After 50+ years, what's the final verdict on Mike Love?

[SMiLE Brian]

He [Brian] is willing and able to be a BB again, which hasn't happened in decades. He helped make the group famous with his hard work back in the 1960s, shouldn't he have a say about the future.

Of course... as one-quarter of Brother Records Inc. You're saying that Mike shouldn't have sole say over what happens, but apparently think that Brian should, purely because he is Brian Wilson. BRI don't work that way.

It doesn't but Brian would probably have Al and Carl's estate on his side if needed.

If Brian has Al and Carl's estate on his side when needed, then that would mean he gets what he wants from BRI, since their three votes could always overrule Mike's one.  Which means that he must not currently want to amend the agreement allowing Mike to tour without him, because he, Al, and Carl's estate haven't moved to change it.

There you go using facts and logic. Don't you know that Evil Mike Love outvoted the others 1-3 so he could play county fairs for the rest of his life just to make Brian cry? He doesn't even have the legal right to tour as the Beach Boys on his own at all -- he just lies to the others and tells them the show starts three hours later than it does, so Al, Brian and David keep showing up at eleven p.m. to shows and playing to an empty hall, wondering why there's no audience. He's a bad, bad man, and must be punished, obviously.

My quote had the phrase "if needed" in it, Just tar and feather me as a "brianista" already.

[Sheriff John Stone]

If Brian Wilson was NOT receiving a large monetary deposit electronically transferred into his checking account every time Mike & Bruce performed a concert, do you think HE would think twice about re-visiting the licensing issue?

duquephart raised a good question about Dennis's and Carl's estate votes. Go with me on this...What if Dennis was alive today, semi-retired, only occasionally dabbling in music, and Carl was also semi-retired, not performing, just doing the occasional session work. How do you think Dennis and Carl would vote if they would each receive a check for every show that Mike & Bruce played? It's tempting to answer with your gut reaction, but think about it.

[SMiLE Brian]

If Brian Wilson was NOT receiving a large monetary deposit electronically transferred into his checking account every time Mike & Bruce performed a concert, do you think HE would think twice about re-visiting the licensing issue?

duquephart raised a good question about Dennis's and Carl's estate votes. Go with me on this...What if Dennis was alive today, semi-retired, only occasionally dabbling in music, and Carl was also semi-retired, not performing, just doing the occasional session work. How do you think Dennis and Carl would vote if they would each receive a check for every show that Mike & Bruce played? It's tempting to answer with your gut reaction, but think about it.

I don't know what they would do because they died far too soon and this whole BRI deal might have never happened because things might have been totally different.

[AndrewHickey]

My quote had the phrase "if needed" in it, Just tar and feather me as a "brianista" already.

You've also been arguing that it *is* needed, because apparently Brian is desperate to perform with the Beach Boys again. And yet you've also been arguing that despite the 'facts' that Brian would have those votes if he needed them, and that he does need them, Mike's still going against Brian's wishes. The only logical way to reconcile these positions is to assume that Mike can outvote the other board members 1-3.

Of course, even if Brian *did* desperately want to tour with the Beach Boys, and the rest of the board voted with him, what do people think would happen if Mike simply said "Well, I'm not touring with the others. Take my license away if you want, but I'm simply not going to do it. I don't want to work with those people" ? Are you really arguing that he should be forced to tour with the others against his will?

[SMiLE Brian]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name. Neither could any of the other members.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Exactly.

[Cam Mott]

I know, right?

[Cam Mott]

The other's had their chance to have the license already. Brian and Carl's estate wanted Mike to have an exclusive license from the beginning. Al made a stink and Carl's Estate convinced Brian to give Brian and Al non-exclusive licenses. Brian never did anything with his. Al shot himself in the foot and got his voted away by Brian and Carl's estate who wanted Mike to have an exclusive license. Despite all the windbagging in the press, it looks to me like they still want Mike to have the license.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can.  It's part of a BRI agreement that Brian voted for.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can.  It's part of a BRI agreement that Brian voted for.

No, he can't - Mike's license is exclusive, as stated below. And Brian - or Brian's representative - voted for this state of affairs. Monetary concerns aside, Brian summed up his position on this quite nicely in an interview some years ago when pressed on the then-current touring scenario: "Well, Mike & Bruce are The Beach Boys, and Alan is Alan Jardine... but I'm Brian Wilson !"

