The Smiley Smile Message Board
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
If you like this message board, please help with the hosting costs!
680601
Posts in
27601
Topics by
4068
Members - Latest Member:
Dae Lims
March 29, 2024, 04:00:59 PM
The Smiley Smile Message Board
|
Smiley Smile Stuff
|
General On Topic Discussions
|
In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
4
Author
Topic: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse...... (Read 12215 times)
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
on:
August 29, 2012, 10:20:06 AM »
After Brian's original sprawling vision for 'SMiLE' collapsed, I've often wondered why he didn't simply pick out the best completed pieces and put that out as 'SMiLE'. In other words - why go and re-record a bunch of stripped down versions and make 'Smiley Smile'? We know he had 'Good Vibrations', 'Heroes & Villains', 'Wonderful', 'Wind Chimes', 'Surf's Up', 'Vegetables', 'My Prayer', 'Cabinessence', 'Roll Plymouth Rock', and 'You're Welcome' in the can. Why not just release those songs? Cue them up in any running order. And in time to compete with 'Sgt. Peppers'. They were done and they were brilliant! That's a far superior package to 'Smiley Smile' in my humble opinion.
Logged
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4925
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #1 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:24:23 AM »
Because he worked very hard on the smile recordings to be released a certain way. I think releasing those recording in an abbreviated and non-representative fashion was repugnant to him.
Logged
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #2 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:29:02 AM »
Quote from: pixletwin on August 29, 2012, 10:24:23 AM
Because he worked very hard on the smile recordings to be released a certain way. I think releasing those recording in an abbreviated and non-representative fashion was repugnant to him.
I understand. But to have a masterpiece like 'Surf's Up' completed and in the can and then just to leave it unreleased.....wow.
Logged
EgoHanger1966
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2891
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #3 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:35:07 AM »
Quote from: originals on August 29, 2012, 10:29:02 AM
Quote from: pixletwin on August 29, 2012, 10:24:23 AM
Because he worked very hard on the smile recordings to be released a certain way. I think releasing those recording in an abbreviated and non-representative fashion was repugnant to him.
I understand. But to have a masterpiece like 'Surf's Up' completed and in the can and then just to leave it unreleased.....wow.
Well, sure, but It wasn't completed and in the can. There was the first movement backing track recorded (no vocals), and the piano demo.
Logged
Hal Blaine:"You're gonna get a tomata all over yer puss!"
Brian: "Don't say puss."
I. Spaceman
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 2271
Revolution Never Again
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #4 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:36:57 AM »
Concocting the melted-down, intense and strange Smiley Smile was a much more artistic decision than putting out an unfinished symphony would have been.
Logged
Nobody gives a sh*t about the Record Room
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4925
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #5 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:37:10 AM »
Edit: What egohangar said....
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #6 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:49:59 AM »
Quote from: originals on August 29, 2012, 10:20:06 AM
After Brian's original sprawling vision for 'SMiLE' collapsed, I've often wondered why he didn't simply pick out the best completed pieces and put that out as 'SMiLE'. In other words - why go and re-record a bunch of stripped down versions and make 'Smiley Smile'? We know he had 'Good Vibrations', 'Heroes & Villains', 'Wonderful', 'Wind Chimes', 'Surf's Up', 'Vegetables', 'My Prayer', 'Cabinessence', 'Roll Plymouth Rock', and 'You're Welcome' in the can. Why not just release those songs? Cue them up in any running order. And in time to compete with 'Sgt. Peppers'. They were done and they were brilliant! That's a far superior package to 'Smiley Smile' in my humble opinion.
Because I think there was pressure to put out an album and he couldn't do Smile justice in the time frame he had and the model used Smiley Smile allowed him to put something out quickly. Since no actual music was used from the Smile-era except for a bit of Vega-tables and Good Vibrations, he left it open enough so that he could return to it. But that never happened until much, much later.
«
Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 10:51:10 AM by rockandroll
»
Logged
Turtle_13
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 23
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #7 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:54:45 AM »
An area of interest to me is the role of Carl, Dennis and Stephen in resurrecting the SMilE tapes in 1969 for 20/20 and then again for Sunflower and Surf's Up albums.
Especially Carl, we can't thank him enough.
Has this come up as a topic before because I'd like to know more of the lengths that he went to to get this stuff released. Can the resident expert, Stephen, shed any light?
