MiC up for order on Amazon, August release

[Mike's Beard]

Well it's not my perfect tracklist. I noticed hardly any early day rarities (they are out there as a visit to youtube can confirm). Also what's the deal with covering the 80's in about 5 songs?, collect those ragtag 80's singles already!
Still this does look to be a great box to add to the collection overall. Clean version of many songs I've only ever owned on crappy bootlegs. My wallet practically sprang open at the sight of this thread.

P.S.
Has anyone told Phil yet?

[Mendota Heights]

UNLESS YOU'RE AN AUDIOPHILE (which I'm not), only about 20% of the box set would seem to be truly new.

Again, this is not the case. Thirty-four percent of it is stuff that has never been legally released. And no, I'm not talking about stereo remixes (they *have* been released before), but about unreleased songs, live performances, and significantly different alternate versions.

How do you know they are significantly different?

[JohnMill]

OK, I don't understand why so many smiley smilers taken it for granted that "of course" they have to include all the hits. WHY? WHY? WHY? #1) They released the Smile Sessions which had ZERO hits on it (basically) and they deemed that worthy enough to sell on its own. #2) I know it's not a totally fair comparison, but the Beatles Anthology 1 broke sales records and it didn't have a single previously released track on it. Same for anthology 2 and 3 although they didn't sell AS well....

With all due respect were you around when The Beatles' "Anthology 1" came out?  Because I was and it was literally one of the most ill received projects I've ever witnessed in my life from a major rock band.  The reason being despite the fact that The Beatles promoted "Anthology 1" as a rarities album, most of the general public that bought it assumed that it was going to be a traditional greatest hits type compilation and were in for a rude surprise when the set contained outtakes, demos and live performances and none of the CV they were hoping for.  Perhaps they assumed that since it was also marketed as the soundtrack to the "The Beatles: Anthology Television Special" that it would be a greatest hits type package I don't know.  But it wasn't well received at all by the general public which was indicated by the dip in sales for the other two installments in the series.

It wasn't that well received on the collector's market either...

In regards to TSS, that box set sold on the myth and legend of "SMiLE" alone and to a very specific market (US!) that went out in droves the day it came out to buy it like they had just been allowed access inside the pearly gates.  Did it sell well?  Someone get me the figures and we can work that out but remember TSS also was released in three formats and I'd bet you a doughnut that the 2CD format outsold both the vinyl and box set format as well.  So while I understand your frustrations about the inclusion of the hits on MIC, your logic doesn't necessarily wash when placed alongside the facts.

[Mike's Beard]

Sorry guys. This is a disappointment. It's throwing us fans a bone, which I appreciate, but how could I possibly justify spending $130 to my wife when in reality I already have 80% of these recordings, not just once, but in many cases many times over. She would laugh in my face!!

Simple. Don't tell her.

[AndrewHickey]

It's a career spanning board set. Always advertised as such. Not a rarities collection.

It was repeatedly called a "deep cuts box."  

http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=1931764

I guess everybody hear was wrong to speculate on the inclusion of rarities.  

Let down of let downs.

EVERYBODY who knew anything at all about this -- and even those who can just read a press release and understand it -- said the same thing: that there would be about two CDs' worth of previously unreleased stuff, and that the box set as a whole would be an updated and reworked version of the Good Vibrations box. That's *exactly* what we've got.

The only people who referred to it as a 'deep cuts box' were the same people who kept insisting that there would be a new Beach Boys album and tour this year, or that there would be a DVD release of a full show from last year's tour -- the people who can't understand the difference between "I want this to happen" and "this will happen".

[Matt Bielewicz]

This... will do nicely. I think pretty much anything I ever wanted is on this list. Sure, there's stuff missing, but it's stuff I've heard and don't think is up to much anyway. At a stretch, I might have liked a pristine copy of the 3/4 Big Sur, but I have a not-quite pristine version which will suffice... and I may be in a minority in that I prefer the Holland version anyway!

What are people really missing, here? More Dennis tracks... well, OK. Carry Me Home. But it is a bit of a dirge... It's A New Day, California Slide... yeah, OK. They're decent enough tracks, not universe-changing: and if you know what they are, you will have ways and means of acquiring them.

