. Sad it can never last.

Totally off-topic, but yeah: I love that album.

[ontor pertawst]

Wow, Mike is damned if he does and damned if he don't. I hope the status quo is preserved and everything is nuanced to keep Brian the victim and Mike the asshole.  

Don't worry, Mike will keep giving interviews.

I'm liking all this love for Drella. The last few times I mentioned it online or in person, I got a load of venom! How can you not love lines like "he lived alone with his mother, collecting gossip and toys."

Common ground at last! Now back to arguing. GRRR!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Wow, Mike is damned if he does and damned if he don't. I hope the status quo is preserved and everything is nuanced to keep Brian the victim and Mike the asshole.  

Don't worry, Mike will keep giving interviews.

I'm liking all this love for Drella. The last few times I mentioned it online or in person, I got a load of venom! How can you not love lines like "he lived alone with his mother, collecting gossip and toys."

Common ground at last! Now back to arguing. GRRR!

It's a Czechoslovakian custom my mother passed on to me" .......

[Lowbacca]

Wow, Mike is damned if he does and damned if he don't. I hope the status quo is preserved and everything is nuanced to keep Brian the victim and Mike the asshole.  

Don't worry, Mike will keep giving interviews.

I'm liking all this love for Drella. The last few times I mentioned it online or in person, I got a load of venom! How can you not love lines like "he lived alone with his mother, collecting gossip and toys."

Common ground at last! Now back to arguing. GRRR!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-a5UKVoZpY

 

[Shady]

I think Mike is hurting, he loves his cousin Brian and we know he's just a sentimental sap.

Key word, 'mental'

[mikeddonn]

Just give Mike some doooooooooooooooos!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wZBQCWwAp9I