MIKE LOVE WANTS BRIAN WILSON BACK IN THE BEACH BOYS

[Mike's Beard]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

But for Mike this must seem like Groundhog Day; there's always someone there putting themselves between him and Brian. Any band that can't have it's members freely hooking up with each other and kicking back song ideas between them is a band in name only. And I can understand perfectly why this drives Mike nuts.

[Steve Mayo]

I think until he gets a commitment from Brian to allow him to write the bulk of the material, I doubt we will ever see a Follow-up studio album from the Beach Boys. Though, if I were a betting man, I'd wager we will see another album and another tour either next year or Summer 2015. We'll see!

I'm a bookie, with the odd inside line, and I'd put the odds at a new album in the next three tears as 50/1. New tour, 40/1. Both, 150/1.

i'm a betting guy and just for fun, what the hell, put me down for $10 on each. boards gotten a little boring and i need some excitement...

[Mikie]

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea.

"Cammy".  Kinda has an endearing quality to the name "Cam", dudn't it? You call him "Cammy", his detractors call him "Cam" and when it gets real serious, they call him "Cameron".

Can I call him "Camry" since "Cammy" and "Cam" have been done already? 

[Cam Mott]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

[Cam Mott]

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea.

"Cammy".  Kinda has an endearing quality to the name "Cam", dudn't it? You call him "Cammy", his detractors call him "Cam" and when it gets real serious, they call him "Cameron".

Can I call him "Camry" since "Cammy" and "Cam" have been done already? 

Don't call me late for dinner. [old]

[drbeachboy]

I think until he gets a commitment from Brian to allow him to write the bulk of the material, I doubt we will ever see a Follow-up studio album from the Beach Boys. Though, if I were a betting man, I'd wager we will see another album and another tour either next year or Summer 2015. We'll see!

I'm a bookie, with the odd inside line, and I'd put the odds at a new album in the next three tears as 50/1. New tour, 40/1. Both, 150/1.

As Curly from The Three Stooges once stated: "Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgy, Wudgy".  As betting goes, the "Family" thing is what throws the odds off for any betting man. Look at how bad relations were frayed just a year before the reunion. Things can change with this band in an instant. Look how much they changed within a few weeks after the reunion. The Family dynamic has a weird way of binding and unbinding relationships rather quickly. Like I said, we'll see.

[drbeachboy]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

[Sheriff John Stone]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure Brian was calling the shots, and I don't think he has been (including his solo projects) for many years. With/since Brian's documented problems/issues, there has been NUMEROUS people involved in bringing his projects to fruition - record companies, wifeandmanagers, co-producers, even collaborators. I'm not insinuating Brian was ignored, but I question how much control or final say he had.

[drbeachboy]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure Brian was calling the shots, and I don't think he has been (including his solo projects) for many years. With/since Brian's documented problems/issues, there has been NUMEROUS people involved in bringing his projects to fruition - record companies, wifeandmanagers, co-producers, even collaborators. I'm not insinuating Brian was ignored, but I question how much control or final say he had.

TWGMTR is 92% Brian in writing and vocal arranging, alone. Ok, so he had help producing it, so what? Even that has his mark all over it. Help or not, TWGMTR is a "Brian" album.

[Jim V.]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

[Heysaboda]

As Curly from The Three Stooges once stated: "Truth is stranger than fiction, Judgy, Wudgy".  As betting goes, the "Family" thing is what throws the odds off for any betting man. Look at how bad relations were frayed just a year before the reunion. Things can change with this band in an instant. Look how much they changed within a few weeks after the reunion. The Family dynamic has a weird way of binding and unbinding relationships rather quickly. Like I said, we'll see.

And as Moe was known to reply:

"Why I oughta.............."

[Sheriff John Stone]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure Brian was calling the shots, and I don't think he has been (including his solo projects) for many years. With/since Brian's documented problems/issues, there has been NUMEROUS people involved in bringing his projects to fruition - record companies, wifeandmanagers, co-producers, even collaborators. I'm not insinuating Brian was ignored, but I question how much control or final say he had.

