The Smiley Smile Message Board

Seen these on other forums. Figured I'd start one here. Don't try to kill each other ok?  :lol
-I've never heard Summer of Paradise but I have a hard time believing it's worse then Beach Boys 85. Aside from Getcha Back...dear god.
-I...kinda like I Just Got My Pay over Marcella.
-I like When Girls Get Together...but it is one of the weakest early 70's tracks for sure. Ditto Endless Summer.
-Love You is great...but there are some REALLY weak tracks on there.
-Speaking of that, Good Time is VERY underrated.
-As a Beach Boys album, M.I.U stinks...but I love it as an easy listening album (especially Come Go with Me)
-Mt. Vernon and Fairway is better without Jack Riley's narration.
-SMiLE's version of Wind Chimes is better then Smiley Smile's but Smiley's has a better tag.
-Little Pad is another VERY underrated song and the stereo version blew my mind!  :lol
-Sunflower is a CLOSE second to Pet Sounds. I may even consider it #1 but some songs are really bad (Got to Know the Woman especially)

Damn. Those are even more unpopular than the New York Mets!

"Does anyone actually like that surf and cars sh*t they did before Pet Sounds?"

"Pacific Ocean Blue sounds like the soundtrack to a Michael Mann movie"

"If mike love had only stayed in rishikesh pumping gas and selling it to the Beatles, Brian might have been able to finish smile in time to play Monterey and change the course of musical history with his ahead of its time 3 movement prog opera."

"Carl's voice really grates."

I don't know if any one of those is actually an unpopular Beach Boys opinion. I think most members of the board would agree with you on most of those. Excepting the SIP one. And maybe IJGMP vs. Marcella ...

* SMILE is overrated, especially compared to Smiley (except 'Good Vibrations')

* Adult Child is a lost classic

* The greatest missing link in the Beach Boys story is the scrapped Manson recordings

* the stereo Pet Sounds is weird

* TWGMTR is a sham

* Keepin the Summer Alive is a masterpiece compared to anything that came after, except the Paley sessions

* The Beach Boys died in 1983

* Brian Wilson hasn't really produced an album since FRIENDS

* Brian Wilson hasn't really produced a track since 'Break Away'

* Brian Wilson cannot legitimately approve a stereo mix

 Some  interesting postulations, DonnyL.

 Please elaborate on the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS being "weird." I've had the same feeling yet never managed to articulate it.

 I definitely believe Brian Wilson produced all those versions of "Shortenin' Bread", long after "Break Away."

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 Carl Wilson's singing on parts of WILD HONEY verges on shrill.

 The studio version of "Funky Pretty" is a dud.

 L.A. (Light Album) would be a minor classic if just a couple of songs were deleted/added.

 "Student Demonstration Time" isn't half bad. It is rock & roll, at least.

"Please Let Me Wonder" is overrated.

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Sunflower is boring.

Brian Wilson is great- but nonetheless over-rated and lazy...

I like Stamos' vocal, too. However, I never got the comparison with the lead vocals. The arrangements for both "Forever" versions are too different, and Dennis' and Stamos' voices aren't similar enough to compare. I know a lot of people don't like the SIP version of "Forever", but I think it contains one of the most emotional parts that Carl Wilson ever sang. Actually, the unpopularity of SIP also hides the fact that the album is one of Carl's finest - vocally, IMO of course.

Don't care much for Dennis Wilson or his music.

Pet Sounds is better without Sloop John B.

TWGMTR is their best album since Surf's Up.

That Lucky Old Sun was pretty bad. Spoken word bits were an embarrassment.

Dance Dance Dance is one of their greatest records.

I agree with 85 being pretty close to SIP except Getcha Back
Good Time is underrated
MIU is a good mor background LP
I agree the Smile Wind Chimes is better except for the tag
Little Pad is cool
Sunflower is right at the top for me, but Got To Know The Woman is hardly the weakest moment. Not even close.
Adult Child is not a lost classic, but I like it way more than Love You

Stereo Pet Sounds isn't "weird" just not needed.

The Beach Boys died in 1983 is true in a way

Brian has produced LP's since Friends, and 45's since Break Away, but they do mark the end of his total leadership.

The stereo thing is pretty true, Brian told me that himself. He likes some of the results as far how well he can hear them, but can't tell stereo from mono.

TWGMTR is my favorite group LP since Holland. TLOS is really good but the spoken parts....not so much. Dance x 3 is a great record.

Glad to see there are more and more here who like this album. I think it's a pretty good, very unappreciated album.

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^Same here.

Thirded. Though, I don't always prefer a stereo mix just because it's in stereo. PS in mono (on a decent system) is muddy and dull. Plus, the Everly Bros tape bleedthrough on IWFTD and the chatter on Here Today seal the deal....

After years of deliberation I decided the mono is the one for me- listen to IJWMFTT at .05 seconds in on mono and you hear a strange organ wash type sound... it is nowhere to be found on stereo...the bass sucks on LGAFA, obviously BW's double tracked vocal is missing on YSBIM, and all the background chatter adds to the feel of the music IMO...

All well, not to derail this thread, I will say-

Dennis' vocal kinda sucks on In the Back of My Mind, and Brian's decision to have him sing the lead to that is worse...imagine the possibilities of the harmonies over the bridge section, a Carl lead vocal, the guys trading off parts...such a great song and a blah kinda vocal line...

Fourthed-PS came alive in 1996.

I guess my truly unpopular opinions are as follows --

Brian Wilson related

-- Brian is much more in control of his solo career than the doubters believe.
-- Brian manipulates Melinda (into doing his dirty work) far more than the other way around
-- Brian's production and writing credits post-1980 are generally deserved and appropriate (not saying they always are, just in the main)
-- GIOMH is a truly solid record
-- Joe Thomas is one of Brian's best recent songwriting collaborators
-- Jeff does a consistently nice job on the falsetto parts

Beach Boys related

-- The single version of HMR is one of the best things they ever did
-- Break Away does not sound like hit
-- Lots of Pet Sounds just sounds too alike for my tastes
-- I really dig many of the 15BO arrangements and vocals. They're nutty, but in a fun way.
-- Carl had approximately two good songs in him.
-- Dennis had a couple more.
-- Al has -- at the present time -- more of an idea of how to make a classic-sounding Beach Boys record than any other member of the band. Postcards just sounds right.

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Fan opinions and ratings of songs and albums seem to rise and fall cyclically, what was undisputed truth ten years ago is now "disproved."

So some Now unpopular opinions:

Mike had much to do with Smile's demise.

Sound of Free was Mike's last good lyric.

I agree that Al has a better sense of what makes a Beach Boys sounding record than anyone in the group - and he proved that on MIU.  But unlike Carl or Brian or Dennis, Al's production is always derivative rather than innovative.

The stereo mix of Pet Sounds is a better way to appreciate Brian's production genius than the rushed, muddy, mistake filled mono mix.

The Al produced Cottonfields single is markedly inferior to Brian's 20/20 version.

Disney Girls is way overrated - it's just as schlocky as Bruce's other songs.

They won a doubleheader today  :P

Some unpopular opinions of mine:

Dennis wasn't as good a songwriter as many Beach Boys fans make him out to be.
Ricky and Blondie did not make meaningful contributions to the group, at all.
On that note, Holland is a bad album. Not because it's incompetent, but because it is boring.
Love You is the best Beach Boys album after Pet Sounds.
Pet Sounds, though, is the only essential Beach Boys LP.
Beach Boy music is actually good for the beach, barbeques, and cruises.

The mono mix of I'm Waiting For The Day has faint sounds of The Everly Brothers' "(You Got) The Power Of Love" - you can mainly hear it in the first verse. This is not present on the stereo remix at all. Must have been the tape they used for the mono mixdown.

Hell yeah. Honestly...I feel it is a great production of a poorly written song. Dennis's vocals aren't bad, but the melody itself is IMHO one of the weakest of Brian's career.

Here are mine...

-Don't Hurt My Little Sister sucks . Out of every song the Beach Boys ever recorded, this is the only song I have barely one positive thing to say about. It sounds unfinished, and I think if anybody else had sung it, others would hate it as much as I do.

- I love every Beach Boys album from All Summer Long onwards until Still Cruisin...except LA Light.

-I love Brian's voice through all of the stages. That said, I prefer his voice from 1966 onwards to what came before, even the mid-70s era. Sometimes, especially so.

- No secret that Friends and 20/20 are my favorite BB albums. What few know is I prefer MIU to Today.

- I think Carl's vocals from 1976-1980 are generally terrible with a few exceptions.

- Pet Sounds is a great album, but I'd rather listen to Friends, 20/20, Wild Honey, Sunflower, So Tough, Holland, and Surf's Up. I still feel it's one of the greatest albums of all time, but I have to be in the right mood to listen to it.

-Everybody Wants to Live is one of my favorite Brian songs.

Can't stand Dennis' vocals post-CATP.
Can barely get through LA Light. I like Good Timin, Lynda, and Sumahama....that's it.
BB'85 for me is one of their most solid albums.
Love You is severely overrated on this board.
Wish Break Away was on Sunflower.

what about the night was so young? dontcha like it?

I like Marcella, but I Just Got My Pay is way cooler and is the betterest of the two - not everybody knows a Marcella who also happens to be a stripper masseuse, but anybody can relate to just getting their pay from the crappy job they slave at.  

Pet Sounds is not the greatest album ever made, it's only one of the greatest on a list of many many many other albums.   The album cover too, though now iconic, is crap and does not serve the music on the record at all.

Dennis Wilson should have written more uptempo/rocking out tunes (but not like Got To Know The Woman) and cut down a bit on the over-emotive ballads (though many are indeed works of transcendent beauty).  

Surfer Girl is a better over all album than All Summer Long.  Every track on it is good and enjoyable, it has a decent flow, and it epitomizes the band in a more sincere way than ASL does (though ASL does contain some classic tracks)

Sunflower is so overrated it's really amazing.    It's wonderfully produced, but the flow stinks and there's really only a handful of truly excellent material.  

Carl and The Passions needs to get more love.   It has no flow, but each of the songs are really good.  It was also the first album since Smile collapsed where they did not hook the album to a Smile relic.  This is the band for the first time standing as their own completely (albeit with some amount of participation by Brian).  

I want Smiley Smile to be played at my funeral ....followed by Friends - which really is one of the best pop albums ever made anywhere in any lifetime by anyone.
Two nice, short, sweet and wildly different albums to send this potato off into the mystery........

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Here are a few of mine and let me state in advance, --Just sayin'--

With the exception of three songs, Smiley Smile sounds totally amateurish.

None of the albums after Surf's Up is worth writing home about.

I'll take Student Demo Time over Take a Load Off or Don't Go Near the Water any day.

Bluebirds is a goofy song, but I'll take it over All I Want to Do.

Got to Know the Woman ain't half bad.  Better than roughly half of Dennis' weepy ballads.

Brian killed SMiLE, not Mike.

And yes, I spell it SMiLE.  Deal!

The Love/Melcher songwriting team came up with some catchy tunes.

Mike Love and Al Jardine were the only Beach Boys to fulfill their potential. Brian, Carl, Dennis, and Bruce, all in their different ways, blew it.

Jack Rieiey's vocal on 'A Day in the Life of a Tree' enhances the song.

So...

I think Friends is incredibly overrated. I like "Diamond Head" a lot, and the title track is nice, but over the years I've just lost my love for it. I used to really dig it.

I think Dennis wrote a few really awesome songs, but overall I don't think he's an incredible talent.

The 1971 "Surf's Up" is by far my favorite version of the song, with the 1967 version from the Wild Honey era coming in second.

I don't understand why That Lucky Old Sun is looked at as such a great work for Brian. I really don't care for most of it. Maybe one day I'll get it.

Joe Thomas produces the best modern day Brian vocals, and I'm personally happy Brian's continuing to work with him, since Brian's forte is vocals (along with songwriting).

I think Bruce is pretty lame overall, and don't like many of his songs, but for some reason I kinda like "Slow Summer Dancing (One Summer Night)".

I also think the "contemporary" stuff on Still Cruisin' is pretty great, besides "Wipe Out". I really love "Make It Big", "Still Cruisin'", "Island Girl", etc.

1. Charles Manson should have taken Brian's place in the late 60's on tour then the murders would have never happened.
2.Brian should have produced some of Elvis' movie soundtracks like "Girls, girls, girls" etc
3.Dennis faked his death
4.Brian's next cd is going to be a full fledged Christian rock cd
5."Good vibrations" should have had a part 2 on the flip side.
6. the H&V single should have been parts 1 and 2 but the length should have been 10 minutes per side.
7.Murry Wilson tried to "Knock off" Jan Berry, hence his car wreck
8.they had a long lost brother named Gummo and a sister who was kept tied up in the basement and is still there till this day.
9.Brian and Spector should have done a duet album together back in the 90's
10. "Oh yeah" and "Fig plucker" are their best songs out of all of them
11."Kokomo" should have been a bigger hit
12. Al Jardine is the true genius of the group.
13.Bruce Johnston should have given them "I write the songs" to record
14. "The many moods of Murry Wilson" should have had the beach boys name and voices on it.
15. "Love You" should have been titled "Hate You".
16.MIU is too good to have the beach boys name on it.
17. keeping the summer alive should have had a photo of the band giving someone CPR/ Heart Shock on the cover
18.Everybody want's to live for the most part but life is for the living only for few people
19.Fun Fun Fun should be about sex and having the bed being taken away.
20.the beach boys next cd should be all rap...

If you include stuff from that time period in the vaults, you can make every single album far more listenable, especially from the 15BO - KTSA era.

His leads on Light Album were about my limit. I'll never own POB or Bambu.

and C50 related.

Line-up aside. The tour was the most professional of the bands career.

Not one group statement, press release, interview or appearance gave any indication it was going to last.

TWGMTR was better suited to Barry Manilow. More Bruce than Brian.

A decent lyric first time on IIT and a push from Capitol may have reaped rewards.


Cool thread. Will add some more later maybe. ;)

- Pet Sounds is utterly bland and boring at best. Totally overrated.
- Surf's Up is the last really good song Brian wrote, then it was downhill from there
- I hate Brian's Shortening Bread songs
- Dennis should have been the band's musical leader post-1973, POB sounding music instead of MIU and LA
- I don't understand why they lost the ability to write songs >80's. Even I can come up with better songs (my opinion)

Congratulations! You win for posting THE most unpopular Beach Boys opinion yet! :-D

Do I win a copy of Pet Sounds? :)

Well...
Got To Know The Woman is bloody fantastic - you hear me: it's fantastic!;
I don't think Mt. Vernon is better without Jack Rieley's narration, his speaking voice works brilliantly throughout and the musical interludes still get plenty of opportunity to shine;
I Just Got My Pay is vastly inferior to Marcella - IJGMP is a throwaway but fun ditty, Marcella is a well-crafted pop/rock gem with a superb fade;
Summer In Paradise likewise is vastly inferior to Beach Boys '85 - in fact, Beach Boys '85 is often very good, especially Where I Belong which is criminally under-rated;
When Girls Get Together is a sack of crap.

I can't believe I just read that. :o

Surf's Up 1971 > any other version of same.
Transcendental Meditation is the perfect track to close side 2 of the Friends LP.

They made better albums than Pet Sounds. Why 99.9% of the band's acclaim rests on this one album (and it's scrapped followup) is a mystery to me.

I don't know about better, but certainly equal to it. And a couple feature individual songs better than any single Pet Sounds track ...

YES

Bruce is a lazy, talent-light jerk.
He's written one and a half good songs in fifty years (Disney Girls and Deirdre), otherwise it's all schmaltzy sappy gloop.

