ID'ing The Brian Wilson 1965 "Girl Scouts" Pic Just Posted On Facebook

[guitarfool2002]

This photo which seemed to be new for most people seeing it showed up on Brian's Facebook yesterday, showing him with a group of Girl Scouts holding copies of "The Little Girl I Once Knew" 45rpm single:



The Facebook tag dated this as November 1965. There was also a question posted asking at what studio this photo was taken.

If these questions have already been addressed or answered, I haven't seen the results, but apologies if what follows is repeat info.

First, I'd like to question and challenge the date posted on Facebook's caption of the photo, and ask if there is confirmation on when and where I believe the event at which this photo and meeting took place actually happened.

The Badman book, which is the only one I've had a chance to reference so far, lists a date of January 3, 1966 for a special presentation held at Capitol Records in LA where Voyle Gilmore recognized them for all of their gold-selling albums up to that point. This photo and caption is from a later issue of Billboard magazine:



This is a photo from Getty showing an unidentified younger man interviewing the band at this event:



And these are more images taken from Getty showing the same gold record event at Capitol:






Notice Brian's clothes and hair are exactly the same in the Girl Scout photo as in the photos of the actual event and press conference, and the photos also show them wearing coats and winter clothes which would line up with a January 1966 date...perhaps.

But looking at all these photos together, I believe the Girl Scout photo was indeed taken at Capitol studios either before or after the actual presentation and press event with Voyle Gilmore, and it would make sense to have a series of photo-ops and media events scheduled at the Capitol tower that same day when everyone was there. In January 1966, the "Little Girl..." single was still, I believe, the current Beach Boys single in the stores, though it was released earlier in November.

The Capitol studio location...I'm pretty confident that's where it was shot, but am not 100% sure.

The Badman book's date of Jan 3, 1966...can anyone prove or disprove that date of the Voyle Gilmore press event?

[Gohi]

Wow, Brian was pretty chunky here.
This post is very conducive to quality discussion.

[Sheriff John Stone]

In January 1966, the "Little Girl..." single was still, I believe, the current Beach Boys single in the stores, though it was released earlier in November.

"The Little Girl I Once Knew" was released on November 27, 1965, however, "Barbara Ann" was released on December 20, 1965. Maybe because "The Little Girl I Once Knew" didn't sell as expected, Capitol had a few extra copies sitting around and handed them out?     

[SloopJohnnyB]

Anyone out there have the 'Brian Wilson Live at the Roxy Theatre' DVD-Audio disc? I believe a very similiar photo from the same photo shoot was used on 'The Little Girl I Once Knew' track. Very cool photo. I think the one on the DVD-Audio disc is actually better. Maybe someone can do a screen grab and post it here. I'll take a look at my copy later today.

Maybe it's the same photo but I don't remember Brian's eyes being closed.

[Rocker]

Looking at Dennis' clothes I think this might be taken at the same date as this one with the Everly Brothers. But Brian wears a coat.

[guitarfool2002]

In January 1966, the "Little Girl..." single was still, I believe, the current Beach Boys single in the stores, though it was released earlier in November.

"The Little Girl I Once Knew" was released on November 27, 1965, however, "Barbara Ann" was released on December 20, 1965. Maybe because "The Little Girl I Once Knew" didn't sell as expected, Capitol had a few extra copies sitting around and handed them out?     

I was thinking the same thing! They'd probably prefer those girls actually *buy* the new Barbara Ann single rather than hand it out. If they had cases of the Little Girl single left over, and these were "little girls", it would make sense!

The date of the Voyle Gilmore event is key, if someone could confirm it 100%. Because that is when it would appear all of the photos were taken. Not sure about the Everly Brothers shot, Brian looks thinner. Who knows.

[Sheriff John Stone]

In January 1966, the "Little Girl..." single was still, I believe, the current Beach Boys single in the stores, though it was released earlier in November.

"The Little Girl I Once Knew" was released on November 27, 1965, however, "Barbara Ann" was released on December 20, 1965. Maybe because "The Little Girl I Once Knew" didn't sell as expected, Capitol had a few extra copies sitting around and handed them out?      

I was thinking the same thing! They'd probably prefer those girls actually *buy* the new Barbara Ann single rather than hand it out. If they had cases of the Little Girl single left over, and these were "little girls", it would make sense!

