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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2013, 12:50:28 PM »

I knew it was a matter of time before someone brought up Somalia.

when the shoe fits.....

If I had a dollar for every time someone tossed the word "liberal" around....

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Mahalo
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« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2013, 04:30:19 PM »

Found this article on Michael Savages website... Pinder and RnR might like it...err, not like the news, but know that there are people reporting it...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/house-approves-derivatives-deregulation_n_3429678.html

I'm not a huff po kinda guy though...but news is news
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2013, 04:39:26 PM »

Found this article on Michael Savages website... Pinder and RnR might like it...err, not like the news, but know that there are people reporting it...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/house-approves-derivatives-deregulation_n_3429678.html

I'm not a huff po kinda guy though...but news is news

Thanks Mahalo!

Interesting quote: Rep. Michael Capuano (D-Mass.) said: "This bill is not about American jobs. This bill is all about foreign swaps. If they're going to create jobs, they're going to be in foreign countries.
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Mahalo
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« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2013, 04:48:07 PM »

No idea if it passes senate- seems like it may... and to be honest, this stuff is a bit too complicated for me to totally give the energy to want to understand... at least I can admit that, unlike way too many Americans.
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2013, 05:01:24 PM »

No idea if it passes senate- seems like it may... and to be honest, this stuff is a bit too complicated for me to totally give the energy to want to understand... at least I can admit that, unlike way too many Americans.

I couldn't agree more... This is part of why I rail so hard against the two party system and throwing around words like "liberals" "conservatives" .... Of course I'm guilty of it myself, but I think these things ARE hard to understand and we make it easier on ourselves to be OK with not completely understanding or comprehending them because we simply decide what "side" we're on, left or right, and then allow that distinction to shorthand our own thought process...
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Mahalo
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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2013, 05:40:54 PM »

After the last election, I changed my party to conservative and left the Republican party for a whole host of reasons....now let me shortly explain to you what I mean by calling myself a conservative...

I try to be conservative with my money- see my zillion posts about the MIC box set

I try to be conservative with my garbage/waste- with my energy use, with my shopping choices, which businesses I like to support (local, organic)

These are things that I think many people agree with, no matter what political party...

Now, when it comes to "conservative" politics- I feel strongly about states rights vs. Federal law- I know that's vague, and I WILL NOT blindly vote for a politician just because there is a "C" or and "R" next to their name... I've done that before, played the role, and have learned...not that it really matters on a national level becuz I'm a New Yorka- one of the blue-ist states... but just for a short post...

I am not pro gay marriage, but more or less indifferent to it...however I have deep concerns about sexual morality in many ways, especially with what is taught in schools with taxpayer money, gay or not.

I believe Christianity has it's virtues to teach people but unfortunately it is now seen as taboo and wrong/misguided, and often under attack. It's really too bad, because while I am a Christian I am wise enough to know that the church has brought upon itself much of it's criticisms...but not all.

Most of all I am 110% against national heath care- this is a states rights issue AFAIC. If NY decided to pull a Romneycare, I would be against it BUT CONSTITUTIONALLY I could not argue against it. I will not defend insurance comapanies.

I could go through any number of issues... and these are just my opinions. I do not feel a need to fight. So when I see things through a "conservative" lens, I see things as less power granted to an over-reaching federal gov't and more personal responsibilty...especially with regards to the states. Conservatism does not mean, to me, downright de-regulation to allow big money rule D.C. and it's many many offshoots. How do we stop that? Don't know.

It iis unfortunate how IMO the label is hijacked by hypocrites and liars. However, it is nothing more than an adjective at best, a label at worst... and again these are my opinions.

Now I should get back to my art...if I don't respond right away it is not to be evasive but know I am trying to make some cool stuff.... I've actually been making highly detailed drawings of The Four Elemnts since August of 2007- a rough draft and final copy of each element. I've done them for The Water and The Earth, and now I am working on the Rough Draft of The Air. I have no pictures to show yet... I will reveal them all at once when I'm done. It is conceived as one piece... an "Airy" piece of BB music? The BV's to Breakaway found on Harmony Friends Boot. It is good stuff.

It is a pleasure to discuss these matters without negativity. I know I am guilty of it, but we live and we learn.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 05:42:58 PM by Mahalo » Logged
Bean Bag
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« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2013, 10:03:29 AM »

MOST people's opinions on MOST issues are "conservative."  Americans, by definition, are.  This is what drives me nuts.  We're not big government.  We like to be left alone.  To do what we want to do -- and we defend each other's right to do it.  We like choices/competition and a good, fair deal.  We like free markets and love common sense.  There's 3 grocery stores in my small town... not one, drab "government food exchange" 25 miles away.  Choice.  Freedom.  Free markets.

