The Beatles *sigh*

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Was typing from my phone...she likes the Beach Boys a bit better, but is digging both.

By the way...she thought 'Helter Skelter' was 'pretty cool' but thought it was Audioslave at first

[Jay]

Your daughter is lucky to have such a musical education, and coming from a great teacher. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

When she was three we went to go visit my aunt in the retirement home. There was a piano in the lobby. We sat her down at the bench cause I figured it would make a great picture. She started trying to play chords rather than bang away randomly. On her sixth birthday last month a made a down payment on a keyboard for her and I've been teaching her drum programming... she's a very quick learner.

For the record...her favorite Beatles songs right now are If I Fell and Strawberry Fields Forever.

[RangeRoverA1]

Forgive me for interrupting such a great conversation, but I'd like to join in by listing the top songs on each core Beatles record, just for fun:

1. Please Please Me - Twist and Shout (awesome cover! Beats the Isley Brothers' version easily!)
2. With the Beatles - Little Child (I'd go with Money but The RS version is so much better, Mick really rocks there)
3. A Hard Day's Night - either I Should Have Known Better or Things We Said Today, can't decide. (btw, I think the cover art of the album is one of the best by any artist)
4. Beatles for Sale - What You're Doing. Such a beautiful singing by Paul!
5. Help! - Tell Me What You See, hands down. It's my all-time fave Beatles song! (if we talk about the North American release, then it's the title track)
6. Rubber Soul - tough choice between What Goes On (sweet vocs by Ringo) & Norwegian Wood.
7. Revolver - Eur. And Your Bird Can Sing / Amer. Got to Get You Into My Life
8. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - With A Little Help From My Friends. So wonderful & friendly!
9. Magical Mystery Tour - Penny Lane (if you asked me 3 years ago, it'd be "The Fool on the Hill"). Generally, MMT is my favorite ever record by the group & honestly, every song except All You Need Is Love is great here!
10. The White Album - Piggies (lovely benign melody & vocals by George combined with funny pig sounds). Though Helter Skelter is very cool! I'm also a huge fan of Wild Honey Pie - gotta love some quirky stuff with creepy vocs.
11. Yellow Submarine - March of the Meanies. Nifty suspicious orchestration.
12. Abbey Road - Maxwell's Silver Hammer, full stop. Yet... the alternate highlight of the album is Here Comes the Sun, imo George's best achievement within the band. Absolutely stunning song!
13. Let It Be - Get Back. No wonder Paul still performs this rocking number in concerts.

Mind that some of the selections are done in comparison with the other tracks from respective albums & as individual cuts I won't listen to them. Especially Little Child, Twist and Shout & March of the Meanies.

Small note about Billy's daughter: from reading the stories about her, what she likes etc., I think she beats out even our friend EgoHanger. He posted that he's been digging the old music since 3 or 5 y.o. But he never mentioned he tried to play piano chords or drummed at such a young age. So, Jaymie is the coolest music-oriented child!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

[JohnMill]

I wanted to comment on the issue of "Free As A Bird", with George Harrison's guitar contribution and a few replies to my earlier post about George's involvement being shaded by his not wanting to be there for the events themselves as much as doing it for the money.

With something like a musical performance, is it as important to base an opinion on what we can listen to and feel a certain way based on what that person did or didn't do leading up to the actual moment where the performance happened, or is it more a case of taking what we each choose to take and feel from that performance itself?

My perceptions on that track were altered significantly by reading what Geoff Emerick had to say about George's guitar on Free As A Bird. He didn't go into that area in his book, yet it was a key point in that magazine interview, that there was a lot of emotion seemingly pouring out of George's guitar during those solos and fills.

So there is Emerick who engineered those sessions, he sat in the same room as George as he played those parts, he set up and dialed in George's sound in the control room, then later mixed it - and he was there basically the whole time watching it.

