Brian's Five Best Ever Compositions

[I. Spaceman]

the red album rankem song list

Ok Runners, I'll play:

The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Variations On A Shaker Hymn)
The Angel And The One
Dreamin'
Troublemaker
Pork And Beans
Everybody Get Dangerous
Heart Songs
Cold Dark World
Thought I Knew
Automatic


 

sh*t band. Maybe 2 or 3 good songs.

Fixed that for ya. *KOFF*

[phirnis]

I'll Bet He's Nice
Don't Worry Baby
Cherry Cherry Coupe
Surfin' USA
A Day in the Life of a Tree

 

[Paulos]

the red album rankem song list

Ok Runners, I'll play:

The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Variations On A Shaker Hymn)
The Angel And The One
Dreamin'
Troublemaker
Pork And Beans
Everybody Get Dangerous
Heart Songs
Cold Dark World
Thought I Knew
Automatic


 

sh*t band. Maybe 2 or 3 good songs.

Fixed that for ya. *KOFF*

Not a Weezer fan eh Ian? What's the matter, too white, too strong for you? Only on this board.

[wantsomecorn]

I'll Bet He's Nice
Don't Worry Baby
Cherry Cherry Coupe
Surfin' USA
A Day in the Life of a Tree

 

Can you... elaborate on Cherry Cherry Coupe?

[SMiLE-addict]

Due to the impossible nature of this question, I am submitting a list in protest.

1. I'm Bugged At My Old Man
2. I'm The Pied Piper
3. Better Get Back in Bed
4. TM Song
5. Johnny Carson

With honorable mention to Airplane, and probably a few others.

[I. Spaceman]

the red album rankem song list

Ok Runners, I'll play:

The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Variations On A Shaker Hymn)
The Angel And The One
Dreamin'
Troublemaker
Pork And Beans
Everybody Get Dangerous
Heart Songs
Cold Dark World
Thought I Knew
Automatic


 

sh*t band. Maybe 2 or 3 good songs.

Fixed that for ya. *KOFF*

Not a Weezer fan eh Ian? What's the matter, too white, too strong for you? Only on this board.

They're OK. But their hilariously rabid fanbase brings to mind a bizarro world where The Cars were hailed as the voice of their generation.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian's Five Best Ever Compositions....According To Brian Wilson?

1. Surfer Girl
2. Kiss Me Baby
3. California Girls
4. God Only Knows
5. Heroes And Villains

Honorable Mention: Good Vibrations

[DonnyL]

1. Here Today
2. I Just Wasn't Made for These Times
3. Caroline No
4. God Only Knows
5. Good to My Baby

[Jim V.]

the red album rankem song list

Ok Runners, I'll play:

The Greatest Man That Ever Lived (Variations On A Shaker Hymn)
The Angel And The One
Dreamin'
Troublemaker
Pork And Beans
Everybody Get Dangerous
Heart Songs
Cold Dark World
Thought I Knew
Automatic


 

sh*t band. Maybe 2 or 3 good songs.

Fixed that for ya. *KOFF*

Not a Weezer fan eh Ian? What's the matter, too white, too strong for you? Only on this board.

They're OK. But their hilariously rabid fanbase brings to mind a bizarro world where The Cars were hailed as the voice of their generation.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Maybe there's a few truly insane people that think Weezer is a continually great rock group. But at least in my opinion, they were a great group in the mid '90s that put out two great albums. Much of what they did after is of variable quality. But I don't even a hardcore fan would say Weezer are/were some world changing rock group.

[phirnis]

I'll Bet He's Nice
Don't Worry Baby
Cherry Cherry Coupe
Surfin' USA
A Day in the Life of a Tree

 

Can you... elaborate on Cherry Cherry Coupe?

Sure. I know it's widely considered a minor album cut on an "early one" yet whenever I hear it I can't stop listening. Incredibly catchy! Love the way the chorus vocals intertwine. So I thought it'd be appropriate to list that one as well when most people would probably pick something like GOK and Surf's Up instead (both of which I absolutely adore, mind you!).

[Two Ways Have I]

I'm not sure that everyone is utilising a consistent interpretation of the word "composition".  Some of the voting has, I suspect, highlighted best ever "productions" or even favorite "songs" - but that wasn't the question.

For me, "Girls On the Beach" is right up there as a stunning composition - vastly more interesting than "Good Vibrations".  For that matter, "Solar System" is a more interesting composition than GV!

On the other hand, it may that I am over-analysing. 