Let's look back through his history with the band...

He was with the Beach Boys for four years, presumably - you would imagine - itching to contribute a song or two. And when the opportunity duly arose on 20/20 what did we get? Some elevator musak and a sh*t cover version.
He then ruined Sunflower with the eternally atrocious Tears In The Morning, an overlong, boring, corny turd amongst a sea of pop perfection.
Then when the forward-thinking Jack Rieley became their manager - recruiting two South Africans to the band line-up - a genius move! - and restoring the group's reputation in the process - what did Bruce do? He quit. Because, you know, never mind that it was the early seventies and the band had to be cool and relevant to be popular - Bruce just wanted to carry on singing his sentimental vomit-inducing cheese-fests.
He then wrote I Write The Songs. No further comment required.
He then returned to the group, just in time to ruin L.A. Light Album with a soul-destroyingly awful disco remake of HCTN, thus ruining both their new album and the memory of the terrific Wild Honey original in the process.
He then inserted his head up the anus of Mike Love, where it has remained ever since. He removes it only occasionally, usually so he can stand around doing hand claps on stage, or so he can spout unpleasant right-wing rich-boy nastiness, or so he can slag off Friends and make history-rewriting selective-memory comments re Smile (Bruce ten years ago: ''Brian had us crawling around on our hands and knees. It was all so fucking embarrassing'').
  

Here's one that is unpopular on this site -

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys and the others are just his messengers"

Here's another one that ain't really liked much round these parts

"Mike Love, despite having a few saving graces, is actually quite an unpleasant individual"

(Not that these are my opinions of course.  :angel:)

Oh dear, and I've got you "Goin' Solo" for your birthday. Oops

edit

I of course mean "Goin' Pubic"

My unpopular opinions:

*** The Beach Boys' a capella studio recordings don't sound very good (mostly because Brian is mixed in too loudly).

*** I could take-or-leave the instrumentals on Pet Sounds and (gasp!) "Caroline, No".

*** Much of Wild Honey sounds empty and incomplete ("Here Comes the Night", "A Thing of Two", "Aren't You Glad"), and thus not as enjoyable as it easily could have been.

*** Pacific Ocean Blue / Bambu mostly sound like a guy wallowing in a bar (in a not-very-good way).

*** M.I.U. is a terrific album, nearly perfect (minus the mediocre "Peggy Sue" cover and atrocious Mike Love "Belles of Paris" contribution).  It seems more childlike of Brian and endearing to me than Love You.

*** Both Holland and Love You are overrated.  (Seriously, I don't get the obsession with the former; maybe I'll understand someday.)

*** Carl's "gruff" voice is annoying ("You Need a Mess of Help", "Marcella", others)--sounds kinda like a frog.

*** The Beach Boys' use of rockin' guitar is super annoying most of the time--sounds like they are trying desperately to sound cool ("Bluebirds over the Mountain", "All I Want to Do", "Student Demonstration Time", others--"It's About Time" is their only success at this style of guitar).

Here are some that I've expressed overt the years, and also some new ones.

Island fever could have been a hit if promoted well, and if it had been the second single off of SIP.

LA was the best studio album of the 70s, followed by Carl and the passions, then sunflower, then surfs up, love you, Holland, miu, 15bo.

 I'm not a big fan of "cry" on the imagination album, but I love "sunshine" from the same album.

"Shelter" sounds like it has nothing to do with the beach boys, and should have been on a Brian solo album.

I love summer in paradise! For years it was in my top 10 bb albums, and although it no longer is, I still enjoy it, particularly hot fun in the summertime.

Still cruisin is one of my favorite songs to hear in the car, I never grow tired of it.

I like a lot of the tracks that Mike's band Celebration did, even the ones that had no beach boy involvement.

Pacific ocean blue is far far better than bambu would ever have been, even if it had been completed.

The single version of its ok is 10000x more enjoyable than the album version. Ditto the single version of rock and roll music.

No, maybe, maybe, no, no, yes.




I like half of MIU better than any other post-Sunflower 70s BBs songs.

Although they had a few really good songs, The Beach Boys didn't become a truely great band until 1965.

All their car songs suck.

A compilation of Dennis's Beach Boys songs would kick POB's ass very, very hard.

That Lucky Old Sun and That's Why God Made The Radio are among the ten best albums that The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson ever made.

Tears in the Morning, Deirdre and Disney Girls are really good songs.

Sunflower is the best Beach Boys album.

If Mike hated Dennis's guts, you can't really blame him.

Girl Don't Tell Me, California Girls and Summer Means New Love are the only songs on Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) that are really good.

The Beach Boys should have split up after Friends.

Goin Pubic....Never heard of that one. Brazilian release is it? ;)

"Got To Know The Woman" is a great song. It's really fun and fits the mood of the album.

"Funky Pretty" gets really boring with the outro tag and the little electronic beeps are irritating.

The last two songs on "Friends" are really poor.

The spoken word part of the California Saga is fantastic. It adds to the mystique and wonder of the trilogy and really sets a tone of Big Sur and California.

Carl And The Passions- So Tough is a really good album. The songs are really amazing.

Absolutely love the Light Album.

In no way is Love You "overrated" by anyone. :)

I like "Lahaina Aloha" much better than most of the songs on TWGMTR, even though that's a very decent album.

Big fan of "Bill and Sue".

I really enjoy the overall production of 15 Big Ones and think the only real weak spots are Alan and Mike's originals.

Wouldn't change a single thing about the overall sound of Wild Honey. Near-perfect album.

I like most of the group's 80s singles and really enjoyed the somewhat frequent discussions about that material on the Male Ego board.

CATP and Holland are both fantastic but I find it perfectly reasonable Blondie and Ricky weren't part of the C50 reunion. They should've guested occasionally, though.

Brian Wilson's first solo album is HORRIBLE.

I love the idea of this thread, but those statements don't strike me as Beach Boy "hot button" issues... they don't seem to be things that people would have passionate beliefs about, although I haven't read the rest of the comments yet, so maybe I'm wrong...

First of all - I have to say this is the coolest thread I've seen on here in a while! GREAT IDEA!!

Second - Bicyclerider - you must be joking! I find it to be an EXTREMELY POPULAR view that Mike was the MAIN reason behind the demise of Smile. Have you seen the Beautiful Dreamer doc? Mike is really the only SUBSTANTIVE reason that is given for why Smile wasn't finished, aside from some vague references to Brian starting to get paranoid, and a very quick reference to the lawsuit against Capitol. I just could not disagree with you more. I think what's unpopular is to suggest that Mike Love was NOT the primary reason for Smile's demise, and in fact had more to do with Brian's drug use, lack of focus, and simple inability to realize his vision.

Third - some of my unpopular opinions:

-Summer in Paradise is very enjoyable and has at least two classics on it
-KTSA is GREAT
-BB 85 is awful
-MIU is awful
-Holland blows
-Problem child is fantastic
-Beaches in Mind is fantastic
-Mike Love is NOT the reason Smile fell apart.
-Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar are an interesting footnote in the BBs history, nothing more. And their songs sucked.
-Brian Wilson Presents Smile is horrible. Just horrible.

I'll leave it at that!!  ;D

That Brian killed Smile and not Mike is now the PARTY LINE around these parts.  Better look further for an unpopular opnion!  :)

But wasn't it Mike who said to Brian, when that building burned down across the street, "Now look what you've done with recording that crazy fire music? This wouldn't have happened if you had written some new surf songs with me!" And didn't Mike tell Brian that this journalist's girlfriend was a witch who's doing mindf*cks with him? Or do I mix something up? :o

Yes and yes!

- 'Summer's Gone' is one of the most beautiful, emotional and breathtaking Beach Boys songs ever recorded.

- Al Jardine's voice is my least favourite one in the group (aside Bruce's) because I think it lacks personality/a uniqueness of its own.

- Carl and The Passions is a big favourite of mine and my most played BB record.

Eh? That'd be like saying the greatest missing link in The Beach Boys story is Teeter Totter Love, or A World Of Peace Must Come, but I guess those have been released....

Dennis frankly sounds a little sociopathic.

The 1970-1973 period isn't as great as it made out to be.

Anyway, I wonder....

When they're good, The Beach Boys are one of my favourite bands of all time. The songs, production, etc, peerless. Amazing. However, when they're bad, The Beach Boys are simultaneously the worst band I've ever heard, absolutely dreadful - They've really made terrible, gutwrenching crap, especially when you factor in boots.

Of course, this kind of makes me love them more, but still. They've done absolutely abominable things.... especially Brian.

I really dislike I Know There's An Answer/Hang On To Your Ego, the banjo break is the sole redeeming feature.

I like Brian's voice in the 90's - Paley, OCA, etc. The only problem being he didn't quite use it appropriately, ie, dense harmony stacks where he can't quite get the highest notes, on OCA especially, which I think might be peoples biggest problem.

I could listen to acappella mixes of the group all day, and think they're pretty much the best thing besides wholly unreleased tunes on Hawthorne, Endless Harmony, the GV box, etc.

I have absolutely no desire to listen to the 1964 Live Album - I never have, in fact.

The Beach Boys shouldn't have hired Curt Becher & Bruce to do the HCTN Disco Remix, they should have hired The Chic Organisation. If they did, it would have been a work of unparalleled genius instead of a baffling embarrassment with inexplicable monkey noises.

I really like Don't Be Scared off Goin' Public, and at times think Bruce had the most potential to deliver genius/massive comeback records in the group after, IDK, Dennis checked out of songwriting because of his piano chops and harmonic understanding - lyrics, well, that's what a collaborator's for.... (as for Brian, LY, A/C, etc are obviously great, but v left field. And then he got boring and formulaic with MIU, KTSA, and BB85)

Not making 'The Paley Sessions' songs into a new Beach Boys album was possibly the stupidest decision all five of them made. Or at least Carl.

Carl lost his taste in about 1979 - with one towering exception, It's Getting Late. If Prince released that, it would have gone top #20.

And the corollary - the Beach Boys owe their resurgence in popularity to one man - Jack Reilly.  PR baby, PR.

and not as bad as taken from your post above, either. They were positively great as a live band.

I really enjoy the 1977 Christmas material, I like the MIU remakes a whole lot better than the versions on MIU.

Really? How? Please elaborate.

Now that's just plain horse sh*t!

 :)

Agree, strongly disagree, half agree/disagree, agree, 70% agree.

You're right - it's even better.

In fact, I'm so used to hearing people on here saying they don't particularly like or rate Surf's Up/CATP/Holland that I'd say stating that you think all three are absolutely fantastic would a more unpopular opinion...

Mark Linett and Alan Boyd should not be in control of Beach Boys archival releases.

Oh! And why is that, pray tell?

That's pure horse sh*t too!

Surf's Up/CATP/Holland is one of the most fascinating and downright most unusual episodes in any major rock group's history. People should be grateful this stuff even exists. It's a band challenging their own style and history while maintaining their overall identity and reintroducing some deep album cuts from the 60s into their setlists, as well as developing fresh interpretations of their beloved hit material. Take a look at the pictures from that particular time frame, have a listen to Feel Flows, the California Saga, Cuddle Up, and A Day in the Life of a Tree, even He Come Down! This was a uniquely fascinating group peaking one more time right after all must've seemed bleak and lost for them.

-The Wild Honey album is abysmal and the most overrated album in their canon
-Brian's début solo album is unlistenable tripe
-Adult Child is terrible and deserves to stay locked in the vaults for all eternity
-Carl's voice from the late 70's and onwards is annoying, he over sings just about everything

I think what you actually meant to write was: 'The Wild Honey album is utterly fantastic and the most under-rated album in their canon'.

This is an opinion thread. My opinion is that Wild Honey sucks balls. Deal.

I don't see how it's possible to be a Beach Boys fan and dislike Pet Sounds.  If you miss what's great about that album, you miss a lot of what was great about the Beach Boys as well.

My bro was 14 when the band broke big and he was a huge fan. Bought every 45 and LP that came out, but that changed with Pet Sounds. While he liked WIBN, GOK & Sloop, he was not a fan of the album or the direction The Boys' took afterward. He still liked the hits, but that was about it. He really never came back to them until I played him 15 Big Ones in 1976. Some people only like the mainstream stuff. Me, I like all of it, even SIP. ;)

The whole point of this thread is to voice unpopular opinions. I don't think it's the place to try to shut folks down for having them. I certainly appreciate the artistry of Pet Sounds, but most days I would rather listen to several other BB/BW albums.

He does. I don't think he *was* sociopathic, mind -- just messed up in a lot of other ways -- but look at the classic Hare sociopathy checklist http://sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm . Now note, that checklist is *only considered valid when administered by a clinically trained psychologist under controlled conditions*. None of us can possibly diagnose Dennis. But looking at the list:

 1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- Definitely.
2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- Doubtful
3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- Definitely
4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- Don't think so
5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- Don't think so
6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- Don't think so
7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- Definitely not
8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- Defnitely not
9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE  (an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities) -- Arguable
10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS (expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.) -- Definitely
11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- This is Dennis we're talking about
12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- Definitely
13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS (an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.) -- sounds plausible
14. IMPULSIVITY -- Definitely
15. IRRESPONSIBILITY ( repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.) -- Definitely
16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS -- Don't know enough to say
17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS -- This is Dennis we're talking about
18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY -- Definitely
19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE -- No
20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY -- No

So of the twenty things on the checklist, one could argue that Dennis fits eleven of them.

Again, that's not to say that he *was* a sociopath -- but to say that saying he sounds like one isn't unreasonable.

Yeah, it's fantastic, but I'm talking about the album as a whole.

I enjoy Battle Hymn of the Republic.

Andrew beat me to it!

My take is that Dennis seems to really have cared precious little for anyone other than himself, and possibly the band. His treatment of women was abysmal, and he certainly wasn't much of a parent. He basically did whatever he wanted and never had to face the consequences -- until the last few years, when doing so meant that his world collapsed. I don't have a lot of patience for unrepentant f***-ups, which seems to be what Dennis was.

All of this is separate from his music, of course. And while I've called some of his compositions overrated, I do think he was a outstanding producer and distinctive vocalist, and his best songs are very good indeed.

"My World Fell Down" as it is but with Beach Boys vocals would be a better follow-up to Good Vibrations than "Heroes and Villains".

Seems like it's just not OK on this board to criticize the lyrics of the early songs.  People bend over backward to justify them -- some even claim that Brian was expressing spirituality, but masking it through analogies to cars and surfing.

But setting aside the surf/car/high school/summer fun songs, it's the lyrcis for a few others that were really inexcusable.  Wendy ("I can't picture you with him / His future looks awful dim"), Don't Hurt My Little Sister ("Why don't you love her/Like her big brother"), Amusement Parks USA, Salt Lake City, etc.   Horrible, horrible.

Lyrics matter, but you wouldn't know that from reading this board.

I love all those early tunes- I don't put them on that often, but when I do I can't stop listening. Brian may not have been aware of the metaphors, but the songs would become more poetic with the passing of time...especially looking back at how the 60's began, and then how they ended. There is an optimism in those songs that I really resonate with.

And the winner is...

You are correct. Something is lost in the meaning through changes in time. The lyrics were thoughtful and innocent, as were the times, at least for me and my siblings growing up when those songs were released.

Hehe. I can not for the world see why people dislike that track so much. It's groovy.

I of course mean "Goin' Pubic"
[/quote]

Goin Pubic....Never heard of that one. Brazilian release is it? ;)
[/quote]
Best Post Ever !

Anyway - why all the love for Love You ?

Why all the love for Getcha Back ? One of the worst songs on BB85

I like early rock lyrics so I have no problem. Simple is good and I know as a pre college teen I related a lot more to Wendy than Feel Flows.