Now the backstory is that Emerick's book took some heat because of a few harsh observations he had about George in the studio back in the Beatle days. He and George never hit it off personally, and that may shade some of it. Emerick was much closer to and remained close with Paul personally and professionally up to the present, naturally some of that also shades his commentary. But when George did really rise to the occasion and the challenge and do something great, Geoff mentioned that too. So it wasn't all one-sided.

And when someone who had specifically pointed out those sessions where any of the Beatles was in the studio "going through the motions", or seemingly not being intently interested in contributing to what was going on beyond doing a job that day or looking for the payout to come, when he keyed in on something George played on Free As A Bird, it was a genuine expression of emotion that at least Emerick picked up on, remembering Emerick was sitting a few feet away from George as that song unfolded in the studio and saw what was going on in that room, besides controlling those sounds as the head engineer for the project.

I'd focus just as much attention on that as the perhaps negative spin on the whole proceeding being suggested by mentioning George was there for the money, he needed the money, he didn't want to work with Paul but for the payout to come, all of those. They are facets of the story, but would they serve to overshadow the enjoyment of or judgement of the tracks which resulted from those sessions?

If we put all of the backstory of the days leading up to what eventually became a legendary or a moving musical performance, and if there is a negative behind it, it may enhance the story of how it came to be but it shouldn't overshadow the enjoyment or perception of the musical moment itself.

Ultimately we don't know his mindset as he tracked that guitar part for Free As A Bird, and unlike Emerick we were not sitting next to George that day pressing the record button as he played it, so part of my newly found appreciation and emotion behind listening to that guitar work comes from the part itself and the words of the guy who was second only to George that day in making that part happen as we can hear it on the recording today.

For me it kind of spoils it yeah.  There is something definitely off about those "Reunion Sessions" perhaps even moreso than anything that went on during The Beach Boys' C50 last year.  It all seems to center around George Harrison too.  I'm not knocking George in any way and in fact could see his point of view but watch the "Anthology" DVD sometime.  He's cranky throughout or at least more times than not.  One of the long standing rumors about George Harrison is that by 1966 he already had his fill of "Beatlemania" and while he could be prone to nostalgia himself ("When We Was Fab") as well as the some backstage footage from his "Dark Horse" tour where he is clearly enjoying the heck out of watching a "Thank Your Lucky Stars" performance of "This Boy", Hari choice to live his life in the present and didn't seem to be much for reminiscing or at least didn't take much pleasure it in. 

Again I think Hari finally found the band he always wanted to be in when "The Traveling Wilburys" got together.  Whenever he spoke of those guys there was palpable joy in his voice that at least I never heard when he reminisced about The Beatles and quite frankly knowing the evolution of George Harrison as both a musician and a person, I can fully understand why. 

[guitarfool2002]

JohnMill, that's a great insight.

I got the impression George suffered from "little brother" syndrome within the Beatles, and that goes back to Liverpool when he first became friends with John and Paul. All those stories about the younger George trailing John and Paul on dates, on songwriting sessions, when they were ditching school, and having a whistle which he'd blow to "announce" he was there...to John and Paul's horror especially when they were with some young ladies and wanted to make time, or whatever.

Those are things set in place in the teen years, and I think it was mutual that all sides carried some of those feelings with them throughout adulthood.

The stories of George in the studio with the Beatles suggest he was at times brushed aside, George Martin admits guilt that he never worked as close with George's music at certain times in favor of Lennon-McCartney, and that George working in the studio could be aloof, sarcastic, and at times cantankerous.

Yet when George Harrison was working on something of his own, like the Lomax productions, the Indian-flavored songs where he was the voice of authority and knowledge and the others had to look to him for guidance and assurance, his temperament changed and he almost came alive in a different way.

I think George felt overshadowed, perhaps rightfully so, but having validation or having people look to him for the creative leadership was a major factor in his happiness.