[hypehat]

Compositionally (ie mostly going off how mindbending they are musically, 'simpler' songs are better records than some of these tbh)

Good Vibrations

Simply insane, compositionally - how many times does it change key, all so effortlessly?  You have the great 'dumb' chorus which just explodes out of that tense descending verse (itself criminally simple yet incredibly effective) - where a normal songwriter might make a more dramatic change from the F#, like a IV or a V, Brian just brings it up one whole step each time which gives it this fantastic propulsive quality (helped by thundering cello). And the simplest thing in the world which no-one would ever do, letting it hang on the Bb in the bridge, as if the chorus has been reaching for the state of nirvana that the key of Bb represents in the song. And then, what's really natural to go to from a Bb? An F. Nevermind that that completely disregards the entire structure of the song previously. I'm waffling. But the end chorus just marching up and down the F#, G#, Bb thing of the chorus (IN REVERSE) is again, wonderfully simple yet totally avant-garde and not what anyone obeying the normal standards of pop composition would try.

Wonderful

A great demonstration of taking 'hard' changes - like the C# to B in the first change, or the G#m to Fdim, which would normally make a tenser sound - and using the bass notes relation to the chords to make it pretty and natural. And again, casually disregarding notions of a simple home key, especially when the verse flowers.

'Til I Die
A really weird composition - it just goes up with no dramatic bass changes, just hitting the inversions of the chords in this sublime and graceful manner. Also has one of my favourite BW tricks, which is finishing the sequence a half step away from the first chord  - G#maj7, but the sequence ends on Gmaj7 - and just switching up that half step in a natural manner by the way the melody is constructed (see also - the way the bridge to Caroline, No goes back into the verse).

Don't Talk

Another one where Brian just takes the cheapest shortcut to 'ballad' in rock - the descending chord sequence - and totally explodes it by constantly making things, be it the bass or the string inversions, heading up and around the melody. Also neat is the chords really fluid relationship with each other and the bass. And then, as if it wasn't a minor miracle unto itself, the string break goes into a completely new area seamlessly, changing the entire song for a few bars and going right back to the chorus as if nothing happened.

Friends

Again, with the deceptive key changes (Dmaj7 - Gmaj7 in the first bar, Ebmaj7 -G#maj7 in the second because WHY NOT) and then changing down from that to a Gm7-F, in which the F should sound so bogus but it doesn't, and then to A, which should sound even boguser, seeing as we're changing back to the cadence in the home key (which was only the home key for ONE BAR) but no, it sounds great and completely normal. Then you have that ascending thing (again, because why not?) which leads us eventually into  that minor miracle of bass/chord harmony of the bridge, where the bass tones totally carry the anthemic build up to 'LET'S BE FRIEEEEENDS' by filling in the additions to the D chord, before languishing on some lovely 6 and 7th chords of harmony.


Honourable mention

Heroes & Villains.

If there was a version which incorporated half of the nuttery Brian was planning for it, even if he wasn't all at the same time (All Day, Bag of Tricks, the Fire Intros, the 'Wish Upon A Star' thing, Barnyard and Great Shape, Do A Lot (y'know, an entirely different song) Mission Pak, Bridge To Indians....) it would have been the greatest advance in American music since Rhapsody In Blue. Instead, it's verse-chorus-verse-acapella-bridge-chorus, although still pretty mental. But it's not what it could have been.

[hypehat]

I'm not sure that everyone is utilising a consistent interpretation of the word "composition".  Some of the voting has, I suspect, highlighted best ever "productions" or even favorite "songs" - but that wasn't the question.

For me, "Girls On the Beach" is right up there as a stunning composition - vastly more interesting than "Good Vibrations".  For that matter, "Solar System" is a more interesting composition than GV!

On the other hand, it may that I am over-analysing. 

You ain't wrong, Girls On The Beach is a really interesting piece. I could have easily picked that or Solar System!

[Lowbacca]

Compositionally (ie mostly going off how mindbending they are musically, 'simpler' songs are better records than some of these tbh)

Good Vibrations

Simply insane, compositionally - how many times does it change key, all so effortlessly?  You have the great 'dumb' chorus which just explodes out of that tense descending verse (itself criminally simple yet incredibly effective) - where a normal songwriter might make a more dramatic change from the F#, like a IV or a V, Brian just brings it up one whole step each time which gives it this fantastic propulsive quality (helped by thundering cello). And the simplest thing in the world which no-one would ever do, letting it hang on the Bb in the bridge, as if the chorus has been reaching for the state of nirvana that the key of Bb represents in the song. And then, what's really natural to go to from a Bb? An F. Nevermind that that completely disregards the entire structure of the song previously. I'm waffling. But the end chorus just marching up and down the F#, G#, Bb thing of the chorus (IN REVERSE) is again, wonderfully simple yet totally avant-garde and not what anyone obeying the normal standards of pop composition would try.

