When Mitt Romney becomes president.... *FLUX THREAD!*

[Jason]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-president-speaks-un-about-youtube-video-posted-june

Is anyone else as offended by Obama's disgusting "defense" of freedom of speech as I am? I don't know where the hell to begin.

These are the empty, feel-good words from a president whose presidency has been a grand scale of a charade of nothing but empty, feel-good broken promises that has come to include a kill list, assassinations of American citizens without due process or trial, indefinite detention of American citizens without due process or trial, almost a half-dozen new wars, and drone strikes that have killed more innocent people and ruined more families that would have sickened his illustrious predecessor's regime.

Like his offensive "evolution" on gay marriage (a calculated attempt to gain votes in an election year no less, unlike Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, both of whom who actually RAN on the position), this is just more disingenuous pandering designed to make his small-brained and simple-minded supporters feel good about themselves and their Organizer/Redistributor-in-Chief.

[Awesoman]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-president-speaks-un-about-youtube-video-posted-june

Is anyone else as offended by Obama's disgusting "defense" of freedom of speech as I am? I don't know where the hell to begin.

These are the empty, feel-good words from a president whose presidency has been a grand scale of a charade of nothing but empty, feel-good broken promises that has come to include a kill list, assassinations of American citizens without due process or trial, indefinite detention of American citizens without due process or trial, almost a half-dozen new wars, and drone strikes that have killed more innocent people and ruined more families that would have sickened his illustrious predecessor's regime.

Like his offensive "evolution" on gay marriage (a calculated attempt to gain votes in an election year no less, unlike Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, both of whom who actually RAN on the position), this is just more disingenuous pandering designed to make his small-brained and simple-minded supporters feel good about themselves and their Organizer/Redistributor-in-Chief.

I see he's still blaming that YouTube video for all the rioting and murders that took place in the Middle East, despite all intel pointing to the chaos as planned and calculated.  Tells you just how soft a candidate Romney is; he should be mopping the floor with Obama in the polls. 

[Jason]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-president-speaks-un-about-youtube-video-posted-june

Is anyone else as offended by Obama's disgusting "defense" of freedom of speech as I am? I don't know where the hell to begin.

These are the empty, feel-good words from a president whose presidency has been a grand scale of a charade of nothing but empty, feel-good broken promises that has come to include a kill list, assassinations of American citizens without due process or trial, indefinite detention of American citizens without due process or trial, almost a half-dozen new wars, and drone strikes that have killed more innocent people and ruined more families that would have sickened his illustrious predecessor's regime.

Like his offensive "evolution" on gay marriage (a calculated attempt to gain votes in an election year no less, unlike Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, both of whom who actually RAN on the position), this is just more disingenuous pandering designed to make his small-brained and simple-minded supporters feel good about themselves and their Organizer/Redistributor-in-Chief.

I see he's still blaming that YouTube video for all the rioting and murders that took place in the Middle East, despite all intel pointing to the chaos as planned and calculated.  Tells you just how soft a candidate Romney is; he should be mopping the floor with Obama in the polls. 

He won't. A choice between Romney and Obama is basically a choice between more of the same and more of the same. Whichever one wins, we're all f***ed.

[RadBooley]

Man, love those Beach Boys, eh?

[Jason]

Best damned band in the world! But we're all in FLUX here...

[Cabinessenceking]

what are people still talking here for? It looks like the end game will be very one sided and another 4 years for Obama. Hopefully BB's will be in White House soon (given that they are finally together again)!!!

what might be more interesting than the election itself at this stage is not the result but the consequences. Will GOP split up? will GOP moderates reclaim the ball from the crazies? for the sake of their party and fiscal conservative politics, I hope they do. Romney was simply the best of the worst. All his adversaries were nobodies. When Reagan won his primary he beat a future president, Bob Dole and other signficants. Romney beat some religious anti-abortion zealots, a Texas gov who couldn't remember his 3 departments, a minor yet disgruntled Libertarian, a disgraced former House Speaker and a foreign dignitary appointed by the Obama administration. Hopefully this rediculous rivalry will result in both Democrats and GOP breaking into smaller parties will resulting coalition politics rather than the rediculous beast two party politics currently in place.

No one here more than myself would love to see the illusory two-party system implode, crumble, and splinter. To be fair, the Ron Paul campaign was the most moderate campaign within the GOP since probably the Robert Taft days; along with Gary Johnson's campaign it brought more people together than any of the other GOP campaigns AND Obama's campaign combined. It brought people of all ages and walks of life together - disgruntled former Obama supporters and all manner of civil and economic libertarians. To say that the man behind the movement was "disgruntled" is indicative of an astounding lack of knowledge amplified by pure ignorance. I'd say the man's been vindicated after thirty-some odd years and the rest of the political landscape is trying to play catch-up.

