After 50+ years, what's the final verdict on Mike Love?

[SMiLE Brian]

What is wrong is one of the members is touring a group that pales in comparison to the C50 lineup at venues that don't deserve the BBs name.  While the rest don't use it for those purposes and want to revitalize the group and give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act. If Brian wants to be BB, he has a right because he penned the music behind the lyrics Mike sings.

You've yet to give a coherent reason as to *why* those venues don't deserve to have the band playing there.
If the other band members don't want Mike touring, why haven't they stopped him? The Beach Boys have already had 'one last go as a touring/recording act'. It was last year.
And Brian stepped away from being a touring Beach Boy pretty much from the very beginning, and spent most of the last decade and a half publicly saying he wanted nothing to do with the band. Yet you're arguing that Mike should give up doing a job he enjoys, give up working with the band he's been working with for years, and completely change his entire lifestyle to accomodate the whims of someone who is notoriously unreliable?

My reason is this, the venues Mike and Bruce play are low rent (county fairs, rodeos, and car shows) compared to the great venues they play in the UK. Plus Brian has been more reliable the last decade and hasn't backed out of touring. When I saw Brian with the BBs, he wasn't bored like his solo shows and gave his all like he wanted to be there.

[SMiLE Brian]

...give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act.

Am I missing something here ? I thought that's exactly what they did last year - #3 critically acclaimed album, 73-date tour that got rave reviews.

Why quit at that then, Brian was clearly loving the success of the album and touring.

[AndrewHickey]

My reason is this, the venues Mike and Bruce play are low rent (county fairs, rodeos, and car shows) compared to the great venues they play in the UK.

And? What, exactly, is *actually wrong* with playing those venues? There are people there who want to see the band, they play there, the audience enjoy themselves, the band get paid and (hopefully) enjoy themselves too, Nobody gets hurt. I can't see how that is in any way a bad thing. I wouldn't be especially interested in seeing one of their county fair type shows myself (though for the low ticket prices for those shows I'd definitely go) but a lot of people are, and I can't see that there's anything wrong with performing for those people.

[Andrew G. Doe]

...give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act.

Am I missing something here ? I thought that's exactly what they did last year - #3 critically acclaimed album, 73-date tour that got rave reviews.

Why quit at that then, Brian was clearly loving the success of the album and touring.

Evidently not enough to press the point beyond the LA Times response. OK, maybe wheels are in motion behind the scenes, but scheduling a show in July - and I know, a sample of one is hardly sufficient - indicates that no summer touring is planed for the whole band. We'll see, but I for one strongly doubt it.

[AndrewHickey]

...give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act.

Am I missing something here ? I thought that's exactly what they did last year - #3 critically acclaimed album, 73-date tour that got rave reviews.

Why quit at that then, Brian was clearly loving the success of the album and touring.

The point of 'one last go' is that it's the *last*, Doing more after that is sort of a contradiction of that word 'last', isn't it?

And yes, maybe Brian *was* enjoying the tour. But he *is not the only person involved*.  Even assuming your suppositions about what Brian does and does not want are correct, why should Brian's wishes override those of everyone else involved?

[Andrew G. Doe]

My reason is this, the venues Mike and Bruce play are low rent (county fairs, rodeos, and car shows) compared to the great venues they play in the UK.

Common fallacy being perpetrated here - The Beach Boys also played such 'low rent' venues right up to Carl's passing. It's not solely an M&B phenomenon. More to the point, M&B don't play such places exclusively. I saw them in Lancaster's American Music Theater in 2005. Hardly low rent. Check Eric's setlist archive, you might be surprised... but probably not as it strikes me you're arguing your point from an anti-Mike soapbox. Sorry, but that's what it looks like from where I'm standing.

Edit: here's some 1997 BB shows...

July
  5 - Eagle Crest Aerodrome, Lewes DE
19 - A & P Tennis Tournament, Mahwah NJ

August
21 - Syracuse State Fairgrounds, Syracuse NY
23 - Jones Beach NY
24 - Jones Beach NY

[Cam Mott]

...give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act.

Am I missing something here ? I thought that's exactly what they did last year - #3 critically acclaimed album, 73-date tour that got rave reviews.

Why quit at that then, Brian was clearly loving the success of the album and touring.

'Cuz it ain't all about Brian?

[SMiLE Brian]

...give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act.

Am I missing something here ? I thought that's exactly what they did last year - #3 critically acclaimed album, 73-date tour that got rave reviews.

Why quit at that then, Brian was clearly loving the success of the album and touring.

The point of 'one last go' is that it's the *last*, Doing more after that is sort of a contradiction of that word 'last', isn't it?

