New Mike Examiner interview

[KittyKat]

Hasn't Brian Wilson himself played several casino shows on both the east and west coasts? For a lot of towns, it is the only venue in town.  Places like Reno, Tahoe, Vegas, and Atlantic City, you're pretty much left with nothing but casinos to play. Should a band deprive the state of Nevada a chance to see their act because almost all theaters happen to be in casinos? With the advent of Indian gaming, there are a lot of nice venues for bands to play.  Brian has played Pala in San Diego. I believe he may have even done "Smile" at Pala Casino. He could have done Humphrey's by the Bay or some other venue, but Pala Casino was good enough for him to do "Smile." Brian has also played at least some fairs. Pullayap  in Washington comes to mind. There may have been others.

[Jim V.]

I honestly and truly believe that Brian's return to the Beach Boys has more to do than the 50th Anniversary. The timing just happened to conveniently fall that way. I really think Brian's solo career is just about a wrap. But, that's for another thread. I think.

Sheriff, I do agree with you to an extent that Brian's return to The Beach Boys probably did have a bit to do with the fact that his solo career had played every ace they had up their sleeve: long awaited first solo album ('88 album), return to the road (Live at the Roxy), Pet Sounds Live, SMiLE, an "artistic" follow up to SMiLE (TLOS), and then covering a legend and taking that legend's "unfinished" works (BWRG). The whole Disney thing (all with being contractually obligated) seemed to insinuate that they pretty much played every angle of the solo thing, and the best way to properly promote new Brian Wilson material would be best done via The Beach Boys.

However, it did seem like all Mike Love wanted for the longest time was to reunite with cousin and do it the way they used to. So finally, Brian comes around, gives the guys an album of pretty great material, Mike gets to write with him, and they have the biggest Beach Boys happenings tour-wise probably since the '80s. Not to mention a number 3 album on the charts. So why all of the sudden would Mike not wanna continue that? First I think that the album kinda pissed him off because it wasn't as "Fun, Fun, Fun" as he thought it would be (check the Rolling Stone article for hints at this). I mean, even if he didn't wanna tour with Brian and Al still, Brian was talking about doing a new Beach Boys album late last year. What stopped that? Al sure didn't sound like he would pass that up. Seems like Mike knew that if they did that, he'd have to promote with that big contingency, and also have to spend time in the studio working in the studio that have a bit too much cumulus nimbus for his taste.

Overall, I think Mike realized that he likes Brian and the whole "Brian Wilson mystique" a lot less in reality then he thought he did. He always wanted to reunite, but once they did he probably realized that yeah, he wanted to work with Brian in the studio again but he really didn't care for the way this one went, so what's the use in doing it again. And as far as on stage, why go out there with Brian and his own bus and Al and his whining about the set list, when he can just go out there on his own, sing "409", pick up a check, hit the hotel bar with his son Christian and go pick up some babes. No headaches, just "The Beach Boys" his way.

I disagree. The whole reason Mike left 30 additional C50 date offers on the table and walked away was he got tired of compromise and not being totally in charge. For the first time in decades he was not THE MAN on the Beach Boys tour. He had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it. His out was that the orig. C50 plan was a relatively modest 50 dates and one album, which he went above and beyond. And although the public, the promoters, and Brian, Al and David wanted to continue because the whole thing had reached a level of popularity and success that was far beyond the orig. projection...and the demand was only growing...Mike wanted his independence, and his lean and profitable operation back... which includes playing corporate shows etc...and which included a bunch of guys that were not employed by the C50 tour including his son.

BTW...It wasn't Capitol who pulled C50 together, it was Joe Thomas and his operation.

You are pretty much right on Jon. I think Mike wants to be the boss, plain and simple. And for the first time since probably the 1980s, there was somebody (Brian and co. in this case) that was not only challenging his leadership, but co-captaining the ship. And then you got the fact that his son wasn't in the band. And also the fact that Brian Wilson would get that ovation when his name was called after Mike Love's. Which I'm sure Doctor Love's ego still doesn't take all that kindly.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Christian wasn't participating by his own choice.

