The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.fraze.com/brian-wilson/

YEAH! Excellent news. There'll be more original Beach Boys on that stage than in the current touring group, crazy. Hope they put on a good show and utilise Dave and Al to their full potential.

I WILL DEF BE THERE!

Tix are relatively cheap, being from Indiana, I'm so happy! I never know when's the last time I'll ever see BW in concert.

Verrrrrrry interesting!

(http://i47.tinypic.com/k4fkat.png)

Wow! Well, there we go ...

just down the river from me...i'll be there...

Oh sh*t, the Blooies are all gonna have multiple orgasms.

 :lol I was waiting for the snark! When that snark bites...with his teeth, dear...

All kidding aside, it'll be fascinating to see the set list, the presentation, et al. Might be like last year, only different. Intrigue commences forthwith.

I'd love it if this line-up became a permanent one. If the reunion line-up can't stay together (as it very obviously can't) then having Al with Brian's band seems the ideal solution. I do hope this line-up plays Europe, though I would be very surprised if they do more than a tiny number of shows.

Yeah, there we go. The writing's on the wall for there being less likely of another tour with all of the band.  It'll probably be the Brian Wilson band with Al and Dave playing the greatest hits. Still be cool though. Ha Ha Ha! Tickets go on sale for a gig 6 months from now.

I like that "Happy Together Tour"! I'd like to see that!! Flo and Eddie and Chuck Negron doing 3 Mutt Night songs. Is Negron sober these days?

I wonder if David and Al will get to play some of their own songs but I doubt it

I am 50 miles to the south and I will be there!
$55 for the best seats is very reasonable.

When Al toured with Brian briefly in 2006/7 he got to sing California Saga, so I imagine that may make the set. I suppose it's possible All This Is That might be included, too, since that was the only other Al composition to make the reunion tour setlist, and Brian seemed to really get into that one at times.

I think All This is That was Mike's idea, Mike & Bruce were doing it before the reunion.

How about David taking over "Desert Drive"???

Can he be advertised as Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys without legal problems?

As long as he doesn't call the group "The Beach Boys" or include it in the title of the group (like Al did) I think it should be legal. It should be the same as saying "Paul McCartney of the Beatles" but his tours don't actually refer to him as such.

I wish that Al and Dave would get more songs, perhaps many songs. I wasn't that impressed with Brian himself the couple of times I saw him, and that was years ago.  I'd certainly rather see a band where Al gets some leads as opposed to say, Darian or Jeff (and Brian seems to be taking fewer even in his own band, giving more to those other guys). I'd like to hear Al take a crack at "Sail On, Sailor" for instance.  Though I doubt this band will play that many gigs and I don't live in Ohio.

Great to think of those 3 together. But I also hope that this does not preclude or interfere with any other reunion pottential, that is, album or shows, and frankly I think that it does not interfere.

Seeing as your comments are based on seeing Brian twice several years ago, you won't be at all surprised when I say that said comments are worthless. Since then he's upped his game significantly.

Oh, absolutely -- Mike's been doing that in his longer sets for *years*. Just thinking maybe it might be one they've been reminded of having done it live recently. But chances are that if Al does any of his own songs at all, it'll just be California.

 :rock

Since this is the day after my birthday, I will be making the trip from Illinois! Great news!!!

I'm betting on "And Then I Kissed Her" and maybe some of the Pet Sounds tracks.  With David on board, I'd say "Pet Sounds" itself is a cert!

Very happy man here...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Oh, I was only talking about songs Al *wrote* -- I've absolutely no doubt he'll sing Rhonda, Then I Kissed Her and a few others. And yes, it would be ridiculous for them *not* to include Pet Sounds.

That's super cool!  I hope they do more shows across the country.

When I saw Al join Brian in '07 in Oakland, this is what they played. Wouldn't be surprised if they did many of these again, with Dave singing leads on the ones he sang on the 50th tour (like Getcha Back, Don't Back Down, Hawaii).

1. Surfer Girl
2. Hawaii
3. Add Some Music To Your Day
4. Please Let Me Wonder
5. Drive In
6. Then I Kissed Her (Al)
7. Break Away (Brian/Al)
8. Dance, Dance, Dance
9. The Little Girl I Once Knew
10. Do It Again
11. In My Room
12. California Saga: California (Al)
13. Do You Wanna Dance
14. When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)
15. I Get Around
16. California Girls
17. Sail On Sailor
18. Marcella
19. Good Vibrations
20. Johnny B. Goode
21. Help Me Rhonda (Al)
22. Barbara Ann (Brian on bass)
23. Surfin’ USA (Brian on bass)
24. Fun Fun Fun
25. Love And Mercy

And the entire Pet Sounds album in between.

I'd be *astonished* if they did Getcha Back, given that it's a Mike song.

Interesting to see what this suggests about the inter-band dynamics -- this has all the hallmarks of a BW passive-aggressive power play. And if it actually becomes a full-scale summer tour, there will be a lot of press about how this group has more original BBs in it than the band with the name. Mark my words.

I think it'd be great. David sang it very well on last year's tour. Mike's kid sings it in the Mike & Bruce show (when Mike's not singing it). No reason Dave couldn't do it again. Same with Don't Back Down, which is also done on the ML Greatest Hits Tour.

That is great news....

The last suite from TWGMTR album would be nice. Going by Mikes remarks and actions in the summer RS story, he wasn't a huge fan of those tracks. Brians shows they would fit right in.

BTW. Between the few Mike and Bruce shows and the Brian and Al gig since the end of the C50, have any songs from the album been done? No3 'hit album' and all?

Has there ever been an explanation as to why Mike doesn't sing this song anymore, in any incarnation of The Beach Boys? It's not like he's not up to it, vocally...

I just assume it is a chance for his voice to take a break. He does have to take a lot of leads in the Mike and Bruce show.

What show did Dave sing 'Don't Back Down'?

Mike didn't really like his vocal on that song and he wrote it with Dennis in mind for the lead.

Wouldn't be surprised if Al pulls out "Come Go With Me" and/or "Cottonfields" for this gig and others.  Al Jardine mainstays.

Hope they add more dates and make this into a tour. Loved C50 and would love to see Brian/Al/Dave.

Much the way you do when we get dates from the band with one less Beach Boy?

The guy really is the devil, isn't he?

Agreed. And if they make an album, and tour it, it's not good for Mike at all. When Mike agreed to the 50th celebration, he did the "right" thing for the band's legacy - but the wrong thing for himself. He gambled that Brian would do a couple legs, poop out and get tired of everyone, take off - and then Mike would say, "Oh well, I tried" and be "The Beach Boys" again.

Problem being...that didn't happen at all, as we all know. So if Brian, Al and Dave do an album, tour and - because Brian's involved - hit the morning shows and late night shows with new (presumably rock) songs...not good for Mike. He no longer has the "other members have gone, but Mike Love keeps carrying on the Beach Boys legacy" line to lead every phony newspaper write-up. So the irony being that, for Mike - given his apparent motives - the 50th tour was a big mistake; yet, going back to the way things were while the other guys work on new stuff would be an even greater mistake. Classic two wrongs not making a right.

It seems animosity between "camps" has less to do with Mike and Brian and more to do with their people. So, maybe there's the chance each camp will go out and do their stuff this summer - then release MIC in the fall, and hit the studio to do the rock album in the winter for a 2014 tour (similar to the SMiLE Sessions/Reunion/TWGMTR progression). While, personally, I'd still be irked at the irrationality of a band that has LESS Beach Boys than another non-Beach Boys band calling itself "The Beach Boys" - I could live with it if there's more material to follow. That's honestly been my biggest problem with Mike's statements about the current state of the band - not allowing for even the possibility to work as the full band again. Seems more stubborn and mean than "professional."

Source?

Mike and Bruce will be missed but this is GREAT news!

That, sir, is complete and utter bullshit. You patently have no clue regarding the backstage dynamics of the entire Smile/C50 event. I say again, utter bullshit, and uninformed bullshit at that.

Of course they'll do some Pet Sounds tracks - "WIBN", "SJB" and "GOK". Like... the hits ?

Excited about this show, I hope this leads to M&B to drop their game and rejoin the rest as the real BBs.

I take JR's point to be that Mike had every reason to believe that Brian saw touring with the group as a chore that would be out of his system after the summer dates. That's certainly what a lot of folks here (including myself) thought would happen.

I think he is meaning the PS instrumental Dave started most of the 2nd half of the C50 gigs Andrew.

Having a belief is one thing. Stating it as (erroneous) fact is something else. Hands up, I thought the tour wouldn't end with all the principals on stage (for entirely different reasons)... but I wasn't dumb enough to state it as a fact because after a very few gigs it was evident that they were all into it. And stating it retroactively, well...

Who Doe Shot JR! ;D

It's looking like that's not happening  :-\

The Beach Boys of the C50 are all in their later years and IMO deserved all the care and attention to detail a tour of that length deserved. Brian had his own bus according to the RS story. I would not be surprised to hear they had medical staff travelling with them plus a multitude of other staff not to mention the large touring group on stage. It was done right and we loved it.

But for Mike and his stripped down operation it could not meet his market this year. Simple as that I think.

I can hear it now... and it's beautiful!

Either way, I think speculation is getting lightly out of hand after the announcement of one date. A few more, likely. A full tour. less likely, but potentially. Those who say an album is likely are off their rocker personally.

Optimistic as always that they pull some wild flowers into their setlist like Let The Wind Blow, Marcella, Sail On Sailor, On My Way To Sunny California, All This Is That, Til I Die, Lookin At Tomorrow, This Whole World, Honkin Down The Highway (why is this never performed with a loud outragous moog?), Vegetables, You Still Believe In Me, Arent You Glad or I'd Love Just Once To See You ^^

people sure have active imaginations for something 6 months down the road...  :)

Wow! Very exciting news! I'll definitely try to be there! :-D

A shame, M&B aren't the BBs even if they licensed the named in 1998 during vastly different circumstances.

BW Power play? Are you insinuating that there is another motive in play here other than a couple of friends getting together to perform a show?

First of all, how do you assume I'm a sir?

Secondly...Trust me, folks - AGD either doesn't REALLY know everything that's going on backstage, or is just making it up. Or, is just listening to Bruce's side of the story (surprise).

Read Mike's letter to the LA Times.

Very true, Mr. Mayo.  That's what happens when there's nothing else to talk about.  This board's all about speculation from all different angles.

I'd think twice about questioning Andrew on this matter. He may not know everything, but he knows enough. He surely doesn't make sh*t up, either.

Since you brought all of this up, please provide the exact quote?

"In fact, very early on, Brian was just going to join the tour for a few dates in big cities." - Mike Love.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/05/entertainment/la-et-ms-mike-love-beach-boys-on-brian-wilson-20121004 (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/05/entertainment/la-et-ms-mike-love-beach-boys-on-brian-wilson-20121004)


As Mike had envisioned. Which clearly didn't happen.

Oooo...I'm scared. Not saying he makes sh*t up. Just saying his primary source may not be giving him the whole truth.

AGD is a great guy and wonderful historian who has done a lot for BBs fandom, but I agree he isn't impartial on this issue with M&B vs. B/A/D.

Respectively, correct, I don't know everything that's going on backstage... incorrect, I don't make anything up, for various reasons (like, integrity and not being an idiot) but mainly because the folk we're discussing keep a watching brief on this and other forums (fact, not my belief or opinion)... and incorrect: as with any half-decent researcher, I have more than one primary source.

But your claim was that Mike "gambled" on Brian dropping out, whereas what he's saying here is that the early game plan was for Brian to do selected prestige dates, which as anyone with even a basic grasp of the English language will realise is something entirely different. Ergo, you have just shot yourself in the foot a la James Watt.  ;D  Piece of advice when quoting someone in support of your idee fixee - make sure what they say does actually agree with you and not contradict it, as it does here.


Actually, you did, as highlighted in red. You called me, in essence, a liar.

If you mean I'm not toeing the "Mike always bad/Brian always good" line, then I agree - I'm not impartial.

Further point to ponder: remember what happened the last time Alan joined forces with Brian ?  All ended rather abruptly with some explanations that were about as watertight as a colander and as plausible as Lance Armstrong. As Churchill said, history may not repeat itself but historical situations recur.