Most people aren't stupid by default.  Quiz your friends.  Would you rather pay $3 for a gallon of milk or $6?  Change milk to "gasoline" -- and a few might opt for $6, but still, not most.  Stupidity has to be "taught."  Politics.

It's in our blood as Americans to be right -- to be above politics -- and to want justice and to right wrongs.  We're a moral country.  Right/wrong, good/evil and all that.  We have no DNA in royalty and no business in being elitist snobs -- that's not who we are.  Despite what some may tell you -- we're not elitists.  That's their path, not America's.
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2013, 12:50:31 PM »

MOST people's opinions on MOST issues are "conservative."  Americans, by definition, are.  This is what drives me nuts.  We're not big government.  We like to be left alone.  To do what we want to do -- and we defend each other's right to do it.  We like choices/competition and a good, fair deal.  We like free markets and love common sense.  There's 3 grocery stores in my small town... not one, drab "government food exchange" 25 miles away.  Choice.  Freedom.  Free markets.

Most people aren't stupid by default.  Quiz your friends.  Would you rather pay $3 for a gallon of milk or $6?  Change milk to "gasoline" -- and a few might opt for $6, but still, not most.  Stupidity has to be "taught."  Politics.

It's in our blood as Americans to be right -- to be above politics -- and to want justice and to right wrongs.  We're a moral country.  Right/wrong, good/evil and all that.  We have no DNA in royalty and no business in being elitist snobs -- that's not who we are.  Despite what some may tell you -- we're not elitists.  That's their path, not America's.

Most of us are neither conservative nor liberal, or rather, we are a combination of both... Wanting to be left alone and to respect others rights to be left alone is more liberal, as in respecting the liberty of others. Though, we recognize that in order for this to work, we must be conservative in other areas... Nor does everyone want to be "left alone" .... Many want community. We should be free to indulge in both... and It's not rocket science, but it becomes some new form of dumbed down math when you are only able to process life through the prism of "am I left or right" .... Though, I have quizzed my friends about such things, and most would happily pay $6 for a gallon of milk at Old Farmer John's family market rather than $3 at WalMart, and they would also like to know that a government food exchange is down round the corner over there for those who are bad off... We are not stupid and cruel people by nature, and most humans do not look at the world as just one big "market" .... That's coerced thinking: an acceptance of Capitalism. A respect for Capitalism maybe, but still not normal human thought. Though, I don't judge you for that. A free society should be both a market and an exchange in varying forms. Think about it......

Bean, you are spot on with the point "  We have no DNA in royalty and no business in being elitist snobs -- that's not who we are.  Despite what some may tell you -- we're not elitists."
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 01:24:14 PM by Pinder Goes To Kokomo » Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2013, 03:18:26 PM »

I quite seriously take issue with a lot of people calling themselves "conservative" on this board. Here, it becomes quite crucial to understand what the terms mean. Note that traditionally, conservatism generally meant being very critical of capitalism and market-oriented societies. This tradition was taken up by the early Republican party and figures like Lincoln who understood capitalism as a form of wage slavery. This was largely because traditional conservatives valued freedom above all else and correctly understood capitalism as exploitative, as a system that created dependency on power, and as a system that largely diminished tradition in favour of commodification. Thinkers such as John Crowe Ransom, Allen Tate, Frank Lawrence Owsley, Lyle H. Lanier, Andrew Nelson Lytle, and Donald Davidson are prime examples of key figures behind the conservative movement, and all of them were deeply critical of capitalism.

The term was hijacked by statists during the Cold War and at that point the term lost whatever meaning it had held. Now the term is frequently used in order to evoke reducing the role of government for the majority of population whilst enlarging it significantly for the ruling class. Take the poster above, Mahalo. On another thread, Mahalo both self-represented as a conservative while at the same time praised Reagan's Star Wars program which was openly acknowledged by the framers as a public subsidy for private corporations to better compete with Japan for tech products. That's essentially the conservative platform - indoctrinate people to the extent that they abhor the things that will help them, and support the things that will hurt them. This is why Reagan, a huge statist reactionary who presided over an enormous welfare state for the wealthy, is hailed by conservatives today.

