Brian to play with Al and David, July in Ohio

[Andrew G. Doe]

My dear sir, madam or creature of indeterminate gender, you possess such a talent for putting words into my mouth and incorrectly deducing factoids from perfectly innocuous sentences that a career in politics surely beckons. I heat the Labour Party are recruiting.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Now, to un-derail this thread, given the propensity of BriMel to announce tours piecemeal, it's possible that Alan & David have signed up for the summer - and that would be most interesting - but the phrase "special guests" most frequently translates as "shows up for a song or three": even back in 2006, as I recall (corrections welcomed) Alan didn't join Brian onstage until "Then I Kissed Her" some five songs into the show. I don't see this as Brian, or his people, trying to make a point. They don't need to.

[18thofMay]

Look at what I miss when I am off work! Questioning Andrew? Andrew is respected, JR you are not, how does one earn or warrant respect?

[The Shift]

I'd like to reveal that I'm Andrew's source. I get all my info from this board and pass it to him via PMs. He then posts stuff here, I read it and pass it back to him.

Hence your assurance of its integrity: it came from him, via me via him.

Now, back on topic: what if it's more than one or two dates together? What if Al & Dave are gonna guest on Brian's next album?

Better, what if it's a band album without Mike & Bruce?

Brian. Al. Dave. – B.A.D.

BAD Beach  – what a name for a band!

[Jay]

I've never heard of Fraze Pavillion. Does anybody know how far it is from Sharon, Pennsylvania?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Interesting. My befuddled adversary registered in July 2009, made 22 posts then took a three-year plus time out before returning to, apparently expressly, take a pop at me. I think we've met before, on A. N. Other forum. Possibly IRL. How droll.

[filledeplage]

Interesting to see what this suggests about the inter-band dynamics -- this has all the hallmarks of a BW passive-aggressive power play. And if it actually becomes a full-scale summer tour, there will be a lot of press about how this group has more original BBs in it than the band with the name. Mark my words.

Agreed. And if they make an album, and tour it, it's not good for Mike at all. When Mike agreed to the 50th celebration, he did the "right" thing for the band's legacy - but the wrong thing for himself. He gambled that Brian would do a couple legs, poop out and get tired of everyone, take off - and then Mike would say, "Oh well, I tried" and be "The Beach Boys" again.

Problem being...that didn't happen at all, as we all know. So if Brian, Al and Dave do an album, tour and - because Brian's involved - hit the morning shows and late night shows with new (presumably rock) songs...not good for Mike. He no longer has the "other members have gone, but Mike Love keeps carrying on the Beach Boys legacy" line to lead every phony newspaper write-up. So the irony being that, for Mike - given his apparent motives - the 50th tour was a big mistake; yet, going back to the way things were while the other guys work on new stuff would be an even greater mistake. Classic two wrongs not making a right.

It seems animosity between "camps" has less to do with Mike and Brian and more to do with their people. So, maybe there's the chance each camp will go out and do their stuff this summer - then release MIC in the fall, and hit the studio to do the rock album in the winter for a 2014 tour (similar to the SMiLE Sessions/Reunion/TWGMTR progression). While, personally, I'd still be irked at the irrationality of a band that has LESS Beach Boys than another non-Beach Boys band calling itself "The Beach Boys" - I could live with it if there's more material to follow. That's honestly been my biggest problem with Mike's statements about the current state of the band - not allowing for even the possibility to work as the full band again. Seems more stubborn and mean than "professional."

JR - if people look at some of the elements that made this C50 so great for all who could "be there," then, one factor might be that the band members had worked hard, in their respective context. I have never experienced a show cancellation, with the exception of the Maharishi Tour.  I've seen Brian many times, and he never cancelled a show.  He is a pro.  And, despite his back problems, he got himself on that stage every night. 

Al has a fantastic band, and some members go back as far as the 70's/80's with the BB band.  Dave has appeared with
Mike.  Brian has a great band, but it will be interesting if some of Al's band joins them for whatever lineup they will have. But, if people can step back and apply the very factors that made this year so amazing, it was that they worked "outside" the original model, in my opinion. It made them stronger as performers, and song writers.  Al's album, "Postcard" is a treasure.

And for the same reason, if and when, they come back together to "celebrate another milestone," they will have grown better still.  They are survivors, and did everybody proud with this reunion.  The music will be in more geographic areas, and can never be a bad thing.   