Exactly. It's obvious he's siding with the Mike and Bruce faction, since Bruce is his inside source. Which is awesome. I greatly appreciate Andrew. But he's obvious siding with the guy that gives him a bunch of his info.

Do me a favor, don't play that babyshit game here. Read and learn. :)

The issue is deeper than that, the BBs should be all together using the name. If they are not, the name should be inactive to build up demand for future reunion tours. I think Brian and Al will stay together this time since they are fighting for something very important, the future of the BBs.

Read between the lines, genius. Mike only agreed to make the album when it was thought Brian would be a part-time tour participant. Then when the whole tour came up, the sh*t hit the fan. Why do you think the Grammy nomination show announcement never happened? When I spoke to Mike in December 2011 and asked if they were going to do the project, he said, quickly, "If we don't kill each other first." (Uh oh - SOMEBODY OTHER THAN ANDREW TALKING TO A BEACH BOY?? OH MY!) But by then it was too late - he was already committed.

AGD is the Fox News of Beach Boys information. Completely biased, impartially informed and therefore, prone to molding said information into half-truths. A mouthpiece for Mike and Bruce. Does he have a wealth of Beach Boys knowledge? Absolutely. It's a shame he lets his opinions and friendship with Bruce get in the way of it all. AGD - you know everything? Fine - then tell us the release plans for this year. Is there gonna be a new album, and if so, from who? Let's see what you know.

And a piece of advice for you, AGD: try speaking the way you do to others in real life as when you're in the safety of your pajamas, on your computer. See what happens.

Do me a favor - get bent.

I don't think Al and Brian are fighting for the future of the Beach Boys by touring together. Or else, why did Brian agree to give Mike the touring rights to the name in the first place, or why doesn't he take it to court instead of touring with Al Jardine, which isn't going to accomplish a thing in terms of depriving Mike of the touring name rights? I think Brian and Al and Dave are just out to have fun and to keep some publicity out there for themselves, but it will have no affect on the Beach Boys' touring name rights or whether they ultimately reunite with Mike and Bruce for another tour and/or album.

Who told you Bruce was my inside source ?  Wasn't Bruce, I'm thinking, and I know it wasn't me, because aside from any other reason, it's simply not the case. If I side with anyone or anything, it's checkable fact or plausible deduction. I don't indulge in idle, mindless or biased speculation.

Dude, we know Bruce is your inside source.

" I don't indulge in idle, mindless or biased speculation."



Then you simply must not be a Beach Boys fan!  J/K

Well OK then, point by point:


Untrue. The album was posited way before the tour was seriously considered.


I don't think - I know why. As for Mike saying what he did... dude has a very dry SOH. Also has a very keen sense of the inter-group dynamic. He's been doing this sh*t for over 50 years: by comparison, we know precisely nothing.


You've obviously not read my writings and opinions over the decades. People change, stances vary as new, better information is acquired or unearthed. Initially, back in the 70s, I bought the Leaf world view then, as time passed and I made my own contacts (in almost all camps - how's that for impartiality ?) I modified that view considerably. Anyone who selectively edits for their own ends is someone I'd cross a busy street to avoid. No point in doing it, you'll get caught out eventually, especially in this digital age.


Nope, never have, never claimed to. Can't help it if people - like you - put words in my mouth that I've never said. Guess I should be flattered.


Anyone who knows me IRL knows that I speak my mind there too.  What happens ? Heated debate ensues. Arms are waved, insults flung, that's all. We're all too old and indolent for fisticuffs. Most uncivilized.

My take on this is:

Al and Mike don't really get along so well. Al wants to keep the original surviving members together.

Mike and Brian don't have problems with one another personally at this point.

Mike cares deeply about Brian but also has a business to run. Mike has serious concerns about Brian's management and Brian's health, particularly with regard to being on the road with the group's touring pace.

Dave and Bruce want to work with the group(s) in whatever capacity is available.

Nothing AGD has posted seems fabricated, or one-sided.

I'd love to see all 5 of them get back together again. But for anyone who's dealt with family, workplace and/or creative dynamics, how can we expect this would be easy?

You have no idea how wrong you are.  ;D  As I've pointed out several times (do try to pay attention), I don't have a single source... and given that Bruce contacted me, I'm not dumb enough to pump the poor guy for info on a weekly basis. Go to the well too many times, it dries up.

sh*t. Must try harder.

Gee I'd love to know when the current BB touring licence agreement expires ... and then be a fly on the wall at the BRI meeting where the agreement is discussed.

 >:D

I want to be at the BRI meeting with popcorn in hand... ;D

You must be a relative newcomer who hasn't seen AGD's name on Beach Boys' message boards for the past two centuries. He has many sources, I'm sure. Besides, no one would rely as Bruce as a definitive source on anything Beach Boys related. Not even Mike Love. I'm not sure Bruce would even rely on himself as a Beach Boys' source.

25 years initially, renewable in 5 year increments after that subject to cost of living increases

Start date?

Actually are you sure about that? 25 years is one hell of a generous term for any licence agreement.

AGD probably knows the real length

I'm gonna have to agree with KittyKat on this one. SMiLE Brian, did Brian recruit Al and David for a fight? Do you view this concert as a "jab" or a "left hook"? I wonder how Al or David would feel about that, to be "used"?  Maybe Al could get out his acoustic guitar at the concert and play "Only A Pawn In Their Game". :o

And, is that what you think of Brian? Do you think he now performs, not for the enjoyment or for artistic reasons, but to win something? Sad...

Do ME a favor...don't post anything like that again.

Who wants to be a fly-on-the-wall at a BRI meeting when one can enjoy a myriade of spectacles taking place between fellow board members?! Popcorn anyone?  ;D

If the M&B show is bringing in the cash my guess is that the meeting would go well.

I would suspect that Brian and al have done okay from the M&B show.
 

Hello, double standard!

I mean seriously - AGD comes on here every day and talks to people like they're dirt. That's okay?? Come on.

You weren't responding to Andrew, though. Otherwise I'd let it slide.  In any case, the initial argument was along the lines of him calling what you said bullshit,which it was- those of us who know how the tour really came together know what you said was erroneous, and based on a misinterpretation of a Mike Love quote.  Your response was to say he was making things up, and then lie about that in a later post! So, you shouldn't be surprised if someone calls you out on that.

Meh...whatever. Reading the last couple of pages of this thread has given me a massive headache. I'd like to thank  those in the thread like Donny and SmileBrian who kept things on topic, though.

Yes, but of course, if I told you, I'd just be making sh*t up.  :old

Only the ones who don't know their basic BB facts, post complete nonsense as fact or call me a liar. Congratulations - you tick all three boxes.  ;D

Trust me - I know as much if not more. Either you guys are lying, or are full of the bullshit Andrew says I am.

And again - I challenge you: if you know so much, what's in store for this year?

Wow, being crass, pompous and (undeservedly) arrogant. But we'll let it go, right?

Ah, so now everyone who contradicts you is lying and/or full of bullsh*t. Dreadful thing, paranoia. Plus, you're doing exactly what Eeyore did, demanding I go against the wishes of my sources and break their confidence. Bad journalistic practise. Even worse manners.

And what's so hard about apologizing for calling me a liar ? You kin to Carol Kaye ?

In other words, Bruce cut you off?

My dear sir, madam or creature of indeterminate gender, you possess such a talent for putting words into my mouth and incorrectly deducing factoids from perfectly innocuous sentences that a career in politics surely beckons. I heat the Labour Party are recruiting.

Now, to un-derail this thread, given the propensity of BriMel to announce tours piecemeal, it's possible that Alan & David have signed up for the summer - and that would be most interesting - but the phrase "special guests" most frequently translates as "shows up for a song or three": even back in 2006, as I recall (corrections welcomed) Alan didn't join Brian onstage until "Then I Kissed Her" some five songs into the show. I don't see this as Brian, or his people, trying to make a point. They don't need to.

Look at what I miss when I am off work! Questioning Andrew? Andrew is respected, JR you are not, how does one earn or warrant respect?

I'd like to reveal that I'm Andrew's source. I get all my info from this board and pass it to him via PMs. He then posts stuff here, I read it and pass it back to him.

Hence your assurance of its integrity: it came from him, via me via him.

Now, back on topic: what if it's more than one or two dates together? What if Al & Dave are gonna guest on Brian's next album?

Better, what if it's a band album without Mike & Bruce?

Brian. Al. Dave. – B.A.D.

BAD Beach  – what a name for a band!

I've never heard of Fraze Pavillion. Does anybody know how far it is from Sharon, Pennsylvania?

Interesting. My befuddled adversary registered in July 2009, made 22 posts then took a three-year plus time out before returning to, apparently expressly, take a pop at me. I think we've met before, on A. N. Other forum. Possibly IRL. How droll.

JR - if people look at some of the elements that made this C50 so great for all who could "be there," then, one factor might be that the band members had worked hard, in their respective context. I have never experienced a show cancellation, with the exception of the Maharishi Tour.  I've seen Brian many times, and he never cancelled a show.  He is a pro.  And, despite his back problems, he got himself on that stage every night. 

Al has a fantastic band, and some members go back as far as the 70's/80's with the BB band.  Dave has appeared with
Mike.  Brian has a great band, but it will be interesting if some of Al's band joins them for whatever lineup they will have. But, if people can step back and apply the very factors that made this year so amazing, it was that they worked "outside" the original model, in my opinion. It made them stronger as performers, and song writers.  Al's album, "Postcard" is a treasure.

And for the same reason, if and when, they come back together to "celebrate another milestone," they will have grown better still.  They are survivors, and did everybody proud with this reunion.  The music will be in more geographic areas, and can never be a bad thing.   ;)

Who said Brian was using the two,if all three want to perform to keep an interest in the full BBs to get M&B to stop play playing games with a licence voted on in 1998. The BBs looked to be dead for good in 1998 with Carl dead, Brian wanting a solo career, and Al banned from touring with the BBs. If the members want to keep touring together as the full BBs, what's wrong with that? M&B's time has passed as BBs group, its time for the reunited group to show what they got.

It is in Kettering Ohio, right outside of Dayton.

Man, I hope some more dates are on the schedule - specifically some more Midwestern dates since we didn't get much during C50...

You said it. In your above quote, you wrote "I think Brian and Al will stay together this time SINCE THEY ARE FIGHTING for something very important, the future of the BBs."

So, the last time Brian and Al toured together, it was just for the fun of it. Now, they are performing together to fight for something? The future of the Beach Boys?

Based on your theory, if they are fighting for something, then there must be sides taken. Us against them. Do you think Brian called Al and Dave, or do you think it was the other way around. Do think David called Brian and asked to appear with him? I would bet that Brian(andhiswifeandmanagers) initiated the contact for this appearance (for reasons that differ from yours). So, based on YOUR theory, Brian recruited Al and David to WIN something.

They must be fighting for the right to PARTY!!

The performance might be for fun, but the three might be sending a signal to M&B that they are willing to perform and tour so they can all reunite as the BBs. All everybody wants is the C50 lineup of the BBs, what is so wrong about Brian sending a signal to Mike that the BBs should be together, not apart.

You know, SMiLE Brian, maybe you're right. Seriously, maybe this is some strategy or game concocted by Brian and hiswifeandmanagers to send a signal to Mike. I mean, I wouldn't put it past them. But I sincerely hope it's not. Think about it. Like I posted above, it would be really sad for a 70-something husband and grandfather, a mentally ill and drug addicted man, a multi-millionaire, a guy who gets his enjoyment these days from going out to lunch and listening to oldies radio stations, to STILL be engaging in these types of games. And, yet, to your point, that might be exactly what's going on.

As I and numerous other posters have suggested, if this IS SOMETHING that is important to Brian (and Al), there are better ways to handle it, specifically behind closed doors. Unfortunately, Beach Boys' history will show that the wrong path will be taken.

I seriously doubt that's going to happen. Of course it would be neat to see Hinsche, Carter, Figueroa, and Matt and Adam up on stage with them, but there's a very slim chance of that happening.

If I have learned anything as a BB fan, is that anything/everything is possible, and when you least expect it.