(Meant to post in the other thread but the Cool Cool Water video and the song extracts are spectacular thanks to Stephen and Will C. and The BB's, of course).
It wasn't until the release of the boxset last year that we found out that Carl only sang the lead in "Cabin Essense" in 1969, right? Everyone assumed they had been done in 66 or 67.
I'm only speculating but was this one of the reasons that Van Dyke didn't contribute to the project last year, maybe he believed that The Beach Boys had done more vocal work back in the day, maybe they had, but for whatever reason these tapes were erased, lost, whatever. Obviously the attitude of Mike to singing these lyrics was a factor as well.
Logged
buddhahat
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2643
Hi, my name's Doug. Would you like to dance?
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #8 on:
August 29, 2012, 10:56:06 AM »
Quote from: rockandroll on August 29, 2012, 10:49:59 AM
Quote from: originals on August 29, 2012, 10:20:06 AM
After Brian's original sprawling vision for 'SMiLE' collapsed, I've often wondered why he didn't simply pick out the best completed pieces and put that out as 'SMiLE'. In other words - why go and re-record a bunch of stripped down versions and make 'Smiley Smile'? We know he had 'Good Vibrations', 'Heroes & Villains', 'Wonderful', 'Wind Chimes', 'Surf's Up', 'Vegetables', 'My Prayer', 'Cabinessence', 'Roll Plymouth Rock', and 'You're Welcome' in the can. Why not just release those songs? Cue them up in any running order. And in time to compete with 'Sgt. Peppers'. They were done and they were brilliant! That's a far superior package to 'Smiley Smile' in my humble opinion.
Because I think there was pressure to put out an album and he couldn't do Smile justice in the time frame he had and the model used Smiley Smile allowed him to put something out quickly. Since no actual music was used from the Smile-era except for a bit of Vega-tables and Good Vibrations, he left it open enough so that he could return to it. But that never happened until much, much later.
This seems most likely to me. He left his options open to release the material further on down the line. I think the Wild Honey Surf's Up demo supports this theory. I wonder if he'd given up on Smile by the time 20/20 was released though.
Logged
Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes ......
EgoHanger1966
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2891
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #9 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:02:09 AM »
Quote from: Turtle_13 on August 29, 2012, 10:54:45 AM
It wasn't until the release of the boxset last year that we found out that Carl only sang the lead in "Cabin Essense" in 1969, right? Everyone assumed they had been done in 66 or 67.
We knew this long before the box.
Logged
Hal Blaine:"You're gonna get a tomata all over yer puss!"
Brian: "Don't say puss."
Matt Bielewicz
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 648
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #10 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:03:28 AM »
Originals wrote:
"We know he had 'Good Vibrations', 'Heroes & Villains', 'Wonderful', 'Wind Chimes', 'Surf's Up', 'Vegetables', 'My Prayer', 'Cabinessence', 'Roll Plymouth Rock', and 'You're Welcome' in the can"...
Weeeeelllll... not really. He had a bunch of unmixed sections in the can that might have gone to make up those songs, if he put a lot more mixing and editing work in. Many of those were just sections of multitrack tape with overdubs in Summer 1967. The only finished one was GV.
Don't forget, Mark Linett had to do a LOT of work to the SMiLE tapes to get even the sparse versions featured on the 1993 GV box set done and out. And that was with the benefit of 90s tech. Doing the more advanced versions for the SMiLE box needed a lot MORE work, and that with 21st century tech.
In 1967 Brian didn't have the advantages of ANY of that... AND he was totally burnt out on working in that modular fashion, mixing and splicing and overdubbing and all that. Which has got to be one of the reasons he didn't finish that stuff off, but just recorded Smiley in a much simpler way, and went down that road.
That's how I see it, anyway.
«
Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 11:08:15 AM by Matt Bielewicz
»
Logged
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #11 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:06:48 AM »
Many would disagree with me, and that's okay - - but I've never been a fan of 'Smiley Smile'. I can't understand why a great song like 'He Gives Speeches' could become the bizarre and silly throwaway 'She's Going Bald', for example. Or how the original 'Windchimes' could be transformed into the inferior version on 'Smiley Smile' and released instead. I don't mean to offend anyone who loves the album - - these are all just preferences. But I still think the music world would have taken alot more notice had the Beach Boys released what had been finished of 'SMiLE' at the time rather than put out 'Smiley Smile'.
