Mike Love: 'There are a lot of fallacies about me'

[JohnMill]

Hi John and thanks for reading my post. I should further explain as I suppose I didn't get my feelings across too clear.

As far as devoting time and emotion to people on a message board, I really do not let bad reactions or feelings  bother me so much like I had. I feel kind of removed and distanced from the whole thing if anything. This thread is OK, but when a pretty straightforward interview creates this much drama, one does have to comment is some bewilderment. The basic things on a board are always going to be the same, and it is like anywhere else. Put in my actual non online perspective, any message board is only going to mean so much. Yet I felt at one time here that there was a real open mindedness to different thoughts. Maybe a community feel, a lack of venom. I know myself I went years here feeling very relaxed and like we could agree to disagree.

I don't want "perfection", nor do I dislike new posters with basic questions. I want there to be new fans, new people to talk to. I am only talking about those who get told the world is round, but keep saying it's flat. Talk all you like about 2012, but again there are some unassailable truths (facts, events etc.) that are being willfully ignored. As we have been saying the same thing since the press releases came, maybe myself, AGD and others actually took the time to ask the right questions to the right people?  
People want publicity, spin, press, you name it. A few press agents thought going public would shame Mike into changing his mind, maybe civilized discussion would have been the best tactic. Hurt or not that Mike didn't want to go on with the tour,  the Love camp isn't the one being political here. They have been in the past, and hey Mike HAS done some things I openly said were wrong. I judge who I side with on a case by case basis. Again I simply find it amazing why tour dates known about months in advance would baffle a fan let alone insult a band mate.

One last thing, I honestly am not trying to be aggressive with anyone. I just get bored at reading the same old bickering when there are so many more interesting Beach Boys, music related, or real life things to discuss.

Cool stuff.  My feeling on how the situation was handled at the end of the C50 by all parties is that it has been nothing short of abominable.  "Brian Wilson fired" should've never trended on GOOGLE and I agree with you that civilized discussion between all parties perhaps regarding in a joint press release similar to the statement Al Jardine has on his website would've been optimal.  Hopefully they don't go out this way permanently but if they never do tour as a inclusive group again, at least we have the memories of the C50 tour itself.

[drbeachboy]

I can't believe we are fighting over the fact that the reunion ended when it could have gone on with more shows, albums, and good PR. Who honestly wants two BBs instead of five touring? The C50 was a great experience, going back to M&B just doesn't cut it for me.

Well, that's fine that it doesn't cut for you. I expected it from the very beginning, so what? We just cancelled each other out. It was finite from the outset. Even Jardine in many videos says "...for one last time". That tells me that they all knew that from the get go.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The problem is though when Brian Wilson and company make comments regarding being taken by surprise by the events that transpired at the end of the C50, it does make the situation a little less clear than you put forth.

As has been previously stated and backed up with documented proof, Brian et al knew about Mike booking October gigs three months before they threw a collective hissyfit, so I fail to see how it was such a surprise, especially as Mike's press release (which granted didn't have the best possible timing) was issued at the express request of Brian's representative.

Basically if we are to take Brian Wilson (or his representatives) at their word "the fact" that the C50 had a definite start and end time was either not communicated to them (unlikely) was ignored by them in hopes that Love would change his mind and once again extend C50 activities into the fall and beyond (possible) or they are just trying to spin the story their way in an effort to get that story out to public interpreted as they themselves see it.  

As also stated, my take is that because Mike had already changed his mind once and extended the tour by some 50%, Brian and the others figured he'd do it again... and were left avec oeuf sur les visages when he didn't.

As for Jon's contributions (and I wouldn't dream for a moment of disputing them - Stebbins says something happened, that's good enough for me), the list Wirestone provided changed its focus more than somewhat as it unfolded. Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

[SMiLE Brian]

I can't believe we are fighting over the fact that the reunion ended when it could have gone on with more shows, albums, and good PR. Who honestly wants two BBs instead of five touring? The C50 was a great experience, going back to M&B just doesn't cut it for me.

Well, that's fine that it doesn't cut for you. I expected it from the very beginning, so what? We just cancelled each other out. It was finite from the outset. Even Jardine in many videos says "...for one last time". That tells me that they all knew that from the get go.