Consider when he took the trip to America, just prior to when the Beatles regrouped for the "Get Back" project. As I always reference, George was hanging around with the likes of Dylan, The Band, any number of very musically progressive artists at that time...and they were all giving him the respect of someone equal to if not surpassing their own musical judgements. He was elevated among that group of peers in the music business to not only an equal but one whose tacit approval *they* sought.

Then he goes back to England, and Paul is telling him how to play guitar on a batch of songs that at some points were as dreary in their delivery as the group's warehouse-like surroundings? Having just come from musical pow-wows with Bob Dylan??? No wonder George openly argued some of that, and eventually packed up and walked. It was Liverpool again, his musical input was marginalized.

Then witness in the glow of his American trip how many songs he wrote which would become both the highlights of Abbey Road and his own All Things Must Pass. It energized him. As he can be heard on a Get Back bootleg, he clearly states how many songs he has, if they don't make a Beatles album he'll say f*** it and release his own record. And he did.

With the Wilburys, remember it was George who put it all together. He was working on songs, called some friends, called more friends, and there was the Wilburys. It was George who got it going, he was the de facto "leader" who pulled them together. No wonder he thrived in that - not only was he an equal, but the band's whole persona was fictional, and he was not "Beatle George", nor was there much interest in asking at that point "Hey George, is Paul going to be involved?". It didn't matter.

JohnMill: I'm sure you know the "Carl Perkins And Friends" cable TV special from around '86, where George, Clapton, Brian Setzer, etc came together to play with Carl Perkins.

Many say George stole the show. His guitar playing was terrific. His knowledge of and reverence for the old Sun records and various rockabilly classics like "That's Alright Mama", including some near-perfect replications of Scotty Moore's guitar parts, was incredible. In the years leading up to that, George as a guitarist was not all that visible. Yet here he comes blowing people off that stage with his guitar work.

I won't forget Brian Setzer's take on that show. I love Setzer's music, he's one of my favorites, let me say before going on. And Setzer's life as a musician has been driven by the rockabilly records he loved, specifically Eddie Cochran and the usual Sun material.

And there's Setzer, who had spent his life chasing those sounds of the old records on his own guitar work, who says he was amazed when George shows up with a Gretsch guitar, plugs in, and gets those EXACT sounds Setzer himself had been obsessively chasing his whole life. I believe he either asked George on the spot or called him later to ask basically how the hell do you get THAT SOUND??? I'd post George's reply if I could remember. But needless to say, George in that situation was in his element, he knew the music and loved it, and he was with people who shared that.

No one told him when to play or not to play that night. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm still not digging the Let it Be album that much, and to be honest I think Abbey Road is great but not as good as its reputation.  In fact, I would go so far to say that I think George was the only one on top of his game during the last two albums. It's pretty interesting to read the above concerning George...he's the one person in the band I know very little about apart from Wikipedia. Not familiar with his solo music, but am interested in learning more.

[Jay]

You might find this version of The Long And Winding Road easier to take in. I love this version, and can't for the life of me figure out why it wasn't released on Let It Be as is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AuKENgmLQ

[alf wiedersehen]

I'm still not digging the Let it Be album that much, and to be honest I think Abbey Road is great but not as good as its reputation.  In fact, I would go so far to say that I think George was the only one on top of his game during the last two albums. It's pretty interesting to read the above concerning George...he's the one person in the band I know very little about apart from Wikipedia. Not familiar with his solo music, but am interested in learning more.

Let it Be might sound great on paper (The Beatles working with Phil Spector!,) but it's a pretty weary album. But, I've grown to like it.

Also, if you're interested in George's solo work, his first album, All Things Must Pass, is filled with songs he wrote as a Beatle, but was never able to put on an album. Also, certain versions have a jam section with some pretty notable guests.

[Alan Smith]

I'm still not digging the Let it Be album that much, and to be honest I think Abbey Road is great but not as good as its reputation.  In fact, I would go so far to say that I think George was the only one on top of his game during the last two albums. It's pretty interesting to read the above concerning George...he's the one person in the band I know very little about apart from Wikipedia. Not familiar with his solo music, but am interested in learning more.

