Any of you guys Pearl Jam fans?

[Ron]

Is that the performance where Kurt mock-played guitar by waving his hand in front of it the whole performance? 

I hear what you're saying on the Lennon thing.  I've read the 'early' accounts of some of the things he did, but wrote it off as something people do when they're 18.  "Working Class Hero" is one of several Lennon songs I'm not a big fan of because of the negativity involved, John was a man with self confidence issues he suffered from his entire life.  As for the playboy interview, I have no problem with anything he said.  I'll defer to Paul's opinion I suppose, he would know much better than I do. 

[Ron]

A comment about Nirvana.  


- It's my opinion that Nirvana the band, and Kurt Cobain the songwriter/singer, have gone completely misinterpreted by not only most casual fans, but also by history (lol), and by the bands that followed and were influenced by Nirvana.

You can trace a ton of the modern 'rock' bands back to Nirvana.  I think Cobain's influence was seismic.  

He had a pathetic, hurt, pitiful style.  I don't believe, however, that he intended it that way.  I don't think he always took himself so seriously.  I have a bit of evidence to back that up.  First, the way he wrote his music: He would literally write poems, then just scramble the sh*t up and record it that way!  I think he knew that what he was singing about wasn't important and didn't make much sense, he was just making his type of music.  He didn't see himself as deep, I don't think he was as pretentious as he's made out to be.


Second, a famous story about him and Axl Rose.  Kurt and Courtney are backstage at an awards show... Courtney mouths off to Axl Rose, Axl says "Kurt, you better tell your bitch to shut up!".  So Kurt turns to Courtney, and says "Shut up Bitch!".... and they walk off leaving Axl to think about it.  

This was a guy who wasn't caught up in what people thought of him, didn't particularly think anything he said was very important or deep, and had a serious drug problem.  That was Kurt Cobain.  


I also think he was extremely talented, one of the most talented songwriters of the past 30 years.  He couldn't help but influence the young ears around him, and after his death of course became a martyr which just magnified it all.  

What you're left with, though, is A. people giving him a bad rap because of the perceived pretentiousness of Grunge music which he helped create, B. a nation full of bands making pussified, wimpy music because they think that's what Kurt was doing.  

If you listen to all these modern rock bands whine like little babies, that's their best Kurt Cobain impression.  I can't tell if they're doing it subconsciously or what.  They should lock all these lead singers in a room with "Bleach" and don't let them out until they drop all the pretention and apologize for what they've done to misrepresent Kurt's legacy.  

sh*t., bro, to me Cobain was at his best pre-Nevermind, which nevertheless was a great album. Anybody who tries to say otherwise is just one of those hipster bullsh*t jobs who loves something until it become popular. I don't care what kind of revisionist bullsh*t is out there, that was a damn good album.  Really, though, what finally broke Nirvana through IMHO was Dave Grohl on drums, because that was the one weak spot of Nirvana before he joined. When you're a trio, and you have a dodgy drummer, you aren't going to cut it. With that in mind, though, the stuff off of Incesticide was my favorite.



Ron, who hated Lady Picture Show? Were they deaf and just hated a sign language version or something?!

Idiots!  They were Idiots!  lol  I think part of it was some people were put off by the slightly... ergh... "homo" vibe of the song/video/the way he acted around that time.  I love that Glam rock sh*t, I didn't care. 

We're beating a dead horse, we're painfully close to saying something's cool, just for the sake of being cool about the people who say cool is not cool... urgh... you get what I mean.  What it breaks down to is, when I heard Nevermind (first cd I bought... bought because a girl I liked liked it, I was 15) when I heard Nevermind, it Blew.My.Mind.  I had never heard anything like it before.  Not saying there wasn't anything like it before, just saying it was the first I heard of it.  It was my introduction into Rock music that actually stood up to the oldies I had grown up listening to in my father's car.  Everything I liked about the Beach Boys, the Beatles, Motown, Sam Cooke, etc... everything I enjoyed about music, I could hear on that album too.   I guess I wasn't listening very hard before then. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

It's funny that you say that, because when it first was released, I hated it. At the time, I wasn't listening to any current rock, and thought it was all noise and screaming. I was more into pop and 60 & 70s rock at the time. What a tosser I was...I mean, I was bashing music that was bringing back the vibe of the music I loved, and I was too up my own ass to realize it. When I actually sat down and listened to it about 7 years later, I wished I could go back in time and kick my own ass.