[SMiLE Brian]

The issue is deeper than that, the BBs should be all together using the name. If they are not, the name should be inactive to build up demand for future reunion tours. I think Brian and Al will stay together this time since they are fighting for something very important, the future of the BBs.

I don't think Al and Brian are fighting for the future of the Beach Boys by touring together. Or else, why did Brian agree to give Mike the touring rights to the name in the first place, or why doesn't he take it to court instead of touring with Al Jardine, which isn't going to accomplish a thing in terms of depriving Mike of the touring name rights? I think Brian and Al and Dave are just out to have fun and to keep some publicity out there for themselves, but it will have no affect on the Beach Boys' touring name rights or whether they ultimately reunite with Mike and Bruce for another tour and/or album.

I'm gonna have to agree with KittyKat on this one. SMiLE Brian, did Brian recruit Al and David for a fight? Do you view this concert as a "jab" or a "left hook"? I wonder how Al or David would feel about that, to be "used"?  Maybe Al could get out his acoustic guitar at the concert and play "Only A Pawn In Their Game".

And, is that what you think of Brian? Do you think he now performs, not for the enjoyment or for artistic reasons, but to win something? Sad...

Who said Brian was using the two,if all three want to perform to keep an interest in the full BBs to get M&B to stop play playing games with a licence voted on in 1998. The BBs looked to be dead for good in 1998 with Carl dead, Brian wanting a solo career, and Al banned from touring with the BBs. If the members want to keep touring together as the full BBs, what's wrong with that? M&B's time has passed as BBs group, its time for the reunited group to show what they got.

[Matt H]

I've never heard of Fraze Pavillion. Does anybody know how far it is from Sharon, Pennsylvania?

It is in Kettering Ohio, right outside of Dayton.

[ArchStanton]

Man, I hope some more dates are on the schedule - specifically some more Midwestern dates since we didn't get much during C50...

[Sheriff John Stone]

The issue is deeper than that, the BBs should be all together using the name. If they are not, the name should be inactive to build up demand for future reunion tours. I think Brian and Al will stay together this time since they are fighting for something very important, the future of the BBs.

I don't think Al and Brian are fighting for the future of the Beach Boys by touring together. Or else, why did Brian agree to give Mike the touring rights to the name in the first place, or why doesn't he take it to court instead of touring with Al Jardine, which isn't going to accomplish a thing in terms of depriving Mike of the touring name rights? I think Brian and Al and Dave are just out to have fun and to keep some publicity out there for themselves, but it will have no affect on the Beach Boys' touring name rights or whether they ultimately reunite with Mike and Bruce for another tour and/or album.

I'm gonna have to agree with KittyKat on this one. SMiLE Brian, did Brian recruit Al and David for a fight? Do you view this concert as a "jab" or a "left hook"? I wonder how Al or David would feel about that, to be "used"?  Maybe Al could get out his acoustic guitar at the concert and play "Only A Pawn In Their Game".

And, is that what you think of Brian? Do you think he now performs, not for the enjoyment or for artistic reasons, but to win something? Sad...

Who said Brian was using the two,if all three want to perform to keep an interest in the full BBs to get M&B to stop play playing games with a licence voted on in 1998.

You said it. In your above quote, you wrote "I think Brian and Al will stay together this time SINCE THEY ARE FIGHTING for something very important, the future of the BBs."

So, the last time Brian and Al toured together, it was just for the fun of it. Now, they are performing together to fight for something? The future of the Beach Boys?

Based on your theory, if they are fighting for something, then there must be sides taken. Us against them. Do you think Brian called Al and Dave, or do you think it was the other way around. Do think David called Brian and asked to appear with him? I would bet that Brian(andhiswifeandmanagers) initiated the contact for this appearance (for reasons that differ from yours). So, based on YOUR theory, Brian recruited Al and David to WIN something.

[bgas]

The issue is deeper than that, the BBs should be all together using the name. If they are not, the name should be inactive to build up demand for future reunion tours. I think Brian and Al will stay together this time since they are fighting for something very important, the future of the BBs.

I don't think Al and Brian are fighting for the future of the Beach Boys by touring together. Or else, why did Brian agree to give Mike the touring rights to the name in the first place, or why doesn't he take it to court instead of touring with Al Jardine, which isn't going to accomplish a thing in terms of depriving Mike of the touring name rights? I think Brian and Al and Dave are just out to have fun and to keep some publicity out there for themselves, but it will have no affect on the Beach Boys' touring name rights or whether they ultimately reunite with Mike and Bruce for another tour and/or album.

