I think I can understand why Brian might not wanna write much with Mike...

[JohnMill]

He sued his writing partner twice

By my count, he sued Brian Wilson three times.  One was 100% legitimate, one was 95% legitimate, and the third was 0% legitimate.

I'm trying to remember but in the case where Mike Love sued Brian Wilson over those infamous song credits, didn't he first try to approach Wilson privately and try to work out a settlement without having to take him to court?  I believe Mike Love only went to court when he and Wilson couldn't work out an equatable settlement between the two of them as to what Mike was actually owed for his songwriting contributions.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

He sued his writing partner twice

By my count, he sued Brian Wilson three times.  One was 100% legitimate, one was 95% legitimate, and the third was 0% legitimate.

I'm trying to remember but in the case where Mike Love sued Brian Wilson over those infamous song credits, didn't he first try to approach Wilson privately and try to work out a settlement without having to take him to court?  I believe Mike Love only went to court when he and Wilson couldn't work out an equatable settlement between the two of them as to what Mike was actually owed for his songwriting contributions.

I'm not sure about the details of the case, but that's the one I was referring to as 95% legitimate, since it's generally accepted that ML did not contribute enough to "Wouldn't it Be Nice" to merit the songwriting credit that he got as a result of the case, but that the main effect was that it awarded him lots of songwriting credits that he actually deserves.

[Cam Mott]

He sued his writing partner twice

By my count, he sued Brian Wilson three times.  One was 100% legitimate, one was 95% legitimate, and the third was 0% legitimate.

I'm trying to remember but in the case where Mike Love sued Brian Wilson over those infamous song credits, didn't he first try to approach Wilson privately and try to work out a settlement without having to take him to court?  I believe Mike Love only went to court when he and Wilson couldn't work out an equatable settlement between the two of them as to what Mike was actually owed for his songwriting contributions.

I'm not sure about the details of the case, but that's the one I was referring to as 95% legitimate, since it's generally accepted that ML did not contribute enough to "Wouldn't it Be Nice" to merit the songwriting credit that he got as a result of the case, but that the main effect was that it awarded him lots of songwriting credits that he actually deserves.

As I remember the suit was expected to possibly amount to millions of dollars. Mike offered to settle for his due credit and $750,000. Brian's team hadn't taken it. Brian admitted in court Mike was owed credit and money.  The jury found in favor of Mike and set the formula for the amount of credit Mike would get on which songs and the compensation in the millions.

[Jim V.]

He sued his writing partner twice

By my count, he sued Brian Wilson three times.  One was 100% legitimate, one was 95% legitimate, and the third was 0% legitimate.

I'm trying to remember but in the case where Mike Love sued Brian Wilson over those infamous song credits, didn't he first try to approach Wilson privately and try to work out a settlement without having to take him to court?  I believe Mike Love only went to court when he and Wilson couldn't work out an equatable settlement between the two of them as to what Mike was actually owed for his songwriting contributions.

I'm not sure about the details of the case, but that's the one I was referring to as 95% legitimate, since it's generally accepted that ML did not contribute enough to "Wouldn't it Be Nice" to merit the songwriting credit that he got as a result of the case, but that the main effect was that it awarded him lots of songwriting credits that he actually deserves.

As I remember the suit was expected to possibly amount to millions of dollars. Mike offered to settle for his due credit and $750,000. Brian's team hadn't taken it. Brian admitted in court Mike was owed credit and money.  The jury found in favor of Mike and set the formula for the amount of credit Mike would get on which songs and the compensation in the millions.

Do you think Mike deserves credit for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" Cam?

[Cam Mott]

I don't know what credit Mike claimed and as far as I know what credit Mike supposedly claimed or is entitled to is just fan conjecture. I didn't hear the evidence but the jury did and they awarded credit.

Fans really get hung up on the WIBN credit. If one feels Mike doesn't deserve any credit for WIBN, maybe you could consider calling it equal for 30+ years of being cheated. Just a thought. If Mike had been a partner in the publishing and he and Murry [IF Murry was involved in the under-reporting] cheated Brian for 30+ years [with only Mike as a coauthor profiting from under reported co-authorship] and Brian finally won his day in court, would we be carping over whether he deserved what he got on one song?

[Jim V.]

I don't know what credit Mike claimed and as far as I know what credit Mike supposedly claimed or is entitled to is just fan conjecture. I didn't hear the evidence but the jury did and they awarded credit.