The rest of the GOP candidates were just liberals who go to church.

you got me wrong there. Personally I considered Ron Paul the only real candidate there. Mitt was the only other moderate there (though he is corporation material). However as much as I liked Ron outspoken stance, he made himself completely inelectable by preaching doom for the US. Whether he is right or not is a different matter, but voters (especially the more nationalistic sort found on the right) don't want to hear that their country is going to sh*t, so they all ignored Ron, marginalising him completely from the nomination process. That may say more about the GOP voters than anything. Might alos be why GOP voters watch Fox, people love to hear their opinions confirmed in one format or the other. For the Right, that can infringe on facts, but they won't mind as long as they are told they are right about an issue.

[guitarfool2002]

Might alos be why GOP voters watch Fox, people love to hear their opinions confirmed in one format or the other. For the Right, that can infringe on facts, but they won't mind as long as they are told they are right about an issue.

It needs to be restated that it is by no means exclusive to Fox. Substitute "the Left" and "Democrat voters" and "MSNBC" in this statement and we'll cover that side of the aisle too, deservedly so. It's one in the same as far as slanting the news to appeal to a demographic, the only difference is the ideology being represented.

The much larger issue is where can we turn to get a legitimate reporting of any given news event? It's not difficult to see on which candidate the major networks, the big-city newspapers, and even the non-news media heaps more of the "positive" attention and "pro-" rather than "con-" coverage. It's not difficult to see in light of the recent anti-American violence in the Middle East how and why certain "mainstream" news outlets continue to focus on the YouTube video as the thing most responsible for the violence rather than the radical Islamists who are the ones who actually carried out the violent acts. At least we finally got at least a half-hearted admission from the Administration that indeed it was a pre-planned military style attack and not a spontaneous public reaction to a film that got out of hand.

I'd recommend anyone participating in these discussions to search for and read the "farewell" column written by New York Times public editor Arthur Brisbane. It caused a whole sh*t-storm of anger among certain folks, yet he managed to confirm what a growing number of people have been saying about the Times for decades. To sum up (hopefully doing the column justice in doing so...), Brisbane says that yes, indeed, within the Times' newsrooms and among reporters and other employees there is indeed a culture which exists at the paper that includes a strong left-leaning political and philosophical bias, what appears to be almost a group-think mentality where certain opinions are just naturally taken to be correct over others...and the "factual" part of reporting the news is directly affected by this, to the point that news stories are deliberately presented in a pro- or -con opinion column fashion rather than reported as hard facts.

Again, please read Brisbane in his own words for the full story, don't take my summary of it.

Whenever the reaction is as strong as it was among certain circles to Brisbane's column (revelations from within?), you know it touched a nerve. For me it was like telling me that 2+2=4, a classic "no sh*t!" moment, because I had given up on the Times years ago and will ignore most or all of what comes from it for a variety of reasons. In no way do I accept the Times as "The Paper Of Record" any more than I accepted Walter Cronkite as "The Most Trusted Man In America". It's all pure hogwash.

Ultimately the news should be just that - the news. Fox and MSNBC serve a purpose, they both belong and in many ways we should watch both networks and take notes from each side.

But it is pretty strong evidence to have a New York Times public editor pull back the curtain on the Wizard Of Oz and come right out saying that yes, his newspaper was slanted and biased in its reporting, and some of that comes from the very culture within the newsrooms and among employees of that newspaper. That, to me, equals an admission that we as readers cannot trust The Times for a fair reporting of any story.

It also tells me that The Times is far from alone in that fashion, so a lot of people seeking out solid news coverage need to ask "Where do we go for our news?". I'd say the answer lies somewhere within a comparison to a dinner buffet, where you pay a flat fee to get your plate and utensils and whatever food you are most hungry for is what goes on your plate. I don't think there can be a trusted source for solid information at this point, especially witnessing the type of reporting that passes for "journalism" on the 2012 campaign trail. Very sad.

[RickD]

If you haven't been following the news for a few year, the "civilized" countries, EU members, Australia, Japan are in perpetual economic collapse.

That'll be news to a lot of Australians! You might want to brush up on world economics.

[Paulos]

So, who are you guys going to vote for? The giant douche or turd sandwich?

[Jason]

So, who are you guys going to vote for? The giant douche or turd sandwich?

Gary Johnson.

[Jason]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

[SMiLE Brian]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

George Washington was right to warn about entangling alliances.

[Jason]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

George Washington was right to warn about entangling alliances.