TWGMTR is 92% Brian in writing and vocal arranging, alone. Ok, so he had help producing it, so what? Even that has his mark all over it. Help or not, TWGMTR is a "Brian" album.

I wasn't referring to the 92% of Brian's writing, arranging, and producing (although I think it was, in truth, significantly less than that); I was referring to what led to that choice of 92% of included Brian Wilson songs, or the types of songs he would record.

People - meaning people familiar with Brian's history, are aware of past "choices" made by Brian that have significantly set the band back, or put a serious halt to their career momentum. There will never again be a Smiley Smile, a "Love Is A Woman", a "Shortenin' Bread", a "Daddy's Little Girl", or maybe even a Gettin' In Over My Head performance. Hell, there will never be another Friends-like album. And, to some fans on this board, that would be a disappointment. Back in the day, Brian was given the control to make those choices. And, in some cases, it was a mistake. After an accumulation of those missteps over several decades, all of them after Brian started to experience "problems", a process in probably in place that will take a good look at Brian's future "choices" - yes, musical choices. I don't think, actually I expect that Brian's wants or suggestions or directions are discussed, discussed by a team of people, and then decided on. That's what I was referring to. I don't think the final decision or end product is entirely - or even to a large extent - Brian's decision.

[Please delete my account]

So anyway, backstage at Henley last night, I asked Mike if what the Daily Star reported about the end of the C50 tour was true, and he told me it was. Apparently, there is proof.

So, now you know.

Blimey. i stand corrected.

[drbeachboy]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure Brian was calling the shots, and I don't think he has been (including his solo projects) for many years. With/since Brian's documented problems/issues, there has been NUMEROUS people involved in bringing his projects to fruition - record companies, wifeandmanagers, co-producers, even collaborators. I'm not insinuating Brian was ignored, but I question how much control or final say he had.

TWGMTR is 92% Brian in writing and vocal arranging, alone. Ok, so he had help producing it, so what? Even that has his mark all over it. Help or not, TWGMTR is a "Brian" album.

I wasn't referring to the 92% of Brian's writing, arranging, and producing (although I think it was, in truth, significantly less than that); I was referring to what led to that choice of 92% of included Brian Wilson songs, or the types of songs he would record.

People - meaning people familiar with Brian's history, are aware of past "choices" made by Brian that have significantly set the band back, or put a serious halt to their career momentum. There will never again be a Smiley Smile, a "Love Is A Woman", a "Shortenin' Bread", a "Daddy's Little Girl", or maybe even a Gettin' In Over My Head performance. Hell, there will never be another Friends-like album. And, to some fans on this board, that would be a disappointment. Back in the day, Brian was given the control to make those choices. And, in some cases, it was a mistake. After an accumulation of those missteps over several decades, all of them after Brian started to experience "problems", a process in probably in place that will take a good look at Brian's future "choices" - yes, musical choices. I don't think, actually I expect that Brian's wants or suggestions or directions are discussed, discussed by a team of people, and then decided on. That's what I was referring to. I don't think the final decision or end product is entirely - or even to a large extent - Brian's decision.

Well, if Joe Thomas is to be believed, Brian called him regarding the songs used on TWGMTR. I don't doubt that Brian consults with the band and the wifeandmanagers, but I'll bet that he mostly gets what he wants. Also, if thinking that Thomas was the producer on this album, then guess who picked him? I think Brian does what he wants to do and then hands it over to others to finish, just like how he worked with Chuck Britz. Brian did the listening and Chuck did the work.

[Cabinessenceking]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure Brian was calling the shots, and I don't think he has been (including his solo projects) for many years. With/since Brian's documented problems/issues, there has been NUMEROUS people involved in bringing his projects to fruition - record companies, wifeandmanagers, co-producers, even collaborators. I'm not insinuating Brian was ignored, but I question how much control or final say he had.