SMiLE, C50... ;)

Well, shoot, invite Blondie and Ricky too then!  Ricky joined Brian and Al on stage in Oakland in '07, so yeah, anything's possible! But you gotta pay all those supporting musicians.  From a business stand point, I doubt that would be profitable. Why do you think Mike couldn't wait to get back to doing the Mike & Bruce show so soon after the C50 tour?

Mikie - one has nothing to do with the other.  C50 was a special touring event. Nothing more, nothing less. This is not where a decision is made.  From a business standpoint, I could not venture an opinion.  I'm not in that business.  I haven't read what the lineup is.  And it is good they are all out there performing the music. 

Ya, anything is possible.  Brian doing Gershwin, Pet Sounds Live, SMiLE live, TLOS.  Amazing.  And after Carl's passing, totally unexpected. Such a great surprise!

And, I just like to stay tuned...I'm never disappointed.  ;)

The point I was trying to make was that it's a business decision concerning which musicians are on stage with each band at a given time. I'd love to see it, but it doesn't make sense to have Al's band join Brian's band. Brian already has a full band, just like Mike (and Al) already have full bands! In comparing this to the C50 band, it was a combination (partial) of Brian's band and Mike's band together. And Mike indicated that the C50 tour, after all the costs of musicians and other factors, wasn't a big money maker. It's a business. They ain't out there just to make the fans happy all the time and travelling around - they're out there to feed themselves and pay the mortgage for them and their families!

Of course, there's a financial aspect in Mike wanting to get back to touring with Bruce in the others, but a possibly more important factor is that he'll be calling the shots as opposed to doing things by committee as per C50. To get last year's touring up and running, everyone had to make concessions and compromises, and Mike's were to use most of Brian's band with just two of his guys (and props to him for agreeing that, it worked like a dream), and to temporarily cede the tiller to BRI & the wivesandmanagers. After some two decades of calling the shots, that had to be hard.

Also, irrespective of how much they each made from the C50, Mike also had to suspend touring and doubtless experienced a net fall in income (as, of course did Brian & Alan as well). So, not so black & white.

There is also, perhaps Mike's (and the others ) "building" a band, from Ground Zero, and really making it, in the face of critics, and pride in doing it.  

One might be hard pressed to leave that behind, but, such decisions are made in the "board room" and not on a message "board."  

The reunion shows were outstanding, emotional, and miraculous.  But I can't say I've seen any of the working bands put on a bad show.  It maybe be an "event driven" determination as to what they choose to celebrate by either touring or recording.  I'm just staying tuned!  ;)

I'd like to know if Mike made more, or less, on the C50 tour.  I paid $175. for a sold out show at the Hollywood Bowl, which is probably a lot more than they charge for the M&B tour.  Although there would be 5 people to share the proceeds with on C50.

Am I reading this right. Brian and *cough* Al made less money during the C50 than they normally would? ???

A lot more than 5. Touring party was over 40 at one point. I would suspect Dave would have got a lot less than Brian. Brian had his own bus plus a lot more was spent on promotion. My guess would be a company paid the band a set amount per gig or per leg. The band was able to top that up with the paid meet and greets, merchandising and signings plus any income from future (now released) DVD and (later) Live album.

My reading here and other boards is Mike pretty much controls the M&B tours which are run on a shoe string compared to the C50.

On the other hand if the WilsonJardineMarks show is out grossing the M&B show (quite possible) and the former aren't paying royalyties and Mikes's not pulling the bucks he's used to .... then .... hhhmmmmmmmmmm .... who would be the agrieved?? Such a meeting wouldn't be about who is happy, it would be about who is pissed off.

All this talk about meetings, strategy, power games, future of the Beach Boys etc.

Maybe its just me, but since Brians solo career restarted in 99 I have yet to be convinced that his BB life is anything else but a hobby to him. Granted when he signs up for a tour/ album he gives it everything but if it stopped tomorrow he would care not one dot.

He would be more than happy to drop most BB songs from his setlist at his solo shows IMO.

Not forgetting a band some three times bigger, a huge stage show and tech team and a considerable entourage. The overhead woudl eb orders of magnitudes bigger than the M&B tour.

Bad phrasing on my part - I mean they made less from Mike's touring.

Beg to differ on that - he most certainly did not "give it everything" on GIOMH, and I've experienced some solo shows that could be charitably described as "perfunctory".

Highly unlikely, IMO. Mike & Bruce have regularly outgrossed Brian since the latter began touring. For one of the 2006 Pet Sounds shows with Alan, I recall there being 600 people in a 3000 seat venue. The Canadian Gershwin tour was a financial disaster of the first order.

This is getting silly.
There's no "WilsonJardineMarks show" -- there's a single show been announced at which Al and David will be joining Brian's band. Even if the three of them tour more widely (as I hope, as I'd like to see Al perform again, and he's not likely to do a solo UK tour), it would be as "Brian Wilson", playing the same kind of venues, to the same kind of crowd as Brian's solo tours have in the past. Brian's solo tours haven't harmed Mike's tour in the slightest before, so I don't see why this would suddenly be any threat to him now.
There is a huge, huge, Tower Of Babel-sized edifice of speculation here being built on a tiny crumb of fact.

My turn for bad phrasing. I mean in his Brian Wilson world. Good product and average product yes. Good gigs and bad gigs yes, but he fronts.

Well said that man !

Its what we do!

But 'the members' *don't* want to keep touring together. *SOME* of the members do, but if they all wanted to continue working together, they would be.

And the 'reunited group' *did* 'show what they got' -- last year.

No matter how much some fans might want it (and frankly, if Al *does* join Brian's band full time -- which I doubt, but going with it for a second -- that would be immensely preferable to me than a continued reunion tour, as we'd then have two excellent bands, not one, touring, competing with each other, so we'd have both bands upping their game and get to see twice as many shows), if they don't *all* want to be on the same stage, they don't owe it to anyone to do so.

Exactly - Alan & Brian & David all said they wanted to carry on touring, but what did the two voting members of BRI actually do about it ? Nothing, beyond making statements to the media.

As long as Brian continues to record and tour I really don't care what the others do. He's the only one doing new recordings of any significance unless the whole band does more.  

Would we actually know what's going on behind the scenes in this case, though?

 Only because Mike & Bruce tour as "The Beach Boys." If Mike toured under his own name, he would be easily beaten by Brian touring under his. I guess it is fruitless to argue with a LOOKING BACK WITH LOVE apologist though. 

I don't think anyone has argued otherwise -- certainly AGD hasn't. But his post was in response to someone claiming that Brian, Al and David without the name would make more money than Mike and Bruce with it -- which is a very different proposition to the claim that you're making.

I don't understand why Brian Wilson has toured  so much the past decade plus. Has he always lost money on it? Considering the huge band he has, and his demand for a luxury bus from city to city, and the fact a fair number of gigs have had either mediocre or terrible attendance, what has that cost him? I don't get the motivation. Maybe pride, maybe Melinda Wilson's pride? I have to think the reunion tour made more money for Brian than his own tours have. Heck, his BRI share from Mike's tours have to had made more money for him than some of his solo tours. 

I don't claim to have any inside knowledge, but my guess is it's good for Brian to get out there and tour, instead of sitting at home with the chance to sit around and think and get depressed.

How many BB shows are scheduled for 2013, in comparison to pre-reunion tour levels of performance?  My sense is that no one is "touring" (is there a full BB schedule or just a few shows here and there?). For BW, AJ, and DM it's just one night? I sense that wheels are turning behind the scenes re: the new album, which they will have to promote together, and some major, select venues for the whole band. Forget warfare and strategy; I rather think that all the boys want to rock in any way they can while that all gets sorted out. Perhaps this is why (even in Mike's letter) that nothing has been ruled out.  The one Brian show, somewhere in Ohio (no offence Buckeyes), actually encourages me about a full reunion and new album.

Mike & Bruce have a dozen dates already announced, between February and May. Between that and AGD's posts, I'd be prepared to bet a substantial amount of money that there won't be a single show featuring all five Beach Boys this year.

I'd have to agree with that. Mike & Bruce play a lot of dates on the summer outdoor venue circuit.  Most of those types of venues don't finish booking and announcing gigs until as late as May. I'm going to guess they line up many more dates that will take them from June until October, when the weather gets too cold.  I don't see any way that there would be rehearsal and playing time for any reunion type of line-up.  If it happens, it will be another year (and would fit with Mike's belief that they needed to give the reunion a rest to build up demand, if they do decide to try it again).

Wouldn't be surprised if the Lucky Old Sun tour didn't make any money either. I think there was about 500-600 people at the venue I saw that show too.

My guess is Brian makes enough in royalties to make our eyes water. Didn't Bruce say about 10 years ago he still made $200k a year for 'I Write The Songs'? Multiply that by the number of BW hits and we are talking some nice coin.

As I said earlier, I think it is a hobby to Brian nowdays so the money (or loss) could be covered.


Oh and another thing. The money Mike has to pay each year for the touring rights probably more than covers Brians tours. Now how is that for irony?

Would that venue have been in Oakland Mike?

Si, Senor.  Paramount Theatre. September of '08. Total capacity around 3,000 seats.  About 1/2 full in my estimation.  Were you there too, Jimmy?

Not at all, because it's a documented fact: Mike & Bruce, post Carl's passing, tried touring as "America's Band" and drew very poorly (four shows were cancelled). That's why BRI were asked to issue a license for touring as "The Beach Boys". You really didn't know that ?

Brian said in an interview that he likes touring, except for the performances. Of course that was some years ago, I'd say his view has changed.

Everyone's royalty income, that's everyone in the music business, has been hit very hard by piracy, downloading and the decline of CD sales (the real bucks were always in the publishing, and lately merchandising). Brian's income from that is very comfortable but I'd be very surprised if it was even close to what it was a decade ago. Example: TWGMTR sold 61,000 copies to hit #3. 10 years ago, that might have got it in the bottom 50.

And since the price of CDs are roughly the same now as they were back then, but the price of just about everything else has risen (especially gas), those 61,000 copies sold mean less in adjusted dollars then they would've 10 years ago.

Mike has to make/maximize a profit because he is under a license with shareholders.

Yes I was..I remember that big ol' Nelson Whatshisname standing outside pushing his cd's. I saw him and Al too,in Oakland.

It has been 4 months or so since the big media ruckus. I highly doubt we'd know so soon if something had changed or will change in the future in terms of BRI and licenses.

Brian may just be doing some fun shows (or a show; although my guess is we'll see at least a handfull more) with Al and David, but regardless of whether they are doing shows in order to "make a point" or make some sort of passive agressive move, I would say if they actually do a full-blown "tour" with all three present, it will be seen as a bit of a shot towards the Mike/Bruce camp whether it was meant that way or not.

We should indeed probably start a message board pool to guess how long it will take, if a Brian/Al/David "tour" happens, before some media outlet points out that two Beach Boys are in the band touring as "The Beach Boys" while another band has three Beach Boys.

Whatever the reason or result, I hope the Brian/Al/David lineup books a show in my neighborhood.

I know that this board is not made for my entertainment, but the AGD/JR fight was much more fun to read than the posts about the actual thread subject! ;D

Def. wasn't fun for me. I already have a shitty life and high blood pressure, and was having a shitfuck of a day to begin with; last thing I needed to see was that mess.

Anyone who saw Brian with the Boys last year, or the year before on the Gershwin tour would likely concur. Brian still needs to warm up a little but he seems to relish live performance once he feels comfortable. Who'd have thunk it?

That's what people who know Brian well say. Brian himself says music is a therapy for him.

As the husband of a depressed wife, I know that gentle prodding to get her out there doing her thing does her a world of good. One of Brian's key illnesses is said to be depression, especially when he doesn't do much. But when things are going well, he still has the fire in his belly from time to time. Touring helps keeps the embers burning

Yup, I've seen him on and off about 20 times since the start of the last decade (PS tour, Hollywood Bowl) and last year he was a different guy, in many many respects.  I'd say the therapy works!

I'd say working in The Beach Boys helps.

Not that anybody is trying to specifically say anything to the contrary, but my understanding is that nobody had the rights to use the "Beach Boys" name in the immediate aftermath of Carl's death in 1998. It's not as if Mike thought the name should be retired, changed the band's name, then found that nobody wants to see his band if it isn't called the Beach Boys, and only then persued a license.