You can almost see the big grin. 

[SMiLE Brian]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can.  It's part of a BRI agreement that Brian voted for.

I meant by that statement thats how things SHOULD be. But I am done fighting this in this thread for now.

[Andrew G. Doe]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can should be able to...

I meant by that statement thats how things SHOULD be. But I am done fighting this in this thread for now.

FTFY. 

[SMiLE Brian]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can should be able to...

I meant by that statement thats how things SHOULD be. But I am done fighting this in this thread for now.

FTFY. 

How come you can edit other people's posts while runnersdialzero nearly got banned over it?

[Andrew G. Doe]

'Cause I'm not doing it with the intent of altering the meaning ?  I'm also far from being the first person to do it like that.

[drbeachboy]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can.  It's part of a BRI agreement that Brian voted for.

I meant by that statement thats how things SHOULD be. But I am done fighting this in this thread for now.

Really, there is nothing to fight about. How we feel about this doesn't matter. It is a business decision that BRI has agreed to, and it is how it is going to be, whether we like it or not.

[SMiLE Brian]

'Cause I'm not doing it with the intent of altering the meaning ?  I'm also far from being the first person to do it like that.

Fair enough, smile-holland seemed pretty ironclad about it to RDZ.

[filledeplage]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can.  It's part of a BRI agreement that Brian voted for.

I meant by that statement thats how things SHOULD be. But I am done fighting this in this thread for now.

SMiLE Brian - you are a very passionate fan!  Sure could have used your commitment in the late 60's and early 70's!  What happened in the BB family, was very sad indeed and those members are incapable of replacement.  As a fan, I feel very proud of the way Brian carried on so courageously after he lost his brothers and embarked on a solo career. The governing board, by its design, that was the vision for the business, and not a fan department. It kept the music alive, for the emerging generations to embrace.  Going back to those early days, the fledgling Bands, all had to start from Ground Zero, without Carl.  In their own way, each has honored one another.

Venues are tricky and putting these shows together is an enormous effort.  What is important is that filling a venue, even a small one is more advantageous to half-filling a more prestigious one.  The reviewers can call it a "sell out." The organizers can call it a business success and "re-invite" a band or whatever event it is, for another performance.  Even funky old theaters which were the top shelf in their heydays can be a grand venue.  Some of the most enthusiastic shows I've seen have happened with an electric crowd, in a less than fancy venue.  

Frankly, I look at this differently, having seen all them in many venues, over time, and I do see them back together, in the future, after working in whichever formula they designate.  I feel this way, because they still have more to offer creatively and the bonds are still strong.  Often in school, when you have twins or triplets, they are sent to different classrooms so they can grow independently, and at the end of the school day, they can compare notes, and re-bond, better for the temporary separation, but with the synergy intact. That might sound like a crazy analogy, but they are mostly family, either genetically, or from being band mates for so long and I taught school for a long time.

The "special occasion" theme of the 50th really worked for them, I think.  And there are many more "special commemorations" historically they might choose to celebrate.  My personal plan is to continue to enjoy the music, in whatever venue, or formula they offer, as it has always worked for me, in the past.  

Most of us have strong opinions about stuff, and it comes from a sincere place.  But the "big picture" of what is going to work for "everyone" involved is what "they"have to work out ultimately.   I think it will all work out.  

[guitarfool2002]

I think it might gnaw at some fans on either side when the issue of Mike doing all the live work and touring his ass off, i.e. "working" while Brian and everyone else reaps the financial benefits can be easily explained and (mercifully) put to rest by saying "He agreed to it" under the BRI legal agreement. Yet that same explanation is also used to answer whenever someone mentions Brian or Al touring or not touring in any way as "The Beach Boys", and why they should or shouldn't have the right to do so - They agreed to it, end of story.

My point is, the notion that Mike is working hard while Brian and Al collect from that "work" for sitting at home and touring on the side under their own names is as silly to me as trying to say Al has a right to tour under the name "The Beach Boys" after signing away that right - with conditions - to Mike Love.

So anyone who tries to suggest one member working hard while the others are loafing, just say "He agreed to it."

And I'm also wondering what the future stipulations of these agreements might be, suggesting these men will not be around forever and where will the legacy of the name be placed? Who if anyone will get the rights? Children, grandchildren, backing musicians? Look at the example of touring big bands like "The Glen Miller Orchestra" who own rights to the name and the original book of songs some 6 or 7 decades after the original name passed away.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I don't know that Mike looks on it as 'work' per se. Consider:

It gets him around the world in some comfort...

