If Landy had never been born, how would things turn out differently?

[harrisonjon]

Which scenario is most likely?:

1) A shrink is found for Brian who actually gets him working reasonably well (whilst accepting that miracle cures were never gonna happen with his condition)

2) Another Landy fills the void and the history is no different

3) There are no medical options and Brian dies at some point between the mid-70s to mid-80s, in a similar trajectory to Dennis.

[I. Spaceman]

Number three.

[SamMcK]

Brian would probably have died.

[Letsgoawayforawhile]

Definitely number three. Landy is a monster, but also the only reason Brian is still alive.

[wantsomecorn]

I'd think that there would have been another shrink, but one who wouldn't have been nearly as controlling as Landy, so Brain would have kept up his drug abuse and died from it. So a combination of 1 and 3, I guess.

in a similar trajectory to Dennis.

This makes me think:

If Brian would have died, would Dennis' death have been any different? Would he have been depressed by what happened to him, so much so that it happened sooner, or would he have been scared straight and tried to quit his substance abuse?

[Andrew G. Doe]

1 - we wouldn't have got Love You

2 - Brian would have died, by summer 1983 if not before.

[bgas]

4)  There's no way to tell. Since Landy schooled in California and spent most of his career treating people in California, the space-time continuum would have been radically changed  for everyone in the state( if not the world) and it's very possible that Brian might never have even started taking drugs or fallen to the family madness. 

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

4)  There's no way to tell. Since Landy schooled in California and spent most of his career treating people in California, the space-time continuum would have been radically changed  for everyone in the state( if not the world) and it's very possible that Brian might never have even started taking drugs or fallen to the family madness. 

Great Scott!

[Slow In Brain]

What songs from the first Landy era did he have a hand in?

[Amy B.]

Brian would probably have died.

Was he really the only therapist of his kind? I know Brian accepted him because he was unorthodox. Couldn't Marilyn have found another unorthodox therapist had Landy not existed? Maybe one that wouldn't have done the damage Landy did. (This is not to say Landy didn't say Brian's life, but maybe someone else could have too.)

[Tilt Araiza]

[MBE]

1 I would think.

[Micha]

1 - we wouldn't have got Love You

2 - Brian would have died, by summer 1983 if not before.

What's worse than your number 1 if your number 2 had come into effect, we wouldn't have got SMiLE, TLOS and TWGMTR. So a Landy was better than nothing.

[Mike's Beard]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

[Russ_B66]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

I agree 100%. There are those who could have taken on Brian and not exploited him in the process.

[KittyKat]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

I agree 100%. There are those who could have taken on Brian and not exploited him in the process.

It would have been another quack doctor. What Landy did was unethical and illegal and it only worked because of that. No one can hold a person prisoner against their will and that's what it took. Any legit doctor would have just seen him on a therapy appointment basis, not moved into his house 24/7 with body guards who wouldn't let him out of the house without supervision. The taking-Brian-prisoner-and-keeping-him-away-from-drug-buddies was the part that was effective in keeping Brian from harming himself. But it was completely against the law and only a criminal type would be able to do that whether it was Landy or another so-called doctor.

[Mike's Beard]

Brian should have been committed. Not a 30 day voluntary observation stay, a proper Court sanctioned stay at a rehab facility.

[SloopJohnnyB]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

I agree 100%. There are those who could have taken on Brian and not exploited him in the process.

Brian should have been committed. Not a 30 day voluntary observation stay, a proper Court sanctioned stay at a rehab facility.

I've always felt that Landy saved Brian's life. I only wish that Landy or anyone for that matter had gotten involved with Dennis. Was there ever an attempt to get Dennis committed to a rehad facility? Dennis probably would have beat the sh#* out of Landy's people if they tried to intervene. I wish they had tried, though. So sad that Dennis left so young.

[hypehat]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

I agree 100%. There are those who could have taken on Brian and not exploited him in the process.

It would have been another quack doctor. What Landy did was unethical and illegal and it only worked because of that. No one can hold a person prisoner against their will and that's what it took. Any legit doctor would have just seen him on a therapy appointment basis, not moved into his house 24/7 with body guards who wouldn't let him out of the house without supervision. The taking-Brian-prisoner-and-keeping-him-away-from-drug-buddies was the part that was effective in keeping Brian from harming himself. But it was completely against the law and only a criminal type would be able to do that whether it was Landy or another so-called doctor.

You forget that Brian was making decent progress in a 'normal' psychiatric manner with another doctor during the 80's, but said doctor was killed in a hiking accident and so they got Landy back again.


