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Author Topic: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions  (Read 210979 times)
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« Reply #1550 on: July 25, 2020, 04:21:33 PM »

A couple possibly unpopular opinions:
- I usually appreciate the falsetto but in Hawaii, it's a bit too high/too much for my taste
- To my ear, the chorus in Heroes and Villains doesn't fit real well with the rest of the song

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« Reply #1551 on: July 25, 2020, 07:23:26 PM »

I just wanted to thank both of you for the very kind words about that review, it really means a lot to me! I still feel very passionate about the NPP album overall, and I still hold the same opinions as I wrote back in 2015, with the exception of maybe one or two tracks that have not aged as well as their counterparts on the album over these 5 years. I think the album sounds amazing from a pure sonic angle, and the way the backing tracks are tightly arranged to allow some intricate layered parts to bust out of the mix really enhances the high sound quality of both the recording and mix.

If anything I undersold it; I really enjoyed reading your review so much. Love the passion behind it and it's contagious!

I quite agree too, NPP has well stood the test of time. It still sounds lovely to my ears, and it's still cool that Brian took some chances working with contemporary artists and a wide range of styles. He should be very proud of it.

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« Reply #1552 on: July 26, 2020, 09:22:14 AM »

Yeah, what SMiLE Brian said.

It basically first started when a clip of Brian and Zooey Deschanel working on ĎOn The Islandí was released on social media. Certain people here and on social media had mental breakdowns because Brian was supposedly autotuned- even though it was such a poor quality clip recorded from some early Ď10s iPhone. So there was a lot of arguments back and forth about if auto tune was even used, and even if it was was it really worth all the trashing of Brianís music?

It got so bad that management decided not to release any more clips.

One dude wrote that Joe Thomas (who worked with Brian on many of the songs) should throw himself from a skyscraper.

A bunch of fans were pissed that Brian was using younger/popular talent on the album - to the point they were rudely claiming that Brian would never have a radio hit again no matter who sang with him. This one was really sad because Brian has stated that his only goal anymore is to get another #1 song. Could it happen? Bob Dylan just got his first #1 charting song a month or so ago so it definitely could happen.

So then the album comes out and two fans decide it would be worth their time to completely berate the entire album in a series of written reviews posted on this forum. These were posted in their own thread here, and it got a lot of positive and negative feedback. Quotes like ďItís a stupid fucking pop songĒ were sprinkled throughout the review. It was just such a slap in the face to Brian. And they defended it as ďSatireĒ when it was just a shitty thing to do to Brian and the people he worked with on that album.

Letís see, if I recall correctly Casey Something from PopMatters wrote some absolute garbage review of NPP which was completely littered with inaccuracies. I took the time to call out every one of those inaccuracies in a post on this forum and he actually made an account and responded here with some absolutely ridiculous defense. He completely ignored the facts and was purely writing against me and others based on his emotions. To give you an idea of the mindset this guy had, in the opening paragraph of that review he compared Brian Wilson to an aged incoherent grandfather who has to be wheeled out and told what to say on Thanksgiving Day. It was so messed up and yet another slap in the face to Brian.

Another which caused drama was Mike refusing to listen to Itís About Time but claiming it wouldnít be great if there was auto tune on it. Yes, the guy actually said that, and then proceeded to record a slew of albums that are drowning in auto tune. Anyways, this caused more ďMike hateĒ posts here and some people got annoyed about it.

This is all off the top of my head. I know there are plenty of other stories that others could share. Most of the people who were so negative were either banned for other reasons or left - this forum used to be completely full of irrational angst against Brian and Melinda, whereas now all that angst is docked in a different harbor.

Honestly, I think NPP is one of Brianís best albums - it is just full of positive vibes, and itís also rather somber at the end. Itís happy and sad, complex and sometimes simple. Iím personally thankful that he decided to make it.

