New Mike Examiner interview

[AndrewHickey]

My point is this, The Beach Boys shouldn't play casinos, period.

Why not?

What, exactly, is wrong with them performing anywhere that will pay them and has an audience? That's what musicians are *meant* to do.

[SMiLE Brian]

A casino is horrible place for a band to play, the venue is just there to convince people to gamble and waste money. Plus M&B play very flea-bag casinos in the United States.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My point is this, The Beach Boys shouldn't play casinos, period.

And pray tell, who, exactly, elected you God ? Or at least CEO of Brother Records, Inc. ?

I may be many things that are less than perfect, but I don't presume to tell musicians where and where not they may earn their living. Arrogance sir, sheer arrogance.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bottom line - The Beach Boys have played sh*t venues almost from day one: high school hops, county fairs, casinos, hotels. They didn't suddenly start doing it after Carl died.

[SMiLE Brian]

You calling me arrogant??? Thats like the pot calling the kettle black.


Let me tell ya, your the most arrogant person on this whole website. Just because your a BBs historian doesn't mean you treat people here like crap with a foul attitude. Swearing at and belittling posters is wrong no matter who you are. You need to check your ego and just be a normal poster who likes the BBs.

[filledeplage]

A casino is horrible place for a band to play, the venue is just there to convince people to gamble and waste money. Plus M&B play very flea-bag casinos in the United States.

SMiLE Brian - Casino venues have great shopping, restaurants and bars and plenty to do for non-gamblers.  That is not my thing.  If you go to a casino venue, you may find apple stores, as in Foxwoods/MGM Grand, ands lots of other interesting, shops, bars and restaurants.  Some consider them a nice destination.  It doesn't make the music any less quality.  And, lots of fans plan to meet there before or after a show.  

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But, Brian came and went. He started missing shows in 1963! He left the road in 1965.

I'm not sure what your point is here - is it that because he pulled away from the touring group that he was giving less to the band? I'd say that by concentrating more on production than touring, he probably gave more to the band in the long run. More over, he made the music during this period that has probably given the Beach Boys a cultural legitimacy that they might not otherwise have had.

He came back in 1976 for five years more or less and that was it. From 1968 - 2013 (45 years) he produced three albums - Friends, 15 Big Ones, and Love You. Frankly, I'm not sure about his contribution, production-wise, on TWGMTR. On the albums that he did not produce, Brian contributed anywhere from one to four new songs.

Erm, yeah, well, he did contribute (either by writing or recording) quite a few songs that were unused, rejected, or not finished - Walk On By, We're Together Again, Sail Plane Song, Ol' Man River, Walkin', When Girls Get Together, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, Back Home, Games Two Can Play, I Just Got My Pay, Help is On The Way, My Solution, all the Mount Vernon and Fairway stuff. Then, later, let's not forget all the Adult Child stuff.

Yeah, he was nowhere near the levels he had bene at previously but the albums from that era don't necessarily give a good picture of how much or how little Brian was contributing to the band.

All the while, Mike welcomed Brian back at any time. Mike mentioned it in several interviews. Brian's response was usually that he didn't like Mike Love, didn't like The Beach Boys, didn't want to work with Mike Love, didn't want to work with The Beach Boys, and didn't even want to TALK to Mike Love.

All the while? You mean, Brian was talking about not wanting work with Mike Love starting in 1968?

Brian continued to have a solo career, recording albums that easily could've, and in most cases, should've been Beach Boys' albums. Mike and the other Beach Boys patiently (or not) waited out the Landy period, only to have Brian begin another solo phase after he married Melinda. After Brian exhausts every kind of way to record a solo album, he decides that he now wants to be a Beach Boy again. Hmm.....

This is entirely groundless. You are basically suggesting that Brian only got back with The Beach Boys because he ran out of ideas for his solo career and so he came crawling back into the fold, which is absurd and somewhat offensive.

All those years, 1967- whenever, the Beach Boys were fu--ed. Personally and professionally. Guys were coming in and out of of the group. Drugs, mental illness, Murry, Manson, death, bankruptcy, solo careers, lawsuits, you name it. They had terrible managers, they made terrible decisions. You know who made some of the most terrible decisons? Mike Love. The first one was that tour with the Maharishi; cost them a fortune. There were others. What was that Celebration thing about? The cheerleaders. Stars And Stripes. Summer In Paradise. And many more. But you know what? At least he was trying something. Anything.

Why is trying "Anything" a virtue?

I can name some other Beach Boys who spent a lot of 60's, 70's, and 80's stoned. They were not dependable to lead the band; they were having trouble leading their own lives. They weren't fighting for the band. They were fighting their own demons. They weren't offering any ideas. They were working on their own music or producing outside acts. They were following, not leading. Mike was left to lead.