I'm gonna have to agree with KittyKat on this one. SMiLE Brian, did Brian recruit Al and David for a fight? Do you view this concert as a "jab" or a "left hook"? I wonder how Al or David would feel about that, to be "used"?  Maybe Al could get out his acoustic guitar at the concert and play "Only A Pawn In Their Game".

And, is that what you think of Brian? Do you think he now performs, not for the enjoyment or for artistic reasons, but to win something? Sad...

Who said Brian was using the two,if all three want to perform to keep an interest in the full BBs to get M&B to stop play playing games with a licence voted on in 1998.

You said it. In your above quote, you wrote "I think Brian and Al will stay together this time SINCE THEY ARE FIGHTING for something very important, the future of the BBs."

So, the last time Brian and Al toured together, it was just for the fun of it. Now, they are performing together to fight for something? The future of the Beach Boys?

Based on your theory, if they are fighting for something, then there must be sides taken. Us against them. Do you think Brian called Al and Dave, or do you think it was the other way around. Do think David called Brian and asked to appear with him? I would bet that Brian(andhiswifeandmanagers) initiated the contact for this appearance (for reasons that differ from yours). So, based on YOUR theory, Brian recruited Al and David to WIN something.

They must be fighting for the right to PARTY!!

[SMiLE Brian]

The issue is deeper than that, the BBs should be all together using the name. If they are not, the name should be inactive to build up demand for future reunion tours. I think Brian and Al will stay together this time since they are fighting for something very important, the future of the BBs.

I don't think Al and Brian are fighting for the future of the Beach Boys by touring together. Or else, why did Brian agree to give Mike the touring rights to the name in the first place, or why doesn't he take it to court instead of touring with Al Jardine, which isn't going to accomplish a thing in terms of depriving Mike of the touring name rights? I think Brian and Al and Dave are just out to have fun and to keep some publicity out there for themselves, but it will have no affect on the Beach Boys' touring name rights or whether they ultimately reunite with Mike and Bruce for another tour and/or album.

I'm gonna have to agree with KittyKat on this one. SMiLE Brian, did Brian recruit Al and David for a fight? Do you view this concert as a "jab" or a "left hook"? I wonder how Al or David would feel about that, to be "used"?  Maybe Al could get out his acoustic guitar at the concert and play "Only A Pawn In Their Game".

And, is that what you think of Brian? Do you think he now performs, not for the enjoyment or for artistic reasons, but to win something? Sad...

Who said Brian was using the two,if all three want to perform to keep an interest in the full BBs to get M&B to stop play playing games with a licence voted on in 1998.

You said it. In your above quote, you wrote "I think Brian and Al will stay together this time SINCE THEY ARE FIGHTING for something very important, the future of the BBs."

So, the last time Brian and Al toured together, it was just for the fun of it. Now, they are performing together to fight for something? The future of the Beach Boys?

Based on your theory, if they are fighting for something, then there must be sides taken. Us against them. Do you think Brian called Al and Dave, or do you think it was the other way around. Do think David called Brian and asked to appear with him? I would bet that Brian(andhiswifeandmanagers) initiated the contact for this appearance (for reasons that differ from yours). So, based on YOUR theory, Brian recruited Al and David to WIN something.

The performance might be for fun, but the three might be sending a signal to M&B that they are willing to perform and tour so they can all reunite as the BBs. All everybody wants is the C50 lineup of the BBs, what is so wrong about Brian sending a signal to Mike that the BBs should be together, not apart.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The issue is deeper than that, the BBs should be all together using the name. If they are not, the name should be inactive to build up demand for future reunion tours. I think Brian and Al will stay together this time since they are fighting for something very important, the future of the BBs.

I don't think Al and Brian are fighting for the future of the Beach Boys by touring together. Or else, why did Brian agree to give Mike the touring rights to the name in the first place, or why doesn't he take it to court instead of touring with Al Jardine, which isn't going to accomplish a thing in terms of depriving Mike of the touring name rights? I think Brian and Al and Dave are just out to have fun and to keep some publicity out there for themselves, but it will have no affect on the Beach Boys' touring name rights or whether they ultimately reunite with Mike and Bruce for another tour and/or album.