TWGMTR is 92% Brian in writing and vocal arranging, alone. Ok, so he had help producing it, so what? Even that has his mark all over it. Help or not, TWGMTR is a "Brian" album.

I wasn't referring to the 92% of Brian's writing, arranging, and producing (although I think it was, in truth, significantly less than that); I was referring to what led to that choice of 92% of included Brian Wilson songs, or the types of songs he would record.

People - meaning people familiar with Brian's history, are aware of past "choices" made by Brian that have significantly set the band back, or put a serious halt to their career momentum. There will never again be a Smiley Smile, a "Love Is A Woman", a "Shortenin' Bread", a "Daddy's Little Girl", or maybe even a Gettin' In Over My Head performance. Hell, there will never be another Friends-like album. And, to some fans on this board, that would be a disappointment. Back in the day, Brian was given the control to make those choices. And, in some cases, it was a mistake. After an accumulation of those missteps over several decades, all of them after Brian started to experience "problems", a process in probably in place that will take a good look at Brian's future "choices" - yes, musical choices. I don't think, actually I expect that Brian's wants or suggestions or directions are discussed, discussed by a team of people, and then decided on. That's what I was referring to. I don't think the final decision or end product is entirely - or even to a large extent - Brian's decision.

Well, if Joe Thomas is to be believed, Brian called him regarding the songs used on TWGMTR. I don't doubt that Brian consults with the band and the wifeandmanagers, but I'll bet that he mostly gets what he wants. Also, if thinking that Thomas was the producer on this album, then guess who picked him? I think Brian does what he wants to do and then hands it over to others to finish, just like how he worked with Chuck Britz. Brian did the listening and Chuck did the work.

Maybe Brian has lost the ability to call the best shots for his musical output and that J.Thomas is the only 'yes'-man producer he has available 

[drbeachboy]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

You can still be democratic and allow Brian to call the shots. Just so long as all are in agreement in the beginning.

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure Brian was calling the shots, and I don't think he has been (including his solo projects) for many years. With/since Brian's documented problems/issues, there has been NUMEROUS people involved in bringing his projects to fruition - record companies, wifeandmanagers, co-producers, even collaborators. I'm not insinuating Brian was ignored, but I question how much control or final say he had.

TWGMTR is 92% Brian in writing and vocal arranging, alone. Ok, so he had help producing it, so what? Even that has his mark all over it. Help or not, TWGMTR is a "Brian" album.

I wasn't referring to the 92% of Brian's writing, arranging, and producing (although I think it was, in truth, significantly less than that); I was referring to what led to that choice of 92% of included Brian Wilson songs, or the types of songs he would record.

People - meaning people familiar with Brian's history, are aware of past "choices" made by Brian that have significantly set the band back, or put a serious halt to their career momentum. There will never again be a Smiley Smile, a "Love Is A Woman", a "Shortenin' Bread", a "Daddy's Little Girl", or maybe even a Gettin' In Over My Head performance. Hell, there will never be another Friends-like album. And, to some fans on this board, that would be a disappointment. Back in the day, Brian was given the control to make those choices. And, in some cases, it was a mistake. After an accumulation of those missteps over several decades, all of them after Brian started to experience "problems", a process in probably in place that will take a good look at Brian's future "choices" - yes, musical choices. I don't think, actually I expect that Brian's wants or suggestions or directions are discussed, discussed by a team of people, and then decided on. That's what I was referring to. I don't think the final decision or end product is entirely - or even to a large extent - Brian's decision.

Well, if Joe Thomas is to be believed, Brian called him regarding the songs used on TWGMTR. I don't doubt that Brian consults with the band and the wifeandmanagers, but I'll bet that he mostly gets what he wants. Also, if thinking that Thomas was the producer on this album, then guess who picked him? I think Brian does what he wants to do and then hands it over to others to finish, just like how he worked with Chuck Britz. Brian did the listening and Chuck did the work.