Late 70s/early 80s Brian and Dennis stuff: Stevie and Lines and It's Trying To Say, stuff like that. Adult Child material. Some of it is made up of great songs (I love It's Trying To Say... that might be my favourite unreleased track from this period, now...), but the versions in the vault that we have on boot are pretty ropey renditions: rougher even than much of Love You or 15 Big Ones. With a cool head on, I can see why the Boys aren't keen on having that stuff out there in their name. Again, if you know what Stevie or Adult Child are, then you will also know of a way to get the versions that do exist.

Then there are the fantasy things we all thought we *might* get. A finished 1967 Side 1 of SMiLE. Part 2 of Surf's Up. Look with vocals (OK, obviously, these would have been on the SMiLE Sessions if they did exist). More acetate mixes of Heroes and Villains, or sections thereof, discovered SINCE TSS. Heck, even Beatrice From Baltimore or the 'Hypnotise me, Van Dyke' Sail On Sailor demo. But these things clearly don't exist, don't exist *any more*, or if they do, I guess they're not accessible to the hard-working guys assembling this collection. I can live with that. Some things are gone for good or never were in the first place. We just have to live with it.

And then, of course, there might be stuff still to come. Who knows, maybe there will still be some sort of Wild Honey release/remaster, even if not all of the tracks on it end up being in stereo. That might explain the omission of Here Comes The Night in stereo. I guess we'll see. I am definitely not going to be up in arms about the fact that A Thing Or Two is not available in stereo. Sure, I really wish a stereo mix of Aren't You Glad was a possibility, but if the tapes really aren't there, and it can't be made, then it can't be made. Time to move on...

So that deals with what I might consider to be omissions. What about the positives? There's lots of as-yet unheard new stuff! I particularly look forward to what the track of Can't Wait Too Long sounds like. Course, it may be a previously released version, but let's see.

I'm up for this, my order's in, it's happening! Overall, colour me happy.

What are you really missing? To me, the craziest expression of regret I've seen so far concerns 'Walkin'. It's unfinished! The lead vocalist hated it so much he couldn't even be bothered to finish a vocal take... and you're cheesed that THAT didn't make it? Who really wants an unfinished scrap like that?

Besides which, if you want an finished version of that song... cue up Morning Beat from TLOS!!!  

MattB

[Nicko1234]

It's absolutely freakin' ridiculous how many times these songs have come out, IN THE PAST DECADE ALONE. I'm seriously thinking about not buying it. $130? Just like the Smile Sessions which contained all new material, they should have released a box set of unreleased recordings exclusively/plus the Past Masters style compilation of odds and ends. THAT would have been great.

Sorry guys. This is a disappointment. It's throwing us fans a bone, which I appreciate, but how could I possibly justify spending $130 to my wife when in reality I already have 80% of these recordings, not just once, but in many cases many times over. She would laugh in my face!!

I agree that $130 is a ridiculous amount of money for a 6 disc set if it remains that price.

[AndrewHickey]

UNLESS YOU'RE AN AUDIOPHILE (which I'm not), only about 20% of the box set would seem to be truly new.

Again, this is not the case. Thirty-four percent of it is stuff that has never been legally released. And no, I'm not talking about stereo remixes (they *have* been released before), but about unreleased songs, live performances, and significantly different alternate versions.

How do you know they are significantly different?

From reading the tracklist. Unless "A Cappella Mix", "Alternate Lead Vocal" and "Extra Verse" don't count as a significant difference to you...

[JohnMill]

This... will do nicely. I think pretty much anything I ever wanted is on this list. Sure, there's stuff missing, but it's stuff I've heard and don't think is up to much anyway. At a stretch, I might have liked a pristine copy of the 3/4 Big Sur, but I have a not-quite pristine version which will suffice... and I may be in a minority in that I prefer the Holland version anyway!

What are people really missing, here? More Dennis tracks... well, OK. Carry Me Home. But it is a bit of a dirge... It's A New Day, California Slide... yeah, OK. They're decent enough tracks, not universe-changing: and if you know what they are, you will have ways and means of acquiring them.

Late 70s/early 80s Brian and Dennis stuff: Stevie and Lines and It's Trying To Say, stuff like that. Adult Child material. Some of it is made up of great songs (I love It's Trying To Say... that might be my favourite unreleased track from this period, now...), but the versions in the vault that we have on boot are pretty ropey renditions: rougher even than much of Love You or 15 Big Ones. With a cool head on, I can see why the Boys aren't keen on having that stuff out there in their name. Again, if you know what Stevie or Adult Child are, then you will also know of a way to get the versions that do exist.

