MiC up for order on Amazon, August release

[Matt Bielewicz]

Jeff beat me to it this time, and said pretty much what I was going to! (Thanks Jeff). But here's what I was going to say anyway...

Sheriff, I happen to agree with you about the merits of the Beach Boys (though of course not everyone in the world agrees), and I hear where you're coming from as regards putting together a set that exhaustively covers all of the releases, as a theoretical concept (though in practice, as I said, a set chosen by me would probably stop including singles some time in the 1970s, but that's me and my taste, what'cha gonna do?). But such an exhaustive concept simply isn't a commercial proposition, and today record companies are less than ever concerned about deserving causes and a set that makes theoretical sense, and ever more concerned with making return on their outlay and time. We can look ill on that all we like, but it won't change things.

Best thing to do is get all the tracks from the various sources and burn your own disc, or create a playlist that pleases you if your tracks are all 'virtual'. I'm certainly looking forward to getting full-on geekoid on a custom tracklist of my own devising after MIC comes out...

[Mahalo]

At the end of the day I will hope more archival releases...


I think I'm going to wait till the price comes down dramatically to get this. I've already waited long enough.

The BB's are so lame for a reason- 50 Big Ones? Really? Everyone knows there is another greatest hits CD year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year,year after year, after year, year after year, after year,  year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year, year after year, after year,...


Then to release 48 of those same 50 songs the very next year on a box set? We are being played for chumps. Well, at least I didn't by the 50 Big 'uns.

[Matt Bielewicz]

I didn't buy 50 Big Ones either. I thought: "Mmm... Stereo Darlin and Wild Honey... yeah... but... I'll just wait to see what turns out to be on Made In California..."

Glad, now...!

[JoelBarrish]

There are others - "East Meets West", "Happy Endings", "Lady Liberty", "Crocodile Rock", "Wipeout", "Still Cruisin", "Somewhere Near Japan", "Problem Child", "Hot Fun In The Summertime", and an argument could even be made for "The Beach Boys' Medley", which was a Top 15 hit. Again, I don't think the sales or musical merit (which is subjective) should dictate their historical significance. Each one of them had a purpose, a story behind them - THEY WERE LEGITIMATE RELEASES BY THE BEACH BOYS! To me, the perfect place to house all of these records would be a boxed set. 

The problem is that many of the singles that the band released after a certain point weren't very good. I do think that they had to make a decision based on perceived quality as well as whether things were released as singles or whatever.

Another problem is that record companies aren't museums, and they don't care about what is "deserved."  They're businesses that are motivated by making money.  It just isn't realistic to think otherwise.

If you think that certain recordings should be preserved for all to hear, you should try petitioning the Nationl Recording Registry or something similar.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. And the record companies are totally fixated on what's going to sell, but it's still an odd decision putting all this on one box. Put your mind in the eyes of a casual music listener who's never heard the Beach Boys outside of a few hits. You really think they're going to lay down 100 dollars for a boxset of hits and rarities as opposed to 20 bucks for 50 Big Ones? That's already making a massive assumption that the average listener even buys CDs anymore, while most just illegally download. So knowing that, one would assume that a boxset of this nature would appeal only to the fans regardless of what's on it, so I can see why some feel it's a missed opportunity on the band's part. It sucks as a person who actually purchases their music and cares about rarities and outtakes when you have to buy two or three boxsets and multiple compilations and get stuck with 4 or 5 copies of I Get Around and Kokomo. Is that unreasonable to be irritated?

[Mahalo]

I hear ya- I'm getting pretty sick of the games with these BB's releases, making me want to get them just for the stereo versions. It's not worth all the money. One day I will find them in the dollar bin somewhere and get it then...

So knowing that, one would assume that a boxset of this nature would appeal only to the fans regardless of what's on it, so I can see why some feel it's a missed opportunity on the band's part. It sucks as a person who actually purchases their music and cares about rarities and outtakes when you have to buy two or three boxsets and multiple compilations and get stuck with 4 or 5 copies of I Get Around and Kokomo. Is that unreasonable to be irritated?

No, not at all.

[Andrew G. Doe]

There are others - "East Meets West", "Happy Endings", "Lady Liberty", "Crocodile Rock", "Wipeout", "Still Cruisin", "Somewhere Near Japan", "Problem Child", "Hot Fun In The Summertime", and an argument could even be made for "The Beach Boys' Medley", which was a Top 15 hit. Again, I don't think the sales or musical merit (which is subjective) should dictate their historical significance. Each one of them had a purpose, a story behind them - THEY WERE LEGITIMATE RELEASES BY THE BEACH BOYS! To me, the perfect place to house all of these records would be a boxed set. 