Maybe Brian has lost the ability to call the best shots for his musical output and that J.Thomas is the only 'yes'-man producer he has available 

Ahh, so it was Brian telling Joe to slather all that autotune all over everything. The picture is now becoming clearer.

[JohnMill]

I think until he gets a commitment from Brian to allow him to write the bulk of the material, I doubt we will ever see a Follow-up studio album from the Beach Boys. Though, if I were a betting man, I'd wager we will see another album and another tour either next year or Summer 2015. We'll see!

I'm a bookie, with the odd inside line, and I'd put the odds at a new album in the next three tears as 50/1. New tour, 40/1. Both, 150/1.

I'm not a betting guy but I have a feeling that in 2016, they will be approached to do something to commemorate Pet Sounds' 50th Anniversary.  Whether or not they take advantage of the opportunities presented to them remains to be seen.  I'd actually be happy with one or two shows say at the Greek Theater where they play the album all the way through alongside a smattering of other hits and go home from there.

Wishful thinking probably but there are my two cents for what they're worth.

[Cam Mott]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

[Jim V.]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

And this is borne out from what? The fact that Mike complained about "Island Girl" even being included on Still Cruisin'? Or the fact that Al barely even appeared on Summer In Paradise? Past is prologue, and I don't see any recent proof that Mike cares about anything other than Mike (and maybe Bruce, sometimes).

[SMiLE Brian]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

And this is borne out from what? The fact that Mike complained about "Island Girl" even being included on Still Cruisin'? Or the fact that Al barely even appeared on Summer In Paradise? Past is prologue, and I don't see any recent proof that Mike cares about anything other than Mike (and maybe Bruce, sometimes).

I honestly wish kokomo never happened, it convinced Mike that the BBs were "his" group and he was the only member that mattered anymore. I honestly don't understand how somebody can be so egotistical and mean to his bandmates.

[Cam Mott]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

And this is borne out from what? The fact that Mike complained about "Island Girl" even being included on Still Cruisin'? Or the fact that Al barely even appeared on Summer In Paradise? Past is prologue, and I don't see any recent proof that Mike cares about anything other than Mike (and maybe Bruce, sometimes).

Island Girl was on SC which proves my point, that is if Mike was in control of SC, which seems not by your point. Has Al complained about how he couldn't get anything on SIP? Did he have anything for SIP? You probably would have to ask the producer why, RIP. I don't see any proof that Mike has kept anybody from getting anything on any album in the past so there is the prologue.

[Sheriff John Stone]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

And this is borne out from what? The fact that Mike complained about "Island Girl" even being included on Still Cruisin'? Or the fact that Al barely even appeared on Summer In Paradise? Past is prologue, and I don't see any recent proof that Mike cares about anything other than Mike (and maybe Bruce, sometimes).

I honestly wish kokomo never happened, it convinced Mike that the BBs were "his" group and he was the only member that mattered anymore. I honestly don't understand how somebody can be so egotistical and mean to his bandmates.

I don't think the effects of "Kokomo" can be underestimated. It proved - at least in Mike's mind anyway, and that turned out to significant - that he could write (I know that's questionable) a No. 1 hit single without Brian Wilson. And, at the same time, Brian in his solo career didn't come close to one without The Beach Boys - and Mike.

But most importantly, and the effects are still being felt in 2013 and probably onward, it reinforced WHAT MIKE BELIEVES a Beach Boys' record should sound like (i.e. subject matter, beach-y sound, etc.) and WHAT THE OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF BEACH BOYS' FANS WANT IN ANY NEW BEACH BOYS' RECORD. After "Kokomo", there was no turning back for Mike. It was strong before that, mainly with Endless Summer/Spirit Of America, but "Kokomo" solidified it.

[Jim V.]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

And this is borne out from what? The fact that Mike complained about "Island Girl" even being included on Still Cruisin'? Or the fact that Al barely even appeared on Summer In Paradise? Past is prologue, and I don't see any recent proof that Mike cares about anything other than Mike (and maybe Bruce, sometimes).