I'm guessing he always wanted to use the name and always planned to pursue using it, and persued the license because he wanted the income, prestige, power, etc. that goes along with using the name, and I'm guessing he would have pursued the name even if the "America's Band" bookings had not been as dismal. In other words, I'm guessing BRI was asked to issue a license because Mike wanted to be "The Beach Boys" (a plan that had apparently been in the works for some time, hence the whole Marks/Jardine fiasco in 1997), and perhaps the dismal returns on sales for "America's Band" shows only gave that pursuit of the license a larger sense of immediacy.

After Carl's death the license continued to resided with BRI and whoever had BRI's permission could presumably tour under the license just as they had before Carl's passing. Did Carl individually hold the license? I've not heard that. There were concerts with Mike and Al while Carl was out, were there concerts with Mike and Al after Carl's passing?

I think the incentive to have the license reside with one BRI member [and that member being Mike] was probably driven by Al's unilateral power grab trying to push through a series of concerts which neither Brian or Mike agreed to and Al allegedly trying to replace Mike with Peter Cetera.

Not sure about your logic there...

If the America's Band shows had sold well then would Mike really have chosen to take another option knowing that he would have to pay Brian, Al and Carl's estate a vast amount of money for the use of it?

I don't think the Marks/Jardine situation has much to do with it. Even if Carl had lived, Mike would still have wanted Al out of the band.

Yes, there were two shows billed as the Beach Boys with Mike and Al in early 1998.
Your attempts to assassinate Al's character over the years have grown quite tiresome over the past decade or so.  We get it.  In your eyes, Mike's a hero, and Al's a villain.  Give it a rest...PLEASE.

So touring and the license just went on as usual I guess.

Al's character speaks for itself. Anything in particular you object to that justifies your accusation?

David was being groomed to replace Al... then the wrong guy left the band.

Nobody had BRI's permission to use the license after Carl died, or at least after Al left/was forced out. That's the point. No touring lineup, certainly after a handfull of shows Al did in 1998, apparently had a license to use the name specifically because Al and Carl were no longer part of the band. Mike didn't have a license because after Al was gone, he was left with a band that, at that time, did not quality for the license. I'm sure he would have seamlessly continued to use the BB name if he had been able to.

As for your comments regarding Al, I will second the wise words of Mr. Aniversario instead of doing more of the Mike/Al debate with you. A flashback to our discussions of literally now over a decade ago might be fun for nostalgia, but Eric's words are much more apt. We get it. You're not a fan of Al's, and have your own perception of what Al did 15 years ago and what his motives were. I disagree, and even those who disagree with Al's legal points/arguments from back then don't tend to paint him as the villain you have over the years.

As far as the "America's Band" naming, I absolutely believe Mike would have pursued using the BB name even if his "America's Band" shows had done well. Using the BB name will always result in more bookings, larger bookings, larger advances, etc. I don't see any evidence that Mike used the "America's Band" name for any other reason than because he had no other choice at one particular point in time. Even a moderately successful "America's Band" tour would generate less income for Mike than a "Beach Boys" tour where BRI gets a licensing fee (for which Mike himself gets 25%). Mike wouldn't be touring right now and would not have been touring for 15 years under the license unless it made him an adequate amount of money even after the licensing fee paid to BRI. I think the licensing fee paid to BRI has been overstated in some recent discussions. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice big chunk of money by most folks' standards, especially to simply sit at home and generate income because you're co-owner of a trademark. But 100+ shows per year on a pretty lean touring operation with an in-house production company means plenty of money is being generated after all the licensing fees and other costs are factored in.

I absolutely understand that Mike wanted Al out of the band. That indeed had nothing to do with Carl or David specifically (although David was apparently used as a pawn in the whole deal according to David himself). I was citing the awkward late 1997 Jardine/Marks situation as evidence that even while Carl was still around, Mike wanted to head a touring "Beach Boys" to the exclusion of anybody or everybody whose absence would not permanently lead to Mike not being able to use the name. The implication that may or may not have been intended by anyone that Mike stopped touring as "The Beach Boys" out of respect for Carl or anything of that nature is something that I see no evidence of. He has at various points had no problem using the name sans some or all of Brian, Dennis, Carl, Al, and David.

I've never head any indication that Mike had any plan permanently to stop using the BB name. So yes, to reiterate, I believe he would have pursued using the BB name regardless of how well his handfull of 1998 shows as "America's Band" had fared.

I don't think the license existed before Carl's passing. When Carl was alive, the deal was they had to have a minimum number of Beach Boys principals onstage, according to their contracts. The number used to be 4, but was reduced to 3 at some point in the '90s.

Brian, Al, and David playing shows together is welcome news.

Exactly! That's the big takeaway from this thread/news. In all of the "hey, they'll all go back to their own groups" talk a few months ago after the reunion tour, I worried and wondered aloud about whether we would see much of Al or David if Brian went back to solo shows and Mike back to his band. Neither Al nor David have done a ton of shows in recent years, whether by choice or not. If Brian does an actual tour of a dozen or two or three shows, then it would be great to have an extended chance to see Al and David perform live.

I gather there used to be an "at least one Wilson" sub-clause too, but that was similarly amended.

What's up with Mike wanted Al out of the band all about?

Damn straight! I finally got my fill of arguing about contracts and hypothetical decisions none of us are privy to, hearing how Alan Jardine & Friends is the obstinate source of all evil, hearing that Brian is out of it and nobody goes to his shows anyway, hearing that Mike is selfless and doesn't consider it work, does it simply to spread the musical love to small markets and employ his band in sort of an Endless Summer Eternal Jobs Program that makes everybody richer than Midas while keeping yer breath minty fresh plus-they-voted-for-it-so-nyah-nyah-nyah.

Wilson/Jardine/Marks with the BW band in 2013? f*** yeah. Sign me up and let's get some California shows booked, people! I want "Pet Sounds" opening second sets, Brian makin' goofy hand gestures and having fun, Al forgetting the words now and again, and buckets of of twangy guitar from a beanpole in a baseball cap! Sounds like a fun night out.

Right, so the trademark resided with BRI but there was no license yet, it was still a BRI boardmember consensus thing.

I haven't called anyone a villain or assassinated anyone's character. I believe everything I cited is a matter of court record and public statement by the principals but feel free to continue to draw your own conclusions and post on and on about your perceptions and suspicions, I have never and won't ask you to stop.

Edited to once again invoke Mr. Aniversario's comments. I gotta stop engaging in this. The Al/Mike debate does not need a "15th Anniversary Tour."  :lol

What has happened to "as for the past, it's all behind us," and "long as we can all stay together"? Did we buy a reunion mythology akin to that of Brian's back? No quite, but I just wish they would tell us something about unity and harmony in 2013, despite the various separate shows here and there. . .

Okay, I'll admit I was pretty much out of the Beach Boys Universe for the good part of a decade, and thus, I'm not up-to-date on every last morsel of in-fighting. But...what the hell was this all about?  Someone needs to fill me in on the particulars. Preferably from all sides.


Next, you're going to tell me that John Stamos was "looking" to replace Bruce with the guys from Air Supply!

What Ontor said.  ;D

I would but I'm forbidden. I think it was Blondie who wanted to replace David with that other guy from the Archies.

Agreed,  8)

I've heard this story bandied about for some time, but I don't know the original source for it. I would imagine it's not completely fabricated, but the whole thing has always sounded to me about as plausible as the time during the "Get Back/Let It Be" sessions where George walked out and John mentioned getting Eric Clapton or Jimi Hendrix, etc.

Al did mention in the "Goldmine" interview from 2000 that he had the idea to do some sort of symphonic tour in the late 90's with Brian involved, but as with many of his sort of off-the-cuff ideas thrown around, nobody else seemed interested. Even Al's own comments in that interview made him sound kind of comically tragic in that nobody seemed to take his idea seriously. The idea of course ironically happened in a different variation with Brian's PS tours and whatnot.

Not sure where the Cetera bit came from. I don't know if that was part of the same story, where Al wanted Cetera in the hypothetical symphonic tour because Mike wasn't interested.

I certainly don't buy the idea that Al ever thought he could "replace" Mike with Cetera permanently and continue on as the Beach Boys. This was the same Al who knew the score when David Marks started playing gigs with them; Al knew then that he had no power in the whole situation, either because of his own doing or the doing of others.

The older I get, the more all of these guys annoy me. Not just Mike, but Brian, too. I don't really enjoy Brian and his hand gestures or his pitchy singing that much, and he often looks like he doesn't want to be there. The argument that Brian really enjoys performing because he smiles every once in a while (between grimacing and staring blankly) reminds me of adults arguing over a baby's facial expression -- is the baby smiling because he's really happy, or is it that he just passed a gas bubble?

Let me put it this way, if I go to a Brian/Al/David show, I'll go for Al and David.

Thanks, Jude.

I mean, I could slightly envision a universe where Cetera could sing *Carl's* parts in some sort of post-Carl configuration, but "replacing" an active Mike.....?

In a December 2004 MOJO article Bill Holdership said Mike alleged it:

"Love reserves most of his current animosity for the other living original Beach Boy, Al Jardine, who he alleges tried to orchestrate a Beach Boys symphonic tour with Peter Cetera and Brian – but without Mike – the week Carl Wilson died from lung cancer in 1998. There's a snide quality in his voice but still no real sense of anger. 'Carl was always the mediator in The Beach Boys, so his absence created a very big void. I didn't feel like continuing with Al after that,  so that launched the whole thing where Al went off and did his own thing and I did mine with Bruce. It definitely created a schism which has lasted to this day. Alan has repeatedly brought lawsuits against Brother Records. But we've been successful at defending ourselves and so his antagonistic approach hasn't gotten him anywhere.'"

Here Al's side from Goldmine:

So what prompted your decision to stop touring with Love's version of the Beach Boys?

We had a symphony tour lined up for the United States. Lots of interested symphonies that could give our music a breadth and depth that we didn't have before and give them a little extra business they needed. A lot of symphonies were going bankrupt. For instance the San Diego Symphony was in a desperate state, and we were going to do our rehearsal concert there in San Diego. They would get one and we would get one. That kind of deal where they get one for their coffers and we'd get a chance to rehearse and get it underway. And then go to the Hollywood Bowl, get that wonderful place sold out and take it from there all over the country. Carry our charts with us and give them to all the different symphonies.

What happened?

Love steadfastly refused to do it. He insisted that Brian be there, I remember that remark which is not all wrong. I don't disagree with that. It would be great if Brian could be everywhere, but we all have to be realistic. He's not going to be predictable that way. He's got only so much energy for that kind of work. He's not built for it.

Brian never liked to tour.

I think Brian was designing our songs back in the day so we wouldn't have to be dependent on him. Anyway, I suggested that he conduct the concert at the Hollywood Bowl. I thought it would be neat if he could come out and take some credit for all that great work. Anyway, that wasn't to be. Mike refused to do it. I think it would've been a great tribute to Carl. It would have been built around the music, not the messenger. It wouldn't have been built around any one of us.

After Carl passed away, you were still in the band and then decided to leave the Love touring lineup sometime after that.

Right. It became one of those moments. Love continued to tour. He didn't stop touring. He just didn't want to tour in that modality. That wasn't his idea of "fun, fun, fun." [laughs] So he continued to work with his band, The California Beach Band, and he would go out and do dates and have surrogate singers do Carl's parts. I thought that was tasteless. While at the same time not going out with the Beach Boys because of Carl's passing so there's some kind of contradiction in that, in my opinion. In fact, my son Matthew at the time was still in that employ, which I did not disagree with because I don't want him to not be able to earn a living. But at some point it got uncomfortable.

So at what point did you pack it in with that lineup?

When Mike refused to tour with the Beach Boys. He just refused to tour with us in any fashion. I can't go into detail with you right now, [but] it got reorganized where Love took the band with an exclusive license and I didn't. And Bruce decided to go with the guy who sang all the hits. Matthew had to make some decisions of his own. We decided to form this entity - Beach Boys, Family And Friends, which I felt would more accurately define the harmonies and the vitality of what was missing in the waning years of the band.