The problem is that many of the singles that the band released after a certain point weren't very good. I do think that they had to make a decision based on perceived quality as well as whether things were released as singles or whatever.

Another problem is that record companies aren't museums, and they don't care about what is "deserved."  They're businesses that are motivated by making money.  It just isn't realistic to think otherwise.

If you think that certain recordings should be preserved for all to hear, you should try petitioning the Nationl Recording Registry or something similar.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. And the record companies are totally fixated on what's going to sell, but it's still an odd decision putting all this on one box. Put your mind in the eyes of a casual music listener who's never heard the Beach Boys outside of a few hits. You really think they're going to lay down 100 dollars for a boxset of hits and rarities as opposed to 20 bucks for 50 Big Ones? That's already making a massive assumption that the average listener even buys CDs anymore, while most just illegally download. So knowing that, one would assume that a boxset of this nature would appeal only to the fans regardless of what's on it, so I can see why some feel it's a missed opportunity on the band's part. It sucks as a person who actually purchases their music and cares about rarities and outtakes when you have to buy two or three boxsets and multiple compilations and get stuck with 4 or 5 copies of I Get Around and Kokomo. Is that unreasonable to be irritated?

Given that this is The Beach Boys, yes, I'd personally consider it very unreasonable to be irritated considering the alternative - that 50 Big Ones was indeed the career-spanning box set. This insatiable greed for more, more, more is becoming most unseemly. Be grateful for what we're getting, not irritated because your pet three archive tracks didn't make the cut. Oh, silly me, I forgot - these are Beach Boys fans, probably the most demanding and ungrateful ever to tread this good earth. If someone hand-delivered the multitrack master of every song they ever recorded, I'd guarantee the response would be "but I don't have the equipment to play it !".

Well, really...

[SMiLE Brian]

We are the most loyal fans, who else would buy "barbara ann" like sixteen times and counting? We are burned out from having to buy songs we own over and over just to get new rarities.

[Mahalo]

IT's not that there are other tracks not included!!! It's that they decided to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-release the same fodaing tunes on this set. Asking all that money and then asking us to buy them again!

I'm a hardcore BB fan- but you know why I get upset? It's because they have SSSSSSOOOOOOOO much talent, and even more GREAT songs/ ideas that are constantly being overlooked- hence they still have the aire of being lame, dorky, and un cool... and what do they do? they give us Barbara frikkin' Ann in stereo. Well gee effin' wizz Batman... does ANYBODY ever go out of their way to put that song on out of free will?

I am grateful for what we are getting- but I'm not stupid. I come onto SSMB to discuss/vent about these stupid things that have little to do with anything because I CARE about the music.

I'm not going to toe the company line on this one-

[Matt Bielewicz]

I rarely enjoy live tracks. They hardly ever sound as good as the studio versions and you don't get the buzz that comes from actually having been at that particular concert, even if you were, back in the day! I'd have left *all* of them off, consigned them to another release.

Can't quite agree… the live version of We Got Love is far superior in arrangement and delivery to the studio version.  Moot, as the song's not on the set anyway but it illustrates the point.

True, John... but to me, *both* versions are still pretty weak. I know a lot of people have been up in arms that We Got Love isn't on the set, but personally, I just don't feel strongly enough about it in any of its versions to really miss it. I find Holland an uneven album, great in parts, and to me WGL is weaker than the weakest bits of the album as released. I think they called it right by leaving it off Holland back in the day, and I won't miss it on MiC.

And of course I don't hate *all* live tracks, it was silly of me to put it so uncompromisingly - which is why I reconsidered and reworded my original post after posting. Sometimes live versions have a quality the studio ones don't, although it's rare that I find those qualities to be superior, or interesting enough to listen to the live versions more than a couple of times. For example, from the Beach Boys universe, the 70s-era live Heroes and Villains on In Concert is kind of interesting, because it's so different; the live band of the day smoothed out a lot of the tempo changes and created an excellent example of a pounding 70s rock song out of it. But do I like it more than the masterfully crafted, weirdly cut and polished SMiLE gem that is the original H&V single? Not a chance. For starters, any version that omits the barbershop 'boys and girls' section is never going to edge out the studio versions for me - that has to be my favourite section, and leaving it out on the grounds that it's too hard to get it right live is NOT a defence (the WonderBrians managed it three decades later, anyway!).