I would divide that period into two: the Sunflower, Surf's Up Period and the Ricky/Blondie Era. In my (unpopular) opinion the first two albums mentioned are gems but the albums during the Ricky/Blondie era are abysmal.

That brings up another unpopular opinion: Ricky and Blondie weren't true Beach Boys. They were little more than hired hands.

Thanks for elaborating, it's a fascinating perspective. Personally I wouldn't necessarily call the guy an actual f***-up but I can see your point. To me it always seemed like he was trying hard to be a sweet, gentle guy despite his somewhat wild personality. Hence the romantic yet passionate, sometimes overblown music he did. I think he was a very good and sometimes brilliant songwriter as well as an exceptional singer. Would love to know a lot more about the final years of his life. He looks downright weird (and weary) in some of the footage I've seen and then again, kind of cool in other pictures from that particular time frame. Makes it all even more intriguing.

There was that famous incident when David Frost sold heroin to Mike Love on the airport tarmac who then threw his apple jug at Carol Kaye and screamed to Blondie and Ricky: "you're nothing but errand boys sent by grocery clerks!"

After that he wrote the hook to Good Vibrations twice before somebody told him he already came up with it years before.

Also,  "Male Ego" is better than "Help Me Rhonda."

They were official Beach Boys and your opinion cannot change that. Hired hands don't write, sing lead and co-produce.

I better not delve further into my opinion, I've already received one DrBeachboy scolding today. 

Is it just me, or does Brian look like he's masturbating in your avatar?

Hopefully it's just you..

I like to think he's listening to "Good Vibrations"  :lol

Well, David Marks didn't write, sing lead or co-produce, so if Blondie and Ricky were 'hired hands' than what does that make David?

Or to put it another way, of course Blondie and Ricky weren't hired hands. That is just blatantly inaccurate. You can dislike their contributions to the band if you like, but you can't use that as an excuse to rewrite history...

Not just you!   :lol

Clearly Blondie and Ricky were full fledged members of the band, but their songs don't quite feel like Beach Boys songs to me--they sound more like Traffic or something--so it contributes to a sense of stylistic schizophrenia, particularly on Carl & the Passions.  But they certainly helped with their live performances.  In Concert might be their most enduring legacy with the band.

I wasn't trying to argue against history (of course they were "official" Beach Boys). I doubt, however, that they were ever interested in being Beach Boys. They joined primarily because The Flame broke up and they had no where else to turn. They joined the band for selfish reasons, and The Boys hired them for selfish reasons -- they felt they needed them in the band to makeover their image and sound for FM radio. They were hired into the band at a time of need for both parties. The Beach Boys didn't want to be Beach Boys anymore so they hired the most un-Beach Boys-like musicians they could find.

I think because The Beach Boys' legacy is based on them being The Beach Boys  is why they (Ricky and Blondie) were left out of the reunion tour. Their membership was a historical curiosity, rather than a contributing factor to the band's legacy and identity.

Definitely not just you.

I always assumed the poster with that avatar was trying to make some sort of bizarro statement, but didn't know what.

A reference to Gary Usher's comment about Brian one day getting so excited one day playing the piano that he had to go to the bathroom for a big tug of love perhaps?  :)

The beach boys are nothing but "Surfing music" and all their songs sound the same...(I hear that all the time)

You can think whatever your heart desires, but it doesn't make it a correct belief. They were no different in band status than what Bruce has been since his return in 1978 and David on & off since 1997. Check the covers of CATP, Holland & In Concert to be sure. It may have been a short stint, but that doesn't make it so.

I don't like the Reiley era, the BBs true sound and image was not pandering to early 1970s fads.

I don't think it was pandering. They still did their own thing for the most part. As far as just not liking it, well that is your taste and I won't question that part of your statement.

I can see what he's saying about pandering to fads- all the ecology stuff, but I still love that era the most.

seems Mike fits several more of those sociopathic traits than Dennis. i think we're onto something here...


a few of mine:

- Dennis kills it on In The Back of My Mind.
- 20/20 is horrible and depressing for the most part.
- Forever is overrated. Dennis wrote much much better.
- Mike should have been kicked out by 1970, if not sooner, with Dennis taking his role.
- When Girls Get Together is a fine tune.
- it's Brian's voice you hear on the Little Child/Daddy Dear demo.
- the lyrics of I Wanna Pick You Up are humorous, charming and adorable.
- Landy did not prevent Brian from dying an early death.
- Wipe Out with The Fat Boys is a fine single.
- the majority of Mike's leads sounded consistently awful throughout the C50 Tour.  Same with Brian.
 

‍

- 20/20, Sunflower and Surf's Up are good, but could have been much better
- Adult/Child should have been released instead of Love You
- Love You is very over-rated
- If Endless Summer wasn't released, we would've probably never here from the Beach Boys again
- The Beach boys should have turned down to do "You Again?"

Melinda Wilson. The best thing for Brian since Eugene Landy!  :o (Take it any way you want)

Oh...Its the 20th of June for me so Happy Birthday. May your cake be big and chocolate! :woot

I strongly disagree! It's boring right from the start! >:D



Well, I'm not grateful, but that shouldn't make you enjoy them less.



You could do that, but to me the divide is between Sunflower and Surf's Up: pre-Reilly and Reilly period. Surf's Up is a bit less boring to me than the R&B era. (Ricky&Blondie I mean :))

Wild Honey would be a great album if Brian had actually bothered to record and produce it properly. Distorted organ buzzes on Country Air, an electrical buzz throughout Here Comes The Night, static air smothering Let The Wind Blow, at times inaudiable group vocals - the list goes on. I've heard better sounding bootlegs.

It's Brian working with his hired hand. ;D

So you don't like...

Long Promised Road,
Feel Flows,
Til I Die,
Marcella,
All This Is That,
Sail On Sailor,
California Saga,
Trader,
Carry Me Home,
Mt Vernon & Fairway,
the In Concert album?

Really? Wow.

Of these, I like the looped Desper mix of "Til I Die" and certain aspects of Long Promised Road and Carry Me Home. Can't help it!

I like to wear my wife's underwear and listen to Summer In Paradise.....

Hang on, this is the candid admissions thread isn't it?

Next door down.

Great topic idea, Wrightfan, thanks for bringing it up! Definitely one of the most interesting threads I've read on this forum. Agree with half of what's written here. Anyhow:

- I genuinely like every single BBs album starting from Surfin' Safari & counting Stars & Stripes.
- At My Window is not only the best Sunflower track, but also the best BBs song ever.
- Barbara Ann is a jolly good rollicking cover! Never tire of it. That said, the "Everybody say yeah – YEAAAH! YEAAAH – YEAH!.." addition is really unnecessary. To-and-fro dancing with legs is ridiculous.
- Don't know what it is about Brian's voice, but I like all the phases of it, including the worst ones: damaged, off-key, when he slurrs the words or whatever else. Rare case, because usually I am very strict & don't favor such kind of imperfections in other artists. There are only few exceptions of them.
- Sloop John B is the best song off Pet Sounds. No way it's out of place, it's in.
- It'd be very sad if Barnyard didn't exist. To me, it's one of the highlights of The Smile Sessions, dig it both with & without the vocs.
- Al Jardine is the best singer of The BBs in any decade, full stop.
- Carl isn't the voice of an angel – Brian is. If compare their 60s voices, Brian has much more innocent, charming & childlike tone, f.ex. in You Still Believe In Me.
- Guess I'm Dumb is nothing special, though I like Glen's voice in general.
- I don't think of skit tracks as fillers. Same as I don't mind spoken bits in the BBs songs.
- Wipe Out is jolly cool! The video is kinda too, especially the fighting intro & when The BBs do some disc jockey things such as vinyl-rotating.
- Mike's stage banters & choreography are often very entertaining.
- Mike isn't a villain & he certainly wasn't the main reason of Smile demise.
- Dennis is nowhere near the 2nd best songwriter of the group.
- Beaches In Mind is fantastic!
- Forever is severely overrated. I can name at least 3 DW songs better than it.
- Jack Rieley's lead on A Day In The Life of A Tree works very well. Besides, his narration in Mount Vernon & Fairway adds some color to the existing b/g music. Needless to say, I don't listen to Fairy Tale Music.
- "Beach Boys Concert" is a highly underrated live record.
- Every surf instrumental is fine by me. Minus Moon Dawg & studio version of Let's Go Trippin'.
- Marilyn is a good singer; I enjoyed her vocal contributions to the BBs tunes.
- I like every style change & new direction of the band. Even the disco version of Here Comes the Night is not that horrendous to my ears. 
- Don't get what's wrong with Jeff's voice, his falsetto is beautiful! And I surely like his lead on Why Do Fools Fall in Love.
- Modern rendition of Do It Again easily beats out the 20/20 original. Brian's middle-eight is superior than Carl's.
- Autotune is not as bad as most of the Smiley Smilers claim it to be. It's quite tastefully done on TWGMTR & 2012 live album.
- I'm glad that the new record doesn't feature Carl or Dennis's vocals.
- Like Brian himself, I prefer the 60s Dennis rather than the 70s. That's when his voice was at the top.

Brian's vocal on Let Him Run Wild is awful. The great man himself was right - he sounds way too shrill. 

Then who is?

This is better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9a000jHxqo

Brian

That was good, yes. Although I preferred their take on 'Monkey's Uncle', and not just because of that sexy blonde singing with 'em. Phwoaarrr!!!!

That lead me on to the original, which I like to play from time to time. Had no idea Annette died in April.  :(

:-D ;D
Regarding their take on "Let Him Run Wild": that 'sweeter' style of singing the high lead on it makes "Let Him Run Wild" an even better song. Gotta say, I've never enjoyed the song as much as when I listen to the Fendertones version. The original studio version is a cool track as well  - but the live setting, particular arrangement and lead vocal by the Fendertones takes the tune to another level altogether.

That's a tricky question but I dare say Al. I respect if you think otherwise or maybe that Dennis is the 1st best songwriter. After all, we express our own minds here.

2Disney Boy (1985): for awhile, I thought the same, that's why I didn't like Let Him Run before. Now it's the other way around, though I still will go with the 1998 version.

If Al is a better song-writer than Dennis then I'm George Clooney.

I, without a doubt, prefer the released version of 'Big Sur'.

I know you are a huge Dennis fan & respect it, but that is YOUR opinion & I have MINE which differs from YOURS. That is, Al Jardine is the 2nd best songwriter. I like that his songs are filled with positivity, they're all catchy & accessible, plus I like folk music. In short, Al is extremely underrated.

I like Dennis & don't deny that he's got talent. There are a handful of gems in his catalog - both within & outside The BBs. Also, his vocals on Do You Wanna Dance, In The Back of My Mind, This Car of Mine, Surfers Rule, bridge of Girls on the Beach are the chief reasons why I like these songs. But generally, his music is a bit too downbeat & depressing to my taste & mostly I'm not a fan of his 70s voice.

+1! Totally forgot to mention it. The other one sounds like a dull commercial music for Bounty chocolate, too slow.

But in his entire songwriting career, Al has only written *one* song for the Beach Boys that's actually in any way original. Other than All This Is That, everything else has been a minor rewrite of someone else's song. Al's an incredibly underrated singer, a surprisingly competent producer, and seemingly by far the nicest person out of the band members, and I like his solo album a *lot* -- but he's not so much a songwriter as a song rewriter.

I know it's my opinion, and I never for one minute implied any differently. However the fact remains: if Al is a better song-writer than Dennis then I'm George Clooney.

Controversial...

MIU is a fantastic Beach Boys album

Imagination is Brian's best solo album -- and probably the most accomplished Beach Boys album since Pet Sounds

Surfin' Safari is a fantastic record

76-83 is my favorite era of the band!!!

Denny had the best voice -- in a non-harmonized, good ol' fashioned, out-front rock voice.  It was the coolest.  The other voices often contributed to them being seen as dorky and old fashioned.  


Far less controversial...

Brian Wilson hasn't been himself since the early 80s. He's been either too "correctly" medicated (or lobotomized!) or he's just older.  I can't tell.  :-D

The Beach Boys, as an artistic entity are Brian Wilson and Mike Love.  Wilson/Love.  That's it.  All one needs to have a Beach Boy record is those two dinosaurs to shut the fck up and WORK!!!

Without Denny, they ceased to be a "band."  Still artists, yes but not really a "band," man.  Ya know?


And lastly...

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6594/00281865lg2wb.jpg)

After Brian checked out in 1967, the keys should have been handed to Dennis Wilson, the rightful heir.  Egos would not allow it... and Denny probably didn't command the role -- but he's the only one who possessed anything original or close to an artist vision/roadmap for the band.

All the others were vital contributors... but that's all.  Denny could have led them to something really cool.  He had the feel, the head-turning voice and the charisma to be out front in some fashion.  His solo albums are a sad, drunk and weathered -- six pack a day -- reminder of just how fcking brilliant he was.

Mr. Hickey, I get your point, however, I'm sure that in the whole history of music he isn't the only one who borrows sth. from other artists. It happens all the time. Even John Lennon said about it telling the music is the same, with some variations around the chords. So, at some level, one can notice similarities between different songs of different artists. And therefore, I stand to what I've stated. Though I completely agree with the rest of your post.

My appreciation for Al has skyrocketed over the years.  His singing and his spirit and his music.  All this is that is one of my favorites.  It's such a good song.  Also, I didn't used to -- but now I really like the covers he brought in.  Cotton Fields especially.  It has grown to become another favorite... despite it being soooo Not-Beach Boys.  :)  It is the rightful opener to Sunflower, by the way!!

I don't know what the inner-workings of the band were, but Carl is often credited as being the healer, the calm voice who kept the band and family together.  But Al seems to be such a level-headed, focused and music-loving guy.  F- the politics and the business... just the MUSIC!!!  That had to be such a grounding presence.  Especially while Brian was bed-ridden and Mike was going batty with his apple juice jug.

Plus he's the one guy Brian hand-picked for the band, right?  Everyone else was family -- had to be in it.  Brian was Al's friend.  They shared a love for music.  Not just a "collaborator."  But Brian's music-friend.

I'm so frickin' stoked Brian's working with him.

I think Brian himself said it best.

"Mike Love is the Beach Boys."

"I'm just his stinkin' songwriter" was the whole quote, I believe. ;)

There have been many, many opinions on this thread that I disagree with strongly, but the assertion that Al Jardine is the second best song-writer in the Beach boys just blows my mind. I may never recover from this.

I'm with you on that.

"Barbara Ann" is a highly enjoyable piece of pop music.

This seems about right... and I agree - he is one nice guy.

:lol

you did not.... :-\

This is an interesting take, actually - Brian never really was about fun, he was the introspective guy that the Beach Boys never were known for. ("was" because he's not in the band anymore.)

Hey, if it wasn't for that trademark Michael Love sound, the Beach Boys never would have made it out of Labor Day weekend in 1961. See, Murry saw the talent in Michael right away. :)

Didn't Brian say that about Carl as well? It may have been something like The Beach Boys died when Carl died or something to that extent.

Mike Love is a reptilian shape shifter from another planet who works for the illuminate and he works for the freemasons,, ;D

The Beach Boys regrouped, had a hit new album, hauled their 70 year old asses around every venue big and small for 5 months and 74 gigs at a reasonable price.
The Rolling Stones invited Wyman for 2 songs only, are playing limited high priced concerts on the back of their greatest hits catalogue.

Maybe Mike Love was right. They are Chickensh!t compared to the Beach Boys? :p

Dude, this is opinions, not facts...

 Yes. The Beach Boys' 50th trumps what the Stones have been up to for theirs.