I remember that statement as well, I thought it sounded more like PR talk so fans buy tickets for the shows. Maybe they all thought it was finite at the beginning, but Brian, Al, and David changed their minds as the shows became outstanding during last summer. These are interesting times in BBs world....

[Mike's Beard]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore, an option a faction of the band's fanbase apparently feels he has no right to. Let's be honest here, if this had been anyone other than Mike Love people would have accepted that reunited bands rarely last long and would have got on with their lives.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

[drbeachboy]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

[SMiLE Brian]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

rr

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

The levels of total control Mike Love has achieved in the BBs career have rarely been  ones of artistic and legacy fulfilling periods in BBs history.

[drbeachboy]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

You said "...control that he always wanted". I am bringing to your attention that he has had it for 25+ years.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I agree for the most part.

I think that the creative control he wanted and achieved throughout the Golden Age of Beach Boys hit making was helpful to The Beach Boys. But after that, yeah, there's been a lot of strange stuff and if he were half the creative person he makes himself out to be, he'd understand that he has extended himself beyond his abilities.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

You said "...control that he always wanted". I am bringing to your attention that he has had it for 25+ years.

Not to get into a language debate, but the fact that he has had this control does not negate the fact that he "always wanted" it.

[drbeachboy]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

rr

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

The levels of total control Mike Love has achieved in the BBs career have rarely been  ones of artistic and legacy fulfilling periods in BBs history.

Mike wants or wanted to write more with Brian, but he has always deferred the artistic part to Brian. The control that I am writing about is control over the touring band.

[drbeachboy]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

You said "...control that he always wanted". I am bringing to your attention that he has had it for 25+ years.

Not to get into a language debate, but the fact that he has had this control does not negate the fact that he "always wanted" it.

From all the discussions over the past year, he gave up a lot during the C50 Tour. I'm guessing more than he wanted to give up permanently as he may have had to do if the full band stayed together.

[SMiLE Brian]

 Mike, because of events in his childhood, has a great and understandable respect for money... yet he walked away from guaranteed megabucks if C50 was extended. Ever think why he might do that ?

I'm guessing because he didn't want to do it anymore,

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career. But, yeah, he probably didn't want to because he wasn't getting as much of his way as he desired.

More like, he didn't have the level of control that he has enjoyed for the previous 14 years, or even since the 1980's.

rr

Sure. I'm not sure how that's adding anything to what I've said. Yes, there have been points in his career that he has achieved the level of control that he has always wanted.

The levels of total control Mike Love has achieved in the BBs career have rarely been  ones of artistic and legacy fulfilling periods in BBs history.

Mike wants or wanted to write more with Brian, but he has always deferred the artistic part to Brian. The control that I am writing about is control over the touring band.

Not so much in my opinion, Mike has always wanted BW to recreate the highs of the surf period of 1961-1965 through his "suggestions". The touring group has always focused on the surf songs and limited other hits, the concessions for deep cuts only coming after BW toured SMiLE.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike wants or wanted to write more with Brian, but he has always deferred the artistic part to Brian. The control that I am writing about is control over the touring band.

I'm not and I'm the one who brought up the issue of "control."

From all the discussions over the past year, he gave up a lot during the C50 Tour. I'm guessing more than he wanted to give up permanently as he may have had to do if the full band stayed together.

That's pretty much my point. What else do you think I meant when I stated that he ended C50 because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career?

[drbeachboy]

Mike wants or wanted to write more with Brian, but he has always deferred the artistic part to Brian. The control that I am writing about is control over the touring band.

I'm not and I'm the one who brought up the issue of "control."

From all the discussions over the past year, he gave up a lot during the C50 Tour. I'm guessing more than he wanted to give up permanently as he may have had to do if the full band stayed together.

That's pretty much my point. What else do you think I meant when I stated that he ended C50 because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career?

I think I explained the difference. Attaining something you never had is quite different than giving up something you already had. In the end, yes, we are talking about an amount of control that he was unwilling to give up.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I think I explained the difference. Attaining something you never had is quite different than giving up something you already had. In the end, yes, we are talking about an amount of control that he was unwilling to give up.

Except that I never suggested he wanted to attain something he never had - that was your incorrect interpretation of what I said based on a misreading, which I've already explained to you.

[drbeachboy]

I'm guessing it's because he didn't have the level of control that he's always wanted throughout his career.

