Bruce on Surf's Up (album)

[TimmyC]

Does anyone know why Bruce's role (seemingly) diminished so severely between Sunflower and Surf's Up? On Sunflower, he had multiple songwriting credits and lead vocals. On Surf's Up, only Disney Girls. What happened?

[Dutchie]

The manager Jack Reily  Bruce quit after an argument in 1971/72.

[Rocker]

On Sunflower, he had multiple songwriting creditss.

Dennis had not one credit on "Surf's up" although he had great stuff. Maybe "Disney girl (1957)" was the only Beach Boys-fitting song that Bruce came up with. I don't know.

[GuyOnTheBeach]

I think Bruce was saving all of his songs for when it became acceptable for white men to do Disco by this point 

Seriously though, I seem to recall that Mr Reilly had a hand in Bruce's diminishing participation on this album.

[Jim V.]

Well, I can't remember where I read or heard it, but I think Bruce's prerogative was to help Brian, and if necessary, take up a spot on albums. He basically said that he would rather not have a song taking up space a Brian song could.

I mean, that sounds like a very rose-colored portrayal, as apparently he was kicked out of the band for being disrespectful to Brian in the early '70s.

[lance]

I'm sure there was a lot of drama behind the scenes, but I think most likely the only decent song he had floating around at the time was Disney Girls. Who knows, but personally I doubt if he was George Harrisoned by the resst of the band: it's not as if Going Public is All Things Must Pass.

[clack]

Bruce has claimed he left the band because he disapproved of the drug use (the Wilson brothers, I guess).

Anyway, Bruce had never been prolific.  One and a half years after 20/20, their previous lp, 'Sunflower' featured one Bruce song (Tears in the Morning), and one he co-wrote with Brian (Deidre). A year later, when 'Surf's Up' was released, he had just one song. Seems to be contributing at the same pace, with no decline in productivity.

[Myk Luhv]

If indeed Reiley worked to limit his songs appearing on Surf's Up... good for him. Bruce is an awful songwriter.

[hypehat]

I'd say Bruce is more of a terrible lyricist - it's definitely his weakest point, at least. He's definitely not a bad composer or piano player, his songs are far too well constructed for that. But he's essentially the ultimate Brill Building type. He can write a slushy ballad to order, and almost to some kind of mediocre perfection. He fundamentally lacks spark or excitement.

[Myk Luhv]

Yeah, okay, maybe I was a bit unfair. He's a fine craftsman, even if the end results are often sentimental schmaltz-fests -- and I like "Deirdre" and "Disney Girls"! I mean, really dude, you were inspired by Brian's work on Pet Sounds so you wrote... "The Nearest Faraway Place"? I start dry heaving on all fours whenever that song comes on, ugh.

[filledeplage]

If indeed Reiley worked to limit his songs appearing on Surf's Up... good for him. Bruce is an awful songwriter.

Barry Manilow might opine differently.   

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Bruce has claimed he left the band because he disapproved of the drug use (the Wilson brothers, I guess).

Anyway, Bruce had never been prolific.  One and a half years after 20/20, their previous lp, 'Sunflower' featured one Bruce song (Tears in the Morning), and one he co-wrote with Brian (Deidre). A year later, when 'Surf's Up' was released, he had just one song. Seems to be contributing at the same pace, with no decline in productivity.

To be fair, didn't Brian contribute like a word or two to Diedre and Bruce gave him credit more as a gesture?

[Bicyclerider]

If I remember Jon's book correctly, wasn't it 1969-1970 when Carl and Mike considered replacing (i.e. firing) Bruce with David Marks?  Clearly there were some bad feelings or friction with Bruce, but it's unclear why.  He was an excellent keyboardist and musician, arranger, and singer of vocal harmonies.  Must have been his personality.

[Jim V.]

Bruce has claimed he left the band because he disapproved of the drug use (the Wilson brothers, I guess).

Anyway, Bruce had never been prolific.  One and a half years after 20/20, their previous lp, 'Sunflower' featured one Bruce song (Tears in the Morning), and one he co-wrote with Brian (Deidre). A year later, when 'Surf's Up' was released, he had just one song. Seems to be contributing at the same pace, with no decline in productivity.

To be fair, didn't Brian contribute like a word or two to Diedre and Bruce gave him credit more as a gesture?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's been said Brian didn't contribute very much to that song. So it's pretty much a "Bruce" song.

[Jon Stebbins]

If I remember Jon's book correctly, wasn't it 1969-1970 when Carl and Mike considered replacing (i.e. firing) Bruce with David Marks?  Clearly there were some bad feelings or friction with Bruce, but it's unclear why.  He was an excellent keyboardist and musician, arranger, and singer of vocal harmonies.  Must have been his personality.