According to myKe luHv, that is. :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d :3d

opps nevermind  ;D

Wowie zowie, this is too much fun to resist!
 
I like Student Demonstration Time.

I pretty much love all of M.I.U. (except the title).

I enjoy Pet Sounds in stereo as much as mono (it almost sounds like a different album).

I actually really like Barbara Ann, but I think it has always sucked live. Especially as an encore.

I love Bruce and all the songs he has contributed.

Speaking of, I will never understand how anyone could dislike Tears in the Morning. It is one of my absolute favorites. The piano coda is gorgeous.

I will also never understand why A Day in the Life of a Tree is so loved. Yeah, the message is important, but the lyrics and metaphor are ridiculous. And in my opinion, to a greater extent than some have said about Don’t Go Near the Water (which I like). And Rieley’s vocal is absolutely horrible. 

Big Sur > Beaks of Eagles > California

I love the album version of Be True to Your School, but I might hate the single version.

I still find very little reason to listen to 15 Big Ones, but I think I am possibly beginning to see the appeal of Love You. I'm not holding my breath.

The last three songs of That’s Why God Made the Radio are good, but not great. I like From There to Back Again and Pacific Coast Highway is decent, but I think Summer’s Gone is totally lame. The lyrics are almost gleefully depressing and too self aware.

Calling these three songs a “suite” is borderline pretentious.

‍

Well, Bean Bag, I sure agree with you re Dennis, however I imagine the great man himself might have taken issue with your assertion that MIU is a fantastic album (''That album is an embarrassment to my life... It should self-destruct'').

They messed up the fade to All This Is That.

The way Carl's voice is to the fore and then it suddenly and jarring drops back is a very poor piece of production.

If it had gradually faded into the background perhaps it wouldn't be as bad; personally however I think it should've remained prominent throughout the fade, with the other voices either in the background or alongside it.

It's a beautiful song, however I just cannot listen to it without this bugging me. Anyone else ever thought this?

Unpopular, you say?

Starting with the obvious ones:  I (really) don't like Smiley Smile or Love You and Friends bores me.  I probably wouldn't mind Friends if it was just a one off excursion into that style but three lo-fi, under-produced records in a row is just too much for me to take.  The fans voted with their wallets and ran away in droves while the band trudged through way too long a series of albums...I don't know...hoping the fans would come around???  It didn't happen and the success of "Darlin'" in that period showed what the fans wanted: Fully fleshed out POP songs with high end production.  The group knew how good the track was and took it away from Redwood, against Brian's wishes...and being the Beach Boys, continued in the opposite direction after it hot the charts.  Finally, Wild Honey is by far the best of their "barely produced" period but only because the songs are actually Pop songs (or R&B songs put through the Pop filter).  The production kills the album...again.

Speaking of production, I think Imagination is WAY closer to Pet Sounds than anything Brian did in the period between those records.  It and BW88 are night and day.  They've both got some great songs on it but BW88 is probably the most dated sounding album in the band's entire catalog.  And that was 1988 (not 1983)!  Those Linn drums were ALREADY dated by then.  Comparatively, Imagination gets knocked for it's "Adult Contemporary" sound.  I must ask if the critics in that camp think "Let's Go Away For A While" is a Rock song?  Clarinets, stacked, on key vocals (albeit produced within an inch of their lives but I don't care).  Classic melodies from the prime of Brian's life like "Sherry She Needs Me", "Let Him Run Wild", "My Solution".  Yeah.  It may have lacked the inventiveness of "Rio Grande" but it didn't have any really dumb lyrics either.  The best stuff on BW88 had more to do with the collaborators than Brian.

Blondie and Ricky's tenure in the group was entirely too short. No surprise that their exit coincided with Mike's camp assuming control as it loaded everyone up on the American Graffiti/Endless Summer/nostalgia wave.  People can knock them for sounding out of place but that's why they were made members of the band.  "Here She Comes" was just as contemporary as "Marcella" (maybe more so, maybe too much ahead of it's time) and certainly WORLDS more commercial than "He Come Down" or "Make It Good"! 

20/20 is a GREAT (tho disjointed) album!  Better a hodgepodge of all good songs than ANOTHER album with a consistent theme of boring, under-produced, demos.

Jeffrey Foskett is the MAN!  With Brian and Sir Paul way past their primes, and Carl and Brad Delp no longer of this earth, Foskett may in fact have the best Pop voice on the planet.  OK.  Maybe his falsetto is a little shrill for you but outside of Brian's, most of them are.  This goes for Scott Totten, Matt Jardine, and most other really great falsetto singers.  (On either side of the greats, you have your really nasal Frankie Vallis and Adrian Bakers on one side, and your really breathy Barry Gibbs on the other.)  The bottom line is Jeff's mid-range voice in UNTOUCHABLE.  Check out his lead on "Surfin' USA" at the end of the Jeff Beck "Surf's Up" clip or his vocals on the 1984 DC encore.  THAT is why he belongs on stage with the greatest singing group of all time!

Dennis was a PALE shadow of his former greatness (which even at his peak could rival Bruce in terms of sheer schlockiness!) by the time of Endless Summer.  It's a shame but that's how it is to me (remember these are all opinions, and unpopular ones, at that).  Worse, his voice practically ruins his contributions to MIU and LA.  The only reason they stand out is that most of the other stuff is rehashed, boring, or both.  I really do wish Mike had gotten the boot at some point and been replaced by Dennis and I wish Dennis would have followed doctors' order and healed his GD voice!  Like David, Dennis went under-appreciated for too long but I feel the pendulum has swung just a bit too far in his favor lately.  Serious talent, seriously wasted by the end.

The band should have DEFINITELY broke up in 1977!  After that, the political scars always loomed over the music.  Everything from then to at least Keepin' The Summer Alive rarely gets a spin from me.  (I don't like the stuff that immediately preceded it either but at least they were still riding the success of Endless Summer and Brian's Back.)  They really needed to take time off, realize how good they could be, let the audience realize how important they were, and play the reunion trump card in 1980 or later.

The only thing wrong with "Kokomo" and "Barbara Ann" is they've been overplayed.  They were both huge hits for a reason.  And there's nothing wrong with the band's take on "California Dreaming". 

The worst thing BY FAR about Summer In Paradise is the production (and lack of Brian).  As above, there's NOTHING (really) wrong with the live version of "Summer In Paradise".  The lyrics are modern day Mike Love but like "Do It Again", they actually work in this case.

That's Why God Made The Radio is definitely one of the group's ten best and consistently good albums.

Joe Thomas should work with Brian ALL the time. ...At least when it comes to producing the vocals (tho I do agree that he needs to dial back the auto-tune a bit).

Pheonix, you and I are night and day.

Shine on you crazy, Freinds hating, Joe Thomas loving diamond!

I won't even see the Stones and I saw the Beach Boys twice. Why? Well I haven't liked how they present themselves live since 1981. Basically it is venue and price

Totally agree with this.  If Dennis could have been a more reliable, less crazy  alcholol and drug fueled wild man (of course that's one of the reasons we love him), he could have definitely taken over the reins from Brian rather than Carl.  I think in the 1968-70 period there was a little leadership tug of war going on between Carl and Dennis, an undercurrent that never erupted into a fight, but was affecting the group dynamic. Well it did eventually erupt over the sequencing of Surf's Up . . . Dennis was writing and producing his own stuff separate from Carl on 20/20 and Sunflower and his last minute additions to Add Some Music, which was rejected by Warner Brothers, "saved" the album.  If only Slip on Through had been a hit single, things may have developed very differently from how they did.

Bruce wrote only two good songs-Dierdre and She believes in Love Again

Guess I'm Dumb beats every song on Today!

Al should have had nearly half of Mike's leads

He Come Down is beyond horrible.  It makes me claw my eyes out.  The rest of this list will be typed blindly.

Dennis' love songs are often sappy, lifeless mush, with some exceptions

Brian Wilson is a clunky album.  The versions that appear on IJWMFTT are vastly superior

Never Learn Not to Love is one of Dennis' finest moments, despite Chuck Manson

Daybreak Over the Ocean should have opened TWGMTR

Lyrics matter as much as the music--thus Love You is half a heaping pile of elephant dung...the other half is quite good

Aside from the toothpaste and soap line, Don't Go Near the water is excellent

Time to Get Alone just begs for the Hawthorne outro

Pet Sounds in stereo is leaps and bounds above mono

Almost every BB tune is superior in stereo (real stereo)

Al is a solid songwriter who should have more represetation on MiC

Imagination is Brian's best solo album

Here Comes the Night disco single is fantastic.  Why wasn't this on LA?

LA is a snooze fest

What a great thread this is.

What it shows is, without all the rows and snide remarks that usually get chucked about, what a rich and varied catalogue this band has if they can elicit such polar opinions about their work.

you sir, have a load of unpopular opinions!  ;D

live at Nassau 1974 is far, far better in this sense!

The best thing about The Beach Boys '85 is the production.

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Right backacha, man.  ;D  :afro  :lol

It takes all kinds. :)

I'm with you on almost all of those. 


Oh, and tho I forgot to mention it in my post, I don't like Love You either.  And believe me, I've TRIED....MANY times.

I don't get why people who didn't know Dennis Wilson insist on calling him Denny.

I don't get why people who don't know Michael Love insist on calling him Mike

I don't get why people who don't know Alan Jardine insist on calling him Al

I don't get why people who don't know Bruce Johnston insist on calling him Historical

Whatevs, Pauly

I prefer Brian's solo output to many Beach Boys records. BW88, OCA, IJWMFTT, Imagination, Roxy, TLOS, Gershwin and Disney work for me anytime.

Brian Wilson Presents Smile is akin to a K-Tel repackaging of the Smile material sold on local television.

On the contrary, Brian's solo career is a pale shadow of his work with the Beach Boys, and is frequently embarrassing and often outright appalling.

The only time he ever really re-captured the old magic is when he returned to Pet Sounds and Smile.

Otherwise it's almost all entirely lame. His debut album has a handful of decent songs, but even those are spoilt by the atrocious production.

Gershwin and Disney were both lazy covers albums. The Christmas album was breathtakingly dreadful. Gettin' In Over My Head was almost as bad. Orange Crate Art is boring.

That Lucky Old Sun is a rare bright spot, but even that is wildly over-rated by fans, their sympathy and goodwill towards Brian causing them to over-value what is basically a solid album, but nothing like a classic.

That's nothing. I was on a Beatles forum recently and everyone kept referring to Richard Starkey as Ringo! As if they bloody knew him or something...

Touched a nerve there, huh, guys?

To me, the sound of Brian Wilson untethered to the atrocious production and marketing gimmicks of the post Endless Summer group is nothing less than hearing a modern American musical titan finally free. Free to express music that his band would never countenance. And free to attract an audience that enjoys his music for what it is -- modern American masterpieces -- rather than the lifestyle marketing ploy his cousin and assorted hangers-on want it to signify.

And of course his voice is reduced, and of course he turns to others for support. But that makes his accomplishments even greater and more precious. Here's the truth. I would trade the entire Beach Boys discography for Brian Wilson's four solo albums of original compositions. Brian Wilson (88), Imagination (98), Gettin' In Over My Head (04) and That Lucky Old Sun (08) are, to me, the truly canonical and irreplaceable creations of this timeless musical force. They have everything I like about Brian Wilson's music with precious little of the dross that so often accompanies it.

And that sounds like a joke, but it's actually not.

...

...

...

Well, actually it's a little bit of joke. I'd have to add the covers records, OCA, and the Wilsons albums too. And the Paley sessions.

Personally I couldn't care less if you do or don't love Brian's solo work. I just disagree - I think most of it's crap. No nerves touched.

+1

Wow, guys. I have never seen so many people so COMPLETELY WRONG about anything and everything to do with the BBs!!! :spin

Seriously--great work, even though I'm convinced that at least half of you don't actually hold the opinions you are expressing...

What we need NOW is a way to determine what the most popular "unpopular" opinons are...
:jedi

So when I say I hate everything they did after Surfin' Safari, you don't believe me? Outrageous!

Can I also say that I believe Gettin' In Over My Head is Brian's best and most characteristic solo album?

Amen.

Honestly, what are Mike and Bruce bringing to the table that is so friggin profound? I mean, I know people here are obsessed with having the Beach Boys name tethered to Brian's new project, but will that do?....Add another shitty song about Beaches? Or another Daybreak (a song I love but that's completely out of place on TWGMTR)? I'll miss their voices as much as the next person, but I know I won't be missing any thunderous artistic statement from Mike and Co.

I like Brian when he's completely free of the endless summer. He's more honest and open with his songwriting. There are many people out there who care about hearing good music (rather than seeing a silly name attached to a record) that will buy this album in a heartbeat....me included.

*Edit: If Mike has more songs like 'Daybreak', I hope he releases a solo album. That song, though mostly unappreciated here, has good production, good lyrics, and great vocals. It just doesn't fit with Brian's songwriting. Brian and Mike are no longer compatible with each other - so why force them to write together?

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Haha, I'm not anti Mike by any means. I just don't see Brian and Mike as being great collaborators anymore. I'd love for them to prove me wrong, but until then, I won't be complaining about a new Brian Wilson solo album.

Wow.  Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum.  I would bet that 95% or more on this board are somewhere between those two extremes.  But I think there’s good points on both sides.

On the one hand, you could certainly say that BW was “tethered” to unfortunate choices, especially lyrically, up to ’65 and again from ’78 to ’85.  It’s nice to see him lose some of those constraints.

On the other hand, from ’66 to ’77 he had artistic freedom like very very few musicians have ever had.  He was able to spend an extraordinary amount of money on Good Vibrations and the Smile sessions and make idiosyncratic albums like Smiley Smile and Love You.  No way those get released under most artists’ names.  I would also say that the BW of today (and since the 80s) barely resembles the BW of the 60s and early 70s.  He simply does not have anywhere close the same skills in composing, producing or singing.

So it’s kind of hard to understand preferring the latter-day “untethered” BW to the untethered BW of Pet Sounds, Smile, and even Love You.

Yes, but that's a logical and rational reply. I'm talking about crazy, unpopular opinions that have no basis in anything other the fact that I really enjoy hearing a 50-plus year old guy multitrack himself. And bass harmonicas.

I don't really understand that analogy.  A K-Tel recording would be low budget and low profile.  Smile was the opposite of both.  I can see after the release of the Smile Sessions feeling Brian's album was unnecessary but this was seven years before, several of the songs had never been heard, new lyrics had been written, and for a long time this was the most complete version of Smile available (I would argue it's still more complete than the Beach Boys version).  I think that's enough to make it pretty legit.

The touring group from 1965 to 1970 was terrible to mediocre live, adding to the BBs downfall since other acts stepped up their game live.

BWPS does sound like a cheap imitation of the original recordings; it sounds phoned in and plastic. No soul. No feeling. And I felt the same before the box set was released, so that won't work for me.

'Daybreak Over the Ocean' has the best sounding vocals on TWGMTR and the entire record would sound better if Christian Love and (gasp) Adrian Baker had been called in for the vocal-blend on the Brian tracks.

:thumbsup Agreed.

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Short answer is the voices. Too much Brian singing lead is too much Brian singing lead. I could care less whether Brian writes with any of the four, but man, Brian's music is so much better with those voices.

Christian definitely sounds like Carl in the vocal stack, which is missing on this album. While Jeff is fine on Brian's old parts, he doesn't quite fit with Carl's.

Now, the live shows are another story. Amazing how different they are, especially using the same musicians.

