Brian to play with Al and David, July in Ohio

[Sheriff John Stone]

I basically agree with with your excellent post, Wirestone. I suppose there will always be debate, especially on message boards, about the percentages of the different contributions that you mentioned. While Brian did contribute in the ways you noted, the amounts of the contributions will always be open for debate. Maybe I've been worn down or burned too many times, but most of what I read about Brian these days is met with skepticism. We do agree on the Mike issues that you posted, however.

[the professor]

I don't think the process of recording TWGMTR -- or any of BW's solo records, really -- is that secret. It's always surrounded by gauzy layers of hype, but if you read enough interviews, note the pointed comment or two, and connect the dots, it tends to be pretty easy.

In the case of BW's solo records, he has largely contributed by making demos (sometimes full fledged ones) and watching as his band re-created them in the studio. Sometimes he's written charts and been very involved, sometimes he's let the guys do it as he napped. At times, he has definitely been bored (sometimes for entire records!) and approved non-representative work.

From the sound of it, you have a little of all of the above in TWGMTR. A handful of tracks with indisputable BW touches, some that we can argue about, and several more that I doubt he did more than vaguely nod at. And while he most likely arranged vocals, he never did it in a hands-on way with the group -- the best accounts behind the scenes suggest that Foskett sang BW-dictated parts one by one and the guys came in separately to re-create his tracks. For someone like Mike, this was doubtless arid and deadening. Nothing like the 60s, regardless of the happy talk they had to spout in interviews.

The one full-fledged collaboration seems to have been Isn't It Time, which Mike tried mightily to turn into a hit. But the fussy, overworked single version suggested that the magic was truly fleeting. Maybe only a day or two, early in 2012.

The muses gripped ol' Wirestone for this post; he is devastatingly on; Al himself said they did not do the old "all the boys around the mic" thing as in the past, and those promotional videos are all staged. "It doesn't matter," says Bruce in one of them, because it's only for show. This is why the Professor and others are longing for more and for what we can embrace as a much more "real" BB album. IIT, despite its various iterations and catchy groove, still is not in any viably complete state. The bridge is still lyrically and musically incoherent; the live performances awkward and confused in that bridge. I loved the song, but they failed at it ultimately. Wirestone, I am listening for when enthusiasmos  gets you again, though I wish you were not so correct.

[HeyJude]

I don't think the process of recording TWGMTR -- or any of BW's solo records, really -- is that secret. It's always surrounded by gauzy layers of hype, but if you read enough interviews, note the pointed comment or two, and connect the dots, it tends to be pretty easy.

In the case of BW's solo records, he has largely contributed by making demos (sometimes full fledged ones) and watching as his band re-created them in the studio. Sometimes he's written charts and been very involved, sometimes he's let the guys do it as he napped. At times, he has definitely been bored (sometimes for entire records!) and approved non-representative work.

From the sound of it, you have a little of all of the above in TWGMTR. A handful of tracks with indisputable BW touches, some that we can argue about, and several more that I doubt he did more than vaguely nod at. And while he most likely arranged vocals, he never did it in a hands-on way with the group -- the best accounts behind the scenes suggest that Foskett sang BW-dictated parts one by one and the guys came in separately to re-create his tracks. For someone like Mike, this was doubtless arid and deadening. Nothing like the 60s, regardless of the happy talk they had to spout in interviews.

The one full-fledged collaboration seems to have been Isn't It Time, which Mike tried mightily to turn into a hit. But the fussy, overworked single version suggested that the magic was truly fleeting. Maybe only a day or two, early in 2012.

Excellent post! I think this does a great job of getting more into some of the non-obvious reasons Mike would prefer to do his own tour. I think the finances and control are huge factors. But your comments speak to some other reasons why Mike may well have not been as "sold" on the reunion as the others.

Based on recounting in the Rolling Stone article, Mike felt disconnected from some of the album. It seems he was grafting some additional lyrics onto stuff more than "collaborating."