Not really. This makes it seem like they were all saying, "Good thing I can get stoned for three decades since I know that that sucker Mike will just pick up the slack and keep the industry going." Again, this all presumes that the best thing was to keep the industry going.

Well, he ain't marching anymore.

Uh huh.

Mike Love is done going out on a limb, trying to pull it all together, kissing asses. Let somebody else do it. I think Mike's burned out. He's waiting for somebody else to organize it.

You're suggesting he was the main figure behind the reunion?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Yes, I am - because you have decreed that in your expert opinion, a group of professional musicians should not be allowed to ply their trade in certain venues for no better reason than you don't like it: were you complaining as bitterly back in 1979, or the early 1980s ? I didn't like Kowalski drumming for Mike & Bruce towards the end of his tenure, and said so repeatedly, but my reasoning, shared by the majority here, was based on the strong opinion - proven by his being 'let go' in 2008 or so -  that he just wasn't up to the task any more and had become a liability, not just because I didn't like him.

BTW, it's "you're", not "your". Contraction of "you are" rather than a possessive.

[Jon Stebbins]

Mike Love is done going out on a limb, trying to pull it all together, kissing asses. Let somebody else do it. I think Mike's burned out. He's waiting for somebody else to organize it. He's waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50. If he/they get another offer like that, we'll see more Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, and Dave. If they don't, we won't.

I disagree. The whole reason Mike left 30 additional C50 date offers on the table and walked away was he got tired of compromise and not being totally in charge. For the first time in decades he was not THE MAN on the Beach Boys tour. He had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it. His out was that the orig. C50 plan was a relatively modest 50 dates and one album, which he went above and beyond. And although the public, the promoters, and Brian, Al and David wanted to continue because the whole thing had reached a level of popularity and success that was far beyond the orig. projection...and the demand was only growing...Mike wanted his independence, and his lean and profitable operation back... which includes playing corporate shows etc...and which included a bunch of guys that were not employed by the C50 tour including his son.

BTW...It wasn't Capitol who pulled C50 together, it was Joe Thomas and his operation.

[SMiLE Brian]

BTW, it's "you're", not "your". Contraction of "you are" rather than a possessive.

I am done debating if YOUR going to call me out on something that pediatric.

[Sheriff John Stone]

rockandroll, good stuff. I never did learn how to work the board well enough to respond to each individual quote by highlighting them (like you did), so I'll do my best to keep my responses organized.

1) I think while the guys understood and appreciated what Brian was trying to do when he left the road, I think there was increasing resentment when there was more partying and non-prescription drug intake and less songwriting and song production/finishing.

2) I think the albums from 20/20 through Holland show Brian contributing about 2-3 new songs or 6-7 minutes of music per year. I DO think the guys had to be disappointed in that output. Again, Brian wasn't wasn't doing much of anything else!

3) I admittedly did not word that part well. No, Mike was not welcoming Brian back in 1968.  Mike only started to welcome Brian back to the Beach Boys around 1988, around "Kokomo" - about 25 years ago.

4) rockandroll, you called my best point "groundless". Come on! I honestly and truly believe that Brian's return to the Beach Boys has more to do than the 50th Anniversary. The timing just happened to conveniently fall that way. I really think Brian's solo career is just about a wrap. But, that's for another thread. I think.

5) In the case of The Beach Boys, trying "anything" was a virtue. Now, I'm just just focusing on the 70's onward. Nobody was stepping up to the plate. Nobody was in any shape to. Did you expect Al to? And, we've had endless debates why Carl took a backseat. Mike looked like an ass but I give him an "A" for effort and having good intentions. He was just trying to make things happen for a dying group.

6) It wasn't my intention to hammer the Wilsons with my post, and I'm not really including Carl in most of this, and addiction is a touchy subject...Look, I don't want to say much more on this, but there was some irresponsibility on Brian and Dennis's part which left the other guys holding the bag - for a number of years. Mike didn't forget that.

7) Well, we agree on something. Mike's had it with "baggage".

I am suggesting Mike was one of two main figures behind the reunion. Hey 50% ain't bad. Lotta power in that.

Good discussion, rockandroll.

[Andrew G. Doe]

BTW, it's "you're", not "your". Contraction of "you are" rather than a possessive.

I am done debating if YOUR going to call me out on something that pediatric.

Nothing childish about the correct use of English. Not being able to... ah, now that's a different matter entirely. As is quitting the field of battle purely because I've corrected your spelling & grammar. That is very childish. A veritable flounce. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Mike Love is done going out on a limb, trying to pull it all together, kissing asses. Let somebody else do it. I think Mike's burned out. He's waiting for somebody else to organize it. He's waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50. If he/they get another offer like that, we'll see more Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, and Dave. If they don't, we won't.