You sure aren't kidding...

[Aegir]

That bomb picture is absurd.

[Jason]

That bomb picture is absurd.

I immediately thought "it's like Wile E. Coyote's blueprints to get that pesky Road Runner."

[hypehat]

That bomb picture is absurd.

I immediately thought "it's like Wile E. Coyote's blueprints to get that pesky Road Runner."

You guys probably hate The Onion, but this sprang to mind...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/glowing-ahmadinejad-i-am-the-nuclear-weapon-weve-b,29698/

[GreatUrduPoet]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

Uh...were you the guy that I saw chanting "Seig Heil" at the Westboro Baptist Church demonstartion on the news?

[SMiLE Brian]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

Uh...were you the guy that I saw chanting "Seig Heil" at the Westboro Baptist Church demonstartion on the news?

What has that nation ever done for us? Look up the Jonathan Pollard spy case and the USS liberty attack.

[Jason]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

Uh...were you the guy that I saw chanting "Seig Heil" at the Westboro Baptist Church demonstartion on the news?

Godwin's law, argument over.

[guitarfool2002]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

Uh...were you the guy that I saw chanting "Seig Heil" at the Westboro Baptist Church demonstartion on the news?

What has that nation ever done for us? Look up the Jonathan Pollard spy case and the USS liberty attack.

Would accepting that idiot from Iran's "New World Order" which he expressed at the UN be a better option? Or how about a world ruled under Sharia law...a better option?

So the idea of using religion or using an organized religion to govern, dominate, or strike militarily is disgusting for every religion except those nations and societies using Islam in an extreme way to justify these behaviors, and not even trying to hide it?

If that's the kind of "New World Order" we want, well then yes, Israel and the US are dangerous and "the most terrifying" to those terrorist groups like the PLO.

Selective outrage, it's easy to spot, and it's on full display here. Israel, the most terrifying nation? Nonsense. Unless you want your wife, girlfriend, daughter, granddaughter, whatever wearing a scarf and covering up in public, then walking a few steps behind "her man" to show submission, and not enjoying the basic right to be who they are rather than be submissive to a man. f*** that uncivilized sh*t, but if that's appealing there are several societies ruled under radical Islamic beliefs where that kind of life is the norm - I'm sure they'll welcome a new resident with open arms.

Personally, there isn't much to suggest a "war" of any kind would solve anything, but this embrace of Iran, Palestine and the PLO, etc. from some folks is disturbing and maddening. No nation is perfect, far from that, but if there is support for nations which actively support terrorism and finance and conduct terrorist activities around the globe...Israel is far from the most "terrifying" nation.

[SMiLE Brian]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

Uh...were you the guy that I saw chanting "Seig Heil" at the Westboro Baptist Church demonstartion on the news?

What has that nation ever done for us? Look up the Jonathan Pollard spy case and the USS liberty attack.

Would accepting that idiot from Iran's "New World Order" which he expressed at the UN be a better option? Or how about a world ruled under Sharia law...a better option?

So the idea of using religion or using an organized religion to govern, dominate, or strike militarily is disgusting for every religion except those nations and societies using Islam in an extreme way to justify these behaviors, and not even trying to hide it?

If that's the kind of "New World Order" we want, well then yes, Israel and the US are dangerous and "the most terrifying" to those terrorist groups like the PLO.

Selective outrage, it's easy to spot, and it's on full display here. Israel, the most terrifying nation? Nonsense. Unless you want your wife, girlfriend, daughter, granddaughter, whatever wearing a scarf and covering up in public, then walking a few steps behind "her man" to show submission, and not enjoying the basic right to be who they are rather than be submissive to a man. f*** that uncivilized sh*t, but if that's appealing there are several societies ruled under radical Islamic beliefs where that kind of life is the norm - I'm sure they'll welcome a new resident with open arms.

Personally, there isn't much to suggest a "war" of any kind would solve anything, but this embrace of Iran, Palestine and the PLO, etc. from some folks is disturbing and maddening. No nation is perfect, far from that, but if there is support for nations which actively support terrorism and finance and conduct terrorist activities around the globe...Israel is far from the most "terrifying" nation.

Israel can fight this war if they need to with their cutting edge arsenal (made in USA). Iran would never attack Israel head on because of the huge Nuclear Arsenal Israel has.

[Jason]

Newsflash...Israel and the United States have actively supported and financed terrorist activities around the globe. It's done under the name "foreign policy". And nobody here is defending Iran. I mean, we only allowed them to have a nuclear program under the Shah back in the 1970s, but not anymore since they don't play by our rules. But there's no proof they have a bomb, no proof that they're developing a bomb, and even Israeli and American intelligence has proven that they are not developing a bomb.