Logged
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #12 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:13:07 AM »
Quote from: Matt Bielewicz on August 29, 2012, 11:03:28 AM
Don't forget, Mark Linett had to do a LOT of work to the SMiLE tapes to get even the sparse versions featured on the 1993 GV box set done and out. And that was with the benefit of 90s tech. Doing the more advanced versions for the SMiLE box needed a lot MORE work, and that with 21st century tech.
Great points.
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #13 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:21:06 AM »
Quote from: originals on August 29, 2012, 11:06:48 AM
Many would disagree with me, and that's okay - - but I've never been a fan of 'Smiley Smile'. I can't understand why a great song like 'He Gives Speeches' could become the bizarre and silly throwaway 'She's Going Bald', for example.
Hmm...interesting. He Gives Speeches sounds much more like the throwaway track to me, reinforced by the fact that it was thrown away so many times. It never seemed like it was ever considered a serious contender for the Smile album except maybe a brief period around the time it was recorded. As it stands, it seems like a fragment though what it could be connected to, I haven't the slightest clue and its recording date makes it even more cryptic in this regard. She's Going Bald is bizarre, but it is also a much more interesting track in my opinion and who knows maybe the full SS track gives some indication of the fuller structure of He Gives Speeches.
Quote
Or how the original 'Windchimes' could be transformed into the inferior version on 'Smiley Smile' and released instead. I don't mean to offend anyone who loves the album - - these are all just preferences. But I still think the music world would have taken alot more notice had the Beach Boys released what had been finished of 'SMiLE' at the time rather than put out 'Smiley Smile'.
Maybe so. But I think Smile was also a deeply personal project for Brian and I think he wanted it to be as perfect as it could possibly be and this is why it would have been one of the worst things imaginable for him to put out a rushed release made up of the songs that he recorded during that period.
Logged
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #14 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:23:22 AM »
I appreciate everyone's responses and see that my initial thesis was flawed; the album wasn't as complete as I thought it was at the time.
That's why I love this board!
Logged
hypehat
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 6311
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #15 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:25:55 AM »
What's interesting about He Gives Speeches is that Van Dyke Parks doesn't claim the lyrics as his. Is he credited with writing it in TSS?
Logged
Quote from: ontor pertawst on October 06, 2012, 06:05:25 PM
All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
Quote from: Andrew G. Doe on May 15, 2012, 12:33:42 PM
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?
Quote from: Al Jardine
Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #16 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:29:09 AM »
Quote from: hypehat on August 29, 2012, 11:25:55 AM
What's interesting about He Gives Speeches is that Van Dyke Parks doesn't claim the lyrics as his. Is he credited with writing it in TSS?
I don't have the box in front of me but yes that is strange. Also, I think he's wrong. People have suggested on here that it is Brian writing a Parks-like lyric but that doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he do that? Especially when he is, you know, working frequently with Van Dyke Parks at this time, probably seeing him almost daily. Then there is that pesky issue with Parks being credited on Bald. Seems to me to be the overwhelming proof that he had something to do with the song. Wind Chimes on the other hand - I think the original credit on that was correct. Just Brian. Doesn't sound like Parks to me, at all.
Logged
Reddiwhip
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 75
Pop those buttons right off of my shirt
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #17 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:31:46 AM »
I would say that Brian didn't want to release Smile without being able to tell the story. You also have to remember that as schizoid as Brian's personality may have been at the time (it's a humour album, but wait, it's about America and the pioneers, but we also want to make sure we talk about being healthy), he tended to come up with a concept before going into the project. He's a completist in that way. You can't tell the proper story if you don't have all of the pieces.
Logged
"Big Sur?" "Nope, big mama!" "HAHAHAHA. What the hell does that mean?"
While at port adieu or die
pixletwin
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 4925
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #18 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:34:52 AM »
IIRC Brian is credited as writing the words to He Gives Speeches.
Logged
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #19 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:35:38 AM »
Quote from: pixletwin on August 29, 2012, 11:34:52 AM
IIRC Brian is credited as writing the words to He Gives Speeches.
I always imagine the song being about Murry.