Wait...so having other people do Carl's parts in a band not named the Beach Boys is tasteless, but touring as the Beach Boys with other people doing Carl's parts was okay to Al back then? And then Al doing another group with the Beach Boys name partially attached to it and having other people doing Carl's parts is suddenly okay to Al when he himself does it?

I...have no words.

Thanks for the direct quotes. I think I actually have that issue of Goldmine somewhere. Is it the one where Al says something to the effect of Mike "never meeting a hook he didn't like."?

Reading the above now, it all seems a bit blurry and vague, and also seems to imply that this was all lined-up as Carl, not to put it coldly, wasn't going to be returning to the stage. Thus, I wouldn't simply call it a unilateral move without Carl and Brian's approval. And, despite the animosity on both sides at the time these interviews were given, I can't really believe that Al ever envisioned PC -- or any guest singer for that matter -- as a *direct* replacement for Mike.  Now, if Mike was *unwilling* to tour...

Al Jardine is a strange man, that's for sure.  

Consistency is not something I would use to describe any member of The Beach Boys.

The reprint of those comments is much appreciated. I don't think those comments, which at best amount to a he said-he said situation, indicate a characterization such as "Al allegedly trying to replace Mike with Peter Cetera" as if it was done at the exclusion of a willing Mike.

Al seems to say he wanted Mike and Mike didn't want to do it. Mike seems to say Al tried to do a tour without him (Mike), but doesn't indicate whether he was offered the chance to do the tour in the first place. All of that, coupled with my own sense of logic that Al would, in my opinion, have at least tried to include Mike in such a Beach Boys tour, leads me to believe that there was never any attempt to involuntarily eject Mike from the band or even any such individual project.  We also don't even know if some theoretical show featuring Al, Brian, and Peter Cetera would have even been billed or attempted to be billed as a "Beach Boys" concert.

Further, if this really did take place literally during the weeks leading up up to Carl's passing, then all of that happened after the events of 1997. If the Stebbins/Marks book and Peter Ames Carlin's books are to be believed, Mike had already been trying to edge Al out of the band before 1998 and the supposed proposed symphonic tour. Carlin's book alleges Mike tried to get Al out of the band as early as 1990.

I do think Al was being selectively critical of having surrogate singers do Carl's parts, but I always took part of Al's feelings about showing respect for Carl to be, in part, related to how soon after Carl's passing this all was happening. I think even in 1998 he would not have completely closed the door on doing some Carl-less BB activities at some point, but maybe just not mere months after his death. Just a guess though. As for Al's band, whether you believe he was justified or not, he never billed his band as "The Beach Boys", and specifically saw the "Beach Boys Family & Friends" as an offshoot band. He was having "surrogate" singers do everybody's parts but his own in that band. His band wasn't the "Beach Boys", so no such standard needed to be applied.

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the only Beach Boys shows Al did in 1998 after Carl's passing were shows he was contractually obligated to do. It may have been as few as two shows if Eric's earlier comments are correct.

Very true. Al and the rest have all given us some head-scratching comments and reasoning over the years.  :lol

It was two shows, yes. The second and last was a benefit for the Barbara Ann Karmanos cancer centre, in early June 1998 -- rather fittingly the last real "Beach Boys" show for 14 years was on the same day as Brian's first solo performance, for the Imagination TV special taping. Bruce actually appeared at both shows on the same day.

Mike, Bruce and David had already done at least one show as "The Beach Boys" without Al before that, a corporate gig for Toyota. Their first public show as The Beach Boys came just over a month later.

May, not June -

3 - Ritz Carlton Buckhead, Atlanta GA (private show)
6 - Kentucky Horse Park, Lexington KY  (private show - no Alan)
9 - American Cancer Society Benefit, Detroit MI

To respond to an earlier post, I think Al found it distasteful to get someone to Carl's parts in a different formation of the  band while he was still alive and suffering with cancer, not after he was dead.

The addition of Al's activities reported by the courts move the benefit of the doubt meter way toward the low end for me.

Wow, that's kind of cool!  Big day for Bruce, I wasn't aware that those happened on the same day.

Barry Manilow was on Katie Couric today and talked about "I Write the Songs," and the author, Bruce, whose photo with Mike was flashed on the screen with a Beach Boys mention. Barry talked about the inspiration of the process of composing music as the essence of the song. 

My mistake -- I was going from memory and I could have sworn the TV show taping was closer to the release date of Imagination.

The events of 1998 make today's BBs problems look like child's play.

Give it time...

None of them.

Exactly. That's the second time I saw that posted here, and it was already shot down previously! Where did this even come from?

The way I understood it was that Al might have felt it was "tasteless" to have a band called The Beach Boys with people singing Carl's parts in 1998. Don't forget, this would have been right after Carl died, when past memories and emotions were still high. Perhaps Al thought that being in a band called "Beach Boys Family and Friends" would have been more suitable in that recruiting various family members and long time members of the touring band(Ed Carter, Mike Meros, Bobby Figueroa, etc) would have been a more personal tribute to Carl, while also being a way to keep Al "employed"(i.e. making a living).

what was wrong with the California beach band though?

After reading it over a few times, I kind of got the impression that it was kind of a sarcastic, snide remark, referring to the idea of Mike and Bruce continuing on, in the guise of "The Beach Boys".

Awwhhh f***  me!

Are the Beach Boys from last year going to revert to the norm and fight it out in public?

Defeat from the jaws of victory again!

Looks like Brian just played a private gig. This is from Billy Hinsche's facebook site:


With Brian Wilson at NAMM after playing a brief set for Gibson - right now ...

(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/397553_596407373718893_1019484934_n.jpg)

Great pic. Brian looks a lot like his '64 - '65 self there.

Brian looks awesome.  :)

The birth of a child is awesome. The Grand Canyon is awesome. Brian Wilson looking like he should be holding a sign which reads "Will Work For Clothes That Fit" --- not awesome.

You sir, are a cynic. (And child birth is disgusting business.)

 :P

It's mentioned on Dave's Wikipedia page, that's where I first saw it.  What is this world coming to when you can't trust Wikipedia?!

I doubt there will be any public squabbles.  There is certainly something rotten in Denmark here but I don't think they are going to take to the media with their problems and in fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the guesswork done in this thread is spot on as to what is going on.  I just wish they'd all get on the same friggin' page but I guess that is too much to ask.

I don't know if playing for NAMM/Gibson is that much of a private gig. Brian seems to be at that almost every year and in fact may have some kind of sponsorship deal with Gibson.

If Dave didn't sing it, then who did? It was definitely done during the C50 tour.

Yeah I guess I didn't word that to well. I'm thinking perhaps a court battle, say over the licence, that then get's picked up by the media. Que references to decades of other cases, inter band squabbles and bad blood.

Not a good bookend to a great C50.

Dude... these are The Beach Boys. Turn to "dysfunctional" in your dictionary, it's got a picture of them.

Thats 2 posts hinting all is not well  in BB land Andrew.

Last year was for the fans, this year for the lawyers maybe? ::)

When was it ever ?

You know what? That's completely due to the part(ing) in his hair! :)

I have a feeling that I might not be able to get a definitive answer(or at least on publicly on the board), but I'll ask anyway. Did the group really "make up" and "put away their differences"? Or did they just "put away their differences" for the duration of the tour and for the sake of the historic 50 year celebration? I guess what I mean to say is, are the group in any kind of "good terms" with each other? Do Al and Mike get along? Brian and Mike?

True. Let's just call it "show".

Brian's looking great

Yes. Thank you.

Mike (with Jeff on the falsetto). David only ever sang lead on one song per show -- Getcha Back or, when that wasn't in the setlist, Hawaii.

The only songs Dave sang lead on during the C50 tour were Hawaii and Getcha Back. There was an erroneous report from a fan early in the tour that he was singing Dont Back Down and Wendy, which he was not, but somehow that penetrated enough to convince a few entities that he'd sung those songs. I recall he was rehearsing singing lead on Do You Wanna Dance at the first rehearsals but Brian took it over, which was totally fine with Dave.

New promotional photo on Brian's facebook :)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/19213_10151380810517241_110098427_n.png)

I found it weird hearing David on "Getcha Back", it's a very Mike song that needs that nasally vocal that only Mike can do.

David has a nice voice but he sounded pretty drab on that song


Very cool  ;D

They just photoshopped Mike and Bruce out of the picture on the back of TWGMTR. In the original picture, Al had his arm around Mike. Classic.

Looks like we'll be seeing some more Brian, Al and David dates coming soon

David's on good terms with everyone else, mainly 'cause he's that kinda guy. Brian loves anyone who'll give him steak & birthday cake. Bruce would much rather be in row five and really hates Mike, but don't tell anyone I said that. Mike, as we all know, is the Master Puppeteer so he doesn't have to like anyone else. Alan... well, he's Alan, y'know ?

That pretty much covers it.  :old

Wow, that's hilarious that they repurposed the TWGMTR photoshoot!  :lol

But I like it because it bodes well for more dates with the three together. One would hope/presume they wouldn't slap that together if they were just doing the one show together.

I would also hope that they if they do a full tour together, somebody gets them in a new photoshoot.

Does anybody have the link to the creepy doctored publicity photo that was posted here awhile back, the one used for a 1984 show where they took a 1982 publicity photo and cut Dennis out and then re-doctored it without accounting for all the spare arms?  :lol

It could have been worse. They could have used an early 80's publicity photo and cut Carl, Dennis, Mike, and Bruce out and then somehow tracked down an early 80's photo of David and grafted it in there. Now THERE'S a picture for a t-shirt to sell on the tour!

I hate that they photoshopped Mike and Bruce out of that pic. Very tacky. Just do a new shoot, man.

Have to agree, not at all classy. How long would a new shot have taken ? I'm assuming the relevant permissions were sought and granted ?

I take back my "very cool" comment..

I thought it was just a picture of the 3 guys from the album photo shoot, I had no idea they photo shopped Mike out.

Not cool at all  :( Play nice guys

Yeah, this photo alteration definitely ranks on the list of recent, un-classy, not-cool Beach Boys lineup-related moves.  :lol

Hey, it could have been worse, they could have used the NASCAR uniforms again.  ;D

Here's the full photo, as posted on the blueboard:

(http://designsitecloud.com/clients/bw/bw.png)

The Beach Boys really know how to act like children, don't they  :lol

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8499/8413749239_b410562aa3_m.jpg)
Least they aren't claiming to be the BBs and taking pictures with Stamos.

And Brian's official Twitter feed posted the photo with the line "Get ready for 2013. With @ALANJARDINE and #DavidMarks. http://www.brianwilson.com/tour "

Sounds like there may well be some announcements coming...

I hope they come to Europe for a summer tour in August or something...

That picture looks daft as f***...look at Dave's right arm, specifically near his wrist! The CATP pic was better done, and that was pre-Photoshop! :lol

(http://Does anybody have the link to the creepy doctored publicity photo that was posted here awhile back, the one used for a 1984 show where they took a 1982 publicity photo and cut Dennis out and then re-doctored it without accounting for all the spare arms?)

I want to see that...

Is David still in California? Maybe he is on the East Coast and wasn't available for a new Pic.

If they really cut Mike and Bruce out of the photo instead of doing a new photoshoot just to get in a dig at Mike and Bruce, if anyone thinks this photo is really about being that petty and passive agressive, then the BB as a full group are toast anyway, so it kinda doesn't matter.

On the other hand, if it's a comically lazy PR thing, as I'm guessing it is, then it's just that, comically lazy. Why didn't they do a photoshoot? Who knows? Maybe they just got details of dates sorted out and they wanted to publicize it before they could fly Al out to LA or something, and this was the most recent photo of all three guys that was photoshop-able. Tacky for sure. Does it rise to the level of indignation I'm seeing? No, not at all.

And yes, I personally find the "Beach Boys" photo with Mike, Bruce, and Stamos to be far more comical, offensive, and comically offensive.  ;D

BREAKING NEWS.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8413889209_22956ce30f_b.jpg)

Love it.