And yes, maybe Brian *was* enjoying the tour. But he *is not the only person involved*.  Even assuming your suppositions about what Brian does and does not want are correct, why should Brian's wishes override those of everyone else involved?

He is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not taking sides or wading into this one, but I did want to add this bit of information regarding Sea World, because having been there myself as a little kid when the highlights included "Shamu" the whale and a water skier dressed as Batman or something jumping a ramp while being towed by a speedboat, it didn't immediately seem like the spot for a band to gig.

But it's part of a "season" promotion to get people into the park during a slower time of year, this copied from their website:

Bands, Brew & BBQ
SeaWorld partners with favorite local restaurants to bring sizzling BBQ and an array of thirst-quenching beer in an amazing atmosphere. And of course, incredible concerts with top artists in classic rock and country music. Bands, Brew & BBQ is included with park admission.

Enjoy Bands, Brew & BBQ February 9th - March 17th, 2013.
    Saturday, February 9              Chris Young with Jerrod Niemann
    Sunday, February 10              Merle Haggard
    Saturday, February 16            The Beach Boys
    Sunday, February 17              Styx
    Saturday, February 23            Big & Rich
    Sunday, February 24              Third Eye Blind
    Saturday, March 2                  Daryl Hall & John Oates
    Sunday, March 3                    Darius Rucker and Uncle Kracker
    Saturday, March 9                  Michael McDonald
    Sunday, March 10                  Josh Turner
    Saturday, March 16                TBD
    Sunday, March 17                  Sheryl Crow


Depending on the cost of course, I'd weigh it like this: Brew=85%, Bands=10%, BBQ=5% (any hack backyard cook can do good BBQ in 2013... ) Of course we don't know what kind of brew they're serving, so I might revise the equation accordingly if it's something like Bud, Coors, or Pabst on tap.


I'd laugh if the March 16th "TBD" show turns out to be Brian, David, and Al!

[Cam Mott]

...give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act.

Am I missing something here ? I thought that's exactly what they did last year - #3 critically acclaimed album, 73-date tour that got rave reviews.

Why quit at that then, Brian was clearly loving the success of the album and touring.

The point of 'one last go' is that it's the *last*, Doing more after that is sort of a contradiction of that word 'last', isn't it?

And yes, maybe Brian *was* enjoying the tour. But he *is not the only person involved*.  Even assuming your suppositions about what Brian does and does not want are correct, why should Brian's wishes override those of everyone else involved?

He is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

You can say the same about Mike.

[AndrewHickey]

He is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

He does have a say -- he owns 1/4 of BRI. He just doesn't get to be a dictator and override the other board members -- even assuming he wants to.

[filledeplage]

What is wrong is one of the members is touring a group that pales in comparison to the C50 lineup at venues that don't deserve the BBs name.  While the rest don't use it for those purposes and want to revitalize the group and give the BBs one last go as a touring/recording act. If Brian wants to be BB, he has a right because he penned the music behind the lyrics Mike sings.

You've yet to give a coherent reason as to *why* those venues don't deserve to have the band playing there.
If the other band members don't want Mike touring, why haven't they stopped him? The Beach Boys have already had 'one last go as a touring/recording act'. It was last year.
And Brian stepped away from being a touring Beach Boy pretty much from the very beginning, and spent most of the last decade and a half publicly saying he wanted nothing to do with the band. Yet you're arguing that Mike should give up doing a job he enjoys, give up working with the band he's been working with for years, and completely change his entire lifestyle to accomodate the whims of someone who is notoriously unreliable?

My reason is this, the venues Mike and Bruce play are low rent (county fairs, rodeos, and car shows) compared to the great venues they play in the UK. Plus Brian has been more reliable the last decade and hasn't backed out of touring. When I saw Brian with the BBs, he wasn't bored like his solo shows and gave his all like he wanted to be there.

Many of those "low rent" venues are actually resort area venues, that regularly host low renters such as Darius Rucker, Chicago, etc.  They are in pretty elite company.  I'm trying to figure out and know what you are talking about while watching the Inauguration.

Brian has shown enthusiasm in his solo shows.  The "group" needs to arrive at a consensus.  This might be a hybrid situation.  They are all adults and can make this decision without fan input, I think.  JMHO

[Andrew G. Doe]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

[Smilin Ed H]

I liked his Manet period the best:

http://fridaynightboys300.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/edouard-manet-at-royal-academy.html

[urbanite]

I'm more than a little curious to know how difficult Brian and "his people" are to deal with.   