Fans really get hung up on the WIBN credit. If one feels Mike doesn't deserve any credit for WIBN, maybe you could consider calling it equal for 30+ years of being cheated. Just a thought. If Mike had been a partner in the publishing and he and Murry [IF Murry was involved in the under-reporting] cheated Brian for 30+ years [with only Mike as a coauthor profiting from under reported co-authorship] and Brian finally won his day in court, would we be carping over whether he deserved what he got on one song?

It was just a question. Don't know why you had to write that whole long essay. Do you doubt Tony Asher's claims that Mike had f***-all to do with the song?

What it seems like to me is that it is impossible for you to acknowledge that Mike Love has ever acted improperly, claimed credit that he may not have deserved, beat his wife, or anything else.

I can acknowledge Brian has screwed up quite a bit, trying to give heroin to his child, asking his kids bus driver for a cigarette, etc.

And personally, I don't think it is right to give somebody songwriting credit for a song they didn't write. It just obfuscates the truth. When I see Elvis Presley's name as a writer on some of his hits, I figure he wrote them. Then I come to find out it was just legal wrangling that got those credits. Kinda lame! All the same with a classic like "Wouldn't It Be Nice". Mike was in Japan (?) when it was composed and Asher made it quite clear that he had nothing to do with it.

[Cam Mott]

I don't mind it was no bother.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve Tony Asher. Did he testify in the trial? On the other hand, I don't have any reason to disbelieve the jury's judgment.

How do you feel about a writer not getting his due credit on a song? Say if someone doubly responsible cheated them.

[SMiLE Brian]

A lot of those lawsuit credits are sketchy, what were the song credits Mike wanted out of court before he sued Brian?

[Jim V.]

And just to be clear, anything that Mike actually wrote, he deserves credit for, obviously.

[Cam Mott]

A lot of those lawsuit credits are sketchy, what were the song credits Mike wanted out of court before he sued Brian?

More songs than awarded as I remember.

People say sketchy but what is that based on? Mike presented evidence in court for his claims and he only claimed credit for what he contributed. As I understand it Mike didn't claim any sort of percentage credit and he didn't specify any dollar amounts for his credit. If you feel he was over credited or compensated, it would be on the jury [and Brian's team].

Does anyone know if Mike was ever actually paid the judgment, at one time years after the suit it was being claimed Mike had not been paid? Well, one guy BE claiming he had seen evidence of it anyway. Edit: actually I think the claim was Brian had not paid Mike. I'm still not clear on whether it was Brian who was responsible to pay Mike or if it was Irving Music who was supposed to pay.

[KittyKat]

Asher wasn't in the studio when the "goodnight, sleep tight" part was added. It's pretty obviously a studio ad-lib and probably not something that Asher and Wilson wrote around the piano. I'm not sure how much song-writing credit, if any, Mike deserves for that minor vocal addition. There are people who have been ripped off of songwriting credits for larger songwriting additions than that.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Asher wasn't in the studio when the "goodnight, sleep tight" part was added. It's pretty obviously a studio ad-lib and probably not something that Asher and Wilson wrote around the piano. I'm not sure how much song-writing credit, if any, Mike deserves for that minor vocal addition. There are people who have been ripped off of songwriting credits for larger songwriting additions than that.

Minor vocal ad-lib or not, it's a part of the lyrics forever and ever. I don't think Mike's claimed to have written anymore of the song than that, but now his name's on there. Why does anyone care? And yes, lots of other people have been screwed out of credit for more and that sucks. They should maybe try and do something about it.

Was Mike being a greedy asshole for wrangling this credit? Maybe. Then again, the evidence is there on record with him singing, so why lose sleep over it?

[Jim V.]

Asher wasn't in the studio when the "goodnight, sleep tight" part was added. It's pretty obviously a studio ad-lib and probably not something that Asher and Wilson wrote around the piano. I'm not sure how much song-writing credit, if any, Mike deserves for that minor vocal addition. There are people who have been ripped off of songwriting credits for larger songwriting additions than that.

Minor vocal ad-lib or not, it's a part of the lyrics forever and ever. I don't think Mike's claimed to have written anymore of the song than that, but now his name's on there. Why does anyone care? And yes, lots of other people have been screwed out of credit for more and that sucks. They should maybe try and do something about it.

Was Mike being a greedy asshole for wrangling this credit? Maybe. Then again, the evidence is there on record with him singing, so why lose sleep over it?