[I. Spaceman]

I think the people who say Bleach was a great album are the revisionist "hipsters". I was a musician in the same time frame as that, was a Sub Pop fan, knew tons of other fans of the label and the indie music scene, and I never met anyone who thought it was anything more than a good-to-fair record by a band with potential. It was actually the worst-selling album released by Sub Pop up to that time.

[guitarfool2002]

Is that the performance where Kurt mock-played guitar by waving his hand in front of it the whole performance? 

I hear what you're saying on the Lennon thing.  I've read the 'early' accounts of some of the things he did, but wrote it off as something people do when they're 18.  "Working Class Hero" is one of several Lennon songs I'm not a big fan of because of the negativity involved, John was a man with self confidence issues he suffered from his entire life.  As for the playboy interview, I have no problem with anything he said.  I'll defer to Paul's opinion I suppose, he would know much better than I do. 

This is the full Headbangers Ball Nirvana appearance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vKwLM93yKg

[Ron]

I think the people who say Bleach was a great album are the revisionist "hipsters". I was a musician in the same time frame as that, was a Sub Pop fan, knew tons of other fans of the label and the indie music scene, and I never met anyone who thought it was anything more than a good-to-fair record by a band with potential. It was actually the worst-selling album released by Sub Pop up to that time.

Well hipster or not, I bought Nevermind when I was 15, then we all bought Bleach because it was 'the other' Nirvana album.  We liked both.  It had nothing to do with being cool, it had more to do with trying to get laid. 

[Ron]

It's funny that you say that, because when it first was released, I hated it. At the time, I wasn't listening to any current rock, and thought it was all noise and screaming. I was more into pop and 60 & 70s rock at the time. What a tosser I was...I mean, I was bashing music that was bringing back the vibe of the music I loved, and I was too up my own ass to realize it. When I actually sat down and listened to it about 7 years later, I wished I could go back in time and kick my own ass.

Yeah... I did that with 'Pet Sounds' when I first heard it.  So don't feel bad! 

[Jay]

I hate Nirvana with a passion. Ditto for Kurt Cobain. *ducking from the rocks being thrown*

[Jay]

They aren't bad. They had three or four good songs. I have fond memories of seeing them on Unplugged. Hard to believe that was damn near twenty years ago.

Highly disagree. Weiland's voice was better back then, but STP's best stuff came after the hooplah died down. They never recorded a bnad song, well, up until their reunion album (which f***ing sucked). It's funny, but so many people only know of STP for Core , and that was their worst album (again, until the reunion).

Kind of like Pearl Jam, and Ten , come to think of it....

SOrry, but what is their "reunion album"? I don't really know much at all about STP apart from Plush, Creep and Interstate Love Song. Sour Girl was interesting, but the video terrified me. lol I was just watching them on Letterman doing Between The Lines, and I thought it was a pretty damn good song. 

[Newguy562]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

[Ron]

Wait, the drummer from Nirvana had a group?   

[SMiLE Brian]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

No

[pixletwin]

I liked Pearl Jam but I find Vedder's solo albums (Into the Wild and Ukulele Songs) are far better.

[Aegir]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

I find that the better someone's voice is, the less I like their singing. The better someone can play guitar, the less I like their guitar playing. Most good voices are boring and most good guitarists are boring.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

So

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

I find that the better someone's voice is, the less I like their singing. The better someone can play guitar, the less I like their guitar playing. Most good voices are boring and most good guitarists are boring.

wtf?!

[pixletwin]

I think the people who say Bleach was a great album are the revisionist "hipsters". I was a musician in the same time frame as that, was a Sub Pop fan, knew tons of other fans of the label and the indie music scene, and I never met anyone who thought it was anything more than a good-to-fair record by a band with potential. It was actually the worst-selling album released by Sub Pop up to that time.

Exactly right. Once they released Sliver as a single though, that was a bit different and my ears definitely perked up when I first heard that.