Then there are the fantasy things we all thought we *might* get. A finished 1967 Side 1 of SMiLE. Part 2 of Surf's Up. Look with vocals (OK, obviously, these would have been on the SMiLE Sessions if they did exist). More acetate mixes of Heroes and Villains, or sections thereof, discovered SINCE TSS. Heck, even Beatrice From Baltimore or the 'Hypnotise me, Van Dyke' Sail On Sailor demo. But these things clearly don't exist, don't exist *any more*, or if they do, I guess they're not accessible to the hard-working guys assembling this collection. I can live with that. Some things are gone for good or never were in the first place. We just have to live with it.

And then, of course, there might be stuff still to come. Who knows, maybe there will still be some sort of Wild Honey release/remaster, even if not all of the tracks on it end up being in stereo. That might explain the omission of Here Comes The Night in stereo. I guess we'll see. I am definitely not going to be up in arms about the fact that A Thing Or Two is not available in stereo. Sure, I really wish a stereo mix of Aren't You Glad was a possibility, but if the tapes really aren't there, and it can't be made, then it can't be made. Time to move on...

So that deals with what I might consider to be omissions. What about the positives? There's lots of as-yet unheard new stuff! I particularly look forward to what the track of Can't Wait Too Long sounds like. Course, it may be a previously released version, but let's see.

I'm up for this, my order's in, it's happening! Overall, colour me happy.

What are you really missing? To me, the craziest expression of regret I've seen so far concerns 'Walkin'. It's unfinished! The lead vocalist hated it so much he couldn't even be bothered to finish a vocal take... and you're cheesed that THAT didn't make it? Who really wants an unfinished scrap like that?

Besides which, if you want an finished version of that song... cue up Morning Beat from TLOS!!!  

MattB

^THIS.  I'm not usually a member of the "be happy with what they are giving you and don't gripe" clan but I can't see how anyone is unhappy with this set.  If you are a novice with no collector's recordings (ahem!) to your name, you should be overjoyed by this set as it's a nice overview of the band's work.  If you are a collector on the other hand you likely have all the stuff that is missing (ahem!) from this box set anyhow.  So all there is really to gripe about from that perspective is a potential sound quality upgrade you are missing out on and if you want to gripe about that then I guess that is your right and I'm not going to challenge you on it.  

[TimmyC]

OK, I don't understand why so many smiley smilers taken it for granted that "of course" they have to include all the hits. WHY? WHY? WHY? #1) They released the Smile Sessions which had ZERO hits on it (basically) and they deemed that worthy enough to sell on its own. #2) I know it's not a totally fair comparison, but the Beatles Anthology 1 broke sales records and it didn't have a single previously released track on it. Same for anthology 2 and 3 although they didn't sell AS well....

With all due respect were you around when The Beatles' "Anthology 1" came out?  Because I was and it was literally one of the most ill received projects I've ever witnessed in my life from a major rock band.  The reason being despite the fact that The Beatles promoted "Anthology 1" as a rarities album, most of the general public that bought it assumed that it was going to be a traditional greatest hits type compilation and were in for a rude surprise when the set contained outtakes, demos and live performances and none of the CV they were hoping for.  Perhaps they assumed that since it was also marketed as the soundtrack to the "The Beatles: Anthology Television Special" that it would be a greatest hits type package I don't know.  But it wasn't well received at all by the general public which was indicated by the dip in sales for the other two installments in the series.

It wasn't that well received on the collector's market either...

In regards to TSS, that box set sold on the myth and legend of "SMiLE" alone and to a very specific market (US!) that went out in droves the day it came out to buy it like they had just been allowed access inside the pearly gates.  Did it sell well?  Someone get me the figures and we can work that out but remember TSS also was released in three formats and I'd bet you a doughnut that the 2CD format outsold both the vinyl and box set format as well.  So while I understand your frustrations about the inclusion of the hits on MIC, your logic doesn't necessarily wash when placed alongside the facts.