Absolutely.  I was really excited by it when it came out but lost interest within a few months and have hardly played it since.  That's partly unavoidable, since BW's voice was not as good in 2004 as it was in 1967, and he lacked the other voices for which he had originally written the songs.  (On the other hand, BW's vocal performances on every album starting with That Lucky Old Sun have been substantially better than they were on BWPS.)  But what's more surprising is how half-assed the production on the whole album is.  I suspect that the only reason BW and co. bothered to release Gettin' In Over My Head was to deflate expectations so people wouldn't realize how mediocre BWPS really is.

And on the subject of BWPS and unpopular opinions, I'll take this time to say that I really don't understand the obsession that some people seem to have with "suites."  In general, I think BW's writing style is much better suited to writing songs and that the urge to compose an entire album as a single suite has not worked out well for him.  That Lucky Old Sun is a good example: it has some pretty good songs and decent production and vocals, but the effort to unify it, to my mind, fails entirely.  Additionally, as much as I love the songs from Smile, I'm convinced that at least part of the reason that BW could never put it together was the obsession with making it as a giant suite when, in fact, it was all over the place stylistically and lyrically.  The fact that the organization of BWPS is so unsatisfying (with the exception of the middle four songs) would lend credence to this conclusion.  I do like the last set of songs on That's Why God Made the Radio, but I don't think an extended suite would have worked for the whole album.

Agreed - but with those vocals comes Mike's endless summer...and, as was proven by Beaches in Mind, it doesn't make for good music. But maybe one dud song in trade for amazing vocals is a good bargain...too bad it has to be that way, though.

Well, I happen to like Daybreak and Spring Vacation, so that is not a deal breaker for me. Now, with Beaches In Mind, you got me. ;) Though, I'll be damned if it don't get stuck in my brain and I walk around humming it from time to time.

It would be surreal to hear Mike doing Brian's "edgier" material.

Daybreak is one of my favorite tracks on TWGMTR - but it doesn't fit with the rest of Brian's tunes (maybe it was just the difference in production). And yeah :lol I get that Beaches intro stuck in my head way too often ;D

I can hear a younger Mike doing a great "Walkin the Line" lead.

You mean like singing the lead lines of "acid alliteration" lyrics in the closing section of a "back to the beach" classic like "Cabinessence"??  :smokin

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I actually prefer some of the material from Brian Wilson's Smile over the Beach Boys Smile Sessions.  Mostly due to the addition of lyrics like I prefer In Blue Hawaii to Love to Say Dada and Song for Children to Look.  But for some reason, I also prefer Brian's solo version of Wind Chimes than the Beach Boys version (actually, another unpopular opinion, I think I prefer the Smiley Smile version to both, I love the eeriness and the guys trading off verses).

Taken as a whole, BWPS is a very good record. The second suite, the added lyrics in the third -- it's a real accomplishment. Not my favorite BW solo album necessarily, because it really needs so much context to fully understand, and because it's ultimately built upon older and more atmospheric recordngs. But its importance as a personal milestone for BW cannot be overstated.

BWPS worked really well for me at the time but I don't think I'm going to play it again anytime soon. It begins with the overall packaging, which looks incredibly dull and even cheap. Also, why would anyone prefer the solo renditions of Surf's Up, Cabinessence, and H&V over the actual Beach Boys versions? I certainly don't despise this record but to me it's about on the same level as the Christmas album he did.

The other day I inadvertently trapped my genitalia in a sock drawer whilst hurriedly getting ready for work. Unpleasant as the crunching sound of my ball bag being squashed 'tween drawer and balsa wood undoubtedly was, it was nevertheless still preferable to listening to Daybreak Over The Ocean, which is one of the most revolting songs in the bands entire canon.

I am another of those who hasn't listened to BWPS for many years and I have no plans to listen to it again in the future.

Try it. You might like it.

I'd like to counter with BW88 and Sweet Insanity are the only two semi decent solo albums the man has ever made. Everything else sucks. As bad as much as it was, Imagination was the last record where any... erm.. imagination was shown in making a Brian Wilson solo record. Anything since, be they covers, remakes or originals is the same bunch of guys hired to recreate a pale retread of Brian's Summer Days!(and Summer Nights!)/Pet Sounds phase. I'd say Brian's more boxed in musically now then he ever was as a Beach Boy.

And as for his singing? Yes he's improved since hitting rock bottom with GIOMH but still.... comparatively speaking it now means he's a 4 instead of a 2 out of 10. I've never known another artist to recieve the sympathy vote as much as Brian Wilson does.

So he has maybe 3 new records coming out? I don't need to buy them, I already know how they will sound. 12 piece band playing exactly the same instrument setup as used on Pet Sounds - check. Lyrics that are guaranteed to make reference to his mental history at some point - check. A wordless vocal acapella with Jeff Foskett wailing like a banshee all over it - check.

Sorry but the Brian Wilson Sound has become as much a stale cliche as the Mike Love nasal sung beach song.

You said it.

Mike's Beard, couldn't agree more! BW's solo career has been stale and uninteresting for many years. Can't take any more of the "mental history" stuff, it's making me cringe. That said, I find TLOS and BWRG rather pleasant in spots... but still, nowhere near as good as even later BB material such as the Light Album.

I tried it when it was released but I can't get past the fact that the songs sounded much better when recording in the 1960s sadly.

In general Brian's albums have two great tracks and the rest is so-so. Imagination was his first solo album that I caught in real time as a fan. Then I saw (in amazement) the big hype and euphoria, and got used to it afterwards. Brian's solo releases are a footnote in his career but there's much to be enjoyed.

+1

If all of BW's post-'91 solo albums actually sounded the same, I would give some credence to your opinion. Given that they don't, I can only infer that you haven't heard them -- and accordingly dismiss your post as the flagrant nonsense it is.


Yes, because having a band made up of people who love and support you, record companies falling over themselves to release your new material, and the creative confidence to make some the most exciting and risk-taking recordings of your career is being boxed in. Heh.

I'm not sure that record companies have been falling over themselves to release his new material, but I don't have access to the kind of information to make that judgment.  But one doesn't need pressure from the studio or from bandmates to be boxed in.  Granted, I don't think that all of BW's solo albums sound the same, and I even like some of them.  But is something like In the Key of Disney or even Reimagines Gershwin really your idea of an artist spreading his creative wings?

Capitol signed him right up after the BB tour, and as a solo artist. So there's clearly demand for what he's doing these days, and not as a band project. This has not necessarily been true for all of his solo career, but the fact that he has regularly toured and released acclaimed albums has put him in a better position with the business.

As for the Gershwin record, I think it was an ambitious and risky project, yes. It was an album that was explicitly Brian's idea (he'd been mulling it over it for years, and made it a condition of the Disney deal -- they had originally wanted him solely to record the Disney covers record), one on which he selected the material and sequenced the record on his own, and one where he fought with the record company (to keep the female POV vocals in "I Love You Porgy") and won. What's more, he labored mightily for a couple of months over his vocals.

An artist spreading his wings does not mean he has to make an album that's dissonant or unpleasant, or one where he sings like Tom Waits. An artist spreading his wings does not mean he has to collaborate with Rick Rubin or Panda Bear or Daft Punk. Sometimes an artist spreading his wings is making an immaculately tasteful and joyous, yet still experimental and slyly funny, record of pre-rock standards.

The Disney record was a contractual obligation project. It happens. Yet Brian put together a distinctly different, organ-heavy band sound for the record, with a lighter and looser vibe. No, it wasn't his deepest record ever. But it had modest charms of its own, reminding me in a way of Friends.

This is a fun thread to read...here's my likely unpopular opinions (the first is certain to be unpopular)...

-I'd rather listen to BWPS than The Smile Sessions just about any day, though I love both.
-Caroline, No is a very weak track. I skip it every time. Also, the instrumentals on PS are utter crap of an almost embarrassing level.
-C&TP:ST is the groups best album of the 70's, followed by Holland, then Love You, Sunflower (overrated a bit), LA, MIU
-Carl Wilson, while a phenomenal singer, producer, arranger, band leader, was a mediocre at best songwriter.
-Bruce Johnston is at once the weirdest, most annoying, and least talented member of the Beach Boys history.
-It's a really good thing the boys didn't perform at Monterrey Pop...would've been beyond embarrassing.
-Still Cruisin' is a really fun record. I enjoy listening to it In My Car (pun intended).

you could probably freeze your piss into the shape of a sharp object and then stab someone with your own piss and then the weapon melts and you never get caught. no officer, i didn't stab anyone, search the whole house, you won't find any weapons. you could threaten your enemies and even call it a "pissknife", "pissdagger" or "yellow pissblade of justice" to intimidate them further. i think it would be awesome to stab your enemies with a blade made of your own piss.

Lord save us.

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Mike is worlds more talented than Bruce in many ways. Look at the number of songs Mike has his name attached to and the nature of those songs and then look at how many Bruce has his attached to and the nature of those songs. I'm not sayin' Bruce is a bad songwriter and I realize many of Mike's co-write credits are for lyrics (although lyrics take a lot of time and skill, too, and I hate when people try to discredit someone on the grounds of "Doesn't he just write lyrics?"), but many are music credits to one extent or another.

Obviously Bruce's got the pianer chops and had (has?) a pretty nice voice way back when, although I might argue that Mike's is pretty distinct and he's great at what he does, too. Bruce did a lot more in the way of production than Mike ever did, too. Y'know. Y'know. In conclusion, both guys have a lot of skillz and worth in their own way.

Believe me, I'd know.

At least we can rest assured that no one from BRI will issue a cease and desist against you, since Brian (thankfully) never talks like that.

cake

Edit: Wait, I just realized you insulted me. You NITWIT.

NITWIT? No, no! DRAGONFLY! *hopes people get the reference*

I hate every Beach Boys album after Love You. I don't care if there are actually a handful of decent songs on them, I still think they by and large suck the big one.

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hi mike where's yer pal bruce?  ;)

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Firstly my post stated that everything after Imagination (98) sounds the same, so learn to read correctly.

Secondly everything from the Wondermints era does sound the same. No twists or turns. The only suprise now is when Brian actually cuts a decent vocal.

Thirdly anyone who drops a doozy such as "I would trade the entire Beach Boys discography for Brian's 4 solo albums", really has no place being dismissive of others opinions.

 

Flying Tart?

I think this is an important point.  Even Carl's best songs (from Surf's Up and Holland, mainly) are some of the most overrated BB songs in fan circles and do not compare well with the lesser songs of Dennis, let alone Brian.

He can hardly be called a phenomenal  arranger either. Or producer.

To me, there are three Carl Wilson songs that are not overrated in any way: Feel Flows, Long Promised Road, and The Trader. Truly phenomenal stuff, hands down. Other than that, he was a competent songwriter at best with occasional glimpses of something a little more than that (Angel Come Home, Heaven, Where I Belong, Like a Brother). By the late 70s his taste in music had become very stale it seems.

As far as production goes, I'd say the most remarkable things he did were 1.) holding together the Sunflower and Holland albums (making each a cohesive listening experience despite the "many cooks" involved), and 2.) the trademark overall sound and arrangement of Feel Flows. Also, I Can Hear Music, while not particularly inventive, does sound absolutely fantastic.

Hey, "I Can hear Music" sounds great. The guy has some good productions to his name. Didn't Carl have a lot to do with the production on Surf's Up, albeit not being sole producer?

Carl wrote about 3-4 songs that are worth more than some bands entire discographies. Even if the guy wasn't churning out album after album of great material like Brian, doesn't that still count/matter?

You write "The Trader", produce "I Can Hear Music" and have dozens upon dozens of absolutely fantastic vocals to your name, you're good in my book. I'm not gonna see a need to slight your work in comparison to two of your peers, one of whom was one of the greatest and most prolific pop songwriters ever (*ahem*), yer doin' fine, Jim.

I think "Where I Belong" falls into "great" status - the melody, lyrics, Carl's vocal, even the production. And, in my opinion, "Livin' With A Heartache" is a very good, almost great song. With the possible exception of "Goin' On", it might be the best song on Keepin' The Summer Alive.   

Since this thread is for unpopular opinions, I might as well put this one out there:  Trader may be the weakest track on Holland - well, next to Beaks of Eagles.  Never really liked it - the overly affected vocal, the lyrics.  Music is solid though.


Carl's production skills were obviously first rate although he only had a brief song writing spurt of any significance.  Feel Flows was definitley a "spurt."  In more ways than one!

Agree with all points there, although I'd say both of Carl's KTSA songs trump Goin' On.

And there aint nothing over-rated about Long Promised Road, Feel Flows or Trader. All three of those are amazing songs, really brilliantly crafted works.

Whilst highlighting Carl's numerous merits let's also remember his substantial contribution in keeping their live shows on a level few other bands could ever hope to match, at least until Endless Summer derailed his forward-thinking ambitions.

I love the everything about song, especially the lyric. A song about Manifest Destiny, or more pre-Manifest Destiny and the toll it took on Native Americans. Second part is more about coming to terms with all happened since and moving forward in a more natural way. I found the song very poetic. Probably Rieley's best work with The Beach Boys.

I find Carl's production sound rather bland.

I've never really found "I Can Hear Music" all that exciting

Regarding his songs, I love Long Promised Road and The Trader, er....that's about it isn't it?

And only a lunatic would say Carl didn't have a beautiful, and powerful voice (with a few exceptions)

Er... Feel Flows? (which many (me included) consider his absolute crowning glory, and has many celeb fans - Jarvis Cocker, Super Furry Animals, Cameron Crowe, etc.)

Also, didn't Carl co-write I Went To Sleep and Good Timin'? Why the instant assumption that Brian provided all the good stuff with these two gems?

Yes to the second. I'm not aware of him helping with the first. That being said, he did cowrite Our Sweet Love with BW, which is a sorely unappreciated track.

Edit: I guess Carl did cowrite IWTS. Blow me down !

Add River Song and Rainbows to the list. The two most instantly catchy POB tracks have his name as co-writer.

Also Dance, Dance, Dance, Friends, Be Here In The Morning, It's About Time and All This Is That.

I rather dislike I Can Hear Music.

^ Wow!

I LOVE I Can Hear Music. My favorite vocal by Carl and I dig the production as well. One of my absolute favorite BB recordings.

Carl also produced Time To Get Alone.

Absolutely agree. When he sings that "I close my eyes and here it comes agaaain" part....just wow. Sonic heaven to these ears.

One of my favorite lead vocals in the Beach Boys catalogue. It's an amazing song.

But doesn't it SOUND real nice? COME AHN

And Your Sweet Love if I remember correctly.

it's just not a great song in my (unpopular) opinion.


i also find it depressing that they were releasing cover material for a single in 1969, when Brian and the others were perfectly capable of writing excellent originals. a bit like releasing And Then I Kissed Her in 1967. just a huge misstep.

not big fan of the prominent accoustic guitar in that song, but that aside it is a musical gem

Wasn't Capitol responsible for that and not the Beach Boys?

You can't compare I Can Hear Music with a cover version as unimaginative (if admittedly pleasant) as Then I Kissed Her. Music is probably the best cover they ever did, easily on par with Sloop John B and Do You Wanna Dance.

ICHM was one of the first songs I ever heard as a kid in the 80's. Gotta love that song.

I've no problem with them releasing cover versions as singles just so long as they were good - and I Can Hear Music was great! It vastly improved on the original, and to me was definitely of single quality. Bluebirds Over The Mountain on the other hand... Oh dear.

Would any of those other original songs on 20/20 really have been bigger hits than I Can Hear Music?

No, Brian produced that track. I always preferred the Redwood vocals as well. The Beach Boys version (with vocals produced by Carl) lacks that wonderful harmony in the chorus that completely lifted the track into that magical higher plateau that only Brian could manage. Also the lovely horn solo is missing in the BB version.

probably not. I'm just saying they were capable of writing and releasing better material. They had one the greatest songwriters alive in the band. The production, arrangement, and vocals are all top-notch on ICHM, but ultimately the song/melody does very little for me. It's just kind of there. And as good as the voices are, there's just something... or someONE rather, missing.