The whole band did seem to appear to have some distance from the album as compared to Brian. On the one hand, this seems like a "Pet Sounds" era sort of setup where Brian writes and the group comes in to sing. But in this case on the new album, they seem to indeed have often simply finessed vocals already prepped by Brian and Foskett, and that's not even getting into how a big hunk of the musical backing tracks on this album had absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the group (which has been the case to varying degrees in the past as well of course). It was great seeing David Marks integrated into the project, but I can honestly say that if you had told me David wasn't on the album at all, I would have probably believed it. He's vocally not evident at all, and while perhaps big Marks fans can spot his guitar style, his musicianship was not readily evident either. Bottom line, I think the whole spectacle of the reunion movitated them to push through and put the album together. I somehow wonder if, say, Mike or Bruce really feel "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" is a great song.

[the professor]

I am near despair, but the truth can have that effect. Ironically, Bruce's vocals are the best thing about that silly novelty song (PLOBAS). If the mythic fiction of "Radio" is keeping Mike at arms length on the future, I don't blame him. As for David, listen to his solo work and his guitar on Radio will jump out at you--the nose to the toes rhythm (title cut) and the twangy, discordant lilt (Summer's Gone/Strange World). I am still waiting for real liner notes. He's the only BB playing a damned note on the album whistling aside), that is worth something.

Please boys, let Jeff and JT sit it out and go into the studio alone or with Alan Boyd or Steve D and just woodshed until we get a real BB album--even if that means a BB album like no other.  And when I say real I do not mean that PS is not a "real" BB album, I am talking about the art that I believe these men can create together now. Anything short of that is unreal and constructed, as Radio is, but not born.

[Mikie]

Wirestone and Jude might be onto something there.

Not to derail, but was it ever established why Dave was brought in late on the "Do It Again" video? Remember, he wasn't on the first video and there was a second revision and they later re-did it or edited him in after the fact? What was the deal on that - did he sign the contract late after pre-season try-outs, or was there a simple contract issue or he couldn't make the video shoot or what? That was a little peculiar.

[the professor]

Wirestone and Jude might be onto something there.

Not to derail, but was it ever established why Dave was brought in late on the "Do It Again" video? Remember, he wasn't on the first video and there was a second revision and they later re-did it or edited him in after the fact? What was the deal on that - did he sign the contract late after pre-season try-outs, or was there a simple contract issue or he couldn't make the video shoot or what? That was a little peculiar.

The story, such as it is, from bits of information here and there is that they went into the studio to see if any of this working together had any potential and that once they felt confident about it, Brian told Mike he wanted Dave's "energy" on the song and thus, we assume, in the total reunion. Thus Dave replaced the existing rhythm and lead tracks Scott, et al  did (I am sure he humbly bowed out) and the official reunion video was born. Not sure what Mikie is getting at beyond this, but I am listening to you all closely here. Thank you.

[Mikie]

No, I wasn't trying to make any points or play connect the dots, it was just a random thought and I always wondered about it. A little surprising that Dave was brought in later after they had already cut the track (and/or the video). I assume that it was already agreed upon at that point that Dave was going to be in the C50 road band and play on some album cuts in the studio.

[Jim V.]

Sheriff and Wirestone, interesting takes on the situation. I think you both might be onto something. I definitely think there is something up with the Brian and Mike relationship, at least professionally. I wouldn't doubt that Mike wants more of a creative role in a possible next album, if he even wants to do another album. I agree that maybe he finally did the whole reuniting with Brian thing, and it wasn't as great as he hoped, so now he's back to what he was doing before. Who knows? And he might not get along great with Al still. And maybe he thinks Brian is too controlled by his "people". Which is kinda amusing though, because if Mike had his way, he would likely try to "control" Brian in his own way, to his own end.

Wirestone and Jude might be onto something there.

Not to derail, but was it ever established why Dave was brought in late on the "Do It Again" video? Remember, he wasn't on the first video and there was a second revision and they later re-did it or edited him in after the fact? What was the deal on that - did he sign the contract late after pre-season try-outs, or was there a simple contract issue or he couldn't make the video shoot or what? That was a little peculiar.

Let's be honest about this.