It took me years and years, and then some, to "get" Let it Be - then it finally kicked in  ; wait and see what happens.  I recently chanced upon a '76 Japanese vinyl copy and it sounds grrrreat.

George was on fire from the White Album onwards, imho.  I'm currently rereading the Geoff Emerick book and he relays Harrison as a fairly dour, humourless individual who stuggled to complete with J&P (bar the Indian tunes) until the later period where he grew in confidence and relaxed a bit.

I think the sound of Abbey Road is fantastic, although some of the songs are patchy.  Side 2 is a pretty good run tho'.

[Jay]

I'm still not digging the Let it Be album that much, and to be honest I think Abbey Road is great but not as good as its reputation.  In fact, I would go so far to say that I think George was the only one on top of his game during the last two albums. It's pretty interesting to read the above concerning George...he's the one person in the band I know very little about apart from Wikipedia. Not familiar with his solo music, but am interested in learning more.

Out of the four Beatles, I sometimes think that I like George's solo work the most. Especially the Cloud Nine album.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

How is the Emerick book? I'm thinking of buying it. Is it the best as far as analyzing the recording of the music? That's what I'm really interested in.

I do like several of the songs on Let it Be, but the album as a whole isn't up to their previous standards IMHO. It just sounds tired to me...mainly the production is lacking. Again, this is a comparison to their previous work...a 'weak' Beatles album is most other bands' all-time best.

[Jay]

The whole lack of production factor was one of the goals of the Get Back project, from what I understand. The project was the brainchild of Paul, who I think envisioned it as a way for the dying group to get back to their roots. I think a major problem is that The Beatles by then weren't the same group and no longer had the overall passion that they had in their pre fame teenage years, or even the interest in trying that hard anymore. The only one who really put his heart all the way in the project was Paul, and even he seemed to lose interest near the end. The whole thing was kind of DOA by day 1. Kind of like the Smile project, in that there were factors that insured that the sessions  were doomed to fail almost as soon as they began.

[Alan Smith]

Re the Emerick book

IMHO - it gives pretty interesting rundowns of the sessions Emerick was on (especially Revolver Pepper incorporating Penny Lane and StrawberryF, Magical M, most of the Beatles and Abbey Road + post) and provides a balanced amount of technical detail without going insane; a bit like the juicy session morsels we get from Mr Desper.

There is some speculation about the disintegration of the relationship and some opinion about George Martin's role, but isn't too badly done.

Geoff E obviously had a great raport with Macca, and some of his Macca recollections border on bone-smoking; which may irk strident Lennon fans.  The overall focus is clearly on the music and depiciting the instutionalised attitudes of EMI during the Beatles tenure.

The writing is assisted by a guy called Howard Massey and I'm unsure what level he may have influenced or embellished some of the detail.

It takes a few chapters to kick in, and I could have done without some of the filler (eg, GE's side-splitting drunken practical lark of swapping around the shoes outside doors of a hotel rooms) - a sessions diary may have been the best approach.

All in all, good - and hey, I'm reading it for the second time which is always a good indicator (and mainly 'cos I can't remember sh*t these days  )

(edited to fix up a really useless spelling mistake)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Thank you for that. Think I'm going to pick it up. I'm looking for details about the recording process especially on Strawberry Fields.

Would it be considered to be the best book overall on the band and if not which one would be?

[Alan Smith]

Thank you for that. Think I'm going to pick it up. I'm looking for details about the recording process especially on Strawberry Fields.

Would it be considered to be the best book overall on the band and if not which one would be?

Strawberry Fields gets about 5 pages, with a slight interlude for when I'm Sixty-Four (dude) and a Ravi Shankar session.  If you were to read this, wiki, listen to the anthology version and other youtube bits and pieces, you may well become an expert and party favourite.