Apologies, as I don't know if this meant as sarcastic or not. But I for one find such false equivalency silly. Maybe it's just me, but it's really annoying when something like this photoshopped pic get lumped in with all the other unclassy stuff. It's nowhere near the same thing. It's either laziness, or at worst, a bit of Brian and Co. being "catty." I'm guessing it's the former. Either way, they're not calling this thing the Beach Boys. These three guys in this awkwardly photoshopped image wanted to do more shows with Mike and Bruce!!!!! Let's keep that in mind before we start wagging fingers at them.

In this age of fake internet outrage, this photo was a bad idea. But it doesn't warrant this sort of patronizing "place nice guys!" commentary.

I may be alone in these feelings.  :lol

Mike: "Et tu, Stamos?" :lol :lol :lol

 :lol It's been awhile since reading something on the internet made me laugh out loud! That is awesome!

The Brianistas must be falling over like dominos. Great pic!

Oh lord, now the Beach Boys have turned into a VHS/Beta style format war! As we all know, porn gave VHS the advantage in that war. Stamos has now irreversably changed everything.

Thus, irrefutable logic, John Stamos is the porn of the Beach Boys. Put that on a bumper sticker, Brother Records!  ;D

Except that Mike didn't like the way Mike sounded on it. As he said in multiple interviews this past summer...He wrote Getcha Back with Dennis in mind to sing it, but by the time it was recorded Dennis was dead. He thought David gave it something closer to the vocal texture that he had originally intended for the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQnUG3SAbjQ

:lol

Hm, personally I wouldn't go. I've seen the Beach Boys last year and that's enough for me. Don't have the desire to go to a Brian, Al, David/Mike&Bruce-show. Maybe if it would happen in my hometown but otherwise I don't think so. If the Beach Boys return, well that's a different story

LMFAO!!!
The definitive Beach Boys line up!

Opening tunes from this lineup's setlist:

1.Ding Dang
2.Forever (Jessie & The Rippers Cover)
3.Cottonfields
4.Stowaway

Crowd pleasers, all!

I wonder if Mike kicked Stamos out so Shamoo can now join the band?

Thank you for making me laugh my lunch onto my computer screen...

While I think it's goofy that they edited that photo like that, we gotta face the truth now....

Brian, Al and Dave wanted to continue on touring with Mike and Bruce as The Beach Boys. It's obvious. If Mike doesn't wanna tour with them, but still wants to tour, he should do so under his own name, or another name, but not The Beach Boys. I have a feeling that if the license is up for renewal soon, it might not be renewed.

I honestly though that maybe Brian was cool with what was going on. Ya know, collecting money while Mike and Bruce tour. But the fact that it looks like him, Al and Dave are touring, makes it look like he really does wanna tour with the group.

I don't think anything malicious was meant by this picture.  I think a more proper picture is probably on the way, and they're just using this photoshopped one in the meantime.  The guys all live pretty far apart, and to fly them in for a picture wouldn't really be worth the hassle.

"Maybe"? Definitely! Brian/Melinda are money hardasses, if they for a moment disagreed with Mike's doings, they would end it.

I have a feeling the license might not be up for renewal any time soon. Why fix what ain't broke ?

They're on a beach. Crafty way of calling themselves Beach Boys.

I'd love to know who's behind the photoshop, who's bright idea was it.

We really just don't know the intricacies of licensing setup and corporate setup. But I would think the shareholders would not tie themselves into an irrevokable-under-any-circumstances situation with the license. I would guess there would be some sort of legal option if all of the other shareholders decided the licensing situation was not to their liking. If not a direct revoking of the license, then other "corporate" means to leverage power to get what they want.

It also remains to be seen whether Brian and Al now feel like something is "broke" even if, at least in the case of Brian, they did not previously. I still would wager it's highly unlikely we'll see any move towards even attempting to take the license away from Mike. I could envision a scenario where they might make some move in that direction if Mike continues to refuse to work with the rest of the band and they still have a desire to. But it's extremely low odds that we'll see some huge corporate blow-up with an attempt to strip Mike of use of the name.

If the Brian-Al-Dave lineup actually did some substantial touring, then at least in the case of Brian and Al, they would be making their cut of the licensing fee for Mike's tour and also generating income from their own tour.

There you go being reasonable and making a lucid, cogent statement.  :lol

So now is BRI going to sue Brian, Al, and David?  :lol Then both Brian and Al can enjoy suing themselves. I think at this point the band should reunite and switch to more apt name of "The Rutles."

Here's the photo from that old thread about Dennis being cropped out and the creepy unexplained extra hand:

(http://pictures.historicimages.net/pictures/_2/1664/1663847.jpg)

Quick, somebody take this photo, retain only Brian and Al, and then add David Marks (and Stamos!)

I see two extra hands, one on both of Mike's shoulders.  Wtf kind of publicity photo is that?

Speculation time... :police: ... There's something going on with Mike and Brian's relationship - professionally - and nobody's talking. And that's a good thing. Not the problem with the relationship, but that it might be resolved behind closed doors. Nobody wants the two fighting with words in the press, airing their dirty laundry if you will.

Before the reunion last year, I thought Mike's motivation was, in order, to work with Brian Wilson again and create something special (in the studio, maybe another hit single), to attract the deserved attention and publicity the reunion would bring, and to enjoy spending quality time his cousin, who he truly cares about.

I thought Brian's motivation was mainly driven by his wifeandmanagers, not that Brian didn't "sign off" on it. I don't think Brianandhiswifeandmanagers had any idea where to go with Brian's solo career (and still don't), I think they were attracted to the $$$$$$$ that the reunion would bring them, and I think/hope Melinda felt that some healing could come with Brian getting back together with his friends.

Now, back to Mike. I'm seriously wondering how fulfilling the reunion was for him. Oh, he got the attention and publicity alright. To some extent he got a hit record, well, an album, and I think it's safe to say that SOME healing took place, maybe with all the parties involved. But, I also wonder how much Mike got out of working - of lack of - with Brian. From reading all the various accounts, it appears that they didn't spend a lot of time collaborating, at least in the way they used to. It seemed more like Mike was "assigned" to do certain things, not necessarily CREATE the song itself. And, there was one main thing that I seriously have to wonder if it was present - or missing. Again, just speculating out loud, but I wonder how much of the old Brian was there, the Brian that blew everybody away in the studio, including Mike Love. I wonder if Mike was expecting too much, only to come away disappointed. I don't think everything is out in the open - and probably never will be - about the recording TWGMTR.

Now, back to Brian. I think we can all agree that Brian got more out of the reunion than he/we expected. Extending the tour by a couple of dozen dates made a lot more money. From what we could see/read/hear/speculate, some healing occurred with the band, including with Mike. And, to me anyway, it appeared to be a rebirth for Brian in some ways; at the very least he appeared happy and relaxed more often than not. Nothing against his solo career/band/situation, but it almost looked like Brian was relieved to not have to sit out front, sing all the songs, talk, and relate to bandmates (I know they're great guys) who are 20-30 years younger than him. While I am still skeptical about HOW MUCH Brian wanted to continue with The Beach Boys, I will concede that there is some interest there.

So, why aren't they continuing - right now? There is something there that we don't know. This is what I think. I think that Mike (and the rest of The Beach Boys) were burned by Brian's erratic behavior so many times in the past, starting as early as 1963(!), that there was probably something put in writing, covering all aspects of Brian's behavior. I'm talking about showing up all the time, participating in the activities that the other guys had to do like soundchecks, photo sessions and interviews; and displaying conduct that is expected from any professional musician, specifically the singing, playing (or lack of), staying on stage until the end, etc.

Brian passed with flying colors. He pulled it off. I give him and Melinda a lot of credit. He was a trooper with the bad back, didn't miss a concert, stayed til the end of the shows, strapped on the bass, occasionally talked, smiled, waved, and apparently was the good soldier off the stage, too. So what's the problem with continuing? Brian proved he could do it.

I don't think Mike is totally sold. During the reunion, there was so much at stake, they were in the spotlight, it was a temporary situation with a beginning and an end. There was a lot of money to be made. Because they hadn't worked together in so long, there was a newness, a positivity, a sentimental feeling, a "we're in this thing together" attitude. And, it worked. The last show(s) were as good as any. Actually, maybe they weren't together long enough to get on each others' nerves!

If they continue now, a lot of what made the reunion a success, a lot of the factors, would not be present. They won't make as much money, which still remains the most important motivator. The newness is gone; will they start to bother each other? Will Brian continue his perfect attendance in ALL phases, when he is advertised to be present? Will Brian's mental and physical health hold up? Will Brian become bored? Will Al start to say things that threaten the harmony? Etc, etc.

And, most of all - for Mike Love - is that "thing", that spark, that thrill, that love, whatever Mike experienced working with Brian, still there? I used to think, and posted here many times, that Mike would do anything to work with Brian. Anything. For whatever reason - maybe the Brian of 2013 isn't the same Brian of 1963. 73, 83, 93, or 03 - and it just isn't that important to Mike anymore. If the appeal or attraction of working with Brian Wilson isn't there, or as strong as it used to be for Mike, why bother with all of the other hassles that are bound to occur. It might not be enough to give up what Mike (with help) spent the last 45 years building up.

I don't think the process of recording TWGMTR -- or any of BW's solo records, really -- is that secret. It's always surrounded by gauzy layers of hype, but if you read enough interviews, note the pointed comment or two, and connect the dots, it tends to be pretty easy.

In the case of BW's solo records, he has largely contributed by making demos (sometimes full fledged ones) and watching as his band re-created them in the studio. Sometimes he's written charts and been very involved, sometimes he's let the guys do it as he napped. At times, he has definitely been bored (sometimes for entire records!) and approved non-representative work.

From the sound of it, you have a little of all of the above in TWGMTR. A handful of tracks with indisputable BW touches, some that we can argue about, and several more that I doubt he did more than vaguely nod at. And while he most likely arranged vocals, he never did it in a hands-on way with the group -- the best accounts behind the scenes suggest that Foskett sang BW-dictated parts one by one and the guys came in separately to re-create his tracks. For someone like Mike, this was doubtless arid and deadening. Nothing like the 60s, regardless of the happy talk they had to spout in interviews.

The one full-fledged collaboration seems to have been Isn't It Time, which Mike tried mightily to turn into a hit. But the fussy, overworked single version suggested that the magic was truly fleeting. Maybe only a day or two, early in 2012.

I basically agree with with your excellent post, Wirestone. I suppose there will always be debate, especially on message boards, about the percentages of the different contributions that you mentioned. While Brian did contribute in the ways you noted, the amounts of the contributions will always be open for debate. Maybe I've been worn down or burned too many times, but most of what I read about Brian these days is met with skepticism. We do agree on the Mike issues that you posted, however.

The muses gripped ol' Wirestone for this post; he is devastatingly on; Al himself said they did not do the old "all the boys around the mic" thing as in the past, and those promotional videos are all staged. "It doesn't matter," says Bruce in one of them, because it's only for show. This is why the Professor and others are longing for more and for what we can embrace as a much more "real" BB album. IIT, despite its various iterations and catchy groove, still is not in any viably complete state. The bridge is still lyrically and musically incoherent; the live performances awkward and confused in that bridge. I loved the song, but they failed at it ultimately. Wirestone, I am listening for when enthusiasmos  gets you again, though I wish you were not so correct.

Excellent post! I think this does a great job of getting more into some of the non-obvious reasons Mike would prefer to do his own tour. I think the finances and control are huge factors. But your comments speak to some other reasons why Mike may well have not been as "sold" on the reunion as the others.

Based on recounting in the Rolling Stone article, Mike felt disconnected from some of the album. It seems he was grafting some additional lyrics onto stuff more than "collaborating."

The whole band did seem to appear to have some distance from the album as compared to Brian. On the one hand, this seems like a "Pet Sounds" era sort of setup where Brian writes and the group comes in to sing. But in this case on the new album, they seem to indeed have often simply finessed vocals already prepped by Brian and Foskett, and that's not even getting into how a big hunk of the musical backing tracks on this album had absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the group (which has been the case to varying degrees in the past as well of course). It was great seeing David Marks integrated into the project, but I can honestly say that if you had told me David wasn't on the album at all, I would have probably believed it. He's vocally not evident at all, and while perhaps big Marks fans can spot his guitar style, his musicianship was not readily evident either. Bottom line, I think the whole spectacle of the reunion movitated them to push through and put the album together. I somehow wonder if, say, Mike or Bruce really feel "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" is a great song.