Add to that the fact that so few released live tracks are *really* live and untinkered with after the concert in post-production... the whole concept of 'live recordings' just often seems a bit too daft, really. Go see a live band if you want to hear live music! But I've always preferred listening to albums through headphones to watching bands live anyway... so that's probably just me.

[Nicko1234]

Given that this is The Beach Boys, yes, I'd personally consider it very unreasonable to be irritated considering the alternative - that 50 Big Ones was indeed the career-spanning box set. This insatiable greed for more, more, more is becoming most unseemly. Be grateful for what we're getting, not irritated because your pet three archive tracks didn't make the cut. Oh, silly me, I forgot - these are Beach Boys fans, probably the most demanding and ungrateful ever to tread this good earth. If someone hand-delivered the multitrack master of every song they ever recorded, I'd guarantee the response would be "but I don't have the equipment to play it !".

Well, really...

'Given that this is The Beach Boys'? Meaning what exactly.

I completely disagree that Beach Boys fans are demanding and ungrateful. Let's face it, over the past decade or so there have been countless compilations released (Beach Boys Classics, Summer Love Songs, Warmth of the Sun, 50 Big Ones, Hallmark CD) all offering an unreleased song or two or a few new mixes along with the old songs and yet fans haven't exactly been revolting. This is a genuine question but how many other bands have there stuff constantly issued on compilations every year?

The idea that people should be grateful to Capitol is frankly bizarre. They are a business (obviously) and are making money out of Beach Boys fans every year for the same stuff. Well done to them but it's not exactly something to feel gratitude for.

[AndrewHickey]

IT's not that there are other tracks not included!!! It's that they decided to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-release the same fodaing tunes on this set. Asking all that money and then asking us to buy them again!

And again, we knew this would be the case eighteen months ago. Why get up in arms about it now, when there is some actual new, interesting information -- the stuff that's on the box set that we *don't* already have -- to talk about, rather than at any time in the last eighteen months?

We can't have a simple fucking discussion about the *sixty tracks of unreleased stuff* we're getting because a bunch of whining babies have suddenly woken up to the fact that they're living in the real world rather than magicland where you get everything you ever wanted the second you want it with no downside.

[Nicko1234]

And again, we knew this would be the case eighteen months ago. Why get up in arms about it now, when there is some actual new, interesting information -- the stuff that's on the box set that we *don't* already have -- to talk about, rather than at any time in the last eighteen months?

We can't have a simple fucking discussion about the *sixty tracks of unreleased stuff* we're getting because a bunch of whining babies have suddenly woken up to the fact that they're living in the real world rather than magicland where you get everything you ever wanted the second you want it with no downside.

Start talking about it then and stop 'whining like a baby'. 

[Mahalo]

whining babies have suddenly woken up to the fact that they're living in the real world rather than magicland where you get everything you ever wanted the second you want it with no downside.

(crying) Waaaaahhh, waahhhhhh- Smiley Smile Message Board is the real world? waaaah, waaahhh

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

Add to that the fact that so few released live tracks are *really* live and untinkered with after the concert in post-production... the whole concept of 'live recordings' just often seems a bit too daft, really. Go see a live band if you want to hear live music! But I've always preferred listening to albums through headphones to watching bands live anyway... so that's probably just me.

I'm probably as excited to hear the live versions of Friends and Little Bird as I am to hear the fully unreleased songs. So cool that they did those...

[Matt Bielewicz]

I haven't really engaged with the whole 'we should be grateful to Capitol' / 'no we shouldn't, they're ripping us off' debate here, as I'm not very interested in it. I don't really think about Capitol when I buy Beach Boys stuff; they're just the conduit it comes through. I'm neither grateful to them nor annoyed.

I see the release, I decide whether I want the release, I buy the release. Or I don't.

Like Andrew says; can we talk about the tracks again now?

Mr Moustache - yeah, I wanna hear the live tracks you mentioned too. I know that seems to contradict what I said just now, but it doesn't really - some live versions are fascinating because they're different, as I said, and maybe these will be like that. It's just if the live versions turn out to be slightly less well-executed versions of the studio arrangements with the odd additional whoop, vocal ad-lib and a bit of crowd noise that I lose interest fast and never play them again.