The date of the Voyle Gilmore event is key, if someone could confirm it 100%. Because that is when it would appear all of the photos were taken. Not sure about the Everly Brothers shot, Brian looks thinner. Who knows.

Brian and Dennis's hair and clothing are identical in both the Gilmore and Everly Brothers shots. What are the odds of their hair AND their clothing being identical? Brian doesn't necessarily look thinner in the Everly Brothers' photo. The lighting and angles can be deceiving.

[guitarfool2002]

Another point about the Barbara Ann and Little Girl singles to consider: However true it is, wasn't Barbara Ann an "unplanned" single release for Capitol? If the legend is true, and this could be confirmed by those who know much more about it, some radio DJ's started playing the longer Barbara Ann album cut from Party on their stations, and the response from listeners created and proved a demand for the song as a single. Then Capitol edited the last 40 seconds or so off of the album track and created the Barbara Ann single to cash in on the demand they saw from those radio stations.

Of course the Barbara Ann single outperformed Little Girl, and it would seem it was accidental due to those DJ's creating the buzz in their own markets for the song. It was unusual to have two singles released within a month of each other, it would seem natural one would overshadow the other.

So perhaps at the time these photos were taken, Little Girl may still have been the single of record for the Beach Boys but the demand created by those DJ's playing an album cut led to a rush release of another single and they were both on the charts as "current" BB's releases.

[SenorPotatoHead]

Do the Girl Scouts keep records of big things like this?  Maybe this troop could be identified, must have been an LA area troop (at least i would think), probably some of these "little girls" are still alive and kicking with memories of this event?

And I also want to know - did Brian and the boys order cookies? 

[Cam Mott]

That shirt, vest, pocket watch combo is bad ass.

[Ian]

I have done a lot of work on dating concerts, TV apps and recording sessions properly-but photo sessions and press conferences have proven pretty difficult. I wouldn't trust the Badman dates without confirmation though based on his poor track record at that sort of thing. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I cannot for the life of me recall the book or the author, but there's convincing evidence therein that the release of "Barbara-fucking-Ann" was Brian's idea.

[hypehat]

That girl scouts & Brian shot sorta reminds me of every school photo I ever had.

[Pretty Funky]

This picture came up before. Heres a reply from C-man from a few years back but still nothing definite.

The Beach Boys geek in my would like to know in which recording studio hallway that girl scouts photo was taken. 

Probably Columbia (where Brian was recording vocals in late '65/early '66)...or maybe Capitol (who likely paid for the publicity photo shoot).  Not Western though, since the studios are "lettered" (A, B, C) instead of "numbered" (1, 2, 3).  Has anyone here been in the hallway downstairs at Capitol?  I've only made it to the ground floor lobby...

[mikeyj]

I cannot for the life of me recall the book or the author, but there's convincing evidence therein that the release of "Barbara-fucking-Ann" was Brian's idea.

Is it this one?

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Je7C3JHRs7UC&pg=PA17&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

[bgas]

I cannot for the life of me recall the book or the author, but there's convincing evidence therein that the release of "Barbara-fucking-Ann" was Brian's idea.

Is it this one?

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Je7C3JHRs7UC&pg=PA17&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

  Interesting, as Carlin's book says Capitol Execs released BA much to Brian's Chagrin
But now, reading that, and remembering having seen it previously, I'd question, which is more likely?  Could Ken have been remembering some other record? or did Carlin simply report erroneous conclusions of others?

[Andrew G. Doe]

That's the one. Thanks.

[Shady]

wow, check out the girl with the headgear, those must've been tough times.

No wonder Brian is beaming in these pictures, musically he was white hot during this period.

[rn57]

wow, check out the girl with the headgear, those must've been tough times.

No wonder Brian is beaming in these pictures, musically he was white hot during this period.

It may be that some younger South Park viewers think Shelley Marsh's braces are a weird invention of the show's creators. But the mouth stuff is based on historical fact. In the mid-1960s, the state of orthodontic science was about on a par with the belief that witches floated on water.  Hopefully, this young lady was later compensated in some way - maybe by starring in a couple of Tarantino's favorite low-budget movies.

