A huge backlash against the new concert dvd?

[joshferrell]

wow just read these amazon reviews on the new upcoming concert dvd..it seems that the fact that there are only 21 songs on it has pissed off some fans..
http://www.amazon.com/Live-Concert-50th-Anniversary-Blu-ray/product-reviews/B009KKLQVS/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

[Lowbacca]

Already being discussed HERE. But yeah, there's some disappointment (understandably). Hopefully there'll be a more comprehensive release for actual BBs fanatics in the near future.

[stack-o-tracks]

I dont' really care for live DVDs but putting out a concert on one with less than half of the songs they performed in concert this tour is BOGUS. f*** that noise. i guess since record labels are all going out of business, capitol needs to rake in as much cash as they can before this beach boys ship sails./

[Shady]

This release is the definition of a cash grab..

I'm avoiding it like the plague. I'm waiting for the real deal.

[AndrewHickey]

I dont' really care for live DVDs but putting out a concert on one with less than half of the songs they performed in concert this tour is BOGUS. f*** that noise. i guess since record labels are all going out of business, capitol needs to rake in as much cash as they can before this beach boys ship sails./

Except that the DVD isn't released by Capitol, but by SMC Recordings.

The fact is, we were *never* going to get a full live DVD, and anyone who knows much about the industry has been saying so for months. The company releasing the DVD will have to license the rights to each song from the publisher. We don't know how much the publisher charges for each song, but according to http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/music/feature_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001525959 , "Fees for song usage range from $1,500-$15,000, with superstar tracks reaching up to $20,000-$25,000."

Assume a figure solidly in the middle of the range -- say $10,000 to keep it simple -- and that means that the extra twenty-five songs for the DVD would have cost the production company an extra quarter of a million dollars.

Now, let's assume that the sales will be about those of the Knebworth DVD -- of the many Beach Boys DVDs, that one's the most successful. According to AGD's site, that DVD had sold 50,000 copies by 2008, six years after it came out.

The DVD costs $12. Now assume that it never drops in price (a very unlikely assumption, but anyway), that gives the total earnings of the DVD over the next six years as $0.6 million -- but that's sale price. The typical online shop will take about 15% of retail price, leaving the production company with $0.51 million. About 40% of that will be costs, so the company will be left, after six years, with a *maximum* income from the DVD, realistically, of about three hundred thousand dollars, or fifty thousand dollars a year average over that time.

So when you say "release an entire show", what you're *actually* saying to the production company is "throw away the first five years' profits on the DVD".

Not going to happen, unless a rather spectacular deal got cut with the publishing company.

As it is, the tracklisting we've got is a good one. It's got All This Is That, Sail On Sailor, Heroes & Villains, Marcella and two songs from the new album -- a year ago, if someone had said the Beach Boys would release a live DVD featuring those songs, everyone on this board would have been astonished.

[runnersdialzero]

This release is the definition of a cash grab..

I'm avoiding it like the plague. I'm waiting for the real deal.

How is it a cash grab? The tracklist is somewhat disappointing, but why do you assume we'll see a proper release with a full concert?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

21 tracks, including "Marcella" for $14.99?

I have no complaints.

How often do artists release complete concerts on DVD? Some of those songs required way too much polish to make them home theater worthy.

The a-holes giving 1-star reviews just because "whaaaaaa! We deserve more!!!!" are a disgrace to Beach Boys fans. By scaring potential buyers of the product off they are essentially sending a message to the record label that this product is not wanted and therefore they will think twice before producing similar items. STUPID.

The missing songs can be seen easily on youtube.  Sure, I would have liked "Add Some Music" on the DVD as it was a special moment of the show, but I'm sure they reviewed the footage and assembled a very watchable presentation of their live show.

Imagine if Amazon existed in 1970 and "Live at Leeds" got 1 star reviews prior to release based entirely on the tracklisting. "WHAAAA! WHAAAA! I WANT EVERYTHING MY WAY!!!!"

21 songs is far from a "cash grab" or a "rip off". Stop sniveling and act like a man.

[Justin]

21 tracks, including "Marcella" for $14.99?

I have no complaints.

How often do artists release complete concerts on DVD? Some of those songs required way too much polish to make them home theater worthy.

The a-holes giving 1-star reviews just because "whaaaaaa! We deserve more!!!!" are a disgrace to Beach Boys fans. By scaring potential buyers of the product off they are essentially sending a message to the record label that this product is not wanted and therefore they will think twice before producing similar items. STUPID.