Wonderful

A great demonstration of taking 'hard' changes - like the C# to B in the first change, or the G#m to Fdim, which would normally make a tenser sound - and using the bass notes relation to the chords to make it pretty and natural. And again, casually disregarding notions of a simple home key, especially when the verse flowers.

'Til I Die
A really weird composition - it just goes up with no dramatic bass changes, just hitting the inversions of the chords in this sublime and graceful manner. Also has one of my favourite BW tricks, which is finishing the sequence a half step away from the first chord  - G#maj7, but the sequence ends on Gmaj7 - and just switching up that half step in a natural manner by the way the melody is constructed (see also - the way the bridge to Caroline, No goes back into the verse).

Don't Talk

Another one where Brian just takes the cheapest shortcut to 'ballad' in rock - the descending chord sequence - and totally explodes it by constantly making things, be it the bass or the string inversions, heading up and around the melody. Also neat is the chords really fluid relationship with each other and the bass. And then, as if it wasn't a minor miracle unto itself, the string break goes into a completely new area seamlessly, changing the entire song for a few bars and going right back to the chorus as if nothing happened.

Friends

Again, with the deceptive key changes (Dmaj7 - Gmaj7 in the first bar, Ebmaj7 -G#maj7 in the second because WHY NOT) and then changing down from that to a Gm7-F, in which the F should sound so bogus but it doesn't, and then to A, which should sound even boguser, seeing as we're changing back to the cadence in the home key (which was only the home key for ONE BAR) but no, it sounds great and completely normal. Then you have that ascending thing (again, because why not?) which leads us eventually into  that minor miracle of bass/chord harmony of the bridge, where the bass tones totally carry the anthemic build up to 'LET'S BE FRIEEEEENDS' by filling in the additions to the D chord, before languishing on some lovely 6 and 7th chords of harmony.


Honourable mention

Heroes & Villains.

If there was a version which incorporated half of the nuttery Brian was planning for it, even if he wasn't all at the same time (All Day, Bag of Tricks, the Fire Intros, the 'Wish Upon A Star' thing, Barnyard and Great Shape, Do A Lot (y'know, an entirely different song) Mission Pak, Bridge To Indians....) it would have been the greatest advance in American music since Rhapsody In Blue. Instead, it's verse-chorus-verse-acapella-bridge-chorus, although still pretty mental. But it's not what it could have been.

Awesome post.

[guitarfool2002]

Due to the impossible nature of this question, I am submitting a list in protest.

1. I'm Bugged At My Old Man
2. I'm The Pied Piper
3. Better Get Back in Bed
4. TM Song
5. Johnny Carson

I have to be honest, I laughed out loud when I saw "I'm The Pied Piper" because I thought you were making a sarcastic comment based on the 1966 hit record by Crispian St. Peters shown in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncSuleunml8

...totally forgetting about the Wilson brothers track for that moment. 

[Crow]

Compositionally (ie mostly going off how mindbending they are musically, 'simpler' songs are better records than some of these tbh)

Good Vibrations

Simply insane, compositionally - how many times does it change key, all so effortlessly?  You have the great 'dumb' chorus which just explodes out of that tense descending verse (itself criminally simple yet incredibly effective) - where a normal songwriter might make a more dramatic change from the F#, like a IV or a V, Brian just brings it up one whole step each time which gives it this fantastic propulsive quality (helped by thundering cello). And the simplest thing in the world which no-one would ever do, letting it hang on the Bb in the bridge, as if the chorus has been reaching for the state of nirvana that the key of Bb represents in the song. And then, what's really natural to go to from a Bb? An F. Nevermind that that completely disregards the entire structure of the song previously. I'm waffling. But the end chorus just marching up and down the F#, G#, Bb thing of the chorus (IN REVERSE) is again, wonderfully simple yet totally avant-garde and not what anyone obeying the normal standards of pop composition would try.

Wonderful

A great demonstration of taking 'hard' changes - like the C# to B in the first change, or the G#m to Fdim, which would normally make a tenser sound - and using the bass notes relation to the chords to make it pretty and natural. And again, casually disregarding notions of a simple home key, especially when the verse flowers.