Take the furor over Obama. There's a lot of bad things to say about Obama, of course but the fact that people talk about being afraid about Obama's Big Government when in reality he has slowed government spending down more than any president since Eisenhower and has reduced the deficit is a real achievement for the propaganda team that has succeeded in largely making the public delusional. So why DO people fear Obama's government? Well, largely, because of the fear that he might change the system where the welfare state is redirected towards the population from the monied class who own the country. Of course, this is ludicrous. Obama is as pro-Big Business as any other President but there is a fear amongst some in the business community that Obama COULD help the people rather than help the ownership class and that's a no-no. And so we're supposed to hate the fact that the population might possibly get the kind of help that the ownership class has received for so long and thus you get all sorts of stories about how terrible it is that Obama might redistribute wealth.

Of course, wealth has always been redistributed, largely towards protecting Big Business interests, in programs that conservatives have been largely indoctrinated to believe are entirely justifiable. But wealth re-distribution only becomes a bad thing when there is the possibility that it might flow towards the pockets of the needy rather than the people who essentially control 88% of the financial assets in the country. Again, a real achievement of propaganda that people are outraged and that they believe their outrage represents a conservative point of view.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 08:06:31 AM by rockandroll » Logged
Bean Bag
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« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2013, 08:55:09 AM »

Most of us are neither conservative nor liberal, or rather, we are a combination of both... Wanting to be left alone and to respect others rights to be left alone is more liberal, as in respecting the liberty of others.

There's too much literal weight applied to the terminology "conservative" and "liberal."  It doesn't mean "tight-wad" and "wild n' free" respectively.  It doesn't mean Republican or Democrat.  It simply refers to one's focus, tendency and starting point when thinking of how to best resolve societal issues.  Which is either...

Correct.  A pyramid -- people at the base, feds tiny at the top.
OR
Incorrect.  Inverted pyramid - people tiny at the bottom, feds do it all at the top.

In a classroom, liberals will likely deny this definition, because they are in the red -- they are incorrect.  But watch them in action.  Get your safari hat on, your binoculars out and watch the liberals in their natural habitat.  They choose incorrectly nearly all the time.  Obviously, they will not openly admit to any of this.  Because they are incorrect.  And everything that follows (aka:  their entire ideology) is a never-ending series of conflicting theories, loopy crises, deception and convoluted drawn-out talking points -- to buy them time to come up with something else.

... Nor does everyone want to be "left alone" .... Many want community.

My comment that "people want to be left-alone" is correct.  It ALLOWS you to be left alone to form communities, or whatever that means to you.  That's why I always say "Conservationism ALLOWS for Liberals to exists, but Liberalism DOES NOT ALLOW for Conservatism to exist."

Correct or Incorrect.  That's the only eternal issue here.

In a free land, if you want to create a socialist paradise (or whatever) in your small town... do it.  No profit -- everything goes to the community.  Fine!  Enjoy!!  But in a socialist, top-down nation, I am not free to create a capitalist paradise for my peoples.

It's statements like that, that I hope are profoundly eye-opening to the lefties and "moderates" on the board.  Liberalism is intolerance.  Liberalism is inferior.  If one realizes the divine superiority and human perfection that Conservatism is and allows for -- it should be enough for people to NEVER allow Liberals anywhere near the top of the pyramid.  Liberalism is incorrect.  It's the opposite of choice.  And it will damn us all to hell.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 08:58:43 AM by Bean Bag » Logged

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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2013, 12:01:58 PM »

what makes you think anyone wants a top down socialist country ..... or whatever.... just because they're not half crazed with right-winger-ness?

that is the eternal question......
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« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2013, 12:53:25 PM »

what makes you think anyone wants a top down socialist country ..... or whatever.... just because they're not half crazed with right-winger-ness?

that is the eternal question......
I don't think anyone (or very many) do.  That's kind of my point.
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« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2013, 12:58:48 PM »

what makes you think anyone wants a top down socialist country ..... or whatever.... just because they're not half crazed with right-winger-ness?

that is the eternal question......
I don't think anyone (or very many) do.  That's kind of my point.

then on this point we agree
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2013, 01:15:47 PM »

what makes you think anyone wants a top down socialist country ..... or whatever.... just because they're not half crazed with right-winger-ness?

that is the eternal question......
I don't think anyone (or very many) do.  That's kind of my point.

then on this point we agree

But do you agree that we're moving more and more to the inverted pyramid model -- putting more and more control at the top?
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« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2013, 01:26:30 PM »

what makes you think anyone wants a top down socialist country ..... or whatever.... just because they're not half crazed with right-winger-ness?

that is the eternal question......
I don't think anyone (or very many) do.  That's kind of my point.

then on this point we agree

But do you agree that we're moving more and more to the inverted pyramid model -- putting more and more control at the top?