I don't think it was to replace Bruce. Mike wanted Dave to re-join in '71, Carl asked Dave to play bass, he didn't want to play bass. Billy Hinsche asserts he was offered a spot as a Beach Boy in 1969, perhaps that was to replace Bruce. Billy can confirm or deny.

[Alan Smith]

Bruce has claimed he left the band because he disapproved of the drug use (the Wilson brothers, I guess).

Anyway, Bruce had never been prolific.  One and a half years after 20/20, their previous lp, 'Sunflower' featured one Bruce song (Tears in the Morning), and one he co-wrote with Brian (Deidre). A year later, when 'Surf's Up' was released, he had just one song. Seems to be contributing at the same pace, with no decline in productivity.

To be fair, didn't Brian contribute like a word or two to Diedre and Bruce gave him credit more as a gesture?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's been said Brian didn't contribute very much to that song. So it's pretty much a "Bruce" song.

The Deirdre credits got kicked around last year, but I don't think any definitive conclusions were forthcoming - would be interesting to hear the last word (with a source), or a link to any further threads:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11925.msg237945.html#msg237945

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11925.msg237951.html#msg237951

[Smilin Ed H]

Weren't there moves to replace Bruce with Billy Hinsche sometime around 1969?

When Bruce left - for whatever reason - Dennis and Mike were a little snarky in the music press, if I recall correctly.  However, he is on CATP and Holland and did play a couple or so shows on the 72 (or 73) tour, so they clearly didn't fall out too much.

[phirnis]

At the time, did Bruce work on "Brand New Old Friends" already? Bit sappy but would have made an interesting contribution to CATP.

[Smilin Ed H]

Wasn't it Ten Years of Harmony he was working on for CATP?

[Wild-Honey]

I'd say Bruce is more of a terrible lyricist - it's definitely his weakest point, at least. He's definitely not a bad composer or piano player, his songs are far too well constructed for that. But he's essentially the ultimate Brill Building type. He can write a slushy ballad to order, and almost to some kind of mediocre perfection. He fundamentally lacks spark or excitement.

I totally agree with you.  IMHO, even though the BB's covered a fairly wide range of music,  his songs are universes away from all of them,  his are just so totally different (I find them fakish) and I don't think they fit.   I know a lot of folks love his songs though.  As for his Barry Manilow hit?, I prefer Mandy.

[MBE]

Disney Girls is a great song because of the harmonies. My wife can't get past the words, but I am OK with them. Funny thing is that Bruce was a rocker in his pre Beach Boys days. He seems to have suddently wimped out in the late sixties.

[Wild-Honey]

I've been thinking about this for a while and wondering if I'm right,  but it seems that men seem to like Bruce's songs more than women.  Mind you there aren't a lot of females on this board...   My daughter and I don't like Bruces songs, think they are sappy.  Mike, you stating what your wife thinks made me think of it again.  It's a massive generalisation I know, and probably wrong,  but I am surprised at all the love.    Mind you, I live in Australia where men are not especially open in the "emotions" department.  This generation seem to be a lot better though.  Again.... this is a massive generalisation, but true of most of my male friends.

[MBE]

Hmm never thought of that. I think it depends how much sentiment you can handle when it comes to Bruce. He really gets MOR, but because The Beach Boys sang so well on them his Sunflower and Surf's Up stuff works for me.

[filledeplage]

I've been thinking about this for a while and wondering if I'm right,  but it seems that men seem to like Bruce's songs more than women.  Mind you there aren't a lot of females on this board...   My daughter and I don't like Bruces songs, think they are sappy.  Mike, you stating what your wife thinks made me think of it again.  It's a massive generalisation I know, and probably wrong,  but I am surprised at all the love.    Mind you, I live in Australia where men are not especially open in the "emotions" department.  This generation seem to be a lot better though.  Again.... this is a massive generalisation, but true of most of my male friends.

What you say it interesting about the generalities in different countries with regard to men's responses to music that can be emotive.  In some countries it seems more acceptable than others.  There is so much to choose from with this music, that there seems to be something for everyone.  I like his music, because it captures a perspective and point-of-view or a sort of vantage point that men often can't or are encouraged not to express, because the culture doesn't allow for it, and that articulates things that can happen in a woman's life, whether it is "moving on" post a long-term relationship, as in She Believes in Love Again, or finding a place of yesteryear, with Disney Girls, and, yet, I find it similar, genre-wise, to some of the Pet Sounds stuff such as I'm Waiting for the Day or You Still Believe in Me. 

And, I find his stuff closer to Brian's work than the other band members, in terms of "sensibility," (not the American context) and find it gives those albums, particularly Surf's Up balance alongside the more "rock" derived work. 

[joe_blow]

My friend Bob, he has a job.