[SMiLE Brian]

Overall, I think Mike realized that he likes Brian and the whole "Brian Wilson mystique" a lot less in reality then he thought he did. He always wanted to reunite, but once they did he probably realized that yeah, he wanted to work with Brian in the studio again but he really didn't care for the way this one went, so what's the use in doing it again. And as far as on stage, why go out there with Brian and his own bus and Al and his whining about the set list, when he can just go out there on his own, sing "409", pick up a check, hit the hotel bar with his son Christian and go pick up some babes. No headaches, just "The Beach Boys" his way.

In my opinion, its sad that Mike always will look at touring in this manner. C50 was his last shot and he blew it when he was SO close to redemption in the eyes of the fans. I even believed he had changed for the better.

[drbeachboy]

That's one of the things that really bothers me.  He wants to use the Beach Boys name, that's fine but they shouldn't be accepting gigs at such unsophisticated venues.Not in 1981 when he left the group over the many casino shows and only came back when they agreed to play fewer casinos.

In '81 and '83, Carl played the Old Waldorf in S.F., which was a club as big or smaller than a casino. And Harrah's Tahoe isn't any bigger than the state fairs and smaller venues they were playing at the time. Carl just gave in, that's all. I don't think he fought it. He just wanted the band to tighten up its act because they were being complacent and doing less than stellar shows.

But. When you have a major rock band that packed baseball and football stadiums and basketball arenas and the Washington Mall drawing up to 50,000 people, and then resort to playing county fairs and Chevrolet dealership grand openings, then you start wondering. I know I did. And still do.

Mikie, even when they were filling stadiums and the such, they were still doing colleges and state fairs. Into 1989 they were still playing big venues like the Spectrum here in Philly, yet some years they were playing smaller venues like the Mann Music Center or the Valley Forge Music Fair. There was more to it than just copping out.

[Custom Machine]

A casino is horrible place for a band to play, the venue is just there to convince people to gamble and waste money. Plus M&B play very flea-bag casinos in the United States.

SMiLE Brian - Casino venues have great shopping, restaurants and bars and plenty to do for non-gamblers.  That is not my thing.  If you go to a casino venue, you may find apple stores, as in Foxwoods/MGM Grand, ands lots of other interesting, shops, bars and restaurants.  Some consider them a nice destination.  It doesn't make the music any less quality.  And, lots of fans plan to meet there before or after a show.  

Let's not forget, though, that casino shows are sometimes shorter than non-casino shows at the request of the casino.  That was the case when I attended back to back Mike & Bruce BB shows a few years ago with a couple of stellar members of this board.  The casino show was about 20 minutes shorter than the non-casino performance the night before, as the casino had requested a shortened set list in order to get the concerts attendees into the gambling mode as soon as possible.

[drbeachboy]

Overall, I think Mike realized that he likes Brian and the whole "Brian Wilson mystique" a lot less in reality then he thought he did. He always wanted to reunite, but once they did he probably realized that yeah, he wanted to work with Brian in the studio again but he really didn't care for the way this one went, so what's the use in doing it again. And as far as on stage, why go out there with Brian and his own bus and Al and his whining about the set list, when he can just go out there on his own, sing "409", pick up a check, hit the hotel bar with his son Christian and go pick up some babes. No headaches, just "The Beach Boys" his way.

In my opinion, its sad that Mike always will look at touring in this manner. C50 was his last shot and he blew it when he was SO close to redemption in the eyes of the fans. I even believed he had changed for the better.

As Jon alluded to, maybe Brian's wifeandmanagers had more to do with Mike's decision then we know.

[Mikie]

I know, Doc. I was at most of them out here in Cali too. Even a coupla college gigs and a private backyard benefit. But they never played the Santa Cruz Boardwalk! What a letdown after I saw them in the 70's filling stadiums. Then Dennis checked out and it was still OK for awhile but then Carl died, then after that it just wasn't.....