Iíve never understood the problem people have with Brian writing in a pop song structure. Everyone expects every song of his to be some 8 and a half minute masterpiece with 13 different sections, five key changes, etc. But some of Brianís best songs are simple pop structures. Almost all of Pet Sounds and Love You have some form of a pop structure.
As for the autotune, as Iíve said so many times, itís just a vocal effect. If it existed in the 60s, all of them would have used the hell out of it. The Beach Boys would have used it, The Beatles already love doing tons of vocal experimentation, so you know their voices wouldíve been drowning in Digital effects if they existed at that time. So, just like double tracking, just like reverb, just like vocoders, or any other filter, it can be used fantastically, and it can be used horribly.
Personally, I grew up with albums like Kanye Westís 808s & Heartbreak, and Kid Cudiís Man On the Moon: The End of Day. So it never really bothered me on TWGMTR and NPP where itís used so subtly that you have to really listen for it. It has bothered me on the C50 live disk and on Mikes albums, but those are in a different ballpark.
As for reviews, I donít really take them seriously. Heís an older artist working with newer artists, and there will always be that Subsection of people who just hate modern music, so anything that might even come close to sounding modern bothers them.
And as for Mike, heís trashed Dennisís POB, he said in an interview that BW88 ďsounds like sh*tĒ and the arrangements ď arenít commercial enough.Ē Heís also trashed BWPS, and literally anything else that the bandmembers have done solo. So I donít really take his opinion very seriously either.
And of course the conspiracies that Brian is working against his will, and all that BS come out every time the guy speaks. So I donít take those very seriously either.
As for Joe Thomas, iím not a huge fan of his adult contemporary style of production, but it bothered me way more on Imagination than NPP and TWGMTR, and obviously I have no ill will towards the guy. If Brian grooves with Thomas, and this music makes him happy, thatís whatís important.
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« Reply #1553 on: July 26, 2020, 10:38:21 AM »

Would it be an unpopular opinion to say that I think Blondie should have had more of the Sail Away lead.
I reckon he could have taken Brian's verse.

My favourite Brian vocals on the album are probably This Beautiful Day and Whatever Happened. Whatever Happened is my favourite song on the album also by some way. Tell Me Why is pretty good too and has a coda/fade-out to rival anything he or The Beach Boys ever did. I was disappointed with The Last Song, was hoping for something as good as Summer's Gone. I'm Feeling Sad is an unassuming highlight though.
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« Reply #1554 on: July 26, 2020, 11:48:41 AM »

As for the autotune, as Iíve said so many times, itís just a vocal effect. If it existed in the 60s, all of them would have used the hell out of it. The Beach Boys would have used it, The Beatles already love doing tons of vocal experimentation, so you know their voices wouldíve been drowning in Digital effects if they existed at that time. So, just like double tracking, just like reverb, just like vocoders, or any other filter, it can be used fantastically, and it can be used horribly.

Every time I bring this up there is a 10 page back-and-forth that results from it, but Brian speeding up 'Caroline, No' was definitely an example of using technology to manipulate vocals. So with that in mind I don't get why people are shocked about the possibility of Brian using some slight pitch-correction in his songs in modern times.

As for reviews, I donít really take them seriously. Heís an older artist working with newer artists, and there will always be that Subsection of people who just hate modern music, so anything that might even come close to sounding modern bothers them.

I guess many of the negative reviews on this very forum were shocking in terms of how rude they were ("stupid fucking pop song"). And for 99.9% of other artists I don't really care about reviews either (and don't give them too much thought) - I guess I see it differently with Brian. He is nearly 80 years old, half a lifetime of drug abuse, mental illness, controlled by a psychotic doctor for years...with all that in mind I don't get how people can be so mean to the guy. He just wants to record some music, and when he does people sh*t all over it complaining it's not the 1960s Brian we're getting. The guy is manic-depressive with schizoaffective disorder, he hears voices that tell him to kill himself daily, and supposed fans spent months here criticizing NPP. It just made ZERO sense to me.

*And yeah, I criticize Mike Love's recent offerings, but I criticize them based on his own standards he set for Brian in that 'Right Time' interview ("no autotune").

As for Joe Thomas, iím not a huge fan of his adult contemporary style of production, but it bothered me way more on Imagination than NPP and TWGMTR, and obviously I have no ill will towards the guy. If Brian grooves with Thomas, and this music makes him happy, thatís whatís important.

I would like to know the deal with Brian suing Thomas to get out of recording another album with him after Imagination...Did Brian hate working with the guy that much?

Recently I've been listening to Imagination more and more and I really do like the album. Brian once stated that "We call it a Brian Wilson album, but it's really a Joe Thomas/Brian Wilson album." - if you embrace that and see it more like the VDPs/BW OCA album, I think it makes more sense.