OK, I seriously have to get back to work(!!) but YES, I was most definitely around when Anthology 1 was released. For the record, I 100% agree that there was a serious misconception as to what Anthology 1 was and that's why it DID break sales records at the time, even though it was considered a disappointment in retrospect. Even though 2 and 3 sold far less, they still sold very well. My point was just that the Beatles released essentially a 6 disc box set without a single prior release included. i don't see why the Beach Boys couldn't do the same (including the rarities as well). I can't believe that it wouldn't sell so significantly less than what's going to be released. I mean I know that I personally can't justify 130 and i'm a super fan. And WHAT CASUAL FAN IS GOING TO BUY THIS??? They can spend 1/6th of that amount, get 50 Big Ones and have everything they need. So they've cornered out the casual fans and at least a good portion of the super fans. HOW DOES THIS BOX SET MAKE ANY FREAKIN' SENSE?? Answer: it doesn't.

Sorry JohnMill! You and I are simpatico on other matters. But not this one!!

[Mendota Heights]

Why no Beginning of the End or Thank Him? They are among my favorite BB tracks.

Especially Thank Him!

[TimmyC]

Sorry guys. This is a disappointment. It's throwing us fans a bone, which I appreciate, but how could I possibly justify spending $130 to my wife when in reality I already have 80% of these recordings, not just once, but in many cases many times over. She would laugh in my face!!

Simple. Don't tell her.

hahahahaha!! that's excellent advice. 

[Nicko1234]

^THIS.  I'm not usually a member of the "be happy with what they are giving you and don't gripe" clan but I can't see how anyone is unhappy with this set.  If you are a novice with no collector's recordings (ahem!) to your name, you should be overjoyed by this set as it's a nice overview of the band's work.  If you are a collector on the other hand you likely have all the stuff that is missing (ahem!) from this box set anyhow.  So all there is really to gripe about from that perspective is a potential sound quality upgrade you are missing out on and if you want to grip about that then I guess that is your right and I'm not going to challenge you on it.  

I would say there is one other big thing (which might be just me). I think the GV box set had much better sequencing. Personally when I bought that CD I wanted to listen to all 5 discs pretty damn quickly. Obviously Smile on disc 2 but also the nice mixture of rarities and classic songs on discs 1, 3 and 4. Plus the obscurities on disc 5.

With this collection I don't really see why anyone would get too excited about listening to disc 1. Obviously there is plenty of fine music there but we own it already. Same with disc 2 apart from one early version and a radio spot. Disc 6 should be great but for $130 it had better be.  

[Dudd]

Let the bitching commence!

WHERE IS MY ADULT CHILD MATERIAL??!?

Ooh, but WIBNTLA. Kay, I'm in

[Matt Bielewicz]

And the price? Roughly 14 quid a disc, and that's the starting price, which will inevitably come down as the months go by. How's that a major problem? It's a new release, CDs cost that much. If it was 25 quid a disc, I could understand the moans.

I picked up the GV box in 1996, three years after release for under 30 quid. This will happen in time, no matter what they say about the new box being a limited edition...!

[TimeToGetAlone]

Fantastic news!  Not gonna listen to a word of these new tracks until it comes out.

As a side note, I'm very intrigued as to why All I Wanna Do got shunned from a compilation yet again.  I mean, it's one of my favourite productions of their entire catalogue and to my knowledge has never made it on anything other than Sunflower.

[pixletwin]

As I said soooo many months ago: As long as it includes the 74 demo of California Feelin and WIBNTLA, I am super-duper happy. It could have consisted of every outtake from Summer in Paradise and I would be ok so long as I got those two songs.

I am well happy with this set.  

But yeah, lack of Adult Child material is a bit of a let down. But I'm okay with that.

[guitarfool2002]

Has anyone tallied up the number of times Kokomo has been officially released?   

[JohnMill]

OK, I don't understand why so many smiley smilers taken it for granted that "of course" they have to include all the hits. WHY? WHY? WHY? #1) They released the Smile Sessions which had ZERO hits on it (basically) and they deemed that worthy enough to sell on its own. #2) I know it's not a totally fair comparison, but the Beatles Anthology 1 broke sales records and it didn't have a single previously released track on it. Same for anthology 2 and 3 although they didn't sell AS well....