I am near despair, but the truth can have that effect. Ironically, Bruce's vocals are the best thing about that silly novelty song (PLOBAS). If the mythic fiction of "Radio" is keeping Mike at arms length on the future, I don't blame him. As for David, listen to his solo work and his guitar on Radio will jump out at you--the nose to the toes rhythm (title cut) and the twangy, discordant lilt (Summer's Gone/Strange World). I am still waiting for real liner notes. He's the only BB playing a damned note on the album whistling aside), that is worth something.

Please boys, let Jeff and JT sit it out and go into the studio alone or with Alan Boyd or Steve D and just woodshed until we get a real BB album--even if that means a BB album like no other.  And when I say real I do not mean that PS is not a "real" BB album, I am talking about the art that I believe these men can create together now. Anything short of that is unreal and constructed, as Radio is, but not born.

Wirestone and Jude might be onto something there.

Not to derail, but was it ever established why Dave was brought in late on the "Do It Again" video? Remember, he wasn't on the first video and there was a second revision and they later re-did it or edited him in after the fact? What was the deal on that - did he sign the contract late after pre-season try-outs, or was there a simple contract issue or he couldn't make the video shoot or what? That was a little peculiar.

The story, such as it is, from bits of information here and there is that they went into the studio to see if any of this working together had any potential and that once they felt confident about it, Brian told Mike he wanted Dave's "energy" on the song and thus, we assume, in the total reunion. Thus Dave replaced the existing rhythm and lead tracks Scott, et al  did (I am sure he humbly bowed out) and the official reunion video was born. Not sure what Mikie is getting at beyond this, but I am listening to you all closely here. Thank you.

No, I wasn't trying to make any points or play connect the dots, it was just a random thought and I always wondered about it. A little surprising that Dave was brought in later after they had already cut the track (and/or the video). I assume that it was already agreed upon at that point that Dave was going to be in the C50 road band and play on some album cuts in the studio.

Sheriff and Wirestone, interesting takes on the situation. I think you both might be onto something. I definitely think there is something up with the Brian and Mike relationship, at least professionally. I wouldn't doubt that Mike wants more of a creative role in a possible next album, if he even wants to do another album. I agree that maybe he finally did the whole reuniting with Brian thing, and it wasn't as great as he hoped, so now he's back to what he was doing before. Who knows? And he might not get along great with Al still. And maybe he thinks Brian is too controlled by his "people". Which is kinda amusing though, because if Mike had his way, he would likely try to "control" Brian in his own way, to his own end.



Let's be honest about this.

When the guys decided to do a "test drive" for the reunion and record "Do It Again", the obvious four showed up. For this to be a true Beach Boys reunion, one knew they had to have Brian and Mike there. And despite possible bad blood with Mike, you knew Al had to be there. With him too, it would be hard to conceive of a Beach Boys reunion in 2012 without Al Jardine. And then Bruce. Was his part in the reunion essential? Probably not. But people recognize him from the "Kokomo" video, he's Mike's right-hand man, and he's from the classic "arty" era. So you have four Beach Boys. Just like (for all intents and purposes), the late '80s and early '90s, but with Brian instead of Carl.  And the public accepted that as The Beach Boys then, whether we like it or not. So they go cut "Do It Again", film the promo, and maybe work on some new stuff. Likely somebody (possibly named Jon Stebbins) communicated to somebody in the semi-inner circle that it would be pretty neat to include David Marks, since he is an actual Beach Boy, and played on some awesome sh*t. And so he was in. But I don't think for a second that Dave's presence in the reunion was anything more than an afterthought. Same goes for his presence in the album. I personally am unsure if he would have added or subtracted to my enjoyment of the album, but I suppose it woulda been cool if he had more of a chance to shine.

The Sweetdude (who is always wise and delights The Professor with his insight),
Instead of branding Dave an "afterthought" (a potentially dismissive and pejorative term), I see what we all here recount as simply as the sequence of historical events that led to "putting the band back together," to invoke the classic archetype. 

The notion of "afterthought" in this context is a red herring. They thought of him and he came in "after" the video, after the tracks of the album, etc. No need to foreground the term as if to disprove any other assertion that he did not enter when he entered. . . .

What I am taking away from all our Friday night comments is that we want a full-on BB album, such as the realities and state of being is in 2013 because we wonder what in high holy heaven such an album would sound like. Radio did not answer that question last year. Or rather, we find its answer provisional,  incomplete , and corrupted by illusion.

Thanks for the props professor, and even though you are bummed, remember this....

David Beard was on here recently and seemed quite sure about the guys recording together this year. I assume he knows what he's talking about. So there is hope.

Bazinga !

Friday night with a bunch of strange(r) BB fans--couldn't be a better night. Thanks to all. Please let's hear from DB or anyone about a new album soon (the spell checker first gave me "doom"--perhaps a bad omen). . . . .

OK, it's Saturday morning now and if we've got the nerve, let's take it all the way to Deadman's Curve.

Seems to me the way Dave was brought into the fold after the video was shot and a track or two was already recorded may have been discussed previously. You're probably right, Jim! Maybe Jon could confirm here. Or not.........

I'm just really glad Dave was included. It was a no-brainer to me.

I'm glad too. Dave's awesome

I think it is a mix. The initial DIA recording was to see if the guys could work together. Didn't it get reported that it was done in a matter of hours? Brian also got the guys around the piano for a trial of 'Think About The Days' as I recall.

As the C50 tour started to evolve, I firmly believe the DIA video's main purpose was to market the group to promoters, and in turn us, that here was a active band again. As Dave was going to be part of that touring group, he had to be added to the video.


Although it seems a silly concept now, imagine the whole tour PR/ media/ interviews if Dave had not been invited? Hell, he had more Hawthorne in him than just about everyone onstage and more musical chops than the other core members.

I don't think it would have made a difference, PR-wise. The narrative in the media about him, to the extent there is one at all, is "the Beach Boys' Pete Best" and "the man who briefly replaced Al Jardine when he went off to dental school". Most of the coverage I saw was primarily focused on Brian, with Mike as a secondary consideration and the others a long way behind.

I beg to differ. Its been covered on this board many times that Dave was no Pete Best. The first 5 albums, original signatory to Capitol etc. Also anyone who went to a C50 gig now knows that he can play. If the media didn't pick that up they failed.

I don't recall reading the 'Pete Best' comparrison anywhere?

The media isn't interested in Al Jardine, let alone David Marks.

This board is not the same as the media.

No. But as I said, if the media has not picked up on Daves contribution, from this site or (and I know its hard for them) a little research, they failed.


When I refer to media, I'm meaning the same head-line lowlife that screamed Mike Love sacks Brian, Al and Dave back in September. Am I being insulting to serious journalists perhaps?

Most of the iconic images of the band include 5 members ... I think Dave made it feel more complete. And they needed an authentic, legit guitar hero ... they got one with him.

I agree.


Serious journalists wouldn't make that mistake;sadly the quality of music journalism has gone down. Bunch of yellow tabloid garbage.

Nice one Wirestone!

I don't know about Bruce, but thoughts were probably flowing through Mike like "and people object to MY lyrics?" and "we got back together to have Brian write songs with Joe Thomas?" and, maybe most importantly, "Brian and I could've written a better song".

HeyJude, you used the term "push through". I think I know what you mean by that and I don't want to over-dramatize it, but I'm wondering if Mike doesn't want to "push" anymore?

Life with Brian is a passive-aggressive thrill ride, with a mentally ill man who constantly changes his mind, is out of it a significant part of the time, and yet at crucial points knows exactly what's going on and what buttons to push to make you absolutely crazy.

I have been disappointed with Mike's decision not to continue the tour for artistic reasons and my own personal preferences. But getting into his head on the reunion issue has never been that difficult.

And let me add here, in case anyone thinks I've lost all internal consistency -- I still do believe what I wrote last year about the album and the tour.

-- I don't think it's preposterous at all that Brian is credited as producer on TWGMTR, despite the fact he probably contributed different amounts to different songs.

-- I don't think Mike's decision to cut off the full-group tour was a wise or prudent one.

But while I stick by those points, I've calmed down (as have most here, it looks like), and come to realize that the end-of-tour  burst of drama was probably just some hot air and mildly hurt feelings. Brian would never have wanted to tour full time with a reunited band, and his level of interest in future recording is probably mercurial at best.

Mike's moves -- as brutal and crass as they seemed at the time -- make a certain amount of sense in terms of his longer-term strategy as a performer. The BBs name doesn't mean the same thing to him as it does to some of us -- and while that may be unfortunate, it is what it is.

And I would like to note that I posted this more than a month ago:

Do you know when Mike wrote it? It's amazing that with all that went on with Mike and Dennis, that Mike wrote a song for Dennis to sing that late in the game. What a complex (more like bizarre) relationship the cousins had – love/hate, musical differences/good collaborations.

On an individual basis, yes, people appear to have a strong opinion as to Mike's feelings. But, after several threads and dozens and dozens of pages, apparently there isn't a lot of agreement on the subject.

Also, this appears to be one of those topics where you believe what you want to believe, and use what you've read to substantiate your opinion. You can cherry-pick a comment here or there, but I don't think Mike showed his hand at all, including his "parting words". I'm still very unsure as to what Mike really wants (post August 2013) for the future of The Beach Boys, whereas a year ago, I didn't think there was any doubt.

I alluded to this in my lengthy post last night. While I'm not exactly sure what Mike is feeling about the future of the band with Brian, I do think (and stated) that Brian burned too many bridges with Mike - professionally - and Mike is probably taking that into strong consideration when making future decisions.

This is always important to keep in mind. Brian has certainly exposed the rest of the band to a lot of drama and stress over the years (as many or all of them have done to each other over the years), so they probably do still keep that in mind.

At the same time, I'm curious to know what Brian or his "camp" did during the reunion that might have made things worse. I personally don't find it a very compelling argument when folks have said something along the lines that "Mike had to sacrifice a lot for this tour" if most of those sacrifices were things like not having 100% control, having to actually let a couple of other people have a say in things, have a "camp" that is equally as controlling and complex as yours, etc. These were all difficult things to deal with I would imagine, a difficult adjustment to the way things have been. But seeing as the group is a group and not a solo act, and that it involves a corporation with shareholders who own the trademark together, I don't really give any of the guys extra credit purely for the general idea of having to compromise and work together and sometimes concede some points on things.

But I think it may well be true that Mike's aversion to continuing the reunion doesn't have much to do with any terrible incident or experience during the reunion itself; indeed, he apparently booked his own shows during (or conceivably even before) the reunion tour.

I don't, in fact I'd never known that factoid until Mike said so in an interview with my friend Howie Edelson last year. David also confirmed to me that Mike told him about wanting a rougher textured lead vocal than what ended up on the record. Mike's quote mentions that he'd first thought of Dennis, and later Bryan Adams as the type of voice he wanted for the song.

For want of a better term, Brian on tour during the C50 was 'high maintenance' compared to Mikes normal touring. Add in Al and David plus the extended band, this rules out many of the smaller markets that Mike targets.

There is a lot more to it sure, but on a business level the numbers just don't add up to me.

This seems a little puzzling to me, since David had worked with the Touring Band, in December of 2011, just prior to the national TV appearances in early 2012, and in the Google interview, David spoke about working with Al's band.  I saw him 3 nights in a row (NY/NJ) in those December, 2011 shows, and Mike announced him as an "original signatory" so I'm not getting the "afterthought" impressions on any level.  He is a "guitar star." Wow!  In working with Brian's band after having worked with the other two, and with his academic training, he is in such a good place.  His lead on Pet Sounds (instrumental) during the Tour, blew people away, and allowed the audience to see his long history with this music in a fuller context even if he was not physically present, he was doing work with very prominent musicians.

Just selfishly, I'd like to see the principals maybe redo/renew a couple of older works, as they did with Do It Again, with a fresh approach, but with the "principals" in authorship.  And, either "Don't Fight the Sea" or Soul Searchin' or whatever tracks of Dennis' and/or Carl's vocals might be in existence, from either Carl's or Dennis' solo works. ProTools or whatever technology out there, might be just the thing.  People reacted so well to the blending of the videos and live accompaniment, in the tributes.  It is so different from 50 years ago, and that's what I call progress.  ;)

I don't think Brian or his "camp" did anything that might have made things worse. What I alluded to in my original (lengthy) post, which Wirestone expanded on, is ....

