Sunset Sound sessions ?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I'm glad to hear you're keeping it.  I will rest easier knowing it is, as you say, in good hands.

[DonnyL]

I'm glad to hear you're keeping it.  I will rest easier knowing it is, as you say, in good hands.

Thanks Josh !

[c-man]

Wow...to own the machine that likely recorded these sessions, as well as many other notable ones!:

Dec. 2, 1968 - Sunset Sound: COME TO ME (Murry Wilson/The Honeys)
Jan. 13, 1969 - Sunset Sound: SAN MIGUEL
Jan. 24, 1969 - Sunset Sound: SAN MIGUEL
Jan. 27, 1969 - Sunset Sound: SAN MIGUEL
Feb. 13, 1969 - Sunset Sound: I GOT TO KNOW THE WOMAN
Feb. 14, 1969 - Sunset Sound: I GOT TO KNOW THE WOMAN (female background vocals)
Feb. 24, 1969 - Sunset Sound: CELEBRATE THE NEWS
Feb. 24, 1969 - Sunset Sound: CELEBRATE THE NEWS (strings)
Feb. 25, 1969 - Sunset Sound: CELEBRATE THE NEWS (flute)
Mar. 3, 1969 - Sunset Sound: CELEBRATE THE NEWS (Moog)
Mar. 11, 1969 - Sunset Sound: LOOP-DE-LOOP FLIP FLOP FLYING IN AN AIRPLANE (more horns)

[DonnyL]

indeed ... not to mention 'Forever Changes'! I was kind of freaking out earlier thinking about it. In fact, I think the aborted sale attempt was a subconscious panic 'not worthy' response.

I actually did some additional troubleshooting and got the thing running! I'm going to have a tech help me get it fully set up though. It's super clean and intact (more so than any deck I've ever seen in fact). I'm going to have it fully restored.

Yeh, that's why I started this thread to ask you about those sessions! I was working out the logistics of getting the machine at that time.

[hypehat]

Hope I didn't set off too many alarm bells, but glad to know it's safe.

[c-man]

indeed ... not to mention 'Forever Changes'! I was kind of freaking out earlier thinking about it. In fact, I think the aborted sale attempt was a subconscious panic 'not worthy' response.

I actually did some additional troubleshooting and got the thing running! I'm going to have a tech help me get it fully set up though. It's super clean and intact (more so than any deck I've ever seen in fact). I'm going to have it fully restored.

Yeh, that's why I started this thread to ask you about those sessions! I was working out the logistics of getting the machine at that time.

How's about posting a picture, once you get it up & running? 

[DonnyL]

indeed ... not to mention 'Forever Changes'! I was kind of freaking out earlier thinking about it. In fact, I think the aborted sale attempt was a subconscious panic 'not worthy' response.

I actually did some additional troubleshooting and got the thing running! I'm going to have a tech help me get it fully set up though. It's super clean and intact (more so than any deck I've ever seen in fact). I'm going to have it fully restored.

Yeh, that's why I started this thread to ask you about those sessions! I was working out the logistics of getting the machine at that time.

How's about posting a picture, once you get it up & running?  

Actually I got it up and running ... still need to find a suitable rack for the 8 electronic modules though (the original is long gone). I'm still waiting on some 1" tape I ordered, but the only problem I can discern right now is that I can't get channel 1 to pass audio (all others work!). I was able to sort out an earlier problem with the capstan not engaging ... apparently there is a safety lock to prevent damage to the flywheel in transit ... located this info with the help of the very rare manual someone was kind enough to direct me to from the Ampex list.  After I disengaged the lock, the capstan works now!  This machine has an unusual (to me) indirect capstan drive, which means the motor actually connects to another piece (flywheel), which controls the speed. It's fine-tuned with a small screw connected to a spring, which is connected to a hinge/door type assembly. I just need to get some tape rolling to get the speed adjusted ... though the tech I'm hiring has a a more precise way of doing it, so I will probably wait for him.

I have a photo album with a couple (bad) snapshots I made for the guys on the Ampex list, here it is:

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c312/donnylang/Ampex%20AG-300/

[c-man]

Thanks for the photos Donny!  Just remembered that the last Buffalo Springfield album was cut at Sunset, so your machine may have had those honors as well!

[The Shift]

This is a wonderful story to be following.  The technicalities are mostly beyond me but enjoying none the less. Many thanks, DonnyL, and to Craig for that sessions list, which I'm sure will grow.

[guitarfool2002]

I was hoping to find another control room shot showing the angle of the photo with Neil working the board, but I have not seen anything yet. A lot of the photos we can easily find of Sunset Sound in action seem to come from a set of Doors photos and a set of Stones photos from the "Exile" period. Most of them show the studio floor and the band(s) working in the room rather than the control room. Others that do show the control room don't show the gear all that much.