The missing songs can be seen easily on youtube.  Sure, I would have liked "Add Some Music" on the DVD as it was a special moment of the show, but I'm sure they reviewed the footage and assembled a very watchable presentation of their live show.

Imagine if Amazon existed in 1970 and "Live at Leeds" got 1 star reviews prior to release based entirely on the tracklisting. "WHAAAA! WHAAAA! I WANT EVERYTHING MY WAY!!!!"

21 songs is far from a "cash grab" or a "rip off". Stop sniveling and act like a man.

+1

[Ron]

Put me firmly in the camp that's happy to have something.  anything. 

[Pretty Funky]

21 tracks, including "Marcella" for $14.99?

I have no complaints.

Even less now. Under $12 on amazon.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

As long as it is mainly live and features as little doctoring as possible, I'm happy.

[KittyKat]

As long as it is mainly live and features as little doctoring as possible, I'm happy.

That's what I'd like to know, too -- how much post production processing? The live performances that were on the PBS special were pretty heavily processed. I wouldn't want to buy a DVD with that type of sound. I understand there will be some tweaking done here and there, but the PBS special sounded like a full Joe Thomas studio production. 

[Ron]

If it really is done by an outside company without Capitol, there can't be too much doctoring, could there?  The boys aren't going to re-record vocals for a third party release.  I hope it's RAW and NASTY. 

[phirnis]

We're probably going to prefer the rough youtube videos anyway. After all, that's what hardcore fans do.

Personally I expect it to be doctered ad nauseam.

[Lowbacca]

Imagine if Amazon existed in 1970 and "Live at Leeds" got 1 star reviews prior to release based entirely on the tracklisting. "WHAAAA! WHAAAA! I WANT EVERYTHING MY WAY!!!!"

If it really is done by an outside company without Capitol, there can't be too much doctoring, could there?  The boys aren't going to re-record vocals for a third party release.  I hope it's RAW and NASTY.

+1!

[Aegir]

I'm going to wait to buy this until I can read some reviews. If there's a lot of overdubbing I don't even see the point in buying it.

[absinthe_boy]

Plenty of other live DVD's chronical entire concerts.

I understand a live album (be it CD or double LP) might take the 'best' 70 minutes or so of repertoire. But a live DVD really should be the entire concert.

Pet Sounds and SMiLE were special in that they showcased specific material. But this is different. I have live DVD's from several other bands which give a typical full setlist from a tour. Licencing....bollocks.

What's the running time of this disc going to be? 60 minutes or so? Most of those songs run 3 minutes, some less. Come on. I've been buying concert videos since the early 80's and MOST of them from the VHS days to today's Blu-Ray discs are full concerts lasting two hours or more...some three hours.

There were a few shorter recordings put out in the early days of VHS, culled from master tapes of TV transmissions which were edited. I know Fleetwood Mac put out a 60 minute cut-down from the Tango tour. And of course Brian's Pet Sounds Live - but that was specifically Pet Sounds and was from the early days of DVD. Even SMiLE includes a 90 minute documentary.

This disc might not be without merit, but it belongs in the $5 bargain bin by the looks of it.

[hypehat]

If it really is done by an outside company without Capitol, there can't be too much doctoring, could there?  The boys aren't going to re-record vocals for a third party release.  I hope it's RAW and NASTY. 

If such is the case, I hope they get other people to overdub vocals. If you're going to go cheap third-party, GO FULL BARGAIN BASEMENT

[acedecade75]

 I wonder if the price being lowered has anything to do with the overwhelming amount of complaints about this release?

[AndrewHickey]

Pet Sounds and SMiLE were special in that they showcased specific material. But this is different. I have live DVD's from several other bands which give a typical full setlist from a tour. Licencing....bollocks.

What's the running time of this disc going to be? 60 minutes or so? Most of those songs run 3 minutes, some less. Come on. I've been buying concert videos since the early 80's and MOST of them from the VHS days to today's Blu-Ray discs are full concerts lasting two hours or more...some three hours.