Logged
The Heartical Don
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 4761
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #20 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:42:35 AM »
Quote from: originals on August 29, 2012, 11:06:48 AM
Many would disagree with me, and that's okay - - but I've never been a fan of 'Smiley Smile'. I can't understand why a great song like 'He Gives Speeches' could become the bizarre and silly throwaway 'She's Going Bald', for example. Or how the original 'Windchimes' could be transformed into the inferior version on 'Smiley Smile' and released instead. I don't mean to offend anyone who loves the album - - these are all just preferences. But I still think the music world would have taken alot more notice had the Beach Boys released what had been finished of 'SMiLE' at the time rather than put out 'Smiley Smile'.
The Don sees Smiley Smile as a unique artistic endeavour all on its own, just like Love You. Preferably not to be judged with other material in mind.
Logged
80% Of Success Is Showing Up
originals
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 189
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #21 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:43:42 AM »
Quote from: The Heartical Don on August 29, 2012, 11:42:35 AM
Quote from: originals on August 29, 2012, 11:06:48 AM
Many would disagree with me, and that's okay - - but I've never been a fan of 'Smiley Smile'. I can't understand why a great song like 'He Gives Speeches' could become the bizarre and silly throwaway 'She's Going Bald', for example. Or how the original 'Windchimes' could be transformed into the inferior version on 'Smiley Smile' and released instead. I don't mean to offend anyone who loves the album - - these are all just preferences. But I still think the music world would have taken alot more notice had the Beach Boys released what had been finished of 'SMiLE' at the time rather than put out 'Smiley Smile'.
The Don sees Smiley Smile as a unique artistic endeavour all on its own, just like Love You. Preferably not to be judged with other material in mind.
Maybe that's my problem - I've been tempted to compare the two.
Logged
joshferrell
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 1634
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #22 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:45:38 AM »
I always thought he just gave up and Smiley smile was a Passive agressive thing by him,,
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2871
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #23 on:
August 29, 2012, 11:58:04 AM »
Quote from: pixletwin on August 29, 2012, 11:34:52 AM
IIRC Brian is credited as writing the words to He Gives Speeches.
Talk about bizarre.
Logged
EgoHanger1966
Smiley Smile Associate
Offline
Posts: 2891
Re: In The Aftermath of SMiLE's Collapse......
«
Reply #24 on:
August 29, 2012, 12:03:03 PM »
Quote from: joshferrell on August 29, 2012, 11:45:38 AM
I always thought he just gave up and Smiley smile was a Passive agressive thing by him,,
Yeah, it can be viewed as his "fine, here's your album" to Capitol, that's an easy one, but I wouldn't say it's the definitive answer. On top of all the existing information, they must have been pressuring him like crazy. The blame can't be placed on Capitol really - they were just doing what any label does - there should be product as scheduled to satisfy markets and make green. They were being held at the (love and) mercy of Brian - imagine the suits sweating in the tower. I don't know if Brian ever thought of them, I suspect he did but his attempts at completing the album were still stunted by too much of
everything
. Too many fragments, different sections, and also complicated by the prehistoric way of editing done in '67. And there there was the fact that Brian was always coming up with new ideas (pipe dreams, some of them), and focusing on too many ideas at once, leaving many incomplete thoughts to just sit. He probably realised all of this, and the "screw it, let's do it this way (Smiley Smile)" was probably more of an idea to take the pressure off
himself
rather than the Capitol execs.
And, still, this has to be brought up every so often, the session tapes of Smiley Smile show Brian to be totally in control and aware of what he wants. It's the same producer of Pet Sounds and SMiLE, but just leading his team in a different direction.
Logged
Hal Blaine:"You're gonna get a tomata all over yer puss!"
Brian: "Don't say puss."
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
4
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> BRIAN WILSON Q & A
=> Welcome to the Smiley Smile board
=> General On Topic Discussions
===> Ask The Honored Guests
===> Smiley Smile Reference Threads
=> Smile Sessions Box Set (2011)
=> The Beach Boys Media
=> Concert Reviews
=> Album, Book and Video Reviews And Discussions
===> 1960's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1970's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1980's Beach Boys Albums
===> 1990's Beach Boys Albums
===> 21st Century Beach Boys Albums
===> Brian Wilson Solo Albums
===> Other Solo Albums
===> Produced by or otherwise related to
===> Tribute Albums
===> DVDs and Videos
===> Book Reviews
===> 'Rank the Tracks'
===> Polls
-----------------------------
Non Smiley Smile Stuff
-----------------------------
=> General Music Discussion
=> General Entertainment Thread
=> Smiley Smilers Who Make Music
=> The Sandbox
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 1.1 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi
design by
Bloc
Loading...