Actually, that's something I can add to this unpopular opinion list: I think Imagination is terribly underrated. Brian sounds awesome on it, there are some crazy beautiful moments peppered throughout it, and aside from a couple obvious AC stereotypes that Joe clearly through in the mix, it does sound like a pure Brian Wilson album (his vocal harmonizations are so perfect that you know he wasn't half-assing this album.
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« Reply #1555 on: July 26, 2020, 01:03:23 PM »

As for the autotune, as Iíve said so many times, itís just a vocal effect. If it existed in the 60s, all of them would have used the hell out of it. The Beach Boys would have used it, The Beatles already love doing tons of vocal experimentation, so you know their voices wouldíve been drowning in Digital effects if they existed at that time. So, just like double tracking, just like reverb, just like vocoders, or any other filter, it can be used fantastically, and it can be used horribly.

Every time I bring this up there is a 10 page back-and-forth that results from it, but Brian speeding up 'Caroline, No' was definitely an example of using technology to manipulate vocals. So with that in mind I don't get why people are shocked about the possibility of Brian using some slight pitch-correction in his songs in modern times.

As for reviews, I donít really take them seriously. Heís an older artist working with newer artists, and there will always be that Subsection of people who just hate modern music, so anything that might even come close to sounding modern bothers them.

I guess many of the negative reviews on this very forum were shocking in terms of how rude they were ("stupid fucking pop song"). And for 99.9% of other artists I don't really care about reviews either (and don't give them too much thought) - I guess I see it differently with Brian. He is nearly 80 years old, half a lifetime of drug abuse, mental illness, controlled by a psychotic doctor for years...with all that in mind I don't get how people can be so mean to the guy. He just wants to record some music, and when he does people sh*t all over it complaining it's not the 1960s Brian we're getting. The guy is manic-depressive with schizoaffective disorder, he hears voices that tell him to kill himself daily, and supposed fans spent months here criticizing NPP. It just made ZERO sense to me.

*And yeah, I criticize Mike Love's recent offerings, but I criticize them based on his own standards he set for Brian in that 'Right Time' interview ("no autotune").

As for Joe Thomas, iím not a huge fan of his adult contemporary style of production, but it bothered me way more on Imagination than NPP and TWGMTR, and obviously I have no ill will towards the guy. If Brian grooves with Thomas, and this music makes him happy, thatís whatís important.

I would like to know the deal with Brian suing Thomas to get out of recording another album with him after Imagination...Did Brian hate working with the guy that much?

Recently I've been listening to Imagination more and more and I really do like the album. Brian once stated that "We call it a Brian Wilson album, but it's really a Joe Thomas/Brian Wilson album." - if you embrace that and see it more like the VDPs/BW OCA album, I think it makes more sense.

Actually, that's something I can add to this unpopular opinion list: I think Imagination is terribly underrated. Brian sounds awesome on it, there are some crazy beautiful moments peppered throughout it, and aside from a couple obvious AC stereotypes that Joe clearly through in the mix, it does sound like a pure Brian Wilson album (his vocal harmonizations are so perfect that you know he wasn't half-assing this album.
Nice to see a defense of an album i loved when it came out. Brian has often talked about wanting to make music that helps and heals; it was healing music for me back in 1998, played it constantly. Imagination and OCA were two of my favorite albums of the 90's. I guess the A/C touches didn't bother me, because my tastes lean more to the soft side. Oh sure, once in a while i need some aggressive music to work some anger out of my system, but most of the time i want healing, positive music.
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« Reply #1556 on: July 26, 2020, 06:20:52 PM »

On the topic of reviews

Iíve said this a few times when Brianís albums and concerts are reviewed somewhat negatively. While I appreciate his issues, unfortunately when you are charging a fee, whether it be the price of an album or a concert, I think you do have some entitlement to comment, not that that gives you the right to be just downright rude or insulting.
Some may remember he used to do a free Christmas song every year and one year he got slammed as it was not as good as others. Totally unacceptable some of the personal comments and the song itself was the last from memory. It was just his little gift to us and some just went way overboard. Fortunately there doesnít seem to have been a repeat with those recent Ďat homeí performances.
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« Reply #1557 on: July 26, 2020, 07:42:24 PM »

On the topic of reviews

Iíve said this a few times when Brianís albums and concerts are reviewed somewhat negatively. While I appreciate his issues, unfortunately when you are charging a fee, whether it be the price of an album or a concert, I think you do have some entitlement to comment, not that that gives you the right to be just downright rude or insulting.
Some may remember he used to do a free Christmas song every year and one year he got slammed as it was not as good as others. Totally unacceptable some of the personal comments and the song itself was the last from memory. It was just his little gift to us and some just went way overboard. Fortunately there doesnít seem to have been a repeat with those recent Ďat homeí performances.
I get what your saying, but buying a Brian Wilson album, or  going to one of his concerts, you should know what youíre expecting. And with how digital technology works these days, if youíre not sure that youíre gonna like an album, preview it. There are streaming services that will let you play the album, you can find it on YouTube, iTunes and Amazon have previews of every song, etc.
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« Reply #1558 on: July 27, 2020, 03:52:32 AM »