It keeps him fitter than most 71 year olds...

It makes a huge number of folk very happy for a few hours...

He gets to sing some of the best pop songs ever written.

And in the bargain, his cousins and a former band-mate also profit. If it was Brian doing all this, hell, the Blooies would have him up for the Nobel Prize for Sheer Awesomeness.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think it might gnaw at some fans on either side when the issue of Mike doing all the live work and touring his ass off, i.e. "working" while Brian and everyone else reaps the financial benefits can be easily explained and (mercifully) put to rest by saying "He agreed to it" under the BRI legal agreement. Yet that same explanation is also used to answer whenever someone mentions Brian or Al touring or not touring in any way as "The Beach Boys", and why they should or shouldn't have the right to do so - They agreed to it, end of story.

My point is, the notion that Mike is working hard while Brian and Al collect from that "work" for sitting at home and touring on the side under their own names is as silly to me as trying to say Al has a right to tour under the name "The Beach Boys" after signing away that right - with conditions - to Mike Love.

So anyone who tries to suggest one member working hard while the others are loafing, just say "He agreed to it."

While I agree with what you're saying, I also think it is moving FROM "He agreed to it" TO "He can change it". Here's one of the oldest cliches in the book - actions speak louder than words. So, we have quotes from Brian and Al about what they would like to do. We can debate the sincerity of the quotes and how long they stand by the quotes - meaning that Brian has been known to change his mind.

I think the debate is now in the "WHAT are they doing about it" stage.

[Cam Mott]

I think it might gnaw at some fans on either side when the issue of Mike doing all the live work and touring his ass off, i.e. "working" while Brian and everyone else reaps the financial benefits can be easily explained and (mercifully) put to rest by saying "He agreed to it" under the BRI legal agreement. Yet that same explanation is also used to answer whenever someone mentions Brian or Al touring or not touring in any way as "The Beach Boys", and why they should or shouldn't have the right to do so - They agreed to it, end of story.

My point is, the notion that Mike is working hard while Brian and Al collect from that "work" for sitting at home and touring on the side under their own names is as silly to me as trying to say Al has a right to tour under the name "The Beach Boys" after signing away that right - with conditions - to Mike Love.

So anyone who tries to suggest one member working hard while the others are loafing, just say "He agreed to it."

And I'm also wondering what the future stipulations of these agreements might be, suggesting these men will not be around forever and where will the legacy of the name be placed? Who if anyone will get the rights? Children, grandchildren, backing musicians? Look at the example of touring big bands like "The Glen Miller Orchestra" who own rights to the name and the original book of songs some 6 or 7 decades after the original name passed away.

The conditions etc. were all set and agreed to by all members in 1993. They agreed to it. [runs]

[guitarfool2002]

Right! They all agreed to it, for sure. 

Any thoughts on what may be in that agreement going forward, as in where the rights to tour or play under that name might fall as various members get older and stop touring?

[duquephart]

Was (future) licensing of the brand anticipated in 1993? And, at least insofar as the licensing "agreement", I would imagine that agreeing to anything is not the same as getting outvoted.

[Cam Mott]

Was (future) licensing of the brand anticipated in 1993? And, at least insofar as the licensing "agreement", I would imagine that agreeing to anything is not the same as getting outvoted.

Apparently. Not a license to one holder though I presume. The payment structure for/from touring was set at the same time.

I presume the license may go to the offspring when none of the principals wish to tour anymore. I'm guessing the license will be Mike's until Mike desires it no more.

[smilethebeachboysloveyou]

If he wants to tour solo without the others,he can't use the BBs name.

I think we've been over this before, but he can.  It's part of a BRI agreement that Brian voted for.

No, he can't - Mike's license is exclusive, as stated below. And Brian - or Brian's representative - voted for this state of affairs. Monetary concerns aside, Brian summed up his position on this quite nicely in an interview some years ago when pressed on the then-current touring scenario: "Well, Mike & Bruce are The Beach Boys, and Alan is Alan Jardine... but I'm Brian Wilson !"

You can almost see the big grin. 

Sorry, I was confused.  I thought that the "he" in SMiLE Brian's sentence referred to ML.