My thing was more about seeing if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before. I'm not sure he's capable of it.

And about "Wouldn't It Be Nice", I'm pretty sure Tony Asher recalled something like Mike's lawyer asking him if it was possible that while Brian was away for a minute or two during their writing sessions, he may have called Mike Love to ask for help with the lyrics. Mike's lawyer actually posited that claim. And apparently Asher was so dumbfounded by that question that I'm pretty sure he said something about how it is within the realm of possibility, but that there is like no chance that this was what actually happened.

[leggo of my ego]

 I think I can understand why Brian might not wanna write much with Mike because Mr. Ad-Lib is a stinker! 

[Rocky Raccoon]

Something interesting was that Mike probably never cared about whether or not he was seen as a cowriter.  I was watching the "Good Vibrations Tour" DVD and Mike introduces "It's OK" as a song by Brian Wilson.  I think it had to do with the anger after the Landy debacle and Brian's autobiography all but villifying him that Mike felt he deserved a little something after putting up with all that.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Asher wasn't in the studio when the "goodnight, sleep tight" part was added. It's pretty obviously a studio ad-lib and probably not something that Asher and Wilson wrote around the piano. I'm not sure how much song-writing credit, if any, Mike deserves for that minor vocal addition. There are people who have been ripped off of songwriting credits for larger songwriting additions than that.

Minor vocal ad-lib or not, it's a part of the lyrics forever and ever. I don't think Mike's claimed to have written anymore of the song than that, but now his name's on there. Why does anyone care? And yes, lots of other people have been screwed out of credit for more and that sucks. They should maybe try and do something about it.



Was Mike being a greedy asshole for wrangling this credit? Maybe. Then again, the evidence is there on record with him singing, so why lose sleep over it?

My thing was more about seeing if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before. I'm not sure he's capable of it.

And about "Wouldn't It Be Nice", I'm pretty sure Tony Asher recalled something like Mike's lawyer asking him if it was possible that while Brian was away for a minute or two during their writing sessions, he may have called Mike Love to ask for help with the lyrics. Mike's lawyer actually posited that claim. And apparently Asher was so dumbfounded by that question that I'm pretty sure he said something about how it is within the realm of possibility, but that there is like no chance that this was what actually happened.

But why should he have to admit that? It really means little to anyone aside from Mike H____s!

I don't think Cam would deny Mike has ever done any wrong (all Beach Boys have done wrong) but rather, is it going to fill him with inner rage and ruin his experience with his favorite band? That is the question....Rock stars are hardly the most selfless people. Get over it because it's a pandora's box out there of awful behavior by many many such people, and if you're going to excuse everyone else and keep slamming Mike, it just comes off at pathalogical after a while.

[Cam Mott]

Asher wasn't in the studio when the "goodnight, sleep tight" part was added. It's pretty obviously a studio ad-lib and probably not something that Asher and Wilson wrote around the piano. I'm not sure how much song-writing credit, if any, Mike deserves for that minor vocal addition. There are people who have been ripped off of songwriting credits for larger songwriting additions than that.

Minor vocal ad-lib or not, it's a part of the lyrics forever and ever. I don't think Mike's claimed to have written anymore of the song than that, but now his name's on there. Why does anyone care? And yes, lots of other people have been screwed out of credit for more and that sucks. They should maybe try and do something about it.

Was Mike being a greedy asshole for wrangling this credit? Maybe. Then again, the evidence is there on record with him singing, so why lose sleep over it?

My thing was more about seeing if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before. I'm not sure he's capable of it.

And about "Wouldn't It Be Nice", I'm pretty sure Tony Asher recalled something like Mike's lawyer asking him if it was possible that while Brian was away for a minute or two during their writing sessions, he may have called Mike Love to ask for help with the lyrics. Mike's lawyer actually posited that claim. And apparently Asher was so dumbfounded by that question that I'm pretty sure he said something about how it is within the realm of possibility, but that there is like no chance that this was what actually happened.

Brian knew it was happening and knew it was wrong and has said so yet he just let it be and Mike had to make it right. After Mike had brought it up with Brian back in the day and Brian admitted it and promised to make it right and then didn't, I think Mike made a mistake by not sticking up for rights 30 years earlier than he did. Better late than never I guess.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I guess he should also credit the session piano player on "I'm Waiting for the Day" for co-writing that song too.