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Overall, I think Mike realized that he likes Brian and the whole "Brian Wilson mystique" a lot less in reality then he thought he did. He always wanted to reunite, but once they did he probably realized that yeah, he wanted to work with Brian in the studio again but he really didn't care for the way this one went, so what's the use in doing it again. And as far as on stage, why go out there with Brian and his own bus and Al and his whining about the set list, when he can just go out there on his own, sing "409", pick up a check, hit the hotel bar with his son Christian and go pick up some babes. No headaches, just "The Beach Boys" his way.

God, I love how we all just openly assume Mike rampantly cheats on his wife (and Bruce) while on tour...... I absolutely love it. 

[Custom Machine]

The fact that Brian did not afford Mike the opportunity for just the two of them to spend time writing songs together for the That's Why God Made the Radio album may have also played into Mike's decision not to continue the C50 tour with Brian et al.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I honestly and truly believe that Brian's return to the Beach Boys has more to do than the 50th Anniversary. The timing just happened to conveniently fall that way. I really think Brian's solo career is just about a wrap. But, that's for another thread. I think.

Sheriff, I do agree with you to an extent that Brian's return to The Beach Boys probably did have a bit to do with the fact that his solo career had played every ace they had up their sleeve: long awaited first solo album ('88 album), return to the road (Live at the Roxy), Pet Sounds Live, SMiLE, an "artistic" follow up to SMiLE (TLOS), and then covering a legend and taking that legend's "unfinished" works (BWRG). The whole Disney thing (all with being contractually obligated) seemed to insinuate that they pretty much played every angle of the solo thing, and the best way to properly promote new Brian Wilson material would be best done via The Beach Boys.

However, it did seem like all Mike Love wanted for the longest time was to reunite with cousin and do it the way they used to. So finally, Brian comes around, gives the guys an album of pretty great material, Mike gets to write with him, and they have the biggest Beach Boys happenings tour-wise probably since the '80s. Not to mention a number 3 album on the charts. So why all of the sudden would Mike not wanna continue that? First I think that the album kinda pissed him off because it wasn't as "Fun, Fun, Fun" as he thought it would be (check the Rolling Stone article for hints at this). I mean, even if he didn't wanna tour with Brian and Al still, Brian was talking about doing a new Beach Boys album late last year. What stopped that? Al sure didn't sound like he would pass that up. Seems like Mike knew that if they did that, he'd have to promote with that big contingency, and also have to spend time in the studio working in the studio that have a bit too much cumulus nimbus for his taste.

Overall, I think Mike realized that he likes Brian and the whole "Brian Wilson mystique" a lot less in reality then he thought he did. He always wanted to reunite, but once they did he probably realized that yeah, he wanted to work with Brian in the studio again but he really didn't care for the way this one went, so what's the use in doing it again. And as far as on stage, why go out there with Brian and his own bus and Al and his whining about the set list, when he can just go out there on his own, sing "409", pick up a check, hit the hotel bar with his son Christian and go pick up some babes. No headaches, just "The Beach Boys" his way.

sweetdudejim, I agree with you. Almost completely as a matter of fact. A while back we had that long thread when the tour was over and people were blaming Mike for not wanting to continue and Brian and Al were commenting in interviews and everything. I had originally thought that Mike would ALWAYS want to work with Brian and actually just WANT TO BE AROUND BRIAN IN ANY CAPACITY. I was wrong. I admit it. I never thought I'd see that day. But it's here.

Look, I'm not defending Mike. I'm just trying to see his point of view. I wish Mike DIDN'T feel this way. I wish Mike wanted to tour again and record again with Brian and Al and David. I am extremely surprised and disappointed. I'm just trying to figure out WHY Mike feels the way he does and write about it. And I think you hit on some good and accurate points.