The power is already at the top and it's always been regardless if it's the government or corporate power, or thugs with more weapons than you.....
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« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2013, 02:02:45 PM »

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/18/black-louisiana-senator-flees-democratic-party-fre/


Will this air on CNN tonight?? Will the Daily Show crowd get this??


I wonder about lefties getting their news from admitted socialist Jon Stewart (a comedian doing a comedy show).... Maybe I should start getting my news from SNL.


I'll add this comment from the comment section to the article...


A Short Course on Democrats and Republicans

Democrats are the party of the poor and those who chose to remain poor.

Republicans are the party of the rich and those who aspire to become rich.

Democrats actively seek to create more poor (in order to have enough votes to win elections).

Republicans actively seek to create more rich (in order to have enough votes to win elections).

Democrats favor economic policies that make it more difficult to get ahead.

Republicans favor economic policies that make it easier to get ahead.

Democrats have faith in redistribution and anti-business policies to create more dependency and more Democrat voters.

Republicans have faith in freedom and free enterprise to create more prosperity and more Republican voters.

Democrats believe in and promote the idea that those who take risks to create jobs and opportunities are greedy Robber Barons who should be publicly scorned and heavily taxed.

Republicans believe in and promote the idea that those who take risks to create jobs and opportunities are productive Entrepreneurs and Investors who should be admired and emulated and keep their profits so they can reinvest them to create more jobs and opportunities.

If redistribution and anti-business policies do not create enough poor to win elections, Democrats are willing to import (legally or illegally) additional poor to expand their power base.

Republicans would love to see more immigrants participate in the economy but understand that the welfare state created by the Democrats now makes an open immigration policy impossible without bankrupting the country.

According to left wing pollster Zogby, the less economically literate one is, the more likely they are to be a Democrat while the more economically literate one is, the more likely they are to be a Republican.

http://econjwatch.org/articles...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 02:04:28 PM by Mahalo » Logged
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2013, 02:21:02 PM »

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/18/black-louisiana-senator-flees-democratic-party-fre/


Will this air on CNN tonight?? Will the Daily Show crowd get this??


I wonder about lefties getting their news from admitted socialist Jon Stewart (a comedian doing a comedy show).... Maybe I should start getting my news from SNL.


I'll add this comment from the comment section to the article...


A Short Course on Democrats and Republicans

Democrats are the party of the poor and those who chose to remain poor.

Republicans are the party of the rich and those who aspire to become rich.

Democrats actively seek to create more poor (in order to have enough votes to win elections).

Republicans actively seek to create more rich (in order to have enough votes to win elections).

Democrats favor economic policies that make it more difficult to get ahead.

Republicans favor economic policies that make it easier to get ahead.

Democrats have faith in redistribution and anti-business policies to create more dependency and more Democrat voters.

Republicans have faith in freedom and free enterprise to create more prosperity and more Republican voters.

Democrats believe in and promote the idea that those who take risks to create jobs and opportunities are greedy Robber Barons who should be publicly scorned and heavily taxed.

Republicans believe in and promote the idea that those who take risks to create jobs and opportunities are productive Entrepreneurs and Investors who should be admired and emulated and keep their profits so they can reinvest them to create more jobs and opportunities.

If redistribution and anti-business policies do not create enough poor to win elections, Democrats are willing to import (legally or illegally) additional poor to expand their power base.

Republicans would love to see more immigrants participate in the economy but understand that the welfare state created by the Democrats now makes an open immigration policy impossible without bankrupting the country.

According to left wing pollster Zogby, the less economically literate one is, the more likely they are to be a Democrat while the more economically literate one is, the more likely they are to be a Republican.

http://econjwatch.org/articles...


Yawn..... Just more pandering to empty words, definitions to keep us fighting with each other...... Though there is some truth here.... Though, the "comments" seem to be regarding politicians and not people
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2013, 08:32:35 AM »


Quote from: Bean Bag
But do you agree that we're moving more and more to the inverted pyramid model -- putting more and more control at the top?

The power is already at the top and it's always been regardless if it's the government or corporate power, or thugs with more weapons than you.....

You're right.  Throughout human history this has been the case.  America's been the attempted exception -- the inverted pyramid.  That was the concept -- the "great experiment."  Which is what prompted Jefferson (?) to say "... if we can keep it."

237 years later.  We haven't kept it.  We can get it back, we haven't lost it totally.  That's why Americans are appalled with the constant tinkering of our rights -- the 2nd Amendment, the 4th, the 10th, etc. -- and this desire to replace them with things that aren't "rights" -- free health care, food stamps.  Those are services not rights.  Cotton picking is a service... not a right of the slave owner or the person wanting a good price on cotton-goods.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 08:33:43 AM by Bean Bag » Logged

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