[leggo of my ego]

Wow, Brian was pretty chunky here.
This post is very conducive to quality discussion.

Maybe the Girl Scouts presented Brian with a year's supply of GS Cookies?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It doesn't look like Capitol to me, unless they've moved entrances around and such.  I mean, I was there 40 years after the photo was taken, but the entrances to the studios were not arranged like that.

[EgoHanger1966]

wow, check out the girl with the headgear, those must've been tough times.

It's not that prehistoric of an idea....I wore headgear at night for a couple years to help straighten my teeth (along with the dreaded braces). Never had to wear it "out", though.

[guitarfool2002]

It doesn't look like Capitol to me, unless they've moved entrances around and such.  I mean, I was there 40 years after the photo was taken, but the entrances to the studios were not arranged like that.

They've renovated since '65-'66 I'm sure. But the most convincing circumstantial evidence is that Capitol did "letter" their studios since Sinatra and Riddle christened them, and it would make sense if not perfect sense to have called a major press event, with interviews, photographers, and Capitol brass like Voyle Gilmore and have a staged meeting/photo-op like the one with these scouts at the same time inside the Capitol building, where Capitol records were part of the photo op.

This was a Capitol event, from all appearances in the photos, why would another studio book and host such an event? Surely none of the independents would, and Columbia most likely wouldn't have a Capitol press event with Capitol brass in their building.

Above all, Brian is decked out in the same outfit. 

[guitarfool2002]

I cannot for the life of me recall the book or the author, but there's convincing evidence therein that the release of "Barbara-fucking-Ann" was Brian's idea.

Is it this one?

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Je7C3JHRs7UC&pg=PA17&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

  Interesting, as Carlin's book says Capitol Execs released BA much to Brian's Chagrin
But now, reading that, and remembering having seen it previously, I'd question, which is more likely?  Could Ken have been remembering some other record? or did Carlin simply report erroneous conclusions of others?

Interesting take on the story. So the oft-repeated story about radio DJ's in America spinning the longer album cut first, garnering a buzz among listeners, then inspiring a Capitol single edit to "officially" play on the radio and sell as a 45 is either legend or simply false?

It's always something with this band. 

[guitarfool2002]

After thinking this over a bit, and checking the dates, I'm wondering who else may be willing to call bullshit on some of Ken Mansfield's account of the Barbara Ann single.

Take one aspect for now, and that would be the release dates of fall 1965.

Assume in the record biz of fall 1965, approximately how long would it take to move a 45rpm single from the boardroom to the pressing plant to the shops, all artwork and printing included? Would the fastest turnaround for a 45rpm perhaps be at least a week from master to store shelves, perhaps two?

The Party! album, let's round it off and say it was released the second week on November 1965. There was no single release before the album to promote the album, nor was there an A-side single spun off the album released for well over a month after Party hit the stores.

The single "The Little Girl I Once Knew", let's again round it off, was released the last week of November 1965.

That leaves a three week gap where a new Beach Boys album hits the stores, complete with bags of corn chips (a promotion mentioned in Billboard) as a tie-in available in display bins at stores selling the record...followed by a new Beach Boys single whose A side sounds nothing, absolutely *nothing* like the album which was currently in the stores alongside the bags of corn chips.

Yet the B-side of that single was indeed from the Party album, a Phil Spector/Crystals cover.

How did those chart, both A and B side?

Now fast forward over six weeks after the Party album dropped, and within three weeks of a single featuring a Party cut as the B side appearing on the charts, the story we're supposed to believe is that Brian Wilson at some point while his own "Little Girl I Once Knew" single is a few weeks old, walks into a Capitol exec's office with an edited version of Barbara Ann and declares it to be the single, from an album almost two months old and in direct competition with his current single?

Not saying it didn't happen, but if you consider such a decision on Barbara Ann seems to have been made within a few weeks of his own latest BB's single being released, does it add up?

The story of DJ's spinning the album cut and it gathering steam that way first makes more sense on the surface and for history and timeline reasons.

The story of a Capitol exec in that meeting with Brian might be more plausible if it were the Party album's release being discussed, as there is even studio chatter among the band during the sessions about it being a potential problem or controversial release, whatever term they used during the conversation at the studio.

Just thinking out loud.