Maybe - just maybe - Mike is skeptical about Brian "keeping up" his good behavior, for lack of a better term. Would he be able to keep up the extensive touring, the obligations that go with it, the quality performances, the commitment to making a quality record, etc. In other words, would Brian want to show up at Sea World on a hot summer night, and do interviews and pose for pictures, and sing his heart out, not as a reunion tour but as a one-nighter - for a couple of bucks? And for how long?

In the past 51 years, Brian's behavior has been, to put it kindly, inconsistent. But, Mike and the rest of the band overlooked it because of the benefits that Brian brought to the table, whether it be a song or two or an appearance or two. To paraphrase Mr. Dylan, and speculating about Mike's thoughts, "I used to care, but things have changed..."

"The Spaceman" disagrees. If Radio is provisional and corrupted by illusion, so is Sunflower. The control of the album by Brian's camp is actually a totally honest and natural course of events. It is just that this time, his camp doesn't include other members of the band. He has been propped up by other people production-wise since the end of Smile. The guy who mainly propped him up from 1967-1977, Carl, is gone. The remaining members aren't his equal. Anyone who thinks a better album than Radio could be created with equal input from Al and David is fooling themselves. Even Mike's input should be limited to providing lyrics.

Yeh, this potential album by 'the band' would not only be impossible to create, but would be terrible if it were.

Mike has never really been a producer. I think Al is a great songwriter and a fine producer, but it seems to take him a long time to get something finished. Carl was the main producer of the group during the 'wilderness era' or whatever you call it ... Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland -- those are his records. Carl basically stopped producing after the '70s, and was content to let outsiders run the show in the '80s-'90s. I'd really love to hear more about what he told that guy from the High Llamas.

While I think Brian is capable of producing an album these days, whether or not he is interested in doing it (or willing to) is unknown.

The years are creeping in. Anything that is going to happen needs to happen soon -- one more chance in my view.

The only hope is for Brian and Mike to get together, write a group of songs (who cares if the lyrics are about cruising and beaches? or girls or gettin back together or wild honey in the honey jar? -- revisit some old unfinished songs if need be like 'goin to the beach' or whatever), get whoever is left of the Wrecking Crew together with some younger people who know how to make 1960s-sounding records (without the aide of a computer), have them aide BW (and fill in the gaps where needed) in the back tracks, get the guys around a microphone (really), double, triple em up, whatever you have to do ... the result, good or bad glad or sad, will be history. Now that's a sentence.

Absolutely agreed. I'd be fine with, say, a 12-track album with ten tracks written by Brian and one each from Al and Bruce, but much more input than that isn't really warranted (though I doubt Al has written more than one more song since Postcard, given his slow rate of work).

To the extent that the surviving members other than Brian are artists at all (and they are -- Al, for example, is as good a singer as I've heard, and that is an art at least as much as songwriting is) their artistic talents are as performers, not writers.

I'm guessing that on some level there is a lot of lingering resentment for what Brian put Mike and others through over the years, probably a lot f wild stories that have never leaked out.  And my guess is, purely a guess, is they now have to deal with Brian's wife, who is not a musician and has no history in the music business, what a hassle.

I'm with you on the resentment aspect. I sometimes think that Mike could put the pre-1983 craziness behind, chalking it up to drugs, the Wilson family, Landy, etc. It's the post-1996 BW solo years when Brian did and said some things that I don't think sat too well with Mike that might be lingering.

The Melinda factor is more complicated. I do think she was behind some questionable career moves over the years, and, it might've been a hassle dealing with during the reunion. I have no idea. There is one way where I think Melinda was an asset. Melinda could "deliver" Brian. Do you ever get the feeling that she might've guaranteed or was the driving force behind Brian showing up, being in condition to perform, not quitting, basically being a responsible professional. Actually, for the most part, he has been professional in his solo career also. I give her credit for that, and I think she is crucial to any further relationship between Brian and The Beach Boys.

Well WE have worked it all out, now let's hope those guys get in the studio and make the album we have crafted for them!  I think we all are damned curious about what they have to say and how they can contribute, each according to their relative strength and ability, plus the always unknown role of the muses. We just want them to do well and be fulfilled and give us more of the unique joy that all of the BB music brings. I stand with all of you, my friends, as I share your longing for the best and most fulfilling art we can hope to share together as fans.

Mike is pretty well managed by his wife at this point, as well. Reports point to tension between the manager/wives on the tour, and that heavily contributing to the end of the enterprise for the near future.

A couple years back I once dared make a comparison between Best and Marks on this board which ignited some overly-obsessive backlashing by other members whom thought I was comparing their talents.  I was simply noting a similarity between their relatively short tenures of their respective bands.  Didn't think it was an unfair comparison in that regard, and still don't find it unfair today.  Lot of fellow board members couldn't handle it.  Marks is clearly the more talented of the two, but I think Best does just fine based on his name recognition alone.    

[Uh oh, think I just did it again...I'm gonna go hide now... :police:]

"The Sweetdude" agrees with The Spaceman for the most part. I think our friend the professor, as good of intentions as he has, wants something that I don't think The Beach Boys would ever want.

The Beach Boys haven't been a classic self-contained band since when? Some time in the '60s I guess. The album considered as their best work, Pet Sounds barely has them on it instrumentally. And even if they wanted to be a self-contained band, they don't have a drummer. They could get Ricky Fataar if they wanted to look with "Beach Boys" ranks, but lets be honest, that ain't happenin'. The best Beach Boys work is also considered to be written by Brian Wilson. So what sense would it make to not give him the majority of the songs to do his thing? Al Jardine hardly hand any new self-written material on his own solo album, and David Marks, well, good ol' Dave never had a Beach Boys writing credit in the first place, so why start now?


I don't quite understand the need to bring in the Wrecking Crew. How about Brian brings in who he is comfortable with (i.e. Darian, Jeff, etc) and works with them? And as far as working with computers? Well, pretty much everybody works with computers in the music world these days. I understand what you are looking for is more of a "classicist" Beach Boys record with the Wrecking Crew and the guys all singing around one mic and recording in analog and whatever. Which is cool if that's what they wanted to do. But maybe Brian doesn't wanna make 1960s sounding records. He already made those. Maybe he wants to make records that sounds like Brian Wilson in the 2010s. I'm not saying Brian chose to have Skunk Baxter and that the sound of the last album doesn't have a whole lot to do with Joe Thomas.

I personally would rather leave all this in the hands of Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, David Marks and Bruce Johnston. They are a lot better at making Beach Boys albums than us. And even though all this nonsense is going on, I do think we will see at least one more new Beach Boys album.

Get out from under the bed!

Andrew Hickey said it was the media perception, and he may be right. I just don't recall reading that in any stories last year. Not that it didn't happen.

Off the top of my head there was a story in the Australian Daily Telegraph which led with the comparison. There were others as well. It didn't come up much mostly because Dave himself barely came up in those stories.

It's true. How about the Rolling Stone article that had interviews with Brian, Mike, Al and Bruce. They even had quotes from Jeff Foskett and another band member or two, I'm pretty sure. But not a word from Dave.

David's situation is not the same as Pete Best's; we all know that by this point thanks for the work of Jon Stebbins and others. But I agree that a vague comparison by fans on this board is not inappropriate. The uninitiated media types that might make such a comparison would do so crassly and compare the two too directly. But among those of us who know how he was on those first five albums, signed the Capitol deal, etc., I think we also know that there are some vague comparisons to make, mostly along the lines of "early member who missed out on the fame and fortune that occured after they left." Yes, David was still in the band when the BB's were extremely popular, whereas Best was gone literally right as the Beatles were even getting a record deal. But if anything, I've always felt Best's situation was much more sad. At least David Marks was able to collect some royalties over the years and really got to appear on some albums, and was years later embraced by the band again. Not so for Pete Best, who presumably never met any of the other Beatles again after getting canned and only finally collected any substantial royalties when they dug up the stuff he played on for the "Anthology" project.

So I do understand scoffing at the Best/Marks comparison, but such objections do occasionally seem to happen in such a way that is even sadder for Best, sort of like "Hey, don't compare Marks to Best. Marks isn't anywhere near as much of a sad unfortunate sack as Best is."

I'm really excited that I'm finally seeing Brian Wilson and Al Jardine. David Marks is a great bonus for sure.

If one chooses to look at the hard info...It is really a stupid comparison whether you are a fan or a journalist or whatever. I think it was Awesoman above who rationalized that he wasn't comparing talent level, but talent level is not what makes the comparison ridiculous, it is just the simple facts. Many years ago I was among those who stupidly made the comparison, and that was without giving any thought to what the facts were regarding the history of their respective bands. I think its an innocent comparison, maybe a lazy comparison, and one that doesn't hold up to even minor scrutiny. One guy was sacked because the group wanted to replace him, the other guy quit because he didn't want to be in the band anymore. One guy was fired before the band signed a major record contract, the other guy walked away after recording a bunch of hit records. When Best left...the Beatles biggest audiences were in the hundreds, when David left the Beach Boys were playing to as many as 10,000. Best was gone before the Beatles had any level of national fame, they were still a club level band when he was there. He's not on any of the Beatles signature hits and he's not on any of their classic LP's. Best wasn't in the band when they hit major fame. If Pete Best had been the drummer on Please Please Me, Twist and Shout, I Saw Her Standing There, She Loves You, I Want To Hold Your Hand and Can't Buy Me Love and the Beatles first four of five LP's then the comparison would be accurate. One thing is for sure, both lost out on a lot of money, but David still got some $$ from day one to now, Best got nothing until a lump settlement in the 90's. The Beatles never talked to, and still don't talk to Pete...David remains close to all the boys. I suppose you can awkwardly spin it to make some kind of tenuous comparison, innocently or lazily, but even the slightest glance at the facts reveal its a deeply flawed comparison.

That would be this then.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/beach-boys-guitarist-david-marks-tells-us-about-the-bands-50-year-heatwave/story-fnejobe2-1226457213408

http://www.classichitsandoldies.com/v2/2013/01/28/brian-wilson-to-be-joined-by-beach-boys-band-mates-jardine-marks-at-july-concert/

The PR machine for Brian, Al and David is in motion.

They really are sticking with that horribly 'shopped picture, ain't they?

It seems they are. To the unenlightened, the general public, it will seem three BBs are teaming up for "fun, fun, fun".

Has the original photo been posted online anywhere?

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/02/154155820/the-beach-boys-the-harmony-is-endless-after-all

Same photo shoot, different shot. (I think)

Photographer is the well known Guy Webster.  Some cool shots of Brian and the Boys on his website.

http://guywebster.com/photos/show/632

He Photoshopped Brian's gut (either that, or Brian has an amazing suck-it-in technique).

It's on the back of the CD jewel case:

(http://www.covershut.com/back_covers/The-Beach-Boys-Thats-Why-God-Made-The-Radio-Back-Cover-67223.jpg)

Knew  that Andrew, I have the CD. . The question was is the original photo online. I can't find it.

Wait, you just put it online, so you have done it again.  Thank you AGD.

Just got my tickets for this today!
So excited!

Love this:

(http://www.lepoint.fr/images/2012/06/04/592326-312887-jpg_406448_434x276.jpg)

Looks like Al & Dave might be tickling Mike's ass!

With all this tom foolery though, no-one's telling me these guys didn't have a blast!

I think they did to begin with. By the time I caught them in Australia I noted zero interaction between Mike and Al, Mike and Brian onstage.

There was plenty of interaction onstage at the Wembley show, most of it good-natured, like Al pointing at Mike when he sang the line "a nice old man with a, he had a hat on"

Yes indeed. In fact, considering that a scant few days before, Mike had SACKED BRIAN, ALAN & DAVID FROM THE BAND, they seemed to be happy in each other's company. But then, what do I know of these matters ?

Yes, I'd say so. Though Bruce did point at Mike when he sang "Wendy, don't believe a word he says", but he probably only meant when romancin'.