I'm gonna have to agree with KittyKat on this one. SMiLE Brian, did Brian recruit Al and David for a fight? Do you view this concert as a "jab" or a "left hook"? I wonder how Al or David would feel about that, to be "used"?  Maybe Al could get out his acoustic guitar at the concert and play "Only A Pawn In Their Game".

And, is that what you think of Brian? Do you think he now performs, not for the enjoyment or for artistic reasons, but to win something? Sad...

Who said Brian was using the two,if all three want to perform to keep an interest in the full BBs to get M&B to stop play playing games with a licence voted on in 1998.

You said it. In your above quote, you wrote "I think Brian and Al will stay together this time SINCE THEY ARE FIGHTING for something very important, the future of the BBs."

So, the last time Brian and Al toured together, it was just for the fun of it. Now, they are performing together to fight for something? The future of the Beach Boys?

Based on your theory, if they are fighting for something, then there must be sides taken. Us against them. Do you think Brian called Al and Dave, or do you think it was the other way around. Do think David called Brian and asked to appear with him? I would bet that Brian(andhiswifeandmanagers) initiated the contact for this appearance (for reasons that differ from yours). So, based on YOUR theory, Brian recruited Al and David to WIN something.

The performance might be for fun, but the three might be sending a signal to M&B that they are willing to perform and tour so they can all reunite as the BBs. All everybody wants is the C50 lineup of the BBs, what is so wrong about Brian sending a signal to Mike that the BBs should be together, not apart.

You know, SMiLE Brian, maybe you're right. Seriously, maybe this is some strategy or game concocted by Brian and hiswifeandmanagers to send a signal to Mike. I mean, I wouldn't put it past them. But I sincerely hope it's not. Think about it. Like I posted above, it would be really sad for a 70-something husband and grandfather, a mentally ill and drug addicted man, a multi-millionaire, a guy who gets his enjoyment these days from going out to lunch and listening to oldies radio stations, to STILL be engaging in these types of games. And, yet, to your point, that might be exactly what's going on.

As I and numerous other posters have suggested, if this IS SOMETHING that is important to Brian (and Al), there are better ways to handle it, specifically behind closed doors. Unfortunately, Beach Boys' history will show that the wrong path will be taken.

[Mikie]

Al has a fantastic band, and some members go back as far as the 70's/80's with the BB band. Brian has a great band, but it will be interesting if some of Al's band joins them for whatever lineup they will have.

I seriously doubt that's going to happen. Of course it would be neat to see Hinsche, Carter, Figueroa, and Matt and Adam up on stage with them, but there's a very slim chance of that happening.

[filledeplage]

Al has a fantastic band, and some members go back as far as the 70's/80's with the BB band. Brian has a great band, but it will be interesting if some of Al's band joins them for whatever lineup they will have.

I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

If I have learned anything as a BB fan, is that anything/everything is possible, and when you least expect it.

SMiLE, C50...

[Mikie]

Well, shoot, invite Blondie and Ricky too then!  Ricky joined Brian and Al on stage in Oakland in '07, so yeah, anything's possible! But you gotta pay all those supporting musicians.  From a business stand point, I doubt that would be profitable. Why do you think Mike couldn't wait to get back to doing the Mike & Bruce show so soon after the C50 tour?

[filledeplage]

Well, shoot, invite Blondie and Ricky too then!  Ricky joined Brian and Al on stage in Oakland in '07, so yeah, anything's possible! But you gotta pay all those supporting musicians.  From a business stand point, I doubt that would be profitable. Why do you think Mike couldn't wait to get back to doing the Mike & Bruce show so soon after the C50 tour?

Mikie - one has nothing to do with the other.  C50 was a special touring event. Nothing more, nothing less. This is not where a decision is made.  From a business standpoint, I could not venture an opinion.  I'm not in that business.  I haven't read what the lineup is.  And it is good they are all out there performing the music. 

Ya, anything is possible.  Brian doing Gershwin, Pet Sounds Live, SMiLE live, TLOS.  Amazing.  And after Carl's passing, totally unexpected. Such a great surprise!

And, I just like to stay tuned...I'm never disappointed. 