[SMiLE Brian]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

It doesn't but Brian would probably have Al and Carl's estate on his side if needed.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'd laugh if the March 16th "TBD" show turns out to be Brian, David, and Al!

Oh, that'd be so awesomely funny, but that would also pretty much state the band is finished.

[KittyKat]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

It doesn't but Brian would probably have Al and Carl's estate on his side if needed.

Well, Brian did have Carl's estate on his side the last time he voted. When he voted to give the rights to Mike Love. Brian wanted the $ that Mike's willingness to tour 100+ dates a year brought to his personal coffers. Whether that's changed is a matter of when and if the rights come up for a vote again. Carl's estate might still vote with Mike if it did come down to Mike versus Brian, because Carl's heirs no doubt like getting money that's both greater and more reliable than depending on Brian touring with the Beach Boys. Brian requires more expenses (demands a larger band, wants his own tour bus), and there's little chance he would make as many dates as Mike usually does.  

It's also debatable if the Beach Boys could sustain a career of touring large venues. They're not exactly the Eagles or Bon Jovi in terms of popularity.  As fdp pointed out, the Beach Boys with Mike do play some expensive venues. I don't know where people get the idea they only play tiny little shows and fairs. Their gigs vary in size and venues, and some of the places they play they get ticket prices of over $50. Not to mention they play some very lucrative private gigs for corporations and rich peoples' birthday parties.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

It doesn't but Brian would probably have Al and Carl's estate on his side if needed.

Carl's estate, definitely. With Al, I guess it might depend on what day you catch him on! The fact that Brian has not pushed the issue, though, probably has to do with what KK just posted.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

It doesn't but Brian would probably have Al and Carl's estate on his side if needed.

If Brian has Al and Carl's estate on his side when needed, then that would mean he gets what he wants from BRI, since their three votes could always overrule Mike's one.  Which means that he must not currently want to amend the agreement allowing Mike to tour without him, because he, Al, and Carl's estate haven't moved to change it.

[AndrewHickey]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

It doesn't but Brian would probably have Al and Carl's estate on his side if needed.

If Brian has Al and Carl's estate on his side when needed, then that would mean he gets what he wants from BRI, since their three votes could always overrule Mike's one.  Which means that he must not currently want to amend the agreement allowing Mike to tour without him, because he, Al, and Carl's estate haven't moved to change it.

There you go using facts and logic. Don't you know that Evil Mike Love outvoted the others 1-3 so he could play county fairs for the rest of his life just to make Brian cry? He doesn't even have the legal right to tour as the Beach Boys on his own at all -- he just lies to the others and tells them the show starts three hours later than it does, so Al, Brian and David keep showing up at eleven p.m. to shows and playing to an empty hall, wondering why there's no audience. He's a bad, bad man, and must be punished, obviously.

[Cam Mott]

Just imagine if Mike claimed he would abide by BRI's license requirements and then wouldn't and didn't and wrote up his own license with him as the sole signator giving himself a much lower license fee rate then he had agreed to and took off booking concerts using the licensed trademark and sued his bandmate over it to boot. Be just like that jerk, right?

[duquephart]

Would it not make sense that the "estate" vote would go to whichever faction looked to have the best chance of bringing in the most money to the collective coffers? Do the people controlling the "estate" vote have any loyalties other than income? It would also be interesting to know if the so called "Love License" can be revoked at any time assuming the votes are there. My guess is that if BW really wanted to fire up a show and go touring as the Beachboys he would figure out a way to do so.

[Cam Mott]

Would it not make sense that the "estate" vote would go to whichever faction looked to have the best chance of bringing in the most money to the collective coffers? Do the people controlling the "estate" vote have any loyalties other than income? It would also be interesting to know if the so called "Love License" can be revoked at any time assuming the votes are there. My guess is that if BW really wanted to fire up a show and go touring as the Beachboys he would figure out a way to do so.

I don't know what the term of the license agreement is but according to court records it is decided by a majority vote. It did not seem that Carl's estate was bound by anything but their conscience/good sense. In the past Brian and Carl's Estate has wanted Mike to have the license. They were willing let Al have a license also but Al couldn't play nice and so they voted him off the license. If Brian wanted it I imagine he could get it some how but it seems to me Brian still wants Mike to have it and the responsibility even if he disagree with Mike over this and that but not enough to do anything about it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just imagine if Mike claimed he would abide by BRI's license requirements and then wouldn't and didn't and wrote up his own license with him as the sole signator giving himself a much lower license fee rate then he had agreed to and took off booking concerts using the licensed trademark and sued his bandmate over it to boot. Be just like that jerk, right?

Can't imagine anyone doing that...