[Doo Dah]

Oh yeah. It's a slippery slope when you consider how session musicians suggest riffs or leads that can make or break a memorable song.

[Jim V.]

Asher wasn't in the studio when the "goodnight, sleep tight" part was added. It's pretty obviously a studio ad-lib and probably not something that Asher and Wilson wrote around the piano. I'm not sure how much song-writing credit, if any, Mike deserves for that minor vocal addition. There are people who have been ripped off of songwriting credits for larger songwriting additions than that.

Minor vocal ad-lib or not, it's a part of the lyrics forever and ever. I don't think Mike's claimed to have written anymore of the song than that, but now his name's on there. Why does anyone care? And yes, lots of other people have been screwed out of credit for more and that sucks. They should maybe try and do something about it.

Was Mike being a greedy asshole for wrangling this credit? Maybe. Then again, the evidence is there on record with him singing, so why lose sleep over it?

My thing was more about seeing if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before. I'm not sure he's capable of it.

And about "Wouldn't It Be Nice", I'm pretty sure Tony Asher recalled something like Mike's lawyer asking him if it was possible that while Brian was away for a minute or two during their writing sessions, he may have called Mike Love to ask for help with the lyrics. Mike's lawyer actually posited that claim. And apparently Asher was so dumbfounded by that question that I'm pretty sure he said something about how it is within the realm of possibility, but that there is like no chance that this was what actually happened.

Brian knew it was happening and knew it was wrong and has said so yet he just let it be and Mike had to make it right. After Mike had brought it up with Brian back in the day and Brian admitted it and promised to make it right and then didn't, I think Mike made a mistake by not sticking up for rights 30 years earlier than he did. Better late than never I guess.

And this has exactly what to do with Mike not writing "Wouldn't It Be Nice"? I asked nothing about any of what your brought up.

[Nicko1234]

I guess he should also credit the session piano player on "I'm Waiting for the Day" for co-writing that song too.

I think it`s apparent from reports on the trial that it was ludicrous that Brian`s management didn`t settle this out of court. People make a lot of what Mike`s lawyer argued about Wouldn`t it be Nice but the situation with California Girls was more preposterous. Brian had already admitted when doing live shows that Mike had co-written it but Brian`s lawyers still argued the point for several hours. That`s what lawyers are paid to do I guess.

It`s probably fortunate for Brian that his interview on youtube was not widely available at the time as Mike would surely have been given credit for Surfin USA if it had been.

[Cam Mott]

I've already answered about WIBN. You wondered "if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before", which I did.

[Jim V.]

I've already answered about WIBN. You wondered "if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before", which I did.

But the thing is, all that had to do with was Brian (or rather Murry) "wronging" Mike. You still haven't shown that you think Mike has ever done inappropriate things such as suing his cousin for a promo CD that prominently featured The Beach Boys name when he himself releases things like these that also prominently display his band's name:





This one is unacceptable to Mike though, therefore lawsuit worthy (and apparently worthy of Cam's defense):

[Cam Mott]

I've already answered about WIBN. You wondered "if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before", which I did.

But the thing is, all that had to do with was Brian (or rather Murry) "wronging" Mike. You still haven't shown that you think Mike has ever done inappropriate things such as suing his cousin for a promo CD that prominently featured The Beach Boys name when he himself releases things like these that also prominently display his band's name:





This one is unacceptable to Mike though, therefore lawsuit worthy (and apparently worthy of Cam's defense):

I think the disc for Brian uses images of the band and that is the difference but yes I think that suit was a 2nd mistake by Mike.

"This one is unacceptable to Mike though, therefore lawsuit worthy (and apparently worthy of Cam's defense)"

Put words in people's mouths much. So thirty years of being cheated out of millions of dollars v. an ill advised lawsuit over a free cd. I guess they are even now.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I've already answered about WIBN. You wondered "if it was possible for Cam to acknowledge Mike may have done wrong before", which I did.

But the thing is, all that had to do with was Brian (or rather Murry) "wronging" Mike. You still haven't shown that you think Mike has ever done inappropriate things such as suing his cousin for a promo CD that prominently featured The Beach Boys name when he himself releases things like these that also prominently display his band's name:





This one is unacceptable to Mike though, therefore lawsuit worthy (and apparently worthy of Cam's defense):

I think the disc for Brian uses images of the band and that is the difference

But part of the lawsuit was about misappropriation of the Beach Boys trademark.