We just went through this, now read what you said, it is in bold above. You have made it abundantly clear what you meant and we are in agreement. Now, please leave it at that.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I can't leave it when you insist that I wrote it incorrectly when in reality you don't know what you're talking about.

If I said, "Throughout the 1960s, Brian always wanted creative control over the Beach Boys records" would you suggest that I was implying that he never had it during that time? If your answer to that is anything other than "no," then you have to admit that you are really out of line here.

[drbeachboy]

I can't leave it when you insist that I wrote it incorrectly when in reality you don't know what you're talking about.

If I said, "Throughout the 1960s, Brian always wanted creative control over the Beach Boys records" would you suggest that I was implying that he never had it during that time? If your answer to that is anything other than "no," then you have to admit that you are really out of line here.

I am only talking about touring and keeping the band together after C50. As far as recording, except for MIU maybe, Mike pretty much deferred to Brian in the studio. As we all know Brian wasn't involved with SIP, and Mike was the man for that record. Except for having issues writing with Brian like in the old days, he seemed to defer to Brian with TWGMTR. Mike has made it clear over the years that he isn't into recording, as much as touring The Beach Boys. The only control that I was addressing was strictly with the touring band.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I am only talking about touring and keeping the band together after C50. As far as recording, except for MIU maybe, Mike pretty much deferred to Brian in the studio. As we all know Brian wasn't involved with SIP, and Mike was the man for that record. Except for having issues writing with Brian like in the old days, he seemed to defer to Brian with TWGMTR. Mike has made it clear over the years that he isn't into recording, as much as touring The Beach Boys. The only control that I was addressing was strictly with the touring band.

Well, Mike's always liked a certain amount of creative control too and frequently gets pissy about the material he doesn't get to contribute to. In fact, he may have deferred to Brian with TWGMTR but it is clear that he did so begrudgingly and wouldn't want to defer like that again.

[drbeachboy]

I am only talking about touring and keeping the band together after C50. As far as recording, except for MIU maybe, Mike pretty much deferred to Brian in the studio. As we all know Brian wasn't involved with SIP, and Mike was the man for that record. Except for having issues writing with Brian like in the old days, he seemed to defer to Brian with TWGMTR. Mike has made it clear over the years that he isn't into recording, as much as touring The Beach Boys. The only control that I was addressing was strictly with the touring band.

Well, Mike's always liked a certain amount of creative control too and frequently gets pissy about the material he doesn't get to contribute to. In fact, he may have deferred to Brian with TWGMTR but it is clear that he did so begrudgingly and wouldn't want to defer like that again.

I agree with that! Though, I think Mike had more issues with the lack of writing with Brian for the new album, than just deferring control to Brian. I think if Mike could write with Brian like the old days, he would not have issues recording another album in the future. Not holding my breath.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I am only talking about touring and keeping the band together after C50. As far as recording, except for MIU maybe, Mike pretty much deferred to Brian in the studio. As we all know Brian wasn't involved with SIP, and Mike was the man for that record. Except for having issues writing with Brian like in the old days, he seemed to defer to Brian with TWGMTR. Mike has made it clear over the years that he isn't into recording, as much as touring The Beach Boys. The only control that I was addressing was strictly with the touring band.

Well, Mike's always liked a certain amount of creative control too and frequently gets pissy about the material he doesn't get to contribute to. In fact, he may have deferred to Brian with TWGMTR but it is clear that he did so begrudgingly and wouldn't want to defer like that again.

I agree with that! Though, I think Mike had more issues with the lack of writing with Brian for the new album, than just deferring control to Brian. I think if Mike could write with Brian like the old days, he would not have issues recording another album in the future. Not holding my breath.

I suppose I should be a bit more clear in my use of the word "control." I don't necessarily mean Mike wants full control over everything - just that there is a certain level of control he wants. In that respect, the fact that he wasn't allowed to sit with Brian and contribute in the way he used to is part and parcel of that level of control. Though, I am in agreement with the poster who noted a while back that co-writing partnership from "the old days" is largely mythical. Yes, Brian and Mike wrote a lot of songs together but Brian was far from devoted only to Mike and from the beginning made partnerships with many other artists outside the Beach Boys sphere.

[urbanite]

I don't get why Mike doesn't find someone else to collaborate with.  If the creative ability and desire is still there, why not work with another songwriter to put his ideas into music?