'Til I Die
A really weird composition - it just goes up with no dramatic bass changes, just hitting the inversions of the chords in this sublime and graceful manner. Also has one of my favourite BW tricks, which is finishing the sequence a half step away from the first chord  - G#maj7, but the sequence ends on Gmaj7 - and just switching up that half step in a natural manner by the way the melody is constructed (see also - the way the bridge to Caroline, No goes back into the verse).

Don't Talk

Another one where Brian just takes the cheapest shortcut to 'ballad' in rock - the descending chord sequence - and totally explodes it by constantly making things, be it the bass or the string inversions, heading up and around the melody. Also neat is the chords really fluid relationship with each other and the bass. And then, as if it wasn't a minor miracle unto itself, the string break goes into a completely new area seamlessly, changing the entire song for a few bars and going right back to the chorus as if nothing happened.

Friends

Again, with the deceptive key changes (Dmaj7 - Gmaj7 in the first bar, Ebmaj7 -G#maj7 in the second because WHY NOT) and then changing down from that to a Gm7-F, in which the F should sound so bogus but it doesn't, and then to A, which should sound even boguser, seeing as we're changing back to the cadence in the home key (which was only the home key for ONE BAR) but no, it sounds great and completely normal. Then you have that ascending thing (again, because why not?) which leads us eventually into  that minor miracle of bass/chord harmony of the bridge, where the bass tones totally carry the anthemic build up to 'LET'S BE FRIEEEEENDS' by filling in the additions to the D chord, before languishing on some lovely 6 and 7th chords of harmony.


Honourable mention

Heroes & Villains.

If there was a version which incorporated half of the nuttery Brian was planning for it, even if he wasn't all at the same time (All Day, Bag of Tricks, the Fire Intros, the 'Wish Upon A Star' thing, Barnyard and Great Shape, Do A Lot (y'know, an entirely different song) Mission Pak, Bridge To Indians....) it would have been the greatest advance in American music since Rhapsody In Blue. Instead, it's verse-chorus-verse-acapella-bridge-chorus, although still pretty mental. But it's not what it could have been.

Wow great post. Do you really think H&V would have been the greatest advancement since Rhapsody in Blue? And if so how?

[hypehat]

Well, this is all obviously speculation, and if you'd asked at the time I might have had a better, or slightly more wild, response. But I'll try and collect my thoughts here.

The two have obvious parallels, for a start (Brian playing the piano riff from Rhapsody, then busting into the chorus to H&V with a grin in the doc should tell you as much) but in 1966 and 1967 the critical consensus was being turned towards this new, exciting music being made away from a 'normal' consensus again. What makes Brian & Gershwin interesting is that they were masters of the 'safe' formula (although that doesn't disregard I Get Around or The Man I Love, for instance, as indicators of supreme talent) which their later works sought to revolutionise. In Gershwin's case, this was jazz, despite the fact the Rhapsody bears little relation to popular notions of jazz, and in Brian's, rock music, despite the fact H&V bears little relation to popular notions of rock.

But if the two were the same just on notions of coincidence, H&V would still just be a pop song. What makes Heroes And Villains special in it's field, and what the sessions disc on TSS bears out, is that Heroes & Villains would have represented an absolutely gobsmacking advance in what American popular music was, which was rock.

Note, it has to be popular. If you asked Gershwin, he would have told you he wasn't sh*t next to a Ravel or a Debussy, and Rhapsody pales technically next to their work (or so they say), but the Rhapsody was a POP hit. As an 8 minute disc or a 14 minute concert piece. Or Glenn Miller chopping it down to the pretty bit, which is the kind of record BW's gran bought and we have to blame for this whole mess.

I digress. What I'm saying is, whilst I obviously do care that The Mojo Men put musique concrete sound effects on a three minute pop song in 1967 because it's cool, the record sold 4 copies and so it doesn't really matter. I love The Nuggets Comp and what it represents, but it represents a sea change because the records were regional hits or outliers on the Billboard charts. Just like The Velvet Underground nugget that everyone who bought that album formed a band and became heroes for art rock, but that doesn't make it a vanguard for POP music. The Beach Boys were America's biggest pop group.

So for Brian Wilson to essentially write a piece which constitutes improvisation on toys and sirens, intricate barbershop harmonies, killer melodies arranged in various reprisals and 'themes', spoken word comedic sections (if the All Day tape is to be believed), tape explosions, and much more musical content, and an lyrical exposition of American themes.
What is difficult, of course, is knowing what the hell he would have done with half of this material.