[the captain]

So

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

I find that the better someone's voice is, the less I like their singing. The better someone can play guitar, the less I like their guitar playing. Most good voices are boring and most good guitarists are boring.

wtf?!

I'm going to guess as to what Aegir meant, as it sounds like a variation on a relatively common theme: that he equates technical proficiency with soullessness in music, and that when an artist relies on that proficiency, the artist him- or herself isn't as interesting because it is more about technique than creation.

If that's what he meant, I'll just say I can relate to that in part: a musician who is purely technical can be dull, while a musician who is far less technically proficient but communicates something interesting (deep, exciting, terrifying, sexy, et al) is breathtaking. I don't find that it is all or nothing, though. There are many, many aspects to any art form, and different combinations of those aspects can result in successful art. That's my two cents (on what was just my interpretation, anyway).

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

They aren't bad. They had three or four good songs. I have fond memories of seeing them on Unplugged. Hard to believe that was damn near twenty years ago.

Highly disagree. Weiland's voice was better back then, but STP's best stuff came after the hooplah died down. They never recorded a bnad song, well, up until their reunion album (which f***ing sucked). It's funny, but so many people only know of STP for Core , and that was their worst album (again, until the reunion).

Kind of like Pearl Jam, and Ten , come to think of it....

SOrry, but what is their "reunion album"? I don't really know much at all about STP apart from Plush, Creep and Interstate Love Song. Sour Girl was interesting, but the video terrified me. lol I was just watching them on Letterman doing Between The Lines, and I thought it was a pretty damn good song.  

Their 2010 self titled album. Besides between the lines, it pretty much sucked, apart from a track or two.

Ian, im probably the last person in the world that can be called a hipster. I mean I'm a fan of Rod Stewart for f*** sake. that said I thought bleach was a very good album with s***** drumming.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

So

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

I find that the better someone's voice is, the less I like their singing. The better someone can play guitar, the less I like their guitar playing. Most good voices are boring and most good guitarists are boring.

wtf?!

I'm going to guess as to what Aegir meant, as it sounds like a variation on a relatively common theme: that he equates technical proficiency with soullessness in music, and that when an artist relies on that proficiency, the artist him- or herself isn't as interesting because it is more about technique than creation.

If that's what he meant, I'll just say I can relate to that in part: a musician who is purely technical can be dull, while a musician who is far less technically proficient but communicates something interesting (deep, exciting, terrifying, sexy, et al) is breathtaking. I don't find that it is all or nothing, though. There are many, many aspects to any art form, and different combinations of those aspects can result in successful art. That's my two cents (on what was just my interpretation, anyway).

I hope that's what he meant too lol. I can understand that a bit, as that's why I like Brian's voice in the early seventies much much better than the early sixties.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

you know what? I actually feel the same way! I mean, I really do like Nirvana, but prefer the Foo Fighters.

[I. Spaceman]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

Dave Grohl is a boring version of Tom Petty. Which is really something.

[I. Spaceman]

I think the people who say Bleach was a great album are the revisionist "hipsters". I was a musician in the same time frame as that, was a Sub Pop fan, knew tons of other fans of the label and the indie music scene, and I never met anyone who thought it was anything more than a good-to-fair record by a band with potential. It was actually the worst-selling album released by Sub Pop up to that time.

Exactly right. Once they released Sliver as a single though, that was a bit different and my ears definitely perked up when I first heard that.

Same here. My favorite song of theirs. Kurt's favorite, as well.

[Newguy562]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

you know what? I actually feel the same way! I mean, I really do like Nirvana, but prefer the Foo Fighters.

Dave expanded the sound way past grunge Kurt never did that but he did perfect his little sound.
When you hear songs like these and compare them to anything Nirvana has done it's not fair because it completely blows them away...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGL-ojxKkTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1gyc9sGRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXg5bNXmY0k

[Newguy562]

The funny thing is the drummer from Nirvana put together a greater group and well can sing and play the guitar much better than Kurt. (Kurt was incredible but he wasn't the full package like Dave.)

Dave Grohl is a boring version of Tom Petty. Which is really something.

You can tell you never listened to their music and from past comments I seen of yours I can tell your taste is trash. (apart from being a Beach Boy's fan)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like calling someone else's tastes 'trash', as everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Great music is subjective.