Island Girl was on SC which proves my point, that is if Mike was in control of SC, which seems not by your point. Has Al complained about how he couldn't get anything on SIP? Did he have anything for SIP? You probably would have to ask the producer why, RIP. I don't see any proof that Mike has kept anybody from getting anything on any album in the past so there is the prologue.

You're confusing things, bud. You said Mike would fight for Al to get stuff on a record. And I showed an instance where Mike was against it. I didn't say that anything was up to Mike. I was just proving against your assumption that Mike cares about anybody/anything other than himself. Thanks for playing though.

[Jim V.]

I don't think the effects of "Kokomo" can be underestimated. It proved - at least in Mike's mind anyway, and that turned out to significant - that he could write (I know that's questionable) a No. 1 hit single without Brian Wilson. And, at the same time, Brian in his solo career didn't come close to one without The Beach Boys - and Mike.

But most importantly, and the effects are still being felt in 2013 and probably onward, it reinforced WHAT MIKE BELIEVES a Beach Boys' record should sound like (i.e. subject matter, beach-y sound, etc.) and WHAT THE OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF BEACH BOYS' FANS WANT IN ANY NEW BEACH BOYS' RECORD. After "Kokomo", there was no turning back for Mike. It was strong before that, mainly with Endless Summer/Spirit Of America, but "Kokomo" solidified it.

Absolutely. And it doesn't mean that outside The Beach Boys, Mike is artistically worthless. It seems like he thinks a bit differently when working on his solo material. But when it comes to The Beach Boys since "Kokomo", it's summer, cars, the beach, etc.

[Cam Mott]

But why hold up the whole BBs group and demand from the fans over such a selfish request? Brian picks and choose who he works with since day one of 1961. So be it if he doesn't want to rewrite "do it again" for the 100th time with ML.

Because he might think he [and Al, maybe Bruce and Dave] should have some/more say on his own group's album?

I agree! And therein lies the fork in the road. The tectonic plates. The San Andres Faultline! Peter Carlin talked about it in depth - this band (post Pet Sounds) has always had a strange tug of war between their love & respect for Brian's talents, and their own needs as musicians. Carl was frequently in the middle of all that.

I happen to disagree with Cammy that a group 'democracy' album would be a good idea. It would be rather dull and uninteresting in my opinion. Of course, your opinion (and others) is quite the opposite.

I didn't say democracy but it is not out of line to expect it be more democratic. That's not even it, it should have more respect for the members wishes. It is their band too.

But the thing is, with your defense of Mike, I'm pretty sure Mike would be just fine if it was all Wilson/Love. I highly doubt he would stand up to have Al Jardine's writing contributions included, nor would he care much if bosom-buddy Bruce Johnston tried to pitch a re-do of "Happy Endings" and have it ignored.

I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been.

And this is borne out from what? The fact that Mike complained about "Island Girl" even being included on Still Cruisin'? Or the fact that Al barely even appeared on Summer In Paradise? Past is prologue, and I don't see any recent proof that Mike cares about anything other than Mike (and maybe Bruce, sometimes).

Island Girl was on SC which proves my point, that is if Mike was in control of SC, which seems not by your point. Has Al complained about how he couldn't get anything on SIP? Did he have anything for SIP? You probably would have to ask the producer why, RIP. I don't see any proof that Mike has kept anybody from getting anything on any album in the past so there is the prologue.

You're confusing things, bud. You said Mike would fight for Al to get stuff on a record. And I showed an instance where Mike was against it. I didn't say that anything was up to Mike. I was just proving against your assumption that Mike cares about anybody/anything other than himself. Thanks for playing though.

What?  I said:
"I don't presume it. I think Mike would be more open to Al than you think and would be more open to non-Wilson/Love contributions than Brian seems to have been."

I said he'd be more open to it than you think and there it is on the album. Besides Mike didn't object to Al's song being on the album, he noted Capitol broke the movie songs theme of the album with songs not in movies. Al's just happened to not be in a movie as I remember. You haven't changed my opinion. Thanks for playing.