[Mikie]

The point I was trying to make was that it's a business decision concerning which musicians are on stage with each band at a given time. I'd love to see it, but it doesn't make sense to have Al's band join Brian's band. Brian already has a full band, just like Mike (and Al) already have full bands! In comparing this to the C50 band, it was a combination (partial) of Brian's band and Mike's band together. And Mike indicated that the C50 tour, after all the costs of musicians and other factors, wasn't a big money maker. It's a business. They ain't out there just to make the fans happy all the time and travelling around - they're out there to feed themselves and pay the mortgage for them and their families!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Of course, there's a financial aspect in Mike wanting to get back to touring with Bruce in the others, but a possibly more important factor is that he'll be calling the shots as opposed to doing things by committee as per C50. To get last year's touring up and running, everyone had to make concessions and compromises, and Mike's were to use most of Brian's band with just two of his guys (and props to him for agreeing that, it worked like a dream), and to temporarily cede the tiller to BRI & the wivesandmanagers. After some two decades of calling the shots, that had to be hard.

Also, irrespective of how much they each made from the C50, Mike also had to suspend touring and doubtless experienced a net fall in income (as, of course did Brian & Alan as well). So, not so black & white.

[filledeplage]

Of course, there's a financial aspect in Mike wanting to get back to touring with Bruce in the others, but a possibly more important factor is that he'll be calling the shots as opposed to doing things by committee as per C50. To get last year's touring up and running, everyone had to make concessions and compromises, and Mike's were to use most of Brian's band with just two of his guys (and props to him for agreeing that, it worked like a dream), and to temporarily cede the tiller to BRI & the wivesandmanagers. After some two decades of calling the shots, that had to be hard.

Also, irrespective of how much they each made from the C50, Mike also had to suspend touring and doubtless experienced a net fall in income (as, of course did Brian & Alan as well). So, not so black & white.

There is also, perhaps Mike's (and the others ) "building" a band, from Ground Zero, and really making it, in the face of critics, and pride in doing it.  

One might be hard pressed to leave that behind, but, such decisions are made in the "board room" and not on a message "board."  

The reunion shows were outstanding, emotional, and miraculous.  But I can't say I've seen any of the working bands put on a bad show.  It maybe be an "event driven" determination as to what they choose to celebrate by either touring or recording.  I'm just staying tuned!  

[urbanite]

I'd like to know if Mike made more, or less, on the C50 tour.  I paid $175. for a sold out show at the Hollywood Bowl, which is probably a lot more than they charge for the M&B tour.  Although there would be 5 people to share the proceeds with on C50.

[Pretty Funky]

Of course, there's a financial aspect in Mike wanting to get back to touring with Bruce in the others, but a possibly more important factor is that he'll be calling the shots as opposed to doing things by committee as per C50. To get last year's touring up and running, everyone had to make concessions and compromises, and Mike's were to use most of Brian's band with just two of his guys (and props to him for agreeing that, it worked like a dream), and to temporarily cede the tiller to BRI & the wivesandmanagers. After some two decades of calling the shots, that had to be hard.

Also, irrespective of how much they each made from the C50, Mike also had to suspend touring and doubtless experienced a net fall in income (as, of course did Brian & Alan as well). So, not so black & white.

Am I reading this right. Brian and *cough* Al made less money during the C50 than they normally would?

[Pretty Funky]

I'd like to know if Mike made more, or less, on the C50 tour.  I paid $175. for a sold out show at the Hollywood Bowl, which is probably a lot more than they charge for the M&B tour.  Although there would be 5 people to share the proceeds with on C50.

A lot more than 5. Touring party was over 40 at one point. I would suspect Dave would have got a lot less than Brian. Brian had his own bus plus a lot more was spent on promotion. My guess would be a company paid the band a set amount per gig or per leg. The band was able to top that up with the paid meet and greets, merchandising and signings plus any income from future (now released) DVD and (later) Live album.

My reading here and other boards is Mike pretty much controls the M&B tours which are run on a shoe string compared to the C50.

[TonyW]

Gee I'd love to know when the current BB touring licence agreement expires ... and then be a fly on the wall at the BRI meeting where the agreement is discussed.

 

I want to be at the BRI meeting with popcorn in hand...

If the M&B show is bringing in the cash my guess is that the meeting would go well.

I would suspect that Brian and al have done okay from the M&B show.
 

On the other hand if the WilsonJardineMarks show is out grossing the M&B show (quite possible) and the former aren't paying royalyties and Mikes's not pulling the bucks he's used to .... then .... hhhmmmmmmmmmm .... who would be the agrieved?? Such a meeting wouldn't be about who is happy, it would be about who is pissed off.