What I mean to say is, like Mike's Beard said, Brian could have absolutely been treated in a normal fashion. Send him to rehab. A live-in carer is not 'illegal' or 'out there' and you ignore that Landy imprisoned him from his own family, not just his 'drug buddies' like, ooh, Van Dyke Parks, his girlfriend (Melinda) or the band.

So much about Landy's 'treatment' nearly killed Brian, which you seem to be ignoring.

[hypehat]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

I agree 100%. There are those who could have taken on Brian and not exploited him in the process.

Brian should have been committed. Not a 30 day voluntary observation stay, a proper Court sanctioned stay at a rehab facility.

I've always felt that Landy saved Brian's life. I only wish that Landy or anyone for that matter had gotten involved with Dennis. Was there ever an attempt to get Dennis committed to a rehad facility? Dennis probably would have beat the sh#* out of Landy's people if they tried to intervene. I wish they had tried, though. So sad that Dennis left so young.

If I recall, it was discussed by the band/management, but either a) Landy wanted similarly extortionate fees or b) it was dismissed as impossible to get Dennis help.

[hypehat]

What songs from the first Landy era did he have a hand in?

Whilst there's no evidence he wrote any lyrics to Love You, 15BO, or Adult/Child tunes, Landy did force Brian to sit and write songs every day as part of his therapy during the first 'era'. Apparently, as well as Love You, there are lots of songs with titles like 'Carnie, Stop Flicking The goshdarn Lights On and Off' or some such. It's the probable reason why a lot of the Adult/Child material has weird lyrics - that pressure to just write ANYTHING constantly would probably get anyone writing songs about putting out cigarettes, the new baseball season, your missus, the fact that dinner's ready, or going to the cinema.  

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I refuse to believe that there was no one else in the world capable of treating Brian's condition other than Landy.

I agree 100%. There are those who could have taken on Brian and not exploited him in the process.

It would have been another quack doctor. What Landy did was unethical and illegal and it only worked because of that. No one can hold a person prisoner against their will and that's what it took. Any legit doctor would have just seen him on a therapy appointment basis, not moved into his house 24/7 with body guards who wouldn't let him out of the house without supervision. The taking-Brian-prisoner-and-keeping-him-away-from-drug-buddies was the part that was effective in keeping Brian from harming himself. But it was completely against the law and only a criminal type would be able to do that whether it was Landy or another so-called doctor.

You forget that Brian was making decent progress in a 'normal' psychiatric manner with another doctor during the 80's, but said doctor was killed in a hiking accident and so they got Landy back again.


What I mean to say is, like Mike's Beard said, Brian could have absolutely been treated in a normal fashion. Send him to rehab. A live-in carer is not 'illegal' or 'out there' and you ignore that Landy imprisoned him from his own family, not just his 'drug buddies' like, ooh, Van Dyke Parks, his girlfriend (Melinda) or the band.

So much about Landy's 'treatment' nearly killed Brian, which you seem to be ignoring.

Steve Schwartz in 1977 iirc

[Sheriff John Stone]

A person's marriage, mental illness, and drug addiction is a personal matter, so I don't want to appear judgmental, but...

It is so ironic that, after several years (1967-1975) of Marilyn not appearing to being overly proactive, when she does decide to do something a little more drastic or proactive (bringing in Landy), it turns out the way it did. I mean, of all the people she could've chosen, damn, it had to be Landy. I'm not blaming her, don't misunderstand.....But, for a minute, think if another doctor would've been brought in, and at least save Brian from dying of a heart attack or overdose until if/when he recovered (and that's not a given), how differently things would've turned out. When Landy was brought in for a second time, it was thirty years ago and Brian was only 40 years old. Do you ever wonder how differently those thirty years would've been for Brian, personally and professionally. Don't try, it's impossible...

[joshferrell]

What songs from the first Landy era did he have a hand in?

Whilst there's no evidence he wrote any lyrics to Love You, 15BO, or Adult/Child tunes, Landy did force Brian to sit and write songs every day as part of his therapy during the first 'era'. Apparently, as well as Love You, there are lots of songs with titles like 'Carnie, Stop Flicking The goshdarn Lights On and Off' or some such. It's the probable reason why a lot of the Adult/Child material has weird lyrics - that pressure to just write ANYTHING constantly would probably get anyone writing songs about putting out cigarettes, the new baseball season, your missus, the fact that dinner's ready, or going to the cinema.  

I hope THIS one is on MIC  

[Mike's Beard]

Along with those long rumoured boots of "I'm hungry, have we got any cake in the house?", "Who left the bastard tap running upstairs?"  and "Here Carnie, have a snort on daddy's heroin stash".