Unfortunately, and I mean unfortunately, this situation appears to be a bit of "what goes around comes around"  - as it pertains to Brian and Mike's relationship, or more specifically, Brian's past actions and words.

[rab2591]

A casino is horrible place for a band to play, the venue is just there to convince people to gamble and waste money. Plus M&B play very flea-bag casinos in the United States.

For a band with that calibre of fame, it kills me to see "the Beach Boys" play at Casinos.

It's like if Ringo somehow got the rights to the Beatles name and toured the country ,without Macca, in Casinos. Think about it; it's fucking lame. That's just my humble opinion. However, the legacy of the Beach Boys won't be tarnished by a few Casino playings. If that's what Mike wants to do, he can do it....I still cringe at the idea though.

Personally, I'm glad Brian isn't getting involved in that mess. I really think he should do his own thing (solo albums, his own tour with Al and Dave even). Personally I was surprised that Brian wanted the C50 band to keep going.

[SMiLE Brian]

Rab, if you had been able to see a C50 show, you would have seen why. Brian was enjoying it and singing at 100%.

[drbeachboy]

I know, Doc. I was at most of them out here in Cali too. Even a coupla college gigs and a private backyard benefit. But they never played the Santa Cruz Boardwalk! What a letdown after I saw them in the 70's filling stadiums. Then Dennis checked out and it was still OK for awhile but then Carl died, then after that it just wasn't.....

Hey, less than 3 years after Good Vibrations and Break Away was the new single, I watched them in small room with a stage. The room fit no more than 200 people and we had to stand. Not even a stinkin' folding chair. I guess you go where you can get a booking.

[EgoHanger1966]

I think Brian enjoyed the C50 lineup because it took the pressure off him being the frontman. He didn't have as much to be nervous about. But then again - imagine this - he stated in a mid-tour interview (forget which one, maybe the Google press thing? or QTV?) that he got super nervous the first 30 minutes of the C50 shows. He didn't even have to do any talking. So, during a solo show, it must be really rough for him. Not that he doesn't enjoy the music, it's just that if you have stage fright, being the center star of attraction is a daunting task for anyone, let alone someone with auditory hallucinations.

Re: the casino thing....meh, Brian has played places solo that are smaller than your average casino. I don't think it's hurting anyone's reputation atthis late date in the game.

[Jon Stebbins]

Mike Love is done going out on a limb, trying to pull it all together, kissing asses. Let somebody else do it. I think Mike's burned out. He's waiting for somebody else to organize it. He's waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50. If he/they get another offer like that, we'll see more Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, and Dave. If they don't, we won't.

I disagree. The whole reason Mike left 30 additional C50 date offers on the table and walked away was he got tired of compromise and not being totally in charge. For the first time in decades he was not THE MAN on the Beach Boys tour. He had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it. His out was that the orig. C50 plan was a relatively modest 50 dates and one album, which he went above and beyond. And although the public, the promoters, and Brian, Al and David wanted to continue because the whole thing had reached a level of popularity and success that was far beyond the orig. projection...and the demand was only growing...Mike wanted his independence, and his lean and profitable operation back... which includes playing corporate shows etc...and which included a bunch of guys that were not employed by the C50 tour including his son.

BTW...It wasn't Capitol who pulled C50 together, it was Joe Thomas and his operation.

I'm confused, Jon. I said that Mike doesn't want to kiss Brian's ass anymore. You disagreed with me and said, "He (Mike) had to defer to Brian's camp one too many times and he tired of it." What's the difference?

Also, you are the first one I have seen refer to a 50 date tour and a new album as "modest".  Frankly, most observers on this board, many of them scholars and honored guests (including you?) were shocked at what came off.

When I wrote that Mike is waiting for another offer like Capitol Records gave them for C50, I was referring to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Mike won't budge for peanuts. I still think he's burned out, but that's just an OPINION.  

Let me clear it up for you. Mike will still be needing to kiss Brian's ass if they get "another offer" like the one you're suggesting Mike is waiting for.  So what's the difference? And personally I don't think its kissing ass...I called it compromise...and deference...and Mike does not like either at this stage of his life.