With all due respect were you around when The Beatles' "Anthology 1" came out?  Because I was and it was literally one of the most ill received projects I've ever witnessed in my life from a major rock band.  The reason being despite the fact that The Beatles promoted "Anthology 1" as a rarities album, most of the general public that bought it assumed that it was going to be a traditional greatest hits type compilation and were in for a rude surprise when the set contained outtakes, demos and live performances and none of the CV they were hoping for.  Perhaps they assumed that since it was also marketed as the soundtrack to the "The Beatles: Anthology Television Special" that it would be a greatest hits type package I don't know.  But it wasn't well received at all by the general public which was indicated by the dip in sales for the other two installments in the series.

It wasn't that well received on the collector's market either...

In regards to TSS, that box set sold on the myth and legend of "SMiLE" alone and to a very specific market (US!) that went out in droves the day it came out to buy it like they had just been allowed access inside the pearly gates.  Did it sell well?  Someone get me the figures and we can work that out but remember TSS also was released in three formats and I'd bet you a doughnut that the 2CD format outsold both the vinyl and box set format as well.  So while I understand your frustrations about the inclusion of the hits on MIC, your logic doesn't necessarily wash when placed alongside the facts.

OK, I seriously have to get back to work(!!) but YES, I was most definitely around when Anthology 1 was released. For the record, I 100% agree that there was a serious misconception as to what Anthology 1 was and that's why it DID break sales records at the time, even though it was considered a disappointment in retrospect. Even though 2 and 3 sold far less, they still sold very well. My point was just that the Beatles released essentially a 6 disc box set without a single prior release included. i don't see why the Beach Boys couldn't do the same (including the rarities as well). I can't believe that it wouldn't sell so significantly less than what's going to be released. I mean I know that I personally can't justify 130 and i'm a super fan. And WHAT CASUAL FAN IS GOING TO BUY THIS??? They can spend 1/6th of that amount, get 50 Big Ones and have everything they need. So they've cornered out the casual fans and at least a good portion of the super fans. HOW DOES THIS BOX SET MAKE ANY FREAKIN' SENSE?? Answer: it doesn't.

Sorry JohnMill! You and I are simpatico on other matters. But not this one!!

I mentioned this up the chain but "The Beach Boys ARE NOT The Beatles".  I know it's heresy to say that around these parts (at least for some people) but The Beatles are part of a select group of musicians or bands that could release box sets devoted to each individual album in their catalog and it would sell (albeit not very well).  I mentioned earlier that at least in my opinion Beatles, Springsteen, Dylan and The Dead are bands with a fanbase that would financially support such releases as an expansive "rarities box set" where it would be feasible for both the band and their record company to compile something of that magnitude a put it out.  In fact I believe all four acts I mentioned have box sets of that nature on shelves right now.

The Beach Boys just aren't in that class.  They appeal to a more general fanbase that would opt to purchase a "Greatest Hits" package, "Pet Sounds" and perhaps "SMiLE" and be done with it.  They are a hits orientated band period.  Do they have great material outside of the hits?  Of course they do.  Who is aware of that fact?  Those lucky enough to actually dig deep enough past the hits and discover the lesser known wonders in the catalog.  But you need to include the hits to make any major release by The Beach Boys marketable to the general public.  They just don't have the type of profile where they can release a 6-CD set of outtakes, demos and live recordings on the public and expect it to turn in major numbers.  As much as I would love to see a release like that happen, it just isn't in the cards and likely never will be.

[AndrewHickey]

OK, I don't understand why so many smiley smilers taken it for granted that "of course" they have to include all the hits. WHY? WHY? WHY?

Because it is, and always was, a career-spanning box set, a replacement for the Good Vibrations box. The same kind of collection, in other words, as the Monkees' Music Box, Randy Newman's Guilty, Ray Charles' Genius And Soul, Phil Spector's Back To Mono, and many, many more along the same lines.

All those box sets have the same kind of audience -- people who want an "instant record collection" of the artist in question, with all the essential music but none of the filler tracks, and want a proper overview of their career, not just a greatest hits collection.

That's what this was put together as, that's the audience it's aimed at, and that audience *do* want to have Fun Fun Fun and California Girls on there as well.