But how many of those DVDs have more than twenty or so songs?
I've just had a quick look at the concert DVDs I have on my shelves (discounting music documentaries and so on, and not counting things like the Smile, Pet Sounds or Lucky Old Sun DVDs which only advertise a single album's live performance):
The Zombies 40th Anniversary -- 23
George Harrison tribute concert -- 26
Monkees Live Summer Tour -- 21 (cut down from a 40-song set. They *did* do a *VERY* limited, fan-club-only DVD of the full show, but that was made unavailable almost straight away)
Brian Wilson All-Star TNT Tribute -- 21 (missing many songs from the actual show)
Beach Boys at Knebworth -- 21
Leonard Cohen Live In London -- 24
Beach Boys Lost Concert -- 9
Talking Heads: Stop Making Sense -- 16
Neil Young At Canterbury House -- 13
The Bonzo Dog Band 40th Anniversary Celebration -- 28, of which eight are old songs in the public domain that wouldn't incur any licensing costs.

21 songs is, in other words, a perfectly normal length for a concert release. If DVDs by newer bands last longer, that may be because the cost to license the sync rights to Obscure B-Side by The Unknowns is lower than the cost to license California Girls, but also may well be because post-1970s musicians tend to stretch their songs out, especially live.

To check, I just had a look at the top ten music DVDs on Amazon UK. The live ones are as follows:
Westlife -- no tracklisting, and not released yet, but recorded at a 26-song show, so that's the maximum
One Direction -- 16
Led Zeppelin -- 16
Coldplay -- 18
Steps -- 22
Noel Gallagher -- 20 (multiple versions of many songs, but only 20 actual songs -- multiple versions don't cost more licensing money).

Basically, if you're expecting much more than about twenty songs from a DVD by a major artist whose name isn't McCartney (or someone equally able to move a million units of anything just by sticking their name on it), you're living in a dream world.

The licensing issue isn't 'bollocks', but simple fact. Each additional song added increases the cost to the production company by several thousand dollars. If it doesn't bring in several thousand dollars of extra business, then adding songs is just throwing away money.

[Pretty Funky]

I think you also touched on any potential live album Andrew. Same sort of number of tracks from memory. Lets hope they mix it up a little so we get a few more tracks covered between the two products.

[absinthe_boy]

For some of the 'historic' releases such as BB at Knebworth the entire concert may not be available. As I said, in the early 80's a lot of concert VHS releases were simply television specials for which the edited TV show was used.

For the rest you mention, how about running times? It's not necessarily about the number of songs. Led Zeppelin could get well over two hours from their 16 songs and I know the George Harrison DVD was a 2 disc set.

I have plenty of concert DVDs and most of them feature an entire gig, lasting between two and three hours.

[AndrewHickey]

For some of the 'historic' releases such as BB at Knebworth the entire concert may not be available. As I said, in the early 80's a lot of concert VHS releases were simply television specials for which the edited TV show was used.

For the rest you mention, how about running times? It's not necessarily about the number of songs. Led Zeppelin could get well over two hours from their 16 songs and I know the George Harrison DVD was a 2 disc set.

I have plenty of concert DVDs and most of them feature an entire gig, lasting between two and three hours.

The Knebworth show *is* available in its entirety. Five songs were cut, in some cases because the band didn't like the performance, but in at least one case (Happy Birthday) specifically in order to avoid paying royalties for that song.

As for "It's not necessarily about the number of songs."
Yes. It. Is.

That's what they have to pay for. More songs - more money. It doesn't matter if the songs last thirty seconds or two hours, the production company have to pay for each and every one of them. (And incidentally the George Harrison show is a 2-DVD set because it has two different cuts of the show, one with interviews and one without, not because the show itself is especially long).

What you are asking is simply for the production company to throw away any chance they have of making a profit. The fact that other bands' DVDs are longer is neither here nor there. A two-hour DVD with fifteen songs is *hugely* cheaper to produce than a three-hour DVD with fifty. There is no way that you will ever see a legitimate release with that many songs on, as long as those songs are in copyright.

[Letsgoawayforawhile]

Rock And Roll Music?
Really?

They should of at least put Add Some Music on there. Them all around the piano was amazing.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Led Zeppelin Retrospective DVD - 48 songs
The Who: Tommy & Quadrophenia Live - 61 songs
The Rolling Stones Four Flicks - 52 songs

And how about the Live Aid DVD set?  That had over 100 songs and that wasn't even for profit.

The Beach Boys are a popular group.  They have a lot of money.  Capitol Records has a lot of money.  If they don't want to spend the money, then they're just being cheap.