Yeah, if I recall correctly NPP went up pretty much immediately on YouTube. And one of the guys who did that ďsatiricalĒ review was gifted the album free by another generous member of the forum...so not only did Brian get trashed in that review but Iím pretty sure the person who gifted that album didnít feel too great that they spent their own hard-earned money just to have the album be publicly mocked.

And no matter how much you feel ripped off, there is no excuse when you compare the artist in question to a half-dead grandfather in a wheelchair being forced to talk to his family at a dinner table. Spending what is the equivalent of a couple items on a McDonalds menu doesnít justify how people tried to dehumanize Brian during that time.

And while everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion regardless of how they acquire/listen to the album, from the start of the first ďOn The IslandĒ clip people were already going overboard with negativity and it was just a 10 second clip that didnít even have a direct audio feed. Point being, I think many members who around then were looking for any excuse to hate the album before it was even fully released.

And Funky Pretty, I do understand where youíre coming from, and I agree that people have every right to write negative reviews - but I think people went way too far out of their way to trash the thing. There were actually a lot of negative reviews where people would explain their dislikes in a mature fashion...so Iím not at all against negative reviews when it comes to Brian, Iím just against the way some people berate and write about him as if heís a vegetable with zero feelings.
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« Reply #1559 on: July 27, 2020, 06:34:41 AM »

Nice to see a defense of an album i loved when it came out. Brian has often talked about wanting to make music that helps and heals; it was healing music for me back in 1998, played it constantly. Imagination and OCA were two of my favorite albums of the 90's. I guess the A/C touches didn't bother me, because my tastes lean more to the soft side. Oh sure, once in a while i need some aggressive music to work some anger out of my system, but most of the time i want healing, positive music.

Well Iím glad to see that other people like it as well. I agree that it is a really calming and healing album - in ĎHappy Daysí when Brian sings the ďnature, oh natureĒ line, that gets me every time. And he sounds like heís barely out of his 20s in parts of ĎShe Says That She Needs Meí.
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« Reply #1560 on: July 27, 2020, 04:58:13 PM »

I just wanted to thank both of you for the very kind words about that review, it really means a lot to me! I still feel very passionate about the NPP album overall, and I still hold the same opinions as I wrote back in 2015, with the exception of maybe one or two tracks that have not aged as well as their counterparts on the album over these 5 years. I think the album sounds amazing from a pure sonic angle, and the way the backing tracks are tightly arranged to allow some intricate layered parts to bust out of the mix really enhances the high sound quality of both the recording and mix.

If anything I undersold it; I really enjoyed reading your review so much. Love the passion behind it and it's contagious!

I quite agree too, NPP has well stood the test of time. It still sounds lovely to my ears, and it's still cool that Brian took some chances working with contemporary artists and a wide range of styles. He should be very proud of it.



Thank you!  Smiley

It's a great album, I hope everyone gives it a spin with a fresh set of ears and perspectives now that it's over 5 years old.
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« Reply #1561 on: July 27, 2020, 05:17:32 PM »

Yeah, if I recall correctly NPP went up pretty much immediately on YouTube. And one of the guys who did that ďsatiricalĒ review was gifted the album free by another generous member of the forum...so not only did Brian get trashed in that review but Iím pretty sure the person who gifted that album didnít feel too great that they spent their own hard-earned money just to have the album be publicly mocked.

And no matter how much you feel ripped off, there is no excuse when you compare the artist in question to a half-dead grandfather in a wheelchair being forced to talk to his family at a dinner table. Spending what is the equivalent of a couple items on a McDonalds menu doesnít justify how people tried to dehumanize Brian during that time.

And while everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion regardless of how they acquire/listen to the album, from the start of the first ďOn The IslandĒ clip people were already going overboard with negativity and it was just a 10 second clip that didnít even have a direct audio feed. Point being, I think many members who around then were looking for any excuse to hate the album before it was even fully released.

And Funky Pretty, I do understand where youíre coming from, and I agree that people have every right to write negative reviews - but I think people went way too far out of their way to trash the thing. There were actually a lot of negative reviews where people would explain their dislikes in a mature fashion...so Iím not at all against negative reviews when it comes to Brian, Iím just against the way some people berate and write about him as if heís a vegetable with zero feelings.