When the guys decided to do a "test drive" for the reunion and record "Do It Again", the obvious four showed up. For this to be a true Beach Boys reunion, one knew they had to have Brian and Mike there. And despite possible bad blood with Mike, you knew Al had to be there. With him too, it would be hard to conceive of a Beach Boys reunion in 2012 without Al Jardine. And then Bruce. Was his part in the reunion essential? Probably not. But people recognize him from the "Kokomo" video, he's Mike's right-hand man, and he's from the classic "arty" era. So you have four Beach Boys. Just like (for all intents and purposes), the late '80s and early '90s, but with Brian instead of Carl.  And the public accepted that as The Beach Boys then, whether we like it or not. So they go cut "Do It Again", film the promo, and maybe work on some new stuff. Likely somebody (possibly named Jon Stebbins) communicated to somebody in the semi-inner circle that it would be pretty neat to include David Marks, since he is an actual Beach Boy, and played on some awesome sh*t. And so he was in. But I don't think for a second that Dave's presence in the reunion was anything more than an afterthought. Same goes for his presence in the album. I personally am unsure if he would have added or subtracted to my enjoyment of the album, but I suppose it woulda been cool if he had more of a chance to shine.

[the professor]

The Sweetdude (who is always wise and delights The Professor with his insight),
Instead of branding Dave an "afterthought" (a potentially dismissive and pejorative term), I see what we all here recount as simply as the sequence of historical events that led to "putting the band back together," to invoke the classic archetype. 

The notion of "afterthought" in this context is a red herring. They thought of him and he came in "after" the video, after the tracks of the album, etc. No need to foreground the term as if to disprove any other assertion that he did not enter when he entered. . . .

What I am taking away from all our Friday night comments is that we want a full-on BB album, such as the realities and state of being is in 2013 because we wonder what in high holy heaven such an album would sound like. Radio did not answer that question last year. Or rather, we find its answer provisional,  incomplete , and corrupted by illusion.

[Jim V.]

Thanks for the props professor, and even though you are bummed, remember this....

David Beard was on here recently and seemed quite sure about the guys recording together this year. I assume he knows what he's talking about. So there is hope.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I don't think the process of recording TWGMTR -- or any of BW's solo records, really -- is that secret. It's always surrounded by gauzy layers of hype, but if you read enough interviews, note the pointed comment or two, and connect the dots, it tends to be pretty easy.

In the case of BW's solo records, he has largely contributed by making demos (sometimes full fledged ones) and watching as his band re-created them in the studio. Sometimes he's written charts and been very involved, sometimes he's let the guys do it as he napped. At times, he has definitely been bored (sometimes for entire records!) and approved non-representative work.

From the sound of it, you have a little of all of the above in TWGMTR. A handful of tracks with indisputable BW touches, some that we can argue about, and several more that I doubt he did more than vaguely nod at. And while he most likely arranged vocals, he never did it in a hands-on way with the group -- the best accounts behind the scenes suggest that Foskett sang BW-dictated parts one by one and the guys came in separately to re-create his tracks. For someone like Mike, this was doubtless arid and deadening. Nothing like the 60s, regardless of the happy talk they had to spout in interviews.

The one full-fledged collaboration seems to have been Isn't It Time, which Mike tried mightily to turn into a hit. But the fussy, overworked single version suggested that the magic was truly fleeting. Maybe only a day or two, early in 2012.

Bazinga !

[the professor]

Friday night with a bunch of strange(r) BB fans--couldn't be a better night. Thanks to all. Please let's hear from DB or anyone about a new album soon (the spell checker first gave me "doom"--perhaps a bad omen). . . . .

[Mikie]

So they go cut "Do It Again", film the promo, and maybe work on some new stuff. Likely somebody (possibly named Jon Stebbins) communicated to somebody in the semi-inner circle that it would be pretty neat to include David Marks, since he is an actual Beach Boy, and played on some awesome sh*t. And so he was in. But I don't think for a second that Dave's presence in the reunion was anything more than an afterthought. Same goes for his presence in the album. I personally am unsure if he would have added or subtracted to my enjoyment of the album, but I suppose it woulda been cool if he had more of a chance to shine.