There clearly *is* also a market for Beach Boys rarities releases -- if every Monkees album can be reissued as 3 CD box sets, and if you can get a 5-CD Captain Beefheart rarities set, then it makes sense that there should be similar releases for the Beach Boys. But that's not what this box set is, and *nobody involved with it, or who knew anything about it, ever claimed it was anything other than what it is*.

[Mendota Heights]

Has anyone tallied up the number of times Kokomo has been officially released?   

Nonono.

OK, bad pun.

[guitarfool2002]

Has anyone tallied up the number of times Kokomo has been officially released?   

Nonono.

OK, bad pun.

Is there a way to pay only $129.75 (US) if we could buy this set minus Kokomo?

[Mike's Beard]

I've just noticed Good Time is listed in the Sunflower era not Love You. I'll be glad to get a decent sounding version of the original mix.

[JohnMill]

^THIS.  I'm not usually a member of the "be happy with what they are giving you and don't gripe" clan but I can't see how anyone is unhappy with this set.  If you are a novice with no collector's recordings (ahem!) to your name, you should be overjoyed by this set as it's a nice overview of the band's work.  If you are a collector on the other hand you likely have all the stuff that is missing (ahem!) from this box set anyhow.  So all there is really to gripe about from that perspective is a potential sound quality upgrade you are missing out on and if you want to grip about that then I guess that is your right and I'm not going to challenge you on it.  

I would say there is one other big thing (which might be just me). I think the GV box set had much better sequencing. Personally when I bought that CD I wanted to listen to all 5 discs pretty damn quickly. Obviously Smile on disc 2 but also the nice mixture of rarities and classic songs on discs 1, 3 and 4. Plus the obscurities on disc 5.

With this collection I don't really see why anyone would get too excited about listening to disc 1. Obviously there is plenty of fine music there but we own it already. Same with disc 2 apart from one early version and a radio spot. Disc 6 should be great but for $130 it had better be.  

Horses for courses I suppose.  There is going to be a section of the buying public for this box set that is probably going to find disc 1 the most enjoyable disc in the entire box because it contains all of the early sixties hits.  While I do believe that the general public is far more likely to buy one of the myriad of Beach Boys' greatest hits compilations on shelves right now, there is the consumer out there that as Beach Boys fan is going to want to pick up as much Beach Boys music as they possibly can within the scope of one package.  For them MIC is going to be their "greatest hits experience".  They are going to have all their favorite hits alongside a lot of stuff that will be completely unfamiliar to them.

In fact an argument can be made that it is this particular section of the buying public that will get the most enjoyment out of MIC as they will be able to enjoy the box set as a whole rather than "cherry pickin'" which I what I'm assuming most of us are going to do as soon as we get the box set into our hot little hands.  Oh man now I'm kind of envious! Maybe it's time for a Beach Boys boycott for a few months so everything sounds fresh to me again come the end of August.  

[TimmyC]

OK, I don't understand why so many smiley smilers taken it for granted that "of course" they have to include all the hits. WHY? WHY? WHY?

Because it is, and always was, a career-spanning box set, a replacement for the Good Vibrations box. The same kind of collection, in other words, as the Monkees' Music Box, Randy Newman's Guilty, Ray Charles' Genius And Soul, Phil Spector's Back To Mono, and many, many more along the same lines.

All those box sets have the same kind of audience -- people who want an "instant record collection" of the artist in question, with all the essential music but none of the filler tracks, and want a proper overview of their career, not just a greatest hits collection.

That's what this was put together as, that's the audience it's aimed at, and that audience *do* want to have Fun Fun Fun and California Girls on there as well.

There clearly *is* also a market for Beach Boys rarities releases -- if every Monkees album can be reissued as 3 CD box sets, and if you can get a 5-CD Captain Beefheart rarities set, then it makes sense that there should be similar releases for the Beach Boys. But that's not what this box set is, and *nobody involved with it, or who knew anything about it, ever claimed it was anything other than what it is*.

hahaha - Captain Beefheart has a 5 CD rarities set?!?! WOW. I hear you that this box set was never billed as being that. Fair enough. I'll move on.... to demanding a Beach Boys rarities box set!!!!!! By the way, I think the examples you mention completely undermine the claims by others that Capitol HAD to include the hits. I think the fairest defense of the box set is the point you've made several times today that this is pretty much what they SAID it was going to be all along. Fine.... now bring on the rarities box set please!!!!