In terms of Beatles books, I have read very few -   

I enjoyed "The Love You Make" by Peter Brown and Stephen (Heroes and Villians) Gaines
I have read the Albert Goldman book about Lennon - it's fuckin' mad (and is complete tosh)

and will defer to those who have.

[Jay]

Even though it's old and kind of outdated(it was published in 1987) I'd say that The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn is still essential if it's strictly details about the recording process that you're interested in.

[Gertie J.]

albert's book is gnarly!!!!! go read it bill!

[hypehat]

Revolution in the Head by Ian Macdonald is my go to on a song by song basis, but if you're looking for a greater overview I quite enjoy Bob Spitz's The Beatles. And Phillip Norman's Lennon is good.

[MBE]

Billy all you really need is The Beatles Complete Recording Sessions by Mark Lewison. One of the best of its type.

[JohnMill]

Billy all you really need is The Beatles Complete Recording Sessions by Mark Lewison. One of the best of its type.

Unfortunately like a lot of Beatles books "The Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Abbey Road Studio Notes 1962-1970" is OOP but it's far from the only book you need.  In fact the Lewisohn book while invaluable as a resource (especially for other authors like John Winn) really only gives an overview of The Beatles' recording sessions comparatively speaking in terms of books that have been published since.  I posted this up the chain and since a moderator made the request, I hope he doesn't mind a repost.  Here are the essential Beatles books you need to have on your shelf.  Unfortunately many of them are now out of print and will command a high price but get the ones that are in print if you can:

Since in a roundabout way the subject of Beatles' books were brought up here is a short list to help you wade through what is out there and pluck out the essentials.  Most of them are sadly out of print at the moment but are essential reading if you want to learn about the history of The Beatles:

The Complete Beatles Chronicle: The Definitive Day By Day Guide To The Beatles' Career (Mark Lewisohn - In Print)
The Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Abbey Road Studio Notes 1962-1970 (Mark Lewisohn - OOP)
Drugs, Divorce And A Slipping Image (Doug Sulpy - 3rd Printing 2007 OOP)
The Unreleased Beatles (Richie Unterberger - OOP)
Eight Arms To Hold You: The Solo Beatles Compendium (Chip Madinger & Mark Easter - OOP)
Way Beyond Compare: The Beatles Recorded Legacy Volume 1 (John Winn - In Print)
That Magic Feeling: The Beatles Recorded Legacy Volume 2 (John Winn - In Print)
Lifting Latches: The Beatles Recorded Legacy Volume 3 Inside The Beatles' Vaults (John Winn - OOP)
Recording The Beatles (Kevin Ryan & Brian Kehew - OOP)

A short breakdown:

The Lewisohn books are generally considered among Beatles fans to be the bibles when it comes to the careers of The Beatles.  "The Complete Beatles Chronicle" deals with the day by day activities of The Beatles' in the sixties while "The Beatles Recording Sessions" delves into each particular Beatles recording session detailing what was recorded and when.  It's truly unlike any other book on the market and it's unfortunate that more bands don't have books like these devoted to their careers.

"Way Beyond Compare: The Beatles Recorded Legacy Volume 1" and "That Magic Feeling: The Beatles Recorded Legacy Volume 2" are great companion pieces to the Lewisohn books.  Both books detail every available recording (both audio and video) available by The Beatles and also details where you can locate it.  "The Unreleased Beatles" likewise is a nice overview of much of the same information found in the Winn books although unlike those books does not inform the reader where to locate the recordings.  The book does compare favorably though in style with Keith Badman's book on The Beach Boys and in my opinion is more favorable than wading through dozens of Doug Sulpy's 910 issues trying to get an overview of The Beatles' in the recording studio and in concert.

One Sulpy book however that is absolutely essential for any Beatles' fan to read is "Drugs, Divorce And A Slipping Image" which is Sulpy's blow by blow account of the 1969 "Get Back/Let It Be" sessions which were essentially the recording sessions that broke the band.  For years a great deal of falsehoods have been put into print and gobbled up by the public at large over why The Beatles' broke up.  Sulpy's book to my knowledge comes the closest in detailing the truth behind the implosion of one of music's greatest bands.