OK, it's Saturday morning now and if we've got the nerve, let's take it all the way to Deadman's Curve.

Seems to me the way Dave was brought into the fold after the video was shot and a track or two was already recorded may have been discussed previously. You're probably right, Jim! Maybe Jon could confirm here. Or not.........

I'm just really glad Dave was included. It was a no-brainer to me.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm glad too. Dave's awesome

[Pretty Funky]

I think it is a mix. The initial DIA recording was to see if the guys could work together. Didn't it get reported that it was done in a matter of hours? Brian also got the guys around the piano for a trial of 'Think About The Days' as I recall.

As the C50 tour started to evolve, I firmly believe the DIA video's main purpose was to market the group to promoters, and in turn us, that here was a active band again. As Dave was going to be part of that touring group, he had to be added to the video.


Although it seems a silly concept now, imagine the whole tour PR/ media/ interviews if Dave had not been invited? Hell, he had more Hawthorne in him than just about everyone onstage and more musical chops than the other core members.

[AndrewHickey]

Although it seems a silly concept now, imagine the whole tour PR/ media/ interviews if Dave had not been invited? Hell, he had more Hawthorne in him than just about everyone onstage and more musical chops than the other core members.

I don't think it would have made a difference, PR-wise. The narrative in the media about him, to the extent there is one at all, is "the Beach Boys' Pete Best" and "the man who briefly replaced Al Jardine when he went off to dental school". Most of the coverage I saw was primarily focused on Brian, with Mike as a secondary consideration and the others a long way behind.

[Pretty Funky]

I beg to differ. Its been covered on this board many times that Dave was no Pete Best. The first 5 albums, original signatory to Capitol etc. Also anyone who went to a C50 gig now knows that he can play. If the media didn't pick that up they failed.

I don't recall reading the 'Pete Best' comparrison anywhere?

[I. Spaceman]

The media isn't interested in Al Jardine, let alone David Marks.

[AndrewHickey]

I beg to differ. Its been covered on this board many times that Dave was no Pete Best. The first 5 albums, original signatory to Capitol etc.

This board is not the same as the media.

[Pretty Funky]

No. But as I said, if the media has not picked up on Daves contribution, from this site or (and I know its hard for them) a little research, they failed.


When I refer to media, I'm meaning the same head-line lowlife that screamed Mike Love sacks Brian, Al and Dave back in September. Am I being insulting to serious journalists perhaps?

[DonnyL]

Most of the iconic images of the band include 5 members ... I think Dave made it feel more complete. And they needed an authentic, legit guitar hero ... they got one with him.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Most of the iconic images of the band include 5 members ... I think Dave made it feel more complete. And they needed an authentic, legit guitar hero ... they got one with him.

I agree.

When I refer to media, I'm meaning the same head-line lowlife that screamed Mike Love sacks Brian, Al and Dave back in September. Am I being insulting to serious journalists perhaps

Serious journalists wouldn't make that mistake;sadly the quality of music journalism has gone down. Bunch of yellow tabloid garbage.

[Justin]

Nice one Wirestone!

[Sheriff John Stone]

Bottom line, I think the whole spectacle of the reunion movitated them to push through and put the album together. I somehow wonder if, say, Mike or Bruce really feel "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" is a great song.

I don't know about Bruce, but thoughts were probably flowing through Mike like "and people object to MY lyrics?" and "we got back together to have Brian write songs with Joe Thomas?" and, maybe most importantly, "Brian and I could've written a better song".

HeyJude, you used the term "push through". I think I know what you mean by that and I don't want to over-dramatize it, but I'm wondering if Mike doesn't want to "push" anymore?

[Wirestone]

Life with Brian is a passive-aggressive thrill ride, with a mentally ill man who constantly changes his mind, is out of it a significant part of the time, and yet at crucial points knows exactly what's going on and what buttons to push to make you absolutely crazy.

I have been disappointed with Mike's decision not to continue the tour for artistic reasons and my own personal preferences. But getting into his head on the reunion issue has never been that difficult.