You know why we invaded Iraq? It's because our former best buddy Saddam Hussein wanted to sell Iraqi oil in the euro and not the dollar. Same reason we supported the overthrow of Gaddafi, except he wanted to sell Libyan oil in the Libyan dinar. Iran has been selling oil to India and China in rupees and gold. THERE ARE NO BOMBS. The whole thing is fucking pointless.

This is the same bullshit that happened in Iraq. Build up the war propaganda! There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq. And they had nuclear weapons and we HAD to go in! It's time we quit this nonsense. It's trillions of dollars we're wasting on these wars!

[Jason]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/world/middleeast/netanyahu-warns-that-iran-bombmaking-ability-is-nearer.html?_r=0

I'm starting to think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the worst war criminal on this planet...and DAMN, there's tight competition. There is no nation on this planet more terrifying than Israel.

Uh...were you the guy that I saw chanting "Seig Heil" at the Westboro Baptist Church demonstartion on the news?

What has that nation ever done for us? Look up the Jonathan Pollard spy case and the USS liberty attack.

Would accepting that idiot from Iran's "New World Order" which he expressed at the UN be a better option? Or how about a world ruled under Sharia law...a better option?

So the idea of using religion or using an organized religion to govern, dominate, or strike militarily is disgusting for every religion except those nations and societies using Islam in an extreme way to justify these behaviors, and not even trying to hide it?

If that's the kind of "New World Order" we want, well then yes, Israel and the US are dangerous and "the most terrifying" to those terrorist groups like the PLO.

Selective outrage, it's easy to spot, and it's on full display here. Israel, the most terrifying nation? Nonsense. Unless you want your wife, girlfriend, daughter, granddaughter, whatever wearing a scarf and covering up in public, then walking a few steps behind "her man" to show submission, and not enjoying the basic right to be who they are rather than be submissive to a man. f*** that uncivilized sh*t, but if that's appealing there are several societies ruled under radical Islamic beliefs where that kind of life is the norm - I'm sure they'll welcome a new resident with open arms.

Personally, there isn't much to suggest a "war" of any kind would solve anything, but this embrace of Iran, Palestine and the PLO, etc. from some folks is disturbing and maddening. No nation is perfect, far from that, but if there is support for nations which actively support terrorism and finance and conduct terrorist activities around the globe...Israel is far from the most "terrifying" nation.

Israel can fight this war if they need to with their cutting edge arsenal (made in USA). Iran would never attack Israel head on because of the huge Nuclear Arsenal Israel has.

Exactly. It's called mutually-assured destruction. Iran isn't exactly good news but they pose no actual threat to anyone. I mean, we only have like, what, three dozen bases AROUND Iran? Never mind the fact that Iran actually signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, something that Israel (a country with at least five hundred nuclear weapons) hasn't.

[SBonilla]

Newsflash...Israel and the United States have actively supported and financed terrorist activities around the globe. It's done under the name "foreign policy". And nobody here is defending Iran. I mean, we only allowed them to have a nuclear program under the Shah back in the 1970s, but not anymore since they don't play by our rules. But there's no proof they have a bomb, no proof that they're developing a bomb, and even Israeli and American intelligence has proven that they are not developing a bomb.

You know why we invaded Iraq? It's because our former best buddy Saddam Hussein wanted to sell Iraqi oil in the euro and not the dollar. Same reason we supported the overthrow of Gaddafi, except he wanted to sell Libyan oil in the Libyan dinar. Iran has been selling oil to India and China in rupees and gold. THERE ARE NO BOMBS. The whole thing is f***ing pointless.

This is the same bullsh*t that happened in Iraq. Build up the war propaganda! There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq. And they had nuclear weapons and we HAD to go in! It's time we quit this nonsense. It's trillions of dollars we're wasting on these wars!

Bingo on that!

[guitarfool2002]

No one here at least is advocating a war. But for f***'s sake, let's scrap the moral relativism nonsense and look at Mr. Ahmadinejad's calls for the New World order, combined with his calls to "destroy Israel" and any number of similar calls he has made, and call it for what it is.

I agree, the US can ill afford to enter into foreign policy boondoggles all around the globe - actually if the UN did anything significant, that would be in their scope but that's another story - but at the same time bringing up all of the ills of the US, how we "sponsored terrorism" and all of that...it's the same old worn-out crap that usually comes from the left that garners a big "so what?" in terms of the big picture.

Simplify all of it...in the right here and right now of 2012: Would the world be better off if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad got his way and "won" by seeing his wish to destroy Israel come true?