For a comparison, this is a Stones shot where you can see the control room in the background, but notice they have a 2" 16-track machine at the time this photo was shot. Brings up the question: Is there a year or even a specific month where it is known that Sunset stopped using Donny's machine and changed to something else? The Stones historians can take a crack at dating this photo: Needless to say, it obviously shows a 16 track in use by then, which would be expected:





I wish there were another angle from this next shoot. This is John Haeny, Paul Rothchild, and Jim at the board, in glorious full color, during a 1968 "Spanish Caravan" session. Notice Robbie's red Gibson SG perched on top of a rack on the right of the shot. I'm betting anything if the camera had panned to the left, you'd see Donny's tape machine. Great photo - wish there were more!



I think it's easy to assume if you nail down some months and years, and put it together with an approximate date of when Sunset got this machine then later changed machines, whatever sessions happened at Sunset during that time most likely were recorded on this machine. It might be as simple as that!

[DonnyL]

Yeh I searched high and low ... can't find any other photos! Plenty of Doors sessions ALMOST show the right angle! Kind of frustrating. I was also trying to spy this weird remote somewhere near the board, but couldn't find it either !

Yeh the Stones stuff is '72 I think ... they have a 3M M56 16-track (same model they had at BW's house, and which most of Sunflower, Surf's Up, etc. were recorded on).

I'm trying to pinpoint exactly when this machine was there. Seems that 'Strange Days' and some Turtles stuff was done on 8-track at Sunset, but the machine was a 3M M23, rented from Wall Heider. It seems as though Sunset got this Ampex AG-300 8-track around June-July '67. The Buffalo Springfield sessions are Sept I believe.

They were still using 8-track on the Monkees' (Davy Jones') "If I Knew" and "French Song" sessions in June '69. Not sure when they went to 16-track, but it must have been soon after. By 1970, a major studio in L.A. would basically have to have 16-track to stay competitive.

Also, I think they probably still did some 4-track sessions, or at least had a 4-track machine available to transfer, etc. ...

P.S. - this Ampex machine is from '66 and was apparently originally used for the Green Acres TV show. I suppose it was used there for a year before going to Sunset. I wish I had more details about that transition.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Don't know if this helps with any dating whatsoever, but the first documented use of the Bellagio 16-track was October 13th 1969.

[guitarfool2002]

From a research standpoint, there is one name that could be a wealth of information, if he hasn't been contacted already...

[Don Malcolm]

Fantastic thread, guys. Even as a high school guy reading Stephen Desper's Sunflower liner notes when the LP came out in 1970, I could tell that at the time we were in the middle of a sonic revolution, with the BBs smack dab in the middle of it. Good on you, Donny, for keeping that machine--really and truly a priceless artifact.

[c-man]

One thought that I don't see covered above:  Sunset had (has) more than one room....Studio A (aka Studio 1) is where the four-track stuff Brian did in '66 was recorded AND where BWPS was tracked (through the analog board into ProTools), but do we know what model of recorder Studio B (aka Studio 2), or other rooms, used, and what important sessions may have occurred in those other rooms?

[guitarfool2002]

One thought that I don't see covered above:  Sunset had (has) more than one room....Studio A (aka Studio 1) is where the four-track stuff Brian did in '66 was recorded AND where BWPS was tracked (through the analog board into ProTools), but do we know what model of recorder Studio B (aka Studio 2), or other rooms, used, and what important sessions may have occurred in those other rooms?

I may be wrong on this, and if I am please correct...but I *think* Studio 1/Studio A was the main tracking room, where all of the photos posted here and others I have and have seen elsewhere were taken. Sunset was formerly an auto repair garage, and the studio floor sloped on an angle from the garage days and design. In the photos, if you look a certain way at the tracking room, it does look like a garage bay kind of design.

And obviously Donny's tape machine is seen prominently behind Neil Young, so it was there in the tracking studio, Studio 1/A, and unless it was wheeled back and forth between rooms, it was the machine being used for these band sessions, and the one in the control room with the couch in front of the board as seen in the Doors, Stones, Springfield, etc session photos.

I'm guessing...again, please correct if necessary...that any other studios at Sunset were there for either commercial-advertising sessions, voiceover work, mixdowns and mix sessions, and other sessions where a full, live room was not required. These would be the smaller "bread and butter" rooms that are not photographed and that would not be as well known as the bigger rooms where the rock stars came to record. Yet, those smaller rooms may have been what kept the studio(s) in business as they regularly cranked out advertising jingles and radio/TV voiceover spots while the rock stars were in the famous rooms.

Just about every studio had one of these rooms, definitely United/Western had them, and although they were named and labeled they're barely documented or photographed as much because the glamorous sessions were happening in the live tracking rooms. Unless making a 30 second spot for Big Jim's Encino Ford dealership was somehow more noteworthy than a Love or Smile session, there would be no reason to document them or the small rooms.

I may be totally off, but I'm guessing the other studios at Sunset and elsewhere were for those smaller jobs.

[DonnyL]

I think you're right ...

Studio A presumably would have been the 'good' one, so this would be where the 8-track was situated from '67-'69. I would guess studio 'B' probably had a 4-track. An 8-track cost around $25,000 ('60s dollars), so most studios would not be leasing more than one!

I do wonder if this 8-track went to Studio B when Studio A went to 16-track.