The only problem is, Brian wasn't writing a 15 minute concert piece. Whereas Gershwin was given the opportunity to expand into the concert hall, and blossomed doing so, Brian was still pushing against the boundaries of radio play. The struggle to make it three minutes long arguably killed the Smile project for him. The other thing that being a pop musician afforded Brian was the dynamics of the studio, which I think is where the advance is made. Brian isn't presenting a concert piece for Paul Whiteman's Orchestra, orchestrated by Ferde Grofe, one night only at Carnegie Hall, which was that environment into which 'serious music' had to be presented into and what Gershwin needed for legitimacy (and which he didn't receive in his lifetime). Brian was bringing that level of compositional clarity into the unique arrangements and techniques that only the recording studio could have brought him, which is, for me, the biggest advance. Gershwin didn't have fuzz bass and tack pianos!


My computer is running out of battery as I appear to have rattled on so long!

[SMiLE Brian]

The failure to put H&V with all those wonderful effects together seems to be part of why Brian had so much trouble making music afterwards, he knew was on the cusp of changing popular music and couldn't finish out. The SMiLE sessions is truly a mentally exhausting album to listen to, so much is going on as Brian pushed the music to the limit.

[Crow]

Great answer thank you. I agree that Brian had too worry about radio play so much. I think a 12 or 14 minute Heroes would be mind blowing. He could have kepy Vegatables and Barnyard, etc in the song. It would have been great and took up most of side one along with Our Prayer, Cabinessense, You were my sunshine, Worms.... leaving GV, Wonderful, Surf's up and a few others for side 2

[Dunderhead]

You Still Believe In Me is maybe his best.

[the captain]

I disagree with the people who think Brian would have been better served to think less about radio play or the pop format: I think he was at his best with that creative friction of working within but rubbing against a set of generally understood confines. What makes half a dozen key changes within a 2 minute pop song like This Whole World interesting is that they are within a pop song. Ditto for the production and arrangement approach of something like Good Vibrations, or the chord progression of The Warmth of the Sun, or the largely synth-based arrangements of the Love You album. The greatness is fighting with an established form and coming out of that fight with something that is familiar enough to let the listener pay attention, and eventually to uncover and appreciate the cleverness.

Had he no framework, I don't think he'd have made much of an impact with anyone. I don't think he'd have wanted to do music, frankly, if not for wanting to make rock 'n' roll and vocal pop. It's a pretty small span of time (or a couple sporadic spans of time) that he seems to have consciously been trying to be "far out" with his ideas. Mostly it was well within the boundaries of what he was known for.

No shame in that, and I'd say his best compositions are the ones that struck the balance of appealing to huge numbers of people (i.e. sold) and incorporated little surprises or layers of depth. So to me that would mean things like I Get Around, Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice.

[clack]

Not in any particular order:

Farmer's Daughter
This Whole World
Til I Die
You Still Believe In Me
All I Wanna Do

[I. Spaceman]

I disagree with the people who think Brian would have been better served to think less about radio play or the pop format: I think he was at his best with that creative friction of working within but rubbing against a set of generally understood confines. What makes half a dozen key changes within a 2 minute pop song like This Whole World interesting is that they are within a pop song. Ditto for the production and arrangement approach of something like Good Vibrations, or the chord progression of The Warmth of the Sun, or the largely synth-based arrangements of the Love You album. The greatness is fighting with an established form and coming out of that fight with something that is familiar enough to let the listener pay attention, and eventually to uncover and appreciate the cleverness.

Had he no framework, I don't think he'd have made much of an impact with anyone. I don't think he'd have wanted to do music, frankly, if not for wanting to make rock 'n' roll and vocal pop. It's a pretty small span of time (or a couple sporadic spans of time) that he seems to have consciously been trying to be "far out" with his ideas. Mostly it was well within the boundaries of what he was known for.

No shame in that, and I'd say his best compositions are the ones that struck the balance of appealing to huge numbers of people (i.e. sold) and incorporated little surprises or layers of depth. So to me that would mean things like I Get Around, Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice.

Amen.

[jimmy1949]

I thought there was going to be an end to the whole list thing....

[the captain]

You were incorrect. But at least we're talking substantively rather than just listing things. Though if you want my top five reasons that lists are occasionally acceptable, I would be glad to provide it.