I'd take Summer in Paradise over at least 95% of today's top 40 (I find SIP more uninspired and lame than it is irritating)

It's the production and vocals that make the Beach Boys such a good band to listen to, rather than the songwriting (with only Brian's greatest achievements being any exception to this rule).  That's not a knock on the songwriting; I just think those other elements make far more of a tangible difference on the listening experience.  Thinking about it this way, the vast majority of songs I've ever heard would be a-okay with 60s and early 70's Beach Boys vocals and production.

Lyrics are miniscule.  They have to really blatantly stand out as meaningful or dreadful to be a detriment or addition to the song.  The Beach Boys have only rarely reached extremes like these.

I would never tell someone I love listening to Beach Boys unless I know them very well, will never see them again, or know they will either share these sentiments or be entirely indifferent. (not really an opinion, but a way of living!)

"The Beach Boys" is a terribly gimmicky band name.  Probably the worst relative to its musical achievements.

I wish Pet Sounds had more diversity in terms of the vocals. At this point in the band's career they had five great lead vocalists (relative to pretty any other band I can think of) and part of made their mid-period so interesting was how the singing could shift from song to song.  Partly for this reason, I'm most excited to pop in albums like 20/20 and Surf's Up.

Holland is their second most consistently good album, but not their second best.

At parties and get-togethers, if the subject of music comes up I'll dive right into why The Beach Boys are the greatest band ever. I don't make many friends at parties :-D

Man, Carl, Dennis and Pet Sounds are really taking hits in this thread

Ah, so it was the vocals produced by Carl. Thanks for that info. I was just going by the Carl production credit on my vinyl copy of 20/20.

One of these days I gotta seize control of the music, play one of their most un-stereotypical songs and never tell a soul what is playing!

I wanted to cry when someone wrote that the instrumentals on Pet Sounds were "utter crap"

Let's Go Away For Awhile is like the best of Nelson Riddle, Les Baxter, and Burt Bacharach rolled into one. It's a shame that a lot of people don't realize the brilliance of this song. Philip Lambert does a phenomenal job of describing how genius this song is in his Brian Wilson book.

I did this on a road trip once - I played Cabinessence without telling anyone who it was - blew people's minds :o

Brian and Carl worked on it. Carl did a lot of the final mix, but Brian did a great vocal lead and background. Great arrangement by him too,

Ok...here goes. :-[

It was great having Dave play the C50. His surf guitar rocked as did his 'Getcha Back' lead. I was a huge supporter of his all things C50 last year and it was great seeing him live for the first time.

But I did not feel comfortable listening to his 'Pet Sounds' onstage, nor the live album version. Perhaps I am spoiled having heard Brians band during the PS live tour, plus of course the original album version.

Can the guitar players among you put me in my place?

OK, I'm going for it:

I absolutely love Still Cruisin' and Kokomo.  Before they came out, I had a slight knowledge of The Beach Boys and their music (my mom was, and still is a huge fan and had introduced me to some of the early hits), but once Kokomo came out, I fell in love with them.  Still Crusin' was the first Beach Boys album I owned, therefore I still have a soft spot for it, 25+ years later.  I know it's dated, and not the best music in the world...but I was a 9 year old girl when it first came out, and 9 year old girls have never been the best judge of good music.

I'm completely with you on the appreciation for Still Cruisin' & Kokomo.  I think they're great songs; the Boys could have (and actually have on occasion) done much worse.  Lots of folks 'round these parts would just as soon those two songs never happened.  The main problem, I think, is that Brian was not involved.  Ok, so he wasn't....we need to get over it.  Another problem is that Kokomo got wayyyyy overplayed.  Still Cruisin' certainly didn't.  Doesn't make sense to me.

It's not sacrilege to love Kokomo or Still Cruisin (well maybe it is around these parts). Still Crusin is totally irresistible. Bruce and Al steal the show on that song.

My unpopular opinion..

Bruce Springsteen's cover of "When I Grow Up To Be A Man" is kinda better than The Beach Boys version.

 :thud

No, I wouldn't exactly call it a knockout; just a great catchy tune!

My bad. I was meant to say "Still Crusin is totally irresistible...to everyone but Ted Danson"

Your unpopular opinion displeases Becker

I rarely listen to other people's opinions on the likes and dislikes of music. If you like it and it moves you, then it is GOOD, no matter what anyone else thinks.

Here are a few "unpopular" opinions I hold:

--The Beach Boys have a ton of amazing songs, but almost no good albums.
--Brian is almost entirely to blame for Smile not being released. His vision for the project was insanely ambitious. Facing such a difficult project under the influence of drugs, he did not have the necessary motivation to finish it. If he really wanted Smile to be released--no matter what Mike or the other band members thought of the album--it would have been released. Brian's lack of confidence and technological limitations of the 60s are the primary reasons the project stalled.

And here’s an opinion of mine that is accepted among general fans/critics but not hard core Beach Boy fans:

--Brian Wilson was an absolute musical genius, but the rest of the band--outside of being good singers--had little talent (relative to bands of comparable prestige).  As a collaborative band unit, the Beach Boys can’t even be compared to 60s peers like The Beatles and Rolling Stones. A lot of Beach Boys music can stand proudly in the ring against the all-time pop/rock greats; but all of that music can be categorized as “Brian Wilson featuring The Beach Boys.”

Not unpopular on this site. That's the official party line here. Personally I think there's some truth in all the reasons we've been given.

Yeah, I must agree. Even as an objective, fair and balanced fan of both Brian and the Beach Boys collectively, Brian was the one most responsible for Smile not being released.

Kokomo's a classic, plain and simple. There's a reason it was huge. Still Cruisin' is a nice "retro" tune, kind of like a sequel to Getcha Back. Somewhere Near Japan is the big treasure on that album.

Well, I'm no great Mike fan, but it's been a bit too convenient to blame him all these years. Ultimately the decision was Brian's.

Writing and arranging all or the basis of "Little Bird", "Be Still", "Be With Me", "All I Want To Do", "Let The Wind Blow", "Slip On Through", "Got To Know The Woman", "Deirdre", "It's About Time", "Tears In The Morning", "Lady", "Sound Of Free", "A Time To Live In Dreams", "Barbara", "All I Wanna Do", "Forever", "Feel Flows", "Don't Go Near The Water", "Long Promised Road", "Take A Load Off Your Feet", "Disney Girls", "Lookin' At Tomorrow", "All This Is That", "Make It Good", "Cuddle Up", "The Trader", "Big Sur", "Steamboat", "On My Way To Sunny Californ-i-a", "Holy Man", "San Miguel", "4th Of July", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Only With You", "River Song", "Thoughts Of You", "Farewell My Friend", "Forever", "Angel Come Home", "Where I Belong", "Baby Blue", "Getcha Back", "Keepin' The Summer Alive", etc. etc. etc. etc. as well as numerous great production jobs = "little talent".

I realize the songs here vary in quality, but at the very least, I feel they all (as well as other songs written by non-Brians) have something worthwhile to offer. This isn't even including their numerous contributions to Brian's songs. SHEESH.

P.S. What are some bands of "comparable prestige" and why do they matter in this context?

A simple truth, yet one that eludes even the most perceptive of fans.

I don't know if I'd say that the others had little talent outside of being good singers.

Dennis may not have been a technically "great" drummer like a Ginger Baker, Keith Moon, or John Bonham, but can you really imagine anyone else drumming for them back in their heyday? Dennis had the power that the music demanded. His later skills as a songwriter and producer are second only to Brian's.

There's much to say now about Michael being "untalented" (usually from revisionist Brianistas who have semen-stained copies of the Leaf toilet paper), but there's a reason Brian wanted him as the frontman and never had him replaced. Michael is one of the best frontmen ever in rock music.

Bruce was hired by Columbia Records as a producer for a very good reason - Columbia Records (the label who, at the time, had former and current ranks consisting of Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis, Tony Bennett, and Duke Ellington among many others) didn't just hire ANYONE to be on their production staff. To claim the guy is untalented is just ignorant in the extreme. But hey, that's what this thread is for, right?

Blondie and Ricky were already established pop stars in South Africa. I wouldn't exactly call them untalented either instrumentally or vocally.

David's a fine guitarist and vocalist. True, he developed that talent largely outside of the Beach Boys, but that doesn't change anything.

I think, on the most basic level, Brian was simply overwhelmed by all the possibilities his imagination was suggesting to him in that period. He had more ideas than hours in the day to record them. Further complicating things were all the resources he had at his disposal. He had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted, seemingly unlimited funds, the latest and greatest equipment and the newest and coolest instruments on the market, half a dozen legendary studios to record at, and an army of professional musicians at his beck and call every hour of every day.

There's a misconception that the artist begins with nothing, with a blank slate or blank canvas, and from there creates *something*. That he moves from zero to infinity in his artistic process. That's really not the case though. The artist begins with an infinite number of possibilities, and from there he has to limit himself down to one. That self-limitation is incredibly difficult though when you're an ambitious young artist hitting your peak, you naturally want to include everything and somehow capture that whole infinity your intuiting. It's here I think Brian went off the rails, and why he moved to the home studio. He had too many options. Too many colors to paint with. The home studio was an artificial self constraint he imposed upon himself simply to remove the temptations he was being confronted with.

In a sense it was Brian's fault Smile wasn't finished. It's hard to say where precisely he went wrong, or what he might have done to overcome the issues he was facing though. Part of the problem I think stemmed from a lack of emotional self-awareness, but another part was likely also a lack of technical ability. Brian was (and perhaps still is) a very gifted musician, but unlike composers of the 19th century, he never received the sort of formal training one requires for high level artistic mastery. There was essentially only so much he could learn on his own and through experience, and in the smile period he began to hit a brick wall in terms of the amount of articulation his technical skill-sets allowed at that degree of refinement he had managed to bring them to.

However, I think it was the pressure put on him by Mike and the rest of the group that really drove these underlying frustrations home. They were simmering in the pot, and it was the heat they added that really brought the whole situation to a boil. It's useless to say who truly was at fault. Whether or not anyone interfered with him or pressured him I believe is irrelevant, Brian would not have been able to complete Smile regardless. Mike and the other band members may have brought things to head more quickly than they otherwise would have been certainly, but if it hadn't of been them, it would have only been something else that eventually catalysed Brian's abandonment of the project. To finish Smile it would have taken greater powers than Brian actually possessed, an emotional strength that only Brian Wilson was in any position to ultimately gift. It would have taken a recognition of his own limitations and weaknesses. What was needed, ultimately, was the renunciation of all those unfulfillable aspirations he had to realize the infinite for the sake of realizing the finite and definite artwork he was actually capable of, and that sort of sacrifice was simply beyond him both intellectually and emotionally.

I thought I'd found all those cameras.

Could you name any other 60's band with six singer songwriters? (People talk about the Buffalo Springfield and Moby Grape with 4 singer-songwriters each as being enormously talented).

Dennis: Talented singer, songwriter and producer. Powerful drummer and competent piano player. Co-wrote You Are So Beautiful, a pop classic. Made a highly acclaimed solo album. Wrote Forever, Little Bird, Lady, River Song, Baby Blue. Starred in an excellent movie.

Carl: Excellent singer. Could produce. Played lead guitar in a world famous band at age 15. Wrote Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Trader.

Mike: Co-wrote and sang lead on most of their classic hits. Wrote Big Sur.

Al: Sang lead on a US #1 hit and two UK top 5 hits. Wrote Lady Lynda (UK #7). Competent guitarist and producer.

Bruce: Wrote a Grammy Award winning song. Was a succesful singer, session musician and producer even before he became a Beach Boy. Excellent pianist.

Forever is one of the most overrated songs in the entire BB canon. It's a nice enough song, but of the Sunflower tracks, Slip On Through is the superior Dennis song with Forever ranking nearer Our Sweet Love or Tears In The Morning (I like both of those songs though admittedly).

Little Bird is one of my favorite BB tracks on the other hand, but though Dennis may have written it, I can't help but get the impression that Brian lent more than a helping hand on the arrangement and production, which is really what makes the whole thing work as well as it does.

Lady is a total dud.

I mean, I agree Dennis is a wonderfully talented part of the band, but I don't think you're making the most convincing case.

Can't believe that anyone has to even make a case as to why Dennis had more than "little talent".

Prestige is not the right word. But I mentioned The Beatles and Rolling Stones as being in a comparable category to the Beach Boys. I'd have to think about which other bands would fit in there, but you get the idea.

I'm not saying the group had no talent. And I know they all played a part in influencing the band's music (Mike as lyricist/frontman, Carl and David with rock n roll guitars, etc.). But relative to other elite bands with more balanced collaborative approaches, the Beach Boys consisted of one genius surrounded by a group of competent musicians. Many non-Brian songs were definitely good. But almost none of them reached the artistic zenith of Brian's compositions. That even includes Sunflower, which although it could be argued is certainly one of the band's best albums, doesn't have individual songs which demonstrate the same level of dexterity as Brian's work. Once again, the band was capable of creating good music, but it simply didn't reach the same level of quality as the Brian-directed incarnation. Let me put it another way. The reason The Beach Boys can be mentioned in the sentence as The Beatles is due solely to Brian Wilson.

Dr. John Becker, I agree with your assessment of Smile. The project was simply too overwhelming to even produce, especially considering Brian's limits, and those of 1960s technology itself.

I think the latter was key...I think even if Brian didn't have a breakdown, he wouldn't have been able to complete Smile due to the technological limitations of the time. Hell, my personal belief has long been that Brian realized that at some point, and that kind of led him down that slippery slope.

I remember reading a theory on here that Brian canned Smile because he thought it was garbage.

I think that's not very far fetched

I think he began to tell himself and convince himself that it was garbage. I don't think he wanted to think that way, but that he simply had to in order to escape the gravitational pull the project had come to exert upon him.

That's your opinion. I think it's not just one of Dennis' best songs, but one of the best songs The Beach Boys ever recorded.
Again, that's your opinion. I think it's a brilliant song.

It goes without saying it's my opinion...I mean, need I point to the title of the thread here? I know a lot of people will definitely disagree with me here, but I feel like there are probably other fans out there who are as lukewarm on Forever as I am but rarely speak up about it because of the canonical status granted it.

BW's movie should be about the rise and fall of SMiLE. It would be a classic if the screen writers could express all the factors in the collapse of the album and BW's fall.

I really hope it's about different eras of his life. SMiLE era is cool and all, but I'd rather see more focus on '77-'78 Brian: Imagine him pounding away on a farty synth, belting out unintelligible cocaine addled words - all of this booming out of 8 story theatre speakers.

I hope the message of the film is that he brought happiness and joy to millions and millions of people - which brought him pain and confusion - but he started using music to heal himself.

It will be about different aspects of his life, hence why Paul Dano and John Cusack are both playing him.

Of course. But it doesn't mean the other band members had 'little talent' as you put it.

Back to unpopular opinions.

Carl looked grouchy after he'd grown that beard.

His only good songs were Angel Come Home, Livin' With A Heartache, and Heaven, and none of them are as good as Surf Jam!

Not if Dano plays him in '66 and Cusack plays him in '67. Or if they keep swopping around. Or if there's two Brians at once. Wacky eh? Maybe I should write the screenplay

Yeah but I meant "little" relative to the more collaborative outputs of most other comparable groups.

Sounds like a screenplay Brian himself would have written circa 1967.

