Wow...Extreme denial regarding Wrecking Crew replacing Beach Boys

[DonnyL]

and what the hell is that weird aggressive clacking thing in 'pet sounds' (the track) during the breakdown? I've been trying figure that one out forever!

[KittyKat]

Lineup on That's Not Me:

Basic Track:

Brian on Organ
Carl on Guitar
Dennis on Drums
Ron on Tambourine

Overdubs:

Carl on 12-string guitar
Probably Brian on Dano bass, or maybe Fender
Someone on clicky clack percussion

Then they just overdubbed that same thing again.

That's some nice guitar work by Carl.  Is it 12 string? And does it use any effects? It has that twang to it.

Yes, it is categorically 12-string.  The effect is the chorusing of the two overdubs.

Well, I should qualify.  The 12-string work is the overdub fill type of stuff.  The basic track sounds to me like it could be Carl's Jag or even a Strat.  No effects on that, although there are a couple of times it does sound a little weird, almost like there ARE two guitars playing.

I've bugged various people for years to ask what happened to the complete session tape for That's Not Me.  The UM tapes do not have the whole session, but the PS Box has the excerpt, so I don't know why the bootleggers didn't have access to it.  That session tape would be a real joy to hear, in toto.

Is the guitar possibly run through a Leslie speaker? It reminds me of the kind of guitar sound in the Beatles "Don't Bring Me Down" (Ringo track on white album), and I'm pretty sure that was Leslie speaker.

[guitarfool2002]

and what the hell is that weird aggressive clacking thing in 'pet sounds' (the track) during the breakdown? I've been trying figure that one out forever!

Please post a specific track time so we know which clacking you're talking about - there's more than one "clack" on that song.  If we're on the same page thinking of the same sound, I always thought it was a bongo drum of some kind, or something with a harder drum skin similar to a bongo played with a stick.

I don't think Hal's kit had that clacker mounted on the rack...or maybe he did...

[guitarfool2002]

Is the guitar possibly run through a Leslie speaker? It reminds me of the kind of guitar sound in the Beatles "Don't Bring Me Down" (Ringo track on white album), and I'm pretty sure that was Leslie speaker.

I don't hear a Leslie on "That's Not Me" guitar part(s), there is no rotary sound fast or slow on that guitar. The echo/delay/chamber effect may be chorusing it a bit.

Brian's best Leslie guitar sound on the album is the lead guitar-through-Leslie on Pet Sounds, the title track. You can hear the thing spinning around in the cabinet before the take on the session tapes, noisy as hell. 

[DonnyL]

and what the hell is that weird aggressive clacking thing in 'pet sounds' (the track) during the breakdown? I've been trying figure that one out forever!

Please post a specific track time so we know which clacking you're talking about - there's more than one "clack" on that song.  If we're on the same page thinking of the same sound, I always thought it was a bongo drum of some kind, or something with a harder drum skin similar to a bongo played with a stick.

I don't think Hal's kit had that clacker mounted on the rack...or maybe he did...

ha, well let's see ... not the drum sticks clicking together throughout, not the tambourine, not the guiro ... most prominent section starts around 1:35 ... it's kind of a sinister, aggressive thing. I'm starting to think it might actually be a muted electric guitar being hit by something!

[hypehat]

I always thought those were bongos through quite a lot of reverb/echo..... the idea that it's a palm muted guitar being strummed/hit rhythmically is kinda wild!

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Bongos.

[guitarfool2002]

and what the hell is that weird aggressive clacking thing in 'pet sounds' (the track) during the breakdown? I've been trying figure that one out forever!

Please post a specific track time so we know which clacking you're talking about - there's more than one "clack" on that song.  If we're on the same page thinking of the same sound, I always thought it was a bongo drum of some kind, or something with a harder drum skin similar to a bongo played with a stick.

I don't think Hal's kit had that clacker mounted on the rack...or maybe he did...

ha, well let's see ... not the drum sticks clicking together throughout, not the tambourine, not the guiro ... most prominent section starts around 1:35 ... it's kind of a sinister, aggressive thing. I'm starting to think it might actually be a muted electric guitar being hit by something!

Ok, we were hearing the same section - My take: The percussive constant 16th-note based part is a bongo of some kind. The sound you're hearing is one of the lead guitar tracks, going through the Leslie, playing some hard staccato chord jabs or "stabs" as a horn section would call it. All those glorious 1965 studio effects make it sound more than it actually is, but it's the lead guitar hitting and muting a chord.

The whole song is full of echo and various reverb and room sounds...great for that menacing sound. Run, James, run!  One of my favorite little subtle production touches on the album is that acoustic guitar strumming chords that you can barely hear but is there hitting some neat voicings in this same breakdown section. One of those parts you feel more than actually hear.

And as much as I am a huge fan of Geoff Emerick and his work which I consider to be among the best recorded music of the 20th century, this title track "Pet Sounds" can be used as a mythbuster of sorts for those folks who credit Emerick with being the first to put instruments other than a Hammond organ through the Leslie speaker on Tomorrow Never Knows - and I see him get credit for that, though not as much in recent years. Not saying Brian/Pet Sounds was the first either, but it was before Revolver.