The C50 tour/album etc... is comparatively modest compared to what was left on the table. That's what I meant by modest.

Capitol Records gave Mike no significant guaranteed money for C50...again the guaranteed  $$$ came from Joe Thomas's business model, backers and organization.

Mike definitely burned out on not being in charge and calling all the shots...you are right about that.

[SMiLE Brian]

What a shame, Mike's ego hasn't changed one bit. I wonder what the offers Mike turned down were since I am not an insider.

[Alex]

Rab, if you had been able to see a C50 show, you would have seen why. Brian was enjoying it and singing at 100%.

He was only at about 75-80% at Saratoga. But that was still 100% better than late 70s-early 80s Brian.

[oldsurferdude]

Not true at all, many music websites and magazines have been up in arms about Mike "firing" the group. So the public is against M&B.

It's obvious the agdster doesn't read much and reads only what his holiness wants to read. The english language comment is one of his mainstays. If you visit this board, the BW board and the SH board, you'll find mYke and Brooth treading quicksand.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Mike and Bruce aren't popular over at the bluboard?? You don't say!

[oldsurferdude]

It is indeed interesting that legitimate news organizations wouldn't stoop to using infantile expressions like "Brianista" against anyone who happens to find themselves agreeing with the common consensus when it comes to Brian Wilson and Mike Love.

It's as good a term as any when it comes to thinking that whatever happens, Brian does no wrong. Also, what's infantile about it? I've never heard one baby ever mutter the syllables.

I think the idea of people who believe that "Brian does not wrong" is often an invention by people who are grasping desperately to try to justify their own arguments and since they typically have no real argument, they resort to namecalling. Now that isn't to say that there aren't people who believe that "Brian does no wrong" but I rarely see them here. Rather, what I see here is people throwing around the term "Brianista" as a knee-jerk reaction because they really can't defend their own position. And it's applied to all sorts of positions - people who favour Smile and Pet Sounds over the early works, people who would prefer to see a Brian show over a Mike and Bruce show, people who like the way Brian looks in a picture even if though it was at a low point in his life. I don't particularly have much time for the belief that a person can do no wrong, but either way, the term is simply name-calling and as a result, it's puerile and always unnecessary.

[Jon Stebbins]

What a shame, Mike's ego hasn't changed one bit. I wonder what the offers Mike turned down were since I am not an insider.

At least 30 more C50 shows, another studio album, a bunch more high profile TV appearances etc... But I would not term it as Mike "turning them down"...I would say the prospect of these things were left on the table because they were never negotiated beyond the offer stage due to Mike's preference to return to his normal business model.

[oldsurferdude]

I think the distinction is that there is a level of unpredictability with Brian that is not there with Mike. Like Mike or not, it's a given pretty much that he will show up, be a good frontman and deliver the goods, an audible Bruce or not, whereas Brian might have a meltdown or walk off or something.

Spoken like a true mYkinista!

[oldsurferdude]

My point is this, The Beach Boys shouldn't play casinos, period.

And pray tell, who, exactly, elected you God ? Or at least CEO of Brother Records, Inc. ?

I may be many things that are less than perfect, but I don't presume to tell musicians where and where not they may earn their living. Arrogance sir, sheer arrogance.

Who elected you Pope? Shut up! He said. Look up arrogance in Webster's-like your photo?

[Rob Dean]

What a shame, Mike's ego hasn't changed one bit. I wonder what the offers Mike turned down were since I am not an insider.

At least 30 more C50 shows, another studio album, a bunch more high profile TV appearances etc... But I would not term it as Mike "turning them down"...I would say the prospect of these things were left on the table because they were never negotiated beyond the offer stage due to Mike's preference to return to his normal business model.

Yep Jon , and that included a stone wall offer of 2 nights at Madison Square Garden in NYC (and that's big business) , but what do we know ??