I really dislike overreaching biopics, biopics that try to cram too long a period into a single film and struggle to maintain any semblance of continuity by means of increasingly crappy makeup jobs.

Lawrence of Arabia really works because it doesn't overextend in hopelessly trying to portray every significant event of his life from cradle to grave. I just hate movies that do that. Everything is cramped and disconnected, months and even years pass between scenes with little indication to the viewer as to how much time is supposed to have gone by besides some subtle, neigh imperceptible makeup tweaks. Even good biopics that go this route suffer enormously from biting off much more than they can chew, like Gandhi. As good of a film as Gandhi is, it really lacks an internal sense of coherency, the first time I saw it I really didn't understand that many of the early scenes were still supposed to be in South Africa.

I think the trick is, as shown by Lawrence of Arabia, is to make a single, digestible stretch of time symbolic of the entire life of the individual. The problem tends to be that some viewers are very literal, and frankly small minded, and get upset if every important event of the individual's experiences isn't portrayed in turn. That's ultimately why I have little faith in a Brian Wilson biopic that tries to overdiversify.

If you just made a movie about the Smile period, or the mid-70s, or the first or second Landy eras, if you focused exclusively on one of those periods you'd have some contingent of fans showing up to express dissatisfaction *this* event wasn't given any screen time, or that the events of *that* period weren't depicted. To be honest, I would be exceedingly happy with any of the above films, and I would rather have a single good movie focusing on just one of the periods than one watered down bad one that tried too hard to accommodate everything. To do otherwise is putting too much emphasis on the parts and not enough on the whole.

I have to agree with you on those points. I was initially worried when I heard it was the screenwriter of "I'm Not There" and could picture a similar effort falling flat. Well, the critics would love it but I'd get bored after working out the references and injokes. Miranda Richardson as Murry Wilson. Richard Gere as Mike AND Stan Love having conversations with himself. God, I'm tired of irony and tricksy this or that. Just tell a good story about characters I care about!

 But he also worked on "Rampart" with James Ellroy and that was a nice small, effective character piece. The casting seems encouraging.

My vote (that nobody sane would care about) is definitely for a Smile or Landyfication feature, you could really focus and even an idiot executive could sigh and burble on nonsensically about the "character arc" as if they understand a fuckin' thing about writing.

 But those movies won't be made until everybody is dead.

This movie is going to practically saint Brian, combined with the memoirs and media barrage turning him into even more of a cartoon idiot savant character that will reduce the Mike and Bruce Boosters to frothing rage for years to come. You guys complained about David Leaf? You're about to get that times ten. Well, you'll always have the Stamos version.

Bring on the sainthood of BW!!! :lol

I'll sell you some of his beard hair from 1976. I'm told it can heal the sick.

I guess you'd have to chew it or something.

I never realized Jeff Foskett was somehow unpopular until reading these boards.

He's not. There's just a half dozen guys who really, really, really don't like him.

That's because when he stays at their house, he pisses the couch and then turns the cushions over and pretends it's a "joke" if they call him on it. Well, I'm calling him on it.

Poppy's been sloppy.

Tee-hee.

Well said! Totally agree!!  :pirate  Great point about how many overlook/excuse/tolerate BW88's production, while others can't get over Imagination's "slickness."  If it's the same people... they got some 'splainin to do!


Yeah... good points.  I think, unlike Brian, Denny didn't have his childhood to explore and grow his muse and musical abilities.  He spent it other ways!  But he eventually learned on the job... in public.  As you might expect, some of his stuff as a result, is both sophomoric and brilliant at the same time.

The thing about him is, he had a narrative -- a well of deep emotions that inspired him.  As did Brian.  The sh-t you can't buy or teach.  But Brian had a super brain to sort out the crazy mathematical harmonies.  Denny's was an unmanned fire hose, flappin' on the street.  When he was in command of it, his stuff really stood out from the rest.  Makes you stop what you're doing and go "... what is this?"

Why, thanks!  It's nice to hear I'm not the only one with some of these opinions.  :)




 ;D

But that implies that the Rolling Stones and The Beatles are good bands...

The Beach Boys were robbed of their recognition and few people know of them today outside of the Anglo-sphere. In my opinion, the Beach Boys were the best thing to ever happen to pop but sadly most of the world buys into the dreck that the Rolling Stones and Beatles put out, at which Rolling Stone Magazine completely creams their shorts over and gives 5 out of 5 for everything, even including the Beatles' lame debut album on their top 500.

The world knows The Beach Boys through Brian, yes, but don't be a pleb and think that therefore only makes Brian songs good because they are well known. Don't make me get Piero Scaruffi on you.

Careful, this is the unpopular opinions thread, not the unacceptable opinions thread.

Besides, if someone says they hate the Beatles, they're just pretending or trying to be clever. It's impossible to hate the greatest-musical-geniuses-ever-in-the-universe.   ;)

Can you make tea from them?

And, not unimportant from a business point of view: can you reproduce them with a 3-D printer?

How many bands have balanced collaborative approaches? A genuine question. Surely most bands are about 1 or 2 songwriters with the other guys being musicians.

You best be joking about the last part, mate.

I am.......but if I wasn't?

Meh.


Just little talent, i.e. almost no talent.


Who cares? Why sit around worrying about what's "elite" or not before forming opinions of it?


Again, who cares? It's like you're dismissing things solely on the grounds of "It's not as good as Brian Wilson". a) What is? and b) Why does it matter? Like what you like and enjoy the music, don't sit there almost liking something and then saying "It's not as good as the greatest song ever written. It's no good. It's not elite. It doesn't reach the artistic zenith of Brian Wilson's compositions."


Again, why should the Beatles matter at all in all this? Why should every conversation about music turn into a discussion about the Beatles? "Hey man, check out this new band, I really think you're gonna like..." "ARE THEY THE BEATLES?" "Uh, no, they..." "DO THEY REACH THE ARTISTIC ZENITH OF THE BEATLES' BEST COMPOSITIONS?" "I don't know, you'd have to..." "THEN f*** OFF."

And naw. When you consider their formative years, Mike's lyrics were essential to them gaining a fanbase which, I'd bet my eyeballs, helped pave the road for Brian to grow as an artist. Dennis, I'd say, got Mike started on that path. The other guys' contributions varied and helped the band along later on, and certainly Mike and Dennis contributed different things all their own later on.

Sorry if any of this came off as particularly nasty, I didn't mean for it to, I just can't follow the logic behind this kind of stuff. It almost feels like people won't let themselves enjoy a lot of really great stuff (or at least not enjoy it nearly to the extent they could) because they've set up a million walls, boundaries and rules when art isn't about those sorts of things at all.

I would be very flustered at my computer, run to my bed and sleep. Angrily.

Nice post! I completely agree. I always tell people when this stuff comes up, that if you like it and it moves you, then it is GOOD, no matter what anyone else thinks.

I appreciate maybe 3 or 4 Beatles album and that's being generous. I don't get them and I never will, you couldn't pay me to listen to “There’s a Place” or “You Can’t Do That” or the albums they're from. You might put that opinion down to being a Beach Boys fan but I felt this way before discovering The Beach Boys. I put a lot of The Beatles hype down to John Lennon's demigod like status.



Hilarious. I wonder if Jeff know there's a couple of people out there who really hate him  :lol

Me thinks yer exaggerating a bit ^_^ over half the time I talk to people (who don't post here) about the reunion shows etc. I get asked "Who's the chubby dark-haired guy? His voice is really, really grating" without even saying a word about the guy to them prior.

I doubt he gives a damn what people think of him. Like it or not, he's successful and they're not.

he told me he reads the board daily and when he comes across a negative post about himself he listens to getmad.mp3

Also, yeah man, successful people (like touring members of a Beach Boys solo project) should never, ever take criticism into account from people with less money than they have. I mean they have money, they're obviously always right. "I don't listen to those lowly pissants, they're just fans who give me said money" they say.

I think Jeff does a good job at the background falsetto. It's just the leads (Why Do Fools, Don't Worry Baby, chorus to Kokomo) I'm not a big fan of.

How can you really like a guy who says, "THE GREAT, BRIIIIAAAAAANNNNNN WILSSSSSSSOOOONNNNNN"

I guess that's my unpopular opinion of the day.

 :king

Except for GV, Cabinessence, H&V, and Vegetables, I prefer the BWPS songs over the original Smile recordings.  

This wonderful, energetic surfing combo went into rapid decline after the Today album (about half of which already shows signs of the oncoming decay, in the form of syrupy adult-oriented 'ballads').

Their leader, Brian 'Icarus' Wilson so wanted to join the then-burgeoning 'hippie-movement' (read: masses of work-shy, hairy, drugged-out, communist enemies of all American values, who were only out for free sex anyway), that he created (if that's the word) atrocities like the Pet Sounds and Friends albums, both insults to the finely tuned ears of all true music lovers.

All in all, their story is an awful warning, a cautionary tale. Don't stray from the beaten path.

Well put. Quite frankly anyone who is familiar with the Beach Boys full output and yet still believes (or pretends to believe) that 'Brian Wilson = the Beach Boys' is a fucking idiot. Sorry to be blunt, but its true.

The only aspect of your post I'd disagree with is when you say 'I realize the songs here vary in quality'. Aside from Getcha Back and Keepin' The Summer Alive, I would actually say that the above list is an utterly tremendous collection of songs; one in fact that most other groups would kill for.

I've been called worse  :lol

I don't mind the post Friends stuff, but really, the only stuff I  care about is the classic BW period '61 to '68. Pure magic.

So yes, I'm a Brianista. The only reason I don't frequent the bloo is they're a bunch of nobs

I third it without any hesitance!

Btw, it took me a huge minute to figure out who that must be under "Brian Wilson" alias. Great post, RDZ!! In fact, one of your best ones!

I've never listened to any full album after Love You and probably never will because what I've heard has either been garbage or only very slightly greater quality than that with maybe three or four exceptions. I think people (well, here anyway) are way too generous about Beach Boys albums from 1978 onwards.

Pet Sounds is not an atrocity... >:D

Hmm... interesting.  What still blows my mind, is how amazing BWPS actually is.  There's no way it should have been this good.  There's too many reasons.  No Beach Boys.  It's not 1966.  And Brian's voice is nothing what it was... yet I don't even notice it on BWPS.  The focus is squarely on the music.

The original recordings sound stony and mystical.  Adventurous and new.  Groundbreaking.  BWPS however, has a nice polish to it - an upbeat and positive sheen.  It feels joyful.  Clean.  But not in a "sanitized way."  It had 37 years to bake (no pun intended), but to re-record it and "finish it" so many years later -- it had more reasons to be bad, weird and to just plain miss the mark.  But it was awesome.


Both are fantastic.  But I can see one preferring the sprite, sparkly -- and more finished, BWPS.

‍

I couldn't have said it better. I enjoy the '66/'67 recordings, but the modern polished sound just suits some songs better (like On A Holiday, the spiritual section, In Blue Hawaii).

(sigh)

I suppose one unpopular opinion I have is that many, if not most, posters on this board are way, way, way too emotionally invested in the supposed greatness of every band member.  I would never say that Brian is/was the Beach Boys, but he was far and away the main songwriting and composing talent.

And notice that a good portion of the above list is Dennis songs, while others ("Tears in the Morning," "Take a Load Off Your Feet") would be laughed at by most people outside this board.

If all of the pre-Holland Beach Boys' songs that were not primarily by Brian or Dennis disappeared tomorrow, I think I'd only miss Feel Flows.

Actually I ought to amend my previous post a tad, as I didn't realise Tears In The Morning was included in that list and I absolutely loathe that song with a passion. Otherwise I stand by my statement/opinion.

The Beach Boys ALL had/have low IQs, even Brian.

Bruce Johnston had a brief period in the earlier sixties when he rocked; otherwise he is an utter schmuck.

Mike Love deserves some of what he gets.

Happy Endings is sh*t.

Wilson Phillips worship Satan.

I fear you're not making yourself very popular around these quarters. Oh, um, wait...

A Schmuck who writes Schmaltz? I like that! :) Wilson Phillips worship Satan? Chynna will damn you to hell for saying that. ;)

I am embarrassed for the BB every time I hear the lyrics to 'When I Grow Up to Be A Man'

God Only Knows is not the best song on PS

Don't Worry Baby is vastly overrated (and on a similar note, She Knows Me Too Well is very underrated)

The Little Girl I Once Knew is a top 10, maybe top 5 BB song

The Don't Talk vocal snippet from the PS box set is the best music Brian/The BB ever released

Another one I remembered: Mike's rendition of I'm Waiting for the Day is worlds better than Brian's.

Also, Brian's performance of GOK rivals Carl's.

This one surprises me.  Their albums are littered with embarrassing lyrics, but When I Grow Up is not one that I put in that group.  IMO, contemporaries like Don't Hurt My Little Sister and Salt Lake City are far, far worse.

Another one that stands out for me is It's OK.  And if lyrics had been written for The Nearest Faraway Place, they doubtlessly would have horrid as well.

It's Ok has nightmarishly bad lyrics.

Most embarrassing moment on a roadtrip was when I put on TWOTS compilation, everyone was enjoying it until this song blasted itself through the friggin speakers...there I am hanging my head in shame while quickly trying to press the 'forward' button.

WHY IS THAT SONG ON ANY COMPILATION?

Personally, I love that song. Maybe its because I am fascinated by the sleazy late 1970s BBs. :lol 

At least they did not include the "fun, fun, fun" line. :)

It's like Do It Again part 2, but way worse of course.

I kinda like it.

I love the lyrics of It's OK. Lookin' good down the hood of a funky ride! Crank that sucker up - maybe the only "fun in the sun" song that they recorded post-"Do It Again" that actually stands up to their classic hits.

You could, but the best method is via a hookah with a few friends to assist.

I always liked "Almost Summer" By Celebration. It sounded great on AM radio, and seeing Mike and Brian perform it (well, lypsynch it) on American Bandstand was an all-time highlight for me as far as TV appearances go.

 !) Because it is good.  2) It was a hit.

Mike Love deserves, like, 95% of what he gets. His attitude to the group is absolutely atrocious.

(http://i.imgur.com/naBRtbN.gif)

I'm a fan of that particular time frame in BB history and still I have to agree with the assessment that the song's lyrics are... well, "nightmarishly bad" might be an exaggeration but they aren't very charming to say the least. If you're in a bad mood and put on this song you may find yourself wanting to punch whoever came up with those lyrics and that's something I haven't ever experienced with their original 60s-era fun-in-the-sun material. That said, I still think it's a great song, can't help it, must be the bass groove and Dennis' vocal.

Carl's voice was not really all that phenomenal. Brian's was more pure and effortless, especially in the higher registers.

Jeff Foskett is all right.

Brian's current support system may be extensive, and may be necessary. But, it does not equal Landy-like control.

Mike's stage persona has become borderline creepy.

"Forever" is repetitious.

"Beaches in Mind" isn't a masterpiece, but it's a fun, catchy song. Ditto for "Bill and Sue".

After C50, The Beach Boys name should be reserved for special projects that involve the whole group. Mike can continue touring as The Beach Boys Touring Band, or some such thing.

The hits era of the early sixties is just as good as the less popular (so therefore, more hipster cool) late sixties/seventies.

"Fun in the Sun" songs are fun. So is "Barbara Ann."

TM doesn't seem to be helping Mike much. Or, maybe it is. Which is a scary thought.

Don't you mean Carl's performance rivals Carl's, since he did both?

Well of course, Brian had better range in the higher registers, strong too! Carl's voice was sweeter and breathier in the high range. I will say, Carl's voice was more varied than Brian's. He kept better care of his voice too.

Jeff is alright... for Brian's old vocals. I don't think he fills Carl's role all that well, though.