"Eight Arms To Hold You: The Solo Beatles Compendium" breaks down the solo recordings of all four Beatles in much the same way "Way Beyond Compare" and "That Magic Feeling" do for the collective group.  The book is slightly out of date as it only goes up to 2000 but is still pretty relevant.  To me it's the essential book written on the solo years as it not only details all the solo recordings available and where to find them but also adds a ton of rare facts, stories and information behind each member's solo career, a facet of The Beatles that often is not explained nearly as well as their years together as a group.

"Lifting Latches: The Beatles Recorded Legacy Volume 3 Inside The Beatles' Vaults" and "Recording The Beatles" are probably more suited to the diehards but are essential reading nonetheless.  "Lifting Latches" takes you inside the vault in Abbey Road Studios and examines exactly what is on each multitrack tape.  There are also some fascinating essays near the back of the book penned by author John Winn not included in either of his previous two books.  "Recording The Beatles" gets down to the minutia as to how exactly The Beatles music was made in the studio.  What equipment they used, techniques used in recording and mixing the tracks and basically tells the tale of how records were made at EMI Studios in the sixties using the Beatles recordings as a means of explaining the process.

In closing I should note that Mark Lewisohn is coming out with the first of many new volumes detailing the legacy of The Beatles this fall ("Tune In: The Beatles All These Years") which given his past track record will probably be essential reading as well.  In addition Kevin Howlett will be publishing his book "The Beatles: The BBC Archives 1962-1970" which is essential reading for anyone interested in the BBC sessions.  Howlett had published a previous edition of this book back in the eighties but with the update coming, you might as well just wait for that one.  Of course I assume everyone by this point has "The Beatles Anthology" as published by in 2002 which is the companion book to the DVD series of the same name.  It's essential reading obviously and the only reason I didn't list it above is I assumed most everyone had that publication by now.

[guitarfool2002]

I guess it got lost in the last 14 pages     but a few of us have been referencing the Emerick book throughout the thread. An essential read for those into the studio element, some backstories you don't see elsewhere.

Related to the specifics of recording, here's what to buy:

Kevin Ryan and Brian Kehew "Recording The Beatles", the ultimate techie geek manual to Beatles studio stuff, here's a link http://www.recordingthebeatles.com/

Mark Lewisohn "The Beatles Recording Sessions"

Andy Aledort "Beatles Gear"

Geoff Emerick "Here There And Everywhere"

Alan Parsons - special note, go to his website for all kinds of info on recording, there will be a book as well compiling all of this info, but the website has the full courses and downloads. Here: http://www.artandscienceofsound.com/

The Beatles Anthology book


All of those I'd highly recommend for studio recording information. If you're a student of the Beatles' recording techniques and how those records were made, including what equipment and technology they used, look for the above books.

If you want long-winded dissertations on how significant something George said during take 44 of "Not Guilty" could be to the band's history, look elsewhere...

[guitarfool2002]

If you go to their website which I posted above, the Ryan/Kehew book "Recording The Beatles" is currently in stock through the website and ready to ship. JohnMill, is there a retailer listing it as out of print?

[JohnMill]

If you go to their website which I posted above, the Ryan/Kehew book "Recording The Beatles" is currently in stock through the website and ready to ship. JohnMill, is there a retailer listing it as out of print?

Amazon is currently listing it as out of print or at the very least they don't carry it themselves.  The price tag for a new/used copy of "Recording The Beatles" is astronomical on Amazon and the other out of print books I've listed aren't exactly bargain buys either.  "The Unreleased Beatles" though is back in print on Amazon since my OP around a month or so ago.  Only three copies left in stock though at the moment.  As I mentioned the book could be the fraternal twin of the Badman book in terms of how it's laid out.  Good read.