[guitarfool2002]

I always thought those were bongos through quite a lot of reverb/echo..... the idea that it's a palm muted guitar being strummed/hit rhythmically is kinda wild!

It's just a few quick and loud chord stabs I think Donny is thinking of, though (I assume...), not the constant percolating sound. For a similar effect, and probably the most famous and infamous of this kind of guitar sound, check out the beginning of Scotty Moore's second solo on Elvis' Hound Dog. It sounds like Scotty took a club or wooden board and whacked his guitar neck before playing the actual notes on that! He basically grabbed a few random frets, slid his fretting hand, and whacked the strings very hard.

That second Hound Dog solo is one of the most joyous moments of pure live energy and almost total musical abandon you'll ever hear on a rock record.   

[I. Spaceman]

I always thought those were bongos through quite a lot of reverb/echo..... the idea that it's a palm muted guitar being strummed/hit rhythmically is kinda wild!

It's just a few quick and loud chord stabs I think Donny is thinking of, though (I assume...), not the constant percolating sound. For a similar effect, and probably the most famous and infamous of this kind of guitar sound, check out the beginning of Scotty Moore's second solo on Elvis' Hound Dog. It sounds like Scotty took a club or wooden board and whacked his guitar neck before playing the actual notes on that! He basically grabbed a few random frets, slid his fretting hand, and whacked the strings very hard.

That second Hound Dog solo is one of the most joyous moments of pure live energy and almost total musical abandon you'll ever hear on a rock record.   

You're damn right. That moment on Hound Dog is thee beginning of true rock and roll chaos. No Pete Townshend style without that moment, and knowing what a solid fan of Elvis young Jimi Hendrix was, that may have been a major spark for him.

[DonnyL]

I always thought those were bongos through quite a lot of reverb/echo..... the idea that it's a palm muted guitar being strummed/hit rhythmically is kinda wild!

It's just a few quick and loud chord stabs I think Donny is thinking of, though (I assume...), not the constant percolating sound. For a similar effect, and probably the most famous and infamous of this kind of guitar sound, check out the beginning of Scotty Moore's second solo on Elvis' Hound Dog. It sounds like Scotty took a club or wooden board and whacked his guitar neck before playing the actual notes on that! He basically grabbed a few random frets, slid his fretting hand, and whacked the strings very hard.

That second Hound Dog solo is one of the most joyous moments of pure live energy and almost total musical abandon you'll ever hear on a rock record.   

thanks for the info ...

no, i am talking about the bongo-ish part (I was able to identify the guitar stabs previously) ...

i always assumed it was some kind of bongo, but when listening lately it sounds like it could be something else. it's so quacky/clicky to be a bongo ... but maybe the edge is being struck by a stick or something.

[Aegir]

Lineup on That's Not Me:

Basic Track:

Brian on Organ
Carl on Guitar
Dennis on Drums
Ron on Tambourine

Overdubs:

Carl on 12-string guitar
Probably Brian on Dano bass, or maybe Fender
Someone on clicky clack percussion

Then they just overdubbed that same thing again.

That's some nice guitar work by Carl.  Is it 12 string? And does it use any effects? It has that twang to it.

Yes, it is categorically 12-string.  The effect is the chorusing of the two overdubs.

Well, I should qualify.  The 12-string work is the overdub fill type of stuff.  The basic track sounds to me like it could be Carl's Jag or even a Strat.  No effects on that, although there are a couple of times it does sound a little weird, almost like there ARE two guitars playing.

I've bugged various people for years to ask what happened to the complete session tape for That's Not Me.  The UM tapes do not have the whole session, but the PS Box has the excerpt, so I don't know why the bootleggers didn't have access to it.  That session tape would be a real joy to hear, in toto.

Is the guitar possibly run through a Leslie speaker? It reminds me of the kind of guitar sound in the Beatles "Don't Bring Me Down" (Ringo track on white album), and I'm pretty sure that was Leslie speaker.

Don't Bring Me Down is an ELO song. Are you thinking of Don't Pass Me By? I haven't listened to that in awhile and I can't recall the That's Not Me guitar sound being present in it.

[I. Spaceman]

There is no guitar on Don't Pass Me By.

[bgas]

Lineup on That's Not Me:

Basic Track:

Brian on Organ
Carl on Guitar
Dennis on Drums
Ron on Tambourine

Overdubs:

Carl on 12-string guitar
Probably Brian on Dano bass, or maybe Fender
Someone on clicky clack percussion

Then they just overdubbed that same thing again.

That's some nice guitar work by Carl.  Is it 12 string? And does it use any effects? It has that twang to it.

Yes, it is categorically 12-string.  The effect is the chorusing of the two overdubs.

Well, I should qualify.  The 12-string work is the overdub fill type of stuff.  The basic track sounds to me like it could be Carl's Jag or even a Strat.  No effects on that, although there are a couple of times it does sound a little weird, almost like there ARE two guitars playing.