Agree with control over Brian.

You guys with using "creepy". You creep me out using it so much. Do you have sick minds in that it is all that you are looking for?

Agree with you on Beaches In Mind.

Tell that to Brian, Al and Carl's Estate. I'll bet that they will disagree with you.

All the eras are good and all hip. Wish it had been like that from 67-72.

Yep, it's all good, even Barbara Ann. :)

If TM isn't helping Mike, then man, that would indeed be scary. ;)

Michael does deserve what he gets. No one else has helped keep the band alive more than Michael. No one is a bigger supporter of Brian than Michael. Yes, that's so atrocious.

AGD or someone may be able to confirm but that may be the case. Is there a legal reason we often see the term 'The Beach Boys Band'? Their own website is a case in point.

http://www.beachboysband.net/

Wait a minute isn't TM all about dropping the Ego?????  :o

The Pet Sounds Sessions has a version with Brian on lead.

Speaking of that website, it says there that
"THE ORIGINAL FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE BEACH BOYS ARE ...
Mike Love / Brian Wilson / Alan Jardine /
Dave Marks / Bruce Johnston
Carl Wilson (Deceased) / Dennis Wilson (Deceased)"

My first thought was, "Hey cool.  They're giving David credit as a founding member and that's fine because things went so fast with so much overlap in the beginning."  It might not be technically correct but OK.  But then I went, "Huh?  Bruce???"

OK....

I guess Bruce is an original member in the sense that he was in the group during their classic era and it sets him apart from the other guys in the touring band.  Like saying original members Mike Love and Bruce Johnston is simpler than saying "original member Mike Love" and "touring member turned bandmate who left after a few years then came back as a producer and started touring with them again and decided to become a member of the group again Bruce Johnston."

That's the site dedicated to the backing musicians. Hence "Beach Boys Band."

Ok. The 'Tour Schedule' link also makes an effort to differentiate however.


http://www.beachboysband.net/TOURSCH/BB_TOUR_SCH.htm

 THE TOURING BEACH BOYS - 2013
featuring two original members: Mike Love & Bruce Johnston

Hey its just nit-picking I know. But the site is making every effort to inform that this is not the C50 line-up and good on them.

And if you scroll down to the bottom and play "Name that tune," all of the songs there are Adrian Baker recordings.  :lol

That is probably the best post ever. And I'm never one to say that. But I hate the whole "well he's rich and you're not, so f*** off" thing. Strikes me as a very American type thing, moreso a conservative, "I've got mine, go get your own" type thing. Sucks.

That's what it says on the tracklisting, but several people on this forum have noted that it is in fact Carl on all the alternate PSS versions. I have no idea if it's true or not, Carl's earliest vocals sometimes did sound a whole lot like Brian.

It's Carl. David Leaf later admitted it was a mistake.

After listening to that again, I don't see how I was ever fooled into thinking that was Brian's voice.

This is the guy who responded to a US #3 album (and a mostly artistically successful one) and a massive worldwide tour in stadiums he hasn't seen since the 80's by saying 'no thank you', and would rather play second fiddle to boy bands and The Gruffalo in the UK instead. He is a classic example of foolish pride.

I love Mike Love, but Brian comes out and says 'Hey guys, I want to put 3 albums of wildly varying material soon with Al and David Marks and my great band and dubious guitar legends' and Mike wants me to come see him support JLS and The Gruffalo. One is an artist at this stage. The other is a hack.

wow, I love it.

You're the bomb hypehat

Agreed, shady.... ;D

My cousin Brian Wilson isn't a genius.

Mike Love is a great singer and a good performer.  I believe he has admiration for Brian but I also believe that admiration isn't as high as his jealousy and his greed.  There is no doubt that Mike suffers from a superiority complex and I feel embarrassed for him because he seems to be oblivious to his reputation and is only interested in how much credit he gets and how much money it gets him.  The Smile lawsuit was one of the most ridiculous examples of this and honestly, I understand completely why people think of Mike Love as such a prick in reference to that.

After playing alternate GOK again, I still don't hear any trace of Carl's voice - it's definitely Brian. I can't describe why I think so, but that's him. I'm aware of the fact that Carl & Brian sound similar at times, no surprise since they're brothers. However, not to the extent that they can't be distinguished. Surely, I'd recognize if that'd be indeed Carl on another GOK. So, let me trust my own ears, i.e. agree to disagree with posters here who think otherwise.

L.A. Light is a very good album.  Remove "SB" and cut "HCTN" down to 4 minutes, and the album compares favorably with anything else I was digging of the period:  Ambrosia, Player, Christopher Cross, Boz Scaggs, etc.  Even as is, it is MILES better than the album before and the album after.  Very well done.

Excellent first post. I like you. I like you a lot. And I agree 100%.

Agree with that, although I'd rather keep SB and cut HCTN entirely. Although saying LA Light Album is a good album and better than MIU and/or KTSA isn't much of an unpopular opinion, at least on this board.

I agree that HCTN should have been the single mix, but I am fine With Shortenin' Bread ending the LP. Kinda like Transcendental Meditation ending Friends. It really needed another Brian tune to fill it out. I agree too that it was very contemporary in 1979.

Welcome to the board, job! :)

I totally agree with removing "Shortenon' Bread"; it might be the most misplaced song on any BB album. I also agree with cutting down "Here Comes The Night". But that would leave you enough space for THREE alternate songs, not just two. With all the recording that Brian Wilson did in 1976-77, it's hard to believe they couldn't use some of those songs, and the one they do choose is "Shortenin' Bread".  ::)

California Feelin' and another Dennis Bambu track would've made for a killer album! (Oh, and yes, welcome to the board Job!)

Welcome to the board! I'd rather listen to almost any BB album than LA Light, but I suppose that's just as unpopular of an opinion as well.

I agree, there's no way that isn't Brian.

I enjoy it, but have to be in the right mood. That album can really - I hate to say it - not bore you, but mellow you out maybe. A lot of slow stuff. It was the great shoulda/coulda/woulda album for me. After so much Brian on 15 Big Ones, Love You, and even MIU, I was expecting so much. So disappointing. He's basically not even on the album. You need a magnifying glass to find him...

Surely the fact that Dennis's songs didn't feature on the previous three albums at all is even more disappointing, particularly as - unlike Brian - he was in his song-writing prime?

Half a page on the LA album and no comment yet on Sumahama, which I have always kinda liked. :p

I don't mind slick, AC pop - I just don't think there's much substance on that album. Nothing to grab you. Good Timin' is really nice, Lady Lynda is fine, Sumahama isn't terrible. Everything else just does nothing for me. Part of it also must have to do with the fact I can barely stand Dennis' vocals when they got so raspy that he took on another persona (vocally). I know people cream for that sound but I'm not a fan at all.

To each his own, but I will say that "Love Surrounds Me" actually does grab me, even though (or maybe BECAUSE) the sound and structure is strikingly unusual for the boys.  There's just something about that tune that I really dig.

How's THAT for an unpopular opinion?

And thanks to all those who were so welcoming.  This seems like a great board.

Again, sorry to disappoint but 'Love Surrounds Me' is also widely considered a very good tune. Now say that you really dig 'Summer Of Love' and you'd be treading on egg shells...

Mike is certainly on the egotistical side and has filed more that his share of lawsuits. Outside of those areas, one could make quite a case for saying that he is a decent hardworking human being. Dennis seems to get a free pass by a lot of people on this board. His behavior was deplorable at times and it impacted the band in a negative way. I have never seen Mike when he wasn't on stage doing his best to give the fans their money's worth.

I am not a Mike apologist but Dennis has been gone for almost 30 years. I don't believe that he was contributing much to the band, except Baby Blue, for the last 5 years. I think that there was a window of time when he peaked but then there was a sad decline. I think that his stuff on Sunflower was great. CAPST was just okay. POB was way overrated.

Since the LA discussion has come up, another one comes to mind for me...

The worst three albums for the band vocally-speaking are TWGMTR, KTSA, and L.A.  I do think L.A. has some fantastic tracks, but the processing on certain tracks is grating to say the least.  Keepin' the Summer Alive, Johnston's second production album, suffers from much of the same problem and has much less song quality to support itself. I think the autotune on TWGMTR speaks for itself despite a number of great songs and little disastrous.

I have no problems with any of the three. After all the complaints going around about autotune, the only one that really sounds terrible on a few tracks is on the new Live CD.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the Landy lyrics on BW 88. They're fine for me!

Love Surrounds Me was long, slow and boring.

Friends was a horrifically underproduced tragedy.

You and I is Denny's best song.

Carl failed miserably at "singing" soulful.

The Night Was So Young was their greatest post pet sounds song.

To me, LA is less boring than either CATP or Holland. I really like Angel Come Home and the intro to Sumahama, just before Mike starts singing.

CalFeelin' and All Alone imo! the alternate and uncomplete All Alone is the best one ;]

Haven't given a listen to the live CD, and I consider TWGMTR a good album overall, so I'm not saying the vocals are that much of a problem.  However, I do think it is noticeable in comparison to even much inferior songs from the past where the voices sound natural if nothing else.

I think Crack at Your Love is a good song and one of the only highlights on BB' 85  :o

Most of Sweet Insanity is completely average, with awkward sounding leads from Brian and was generally a step down from BW88, but "This Song Wants To Sleep With You Tonight" is a nice love song with a Pet Sounds-sounding bass overdub and "Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel" is one of his best solo songs ever. It's intro sounds slicker than anything Joe Thomas could ever dream of producing and is really a haunting statement on Landy's control over Brian's relationships.

This Song Wants to Sleep with you Tonight is from well after the Sweet Insanity period though isn`t it?

Was it? Guess I can blame the not-quite-legal channels for not being period accurate, then.  ;D Brian certainly sounded the part on that song though. Glad his voice has recovered since then.

Yeah, it's produced by Don Was, written with Andy Paley? 1995, I think.

I hope that's not an unpopular opinion

If Landy had been allowed to write new lyrics for the SMile songs as he had intended, making it a "self help" mental therapy themed album, the result would have far surpassed BWPS.

Landy wanted to redo SMiLE?  I've heard of this... did any work come of it?

Setting aside the fact that he was Brian's shrink at the time -- Landy was really just like another collaborator -- a working relationship Brian usually preferred.

Rio Grande sounds forced and a little contrived.  Some great moments, of course -- but it never did much for me as a "piece."  I don't think Brian was actually "into" doing that one at that time.  Perhaps on its own it's good -- but it doesn't fit the mid-80s aesthetic, nor the aesthetic of that album.  It's just all wrong for me.

I love Male Ego.

Me too. The most rockin' song on 85.

A fellow fan of tasty ladies. I hope we'll still like it when we're in our eighties.

I agree with you, only correction it is still long, slow & boring.

Carl's lead vocals from 15BO to LA Light are awful.

They are different on 15 Big Ones, I'll give you that, but none are awful. Everything on LA is normal Carl type vocals. I really Like his leads on Love You.

EDITED FOR SPELLING

"There" different? Didn't you take someone to task for poor grammar and spelling last week?

Carl is not a very good lead guitarist.

Yes, I did. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I really appreciate when you do such things. I will make the necessary correction. See how easy it is to bring up mistakes without getting all pissy about it. Keep up the great work!

You understood the original purpose of this thread. :)

I never knew who did what on a Brian Wilson production -- but if Brian stuck with Carl on a guitar lead, (as he did) that should give everyone pause when passing judgement.

Personally, what I assume was Carl, was actually quite inspiring to me.  Glassy, passionate solos.  Denny's primal drums too.  Love them.  And I suspect they also inspired Brian's "palette."  So to dis Carl's guitar leads... is just wrong.


  :jedi

You haven't understood the original purpose of this thread. ;D

The God Who Made The Radio  ;D

Why not use an apostrophe and have they're instead of they are?

Since the mistake was brought to my attention, I figured I would spell it out fully instead of using the contraction.

Maybe a cheeky bit of italics on the "are". Just a thought.......

Maybe I'm taking the secular approach to the title... That Guy Who Made the Radio ;D

When the two-fer of KTSA and BB came out, I was really disappointed to not see it on the track listing. When it came on at the end of the cd, it put a smile on my face. When I got my first cd player in early 1988, I bought the cd right away to hear that track. It is a fun song and a great Mike and Brian vocal. I think that it is a breath of fresh air that will have you humming the "what's your name" part for the rest of the day.

I love the way you remember exactly when you got your first CD player. With me it was summer '91

I'm just not digging this ellipsis at all. Sorry Stephen, it's an awkward length.

who cares about the number of friggin' dots?

Some sort of dot analyst I'd imagine

That's what all the girls say.

:lol I'd think of a witty response but....... I can't stop laughing.

If your next message is:


don't worry man, we can speak it out bro to bro, PM me.

 :lol

Nonsense. Dennis dared to be different. The rest of the group were (terminally) stuck in the past. That's the reality.

At least Brian became by the early 70's when he regressed into his oldies music. He didn't approve of the guitar driven hippie period and since his efforts were recieved lukewarmly after PS he slowly gave up and decided what the audience wanted was not something he was prepared to make.

Carl and Dennis tried to stay contemporary and Mike& Al could be contemporary when directed so. Brian however was the real oldies guy. Bruce was a joke. the least hippest dude to live on the west coast.

Where and when did Brian state he didn't approve of the guitar driven hippie period? Would like to read the quote(s). (I ask, because he picked several songs from this period for his 'Brian Wilson presents Beach Boys Classics' album - and in fact he also chose two songs specifically from this period when discussing songs which almost made the cut on the album's inner sleeves! Is this perhaps a case of you personally imagining Brian disapproved of this period and so you're claiming it as fact...?).

Bruce has always been the hippest Beach Boy.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpqjqb04171qlghpmo1_400.jpg)

I've only expressed my own unpopular opinion. Not gonna change it in further future. But I respect your devotion to Dennis's music.

The last thing you see before you get pistol-whipped

Dennis was what is called a "user" or "hanger-on"

Which begs the question, why isn't your name dwtheuserorhangeron?

don't feed him.

Yes, you're probably right. I just felt I needed to point out the incongruity of his remark.

Haha, a valid point.

I'm really digging the Beach Boys '85 album lately.  Particularly the Carl numbers.  "It's Gettin' Late," "Maybe I Don't Know," and "Where I Belong" are real gems.

Agreed, Carl stole the show on that album.

Cabinessence and Do You Like Worms are my least favorite tracks on Smile.

I like the verses on Cabinessence, they're mellow and kind of spooky, but then the chorus jumps in, very big and kind of ruins the atmosphere. The chorus isn't that impressive to me, either.

I like the drum intro to DYLW a lot, but it kind of falls of for me after that, although I do like the phrasing of "rock, rock, roll, Plymouth rock, roll over."

I wrote somewhere I do not like Evie Sands's version of Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again). I have since then changed my mind, think it is an awesome song! Listened to it a lot the past days.

+1

My unpopular BB opinion...'Time to Get Alone' is way overrated. Its an ok song, but not one that lives up to the standards set by Brian before 1967.

Maybe if it was recorded by Redwood, it could have made sense. But with a BB production, nope.

Maybe so, but there is nothing as pretty as "deep and wide" section. Just stunning!

I agree that the chorus isn't nearly as beautiful as the verses. But the music does go very well with the lyrics. First there's the calm and quiet country side, and then this big, steaming iron horse comes rolling by. It's quite brilliant how Brian captured that in the music.

Mmm...since its an personal opinion, I gotta admit it doesnt do it for me: Dont like the break, nor the echo, nor how the voices harmonize there. But I do like how Carl comes after and saves the melody.

But again, its not a song as big as most people in this board put it. That's why its an unpopular point of view  ;D