Until I know which type the live Friends and Little Bird tracks are, I remain interested to hear them...

[BergenWhitesMoustache]

I completely disagree that Beach Boys fans are demanding and ungrateful.

IGNORE THE TROLL

[EgoHanger1966]

Has it been mentioned yet that "Goin' To The Beach" has new overdubs? It must have been what Mike was @ Ocean way for.

"...Mike Love's recently completed "Goin' To The Beach..."

http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=1983659

[AndrewHickey]

Add to that the fact that so few released live tracks are *really* live and untinkered with after the concert in post-production... the whole concept of 'live recordings' just often seems a bit too daft, really. Go see a live band if you want to hear live music! But I've always preferred listening to albums through headphones to watching bands live anyway... so that's probably just me.

I'm probably as excited to hear the live versions of Friends and Little Bird as I am to hear the fully unreleased songs. So cool that they did those...

I can imagine Friends working very well live -- certainly it did when Brian's band did it in 2002, and the performances of it by California Saga last year show that it can work without the instrumentation.

Little Bird, on the other hand, I have great difficulty imagining in a live version without the trumpet part -- unless this was one of the shows when they used a horn section...

[AndrewHickey]

Has it been mentioned yet that "Goin' To The Beach" has new overdubs? It must have been what Mike was @ Ocean way for.

"...Mike Love's recently completed "Goin' To The Beach..."

http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=1983659

Very interesting... that wasn't in the press release, and nor was the quote from Al...
But then again, this is also the site that called it a 'deep cut box set'...

[Freddie French-Pounce]

Well AGD , that means he was 41.125 % correct.

I love the smell of Maths in the morning 

Get back behind the drums... 

Got a problem with Drummers?

[Nicko1234]

I can imagine Friends working very well live -- certainly it did when Brian's band did it in 2002, and the performances of it by California Saga last year show that it can work without the instrumentation.

Little Bird, on the other hand, I have great difficulty imagining in a live version without the trumpet part -- unless this was one of the shows when they used a horn section...

These two live songs should certainly be interesting. Good choices because they have been performed so infrequently over the years.

In 1972 was it still always Al singing Help Me Rhonda?

I Can Hear Music from 1975 is a curious and seemingly slightly random choice.

[AndrewHickey]

In 1972 was it still always Al singing Help Me Rhonda?

No -- in fact the 1972 shows I have all have Carl on lead. I don't know if Dennis did it at all in 72...

I Can Hear Music from 1975 is a curious and seemingly slightly random choice.

I suspect it's just chosen because, from the shows I've heard, Carl was in particularly good voice that year, so I imagine it'll have an especially good lead vocal.

[Les P]

Has it been mentioned yet that "Goin' To The Beach" has new overdubs? It must have been what Mike was @ Ocean way for.

"...Mike Love's recently completed "Goin' To The Beach..."

http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=1983659

Many thanks for this!  I had hoped that some vintage unfinished tracks would be completed for the box (my fantasy was a finished "Can't Wait Too Long").   I wonder if there are others similarly completed within the last year?

[Cabinessenceking]

There are others - "East Meets West", "Happy Endings", "Lady Liberty", "Crocodile Rock", "Wipeout", "Still Cruisin", "Somewhere Near Japan", "Problem Child", "Hot Fun In The Summertime", and an argument could even be made for "The Beach Boys' Medley", which was a Top 15 hit. Again, I don't think the sales or musical merit (which is subjective) should dictate their historical significance. Each one of them had a purpose, a story behind them - THEY WERE LEGITIMATE RELEASES BY THE BEACH BOYS! To me, the perfect place to house all of these records would be a boxed set. 

The problem is that many of the singles that the band released after a certain point weren't very good. I do think that they had to make a decision based on perceived quality as well as whether things were released as singles or whatever.

Another problem is that record companies aren't museums, and they don't care about what is "deserved."  They're businesses that are motivated by making money.  It just isn't realistic to think otherwise.

If you think that certain recordings should be preserved for all to hear, you should try petitioning the Nationl Recording Registry or something similar.

put that museum stuff online and perhaps someone might buy a ticket, as opposed to none.

[Nicko1234]

No -- in fact the 1972 shows I have all have Carl on lead. I don't know if Dennis did it at all in 72...

Ah, in that case another sensible choice. Kudos to Mark Linett and Alan Boyd for their choices of the live stuff. I guess the band members didn't do as much vetoing with the live tracks.