I've bugged various people for years to ask what happened to the complete session tape for That's Not Me.  The UM tapes do not have the whole session, but the PS Box has the excerpt, so I don't know why the bootleggers didn't have access to it.  That session tape would be a real joy to hear, in toto.

Is the guitar possibly run through a Leslie speaker? It reminds me of the kind of guitar sound in the Beatles "Don't Bring Me Down" (Ringo track on white album), and I'm pretty sure that was Leslie speaker.

Don't Bring Me Down is an ELO song. Are you thinking of Don't Pass Me By? I haven't listened to that in awhile and I can't recall the That's Not Me guitar sound being present in it.

"Don't Let Me Down", B-side of the Get Back single

[Aegir]

There is no guitar on Don't Pass Me By.

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to say that, not having heard the song in awhile. rying to recreate the track in my mind the only instruments that really stand out are piano, drums, fiddle.

And Don't Let Me Down is certainly not a Ringo track on the white album! Though that might be what Kitty Kat is referring to. The lead guitar is comparable.

[I. Spaceman]

What was being referred to, likely, are the two Leslie's pianos on Don't Pass Me By.

[KittyKat]

Oh, heck, I don't remember my Beatles song titles too well  . I haven't listened in years. I was just remembering something about Leslie speakers that I read in Beatles' session books, when I used to read those. For some reason, the Beatles haven't held up as well for me as the Beach Boys have.

[guitarfool2002]

I just used the Pet Sounds title track as an example of Leslie'd guitar because that was the topic. Remember too that Brian used the guitar through a Leslie for the intro hook of the song "Girl Don't Tell Me", which beat Emerick and the Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" by a good margin of time.

Just wanted to add that because there are still those who credit "Tomorrow Never Knows" with coining the studio trick of tapping into a Leslie and running something other than an organ through the speaker. Gold Star for one was doing it previously, and we have Girl Don't Tell Me as the Beach Boys' specific example.

[guitarfool2002]

I always thought those were bongos through quite a lot of reverb/echo..... the idea that it's a palm muted guitar being strummed/hit rhythmically is kinda wild!

It's just a few quick and loud chord stabs I think Donny is thinking of, though (I assume...), not the constant percolating sound. For a similar effect, and probably the most famous and infamous of this kind of guitar sound, check out the beginning of Scotty Moore's second solo on Elvis' Hound Dog. It sounds like Scotty took a club or wooden board and whacked his guitar neck before playing the actual notes on that! He basically grabbed a few random frets, slid his fretting hand, and whacked the strings very hard.

That second Hound Dog solo is one of the most joyous moments of pure live energy and almost total musical abandon you'll ever hear on a rock record.   

thanks for the info ...

no, i am talking about the bongo-ish part (I was able to identify the guitar stabs previously) ...

i always assumed it was some kind of bongo, but when listening lately it sounds like it could be something else. it's so quacky/clicky to be a bongo ... but maybe the edge is being struck by a stick or something.

I think it is a bongo-type drum being played with a light stick or Hot Rods, at least to me ears.

Put into context, the variety and odd nature of the percussion on the Pet Sounds album in general is wild, no wonder some sounds can be hard to identify. Empty bottles, empty soda cans, etc. Plus whatever Hal had in his bag of tricks, and whatever the other percussionists brought in. 

I wonder if the empty Egg Nog cartons made their way onto the album as percussion instruments...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

The UM tape of the overdub make it pretty clear it's bongos.  When I played the song live, I used my very cheap set of bongos with hot rods and it sounds pretty dead on.

Pet Sounds, the track, in general, is pretty interesting, percussion wise.  It was so complicated that they cut the track with everybody playing percussion and overdubbed everything else later.  I wish the UM tape would have presented the entire un-overdubbed percussion track.

[Mikie]

For many years it was written in publications that Brian played drums on Surfin' (or at least 'percussion'). Was it really Brian playing the drum sound?

Was it ever confirmed whether he was really playing a garbage can lid with a drumstick or a pencil or was it something else? Just curious.

[DonnyL]

For many years it was written in publications that Brian played drums on Surfin' (or at least 'percussion'). Was it really Brian playing the drum sound?

Was it ever confirmed whether he was really playing a garbage can lid with a drumstick or a pencil or was it something else? Just curious.

sure sounds like a garbage can !

i just listened to 'surfin' for the first time in awhile, and never realized before how spliced up it is!

[Mikie]

Yeah, I was just listening to the Beach Boys' 1961-62 2-CD compilation called "FIRST WAVE: THE COMPLETE HITE MORGAN SESSIONS". There's definitely some splicing going on there on Surfin'......

[Andrew G. Doe]

I just used the Pet Sounds title track as an example of Leslie'd guitar because that was the topic. Remember too that Brian used the guitar through a Leslie for the intro hook of the song "Girl Don't Tell Me", which beat Emerick and the Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" by a good margin of time.

Brian used the Leslie effect a good time before "GDTM". 

[monicker]

To me that has never sounded like bongos on the breakdown of Pet Sounds and especially not with Hot Rods. It sounds like some sort of log/tongue drum playing all on the same pitched tongue with barely padded mallets.