I couldn't agree more. And there were even more examples that we could list of the ridiculous ways this one album and the guy who made it was being trashed and denigrated by so-called "fans" of his work.

Without going into too much detail, that "review" was so absurd that the two so-called fans who concocted it couldn't even agree with each other whether it was a serious review or satire when asked. That pretty much sums up the review and maybe the authors too. And one took so much offense to people challenging his "review", I guess it was beyond comprehension that people would disagree with those opinions and give reasons why. All over an album that was given as a gift in the first place. Very sad situation all around.

Also on the list was when a "review" supposed to be focused on the new single The Right Time somehow turned into a platform to interview Mike Love, who didn't even hear the single at the time yet saw fit to comment and expand on whatever else was in that article. Still saying WTF over that one. And wondering too if Mike has taken the time to listen to the song or the album in the years since that debacle.

And add in all the chestnuts like those who insisted Brian was "forced" by either the label or his "handlers" to work with his guest musicians, with some saying he had no clue who those artists even were...Then the truth came out that in fact Brian's kids had suggested and even played those artists for their dad in a few cases, and in one specific case an artist who some of these 'experts' claimed Brian didn't know had actually babysat Brian's kids years ago. Little things like that in the name of denigrating a new album, I don't get it.

A lot can be implied as well from remembering how a lot of posts made against the album here were made by either new or dormant accounts with less than 5 posts in the full term of their membership.

So the question is also *why* was there such an effort to trash Brian, his guest artists, and the album...existing alongside trying to figure out *who* was doing it beyond the surface level names on forums like this.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 05:20:34 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #1562 on: July 28, 2020, 04:46:27 PM »

Quote
All over an album that was given as a gift in the first place.

I agree with this so much, and want to add to this idea. I think this is something that many fans forget: the heart and soul that brought us Pet Sounds was at one point very much on the verge of death. Considering how Dennis went, and considering just how off the edge Brianís mind/body went, it is absolutely a miracle that he is alive and well today.

So from my perspective I think that anything that Brian shares with us today is a blessing. Even if Joe Thomas throws some generic chords down and Brian comes up with a melody, that melody is a gift to us - its a melody we were very close to never ever hearing.

And not everything he has done in the last three decades is worthy of fawning over. But I also wish that before people rushed to write some harsh critique that berates Brian and his music, that those people would ponder that Brian almost never had the chance to write another song or enter another recording studio again.

Again, not saying we canít write negative reviews about his music, but the NPP reviews went so far off the deep end in terms of being completely rude - for reasons I canít even imagine.
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« Reply #1563 on: July 28, 2020, 05:02:11 PM »

Quote
All over an album that was given as a gift in the first place.

I agree with this so much, and want to add to this idea. I think this is something that many fans forget: the heart and soul that brought us Pet Sounds was at one point very much on the verge of death. Considering how Dennis went, and considering just how off the edge Brianís mind/body went, it is absolutely a miracle that he is alive and well today.

So from my perspective I think that anything that Brian shares with us today is a blessing. Even if Joe Thomas throws some generic chords down and Brian comes up with a melody, that melody is a gift to us - its a melody we were very close to never ever hearing.

And not everything he has done in the last three decades is worthy of fawning over. But I also wish that before people rushed to write some harsh critique that berates Brian and his music, that those people would ponder that Brian almost never had the chance to write another song or enter another recording studio again.

Again, not saying we canít write negative reviews about his music, but the NPP reviews went so far off the deep end in terms of being completely rude - for reasons I canít even imagine.
Great perspective, I like this a lot. Thanks. Smiley

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« Reply #1564 on: July 28, 2020, 06:06:33 PM »

Thinking about this and reading the posts here, even 5 years later I am shocked at how low down in the gutter some "fans" actually went to trash Brian Wilson and his album, and it wasn't just slamming the music either. I still can't believe it, and we haven't even listed all of the crap that went down, including the subsequent lies about what actually happened. I still ask how did it get to that point, why did they do it, and who was behind some of the more seemingly orchestrated efforts to trash it.

We discovered some of the motives from certain elements, such as the "critic" who came on this forum and the tag-team reviewers who couldn't agree with each other if it was real or parody, but for a lot of others I think it came down to certain people enjoying the acts of trolling and disrupting (and destroying) more than they ever could just enjoy something for what it is and let others enjoy it too. 
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