I disagree. The whole reason Mike left 30 additional C50 date offers on the table and walked away was he got tired of compromise and not being totally in charge. For the first time in decades he was not THE MAN on the Beach Boys tour. He had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it. His out was that the orig. C50 plan was a relatively modest 50 dates and one album, which he went above and beyond. And although the public, the promoters, and Brian, Al and David wanted to continue because the whole thing had reached a level of popularity and success that was far beyond the orig. projection...and the demand was only growing...Mike wanted his independence, and his lean and profitable operation back... which includes playing corporate shows etc...and which included a bunch of guys that were not employed by the C50 tour including his son.

BTW...It wasn't Capitol who pulled C50 together, it was Joe Thomas and his operation.

I'm confused, Jon. I said that Mike doesn't want to kiss Brian's ass anymore. You disagreed with me and said, "He (Mike) had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it." What's the difference?

Also, you are the first one I have seen refer to a 50 date tour and a new album as "modest".  Frankly, most observers on this board, many of them scholars and honored guests (including you?) were shocked at what came off.

When I wrote that Mike is waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50, I was referring to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Mike won't budge for peanuts. I still think he's burned out, but that's just an OPINION.  

[Mikie]

That's one of the things that really bothers me.  He wants to use the Beach Boys name, that's fine but they shouldn't be accepting gigs at such unsophisticated venues.Not in 1981 when he left the group over the many casino shows and only came back when they agreed to play fewer casinos.

In '81 and '83, Carl played the Old Waldorf in S.F., which was a club as big or smaller than a casino. And Harrah's Tahoe isn't any bigger than the state fairs and smaller venues they were playing at the time. Carl just gave in, that's all. I don't think he fought it. He just wanted the band to tighten up its act because they were being complacent and doing less than stellar shows.

But. When you have a major rock band that packed baseball and football stadiums and basketball arenas and the Washington Mall drawing up to 50,000 people, and then resort to playing county fairs and Chevrolet dealership grand openings, then you start wondering. I know I did. And still do.

[SMiLE Brian]

Good points Mikie, M&B played a show a fair not too far from my home. The worst part was they advertised it with BBs song clips from 1964 like Brian was there.

[Rocky Raccoon]

M&B just love dragging the BBs name to those sleazy casinos. 

That's one of the things that really bothers me.  He wants to use the Beach Boys name, that's fine but they shouldn't be accepting gigs at such unsophisticated venues.

Brian, of course, would never, ever play a casino. No sir, he would not.

He isn't touring as "The Beach Boys".

Exactly.  Brian is touring under his own name, the only reputation he has to carry is his own.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Well put, everyone.... I would never suggest The Bruce Boys NOT play used car lots etc etc, I would just rather they not. That's all. It's not a big deal really.....  There are many ways Mike/Bruce could up their credibility and still make as much money and tour as much as they do, but they just don't seem interested, and that's fair enough.

[SMiLE Brian]

BTW, it's "you're", not "your". Contraction of "you are" rather than a possessive.

I am done debating if YOUR going to call me out on something that pediatric.

Nothing childish about the correct use of English. Not being able to... ah, now that's a different matter entirely. As is quitting the field of battle purely because I've corrected your spelling & grammar. That is very childish. A veritable flounce. 

I done fighting because I am going to be the better man on this board.

[Pretty Funky]

I think what many here fail or refuse to grasp is that the C50 was the pulling together or merging of 2 very seperate touring operations under one title for a set period, later extended.
Without rehashing the differences as they are well known here, that it went off so well is a credit to all involved but once done it was always obvious to me that both operations would part. Their differences are just too great.

Mike did the right thing in that interview. Had he said they will get together to record, every interview this year would ask for details which he does not care for. Hell....if anything was going on he could be legally required not to say anything for all we know.

Had he said 'Sure, we are getting together in 2014 for another tour' then that would impact on interest for Mike and Bruce gigs this year.

We were just sooo lucky last year but who knows if lightning will strike twice.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Andrew, SB...please play nicely. Agree to disagree.

BTW...back when I used to perform live, I took part in  a casino show outside Vegas(no, I was not the headliner...far from it ). Got to meet Otis Williams. which was pretty cool, apart from him kind of being a D-bag.  Sound was great, crowd was great...and the food SUCKED. Got food poisoning. But, I did get to go to the strip and see some other shows, and they were all excellent. Now county fairs and such? Not my bag at all.

[Pretty Funky]

I took part in  a casino show outside Vegas

Judas!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Hey, I was 18 and it was for unsigned people...wasn't gonna turn that one down! Now the funny part is, I did a Beatles song, which for anyone who knows me, is hilarious.

[Pretty Funky]

A Beatles song? Burn in Hell!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

It was 'Come Together', if anybody cares. And apparently, they didn't!

[Pretty Funky]

...and neither are the Beach Boys anytime time soon it seems!

Enough of this. There is more Mike bashing waiting in the wings here I'm sure.