Would Surfs Up have been the Greatest?

[Gabo]

It's mostly the attempt at ecologically-conscious lyrics that turns me off. With maybe the exception of Tree, all the lyrics for those songs feel a bit strained and artificial. River Song feels totally genuine because Denny wrote and sung it like he really meant it, whereas DGNTW feels like a trashy attempt at getting in at what was hip more than anything. I spose Rieley could be the one to be blamed for this, but nyeh

I loooove DGNTW. It is sooo catchy, even if it is pretty stupid.

Also, the tag is brilliant.

[Dudd]

It's mostly the attempt at ecologically-conscious lyrics that turns me off. With maybe the exception of Tree, all the lyrics for those songs feel a bit strained and artificial. River Song feels totally genuine because Denny wrote and sung it like he really meant it, whereas DGNTW feels like a trashy attempt at getting in at what was hip more than anything. I spose Rieley could be the one to be blamed for this, but nyeh

I loooove DGNTW. It is sooo catchy, even if it is pretty stupid.

Also, the tag is brilliant.

I like listening to it (agreed that the tag is very nice), but the lyrics aren't great. Especially Al's part, which is almost cheerfully stupid. I love how he just grins while singing it in the video.

[Rotat]

The lyrics are really dumb. A 10 year old could have wrote them I feel. The song is really good though, and it is quite catchy. I appreciated it even more when I heard the instrumental version on MIC. Really a great arrangement.

I always found it funny (noticeable on the 2-fers especially) that Cool Cool Water from the previous album comes right before Don't Go Near The Water on the next album. First they extol the virtues of water and a year later they're telling us not to go near it.  

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I like Surf's Up just as it is and wouldn't change a thing. Denny's songs wouldn't have been an improvement in my mind.

You don't think adding Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again would've improved Surf's Up? ? ?

[Cam Mott]

I like Surf's Up just as it is and wouldn't change a thing. Denny's songs wouldn't have been an improvement in my mind.

You don't think adding Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again would've improved Surf's Up? ? ?

Nope. A sideways move at best in my opinion.

[pixletwin]

4th of July is what opened my mind to the possibility that there existed good BB material post-Smile.

Different strokes I guess.

[The Shift]

I'm glad Dennis's songs didn't make Surf's Up. Too slow and boring.

[filledeplage]

I like Surf's Up just as it is and wouldn't change a thing. Denny's songs wouldn't have been an improvement in my mind.

You don't think adding Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again would've improved Surf's Up? ? ?

My take is that it should have been a double LP, and room for all the BRI "principals" to submit their work.   

[Dove Nested Towers]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

[Niko]

Agreed ^

Though keeping Student Demonstration Time in among all the other much subtler songs is interesting. I don't love the final version on the album, but I like the contrast between it and, for example, Disney Girls.

[Disney Boy (1985)]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

[filledeplage]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

People can argue all day, but SDT "charted" #10 in the Boston market, where there are a ton of colleges.

Another one, hit about #90, Til I Die. And, although, "taken as a whole" it is masterful, SDT was the ONLY single, that got any real airplay.  It was a harsh but necessary song, to be included.  Riots all over the US college campuses, for the war, race riots, demonstrations to end the war, and people need to read the history, contemporaneous to the release.  It was a reflection on American society, at the time.  Art and music generally do reflect society. 

[Disney Boy (1985)]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

People can argue all day, but SDT "charted" #10 in the Boston market, where there are a ton of colleges.

Another one, hit about #90, Til I Die. And, although, "taken as a whole" it is masterful, SDT was the ONLY single, that got any real airplay.  It was a harsh but necessary song, to be included.  Riots all over the US college campuses, for the war, race riots, demonstrations to end the war, and people need to read the history, contemporaneous to the release.  It was a reflection on American society, at the time.  Art and music generally do reflect society. 

Exactly. You've just completely proven my point. As a single, it was spot-on. As an album track, it was too of its time and we didn't need it.

Some bands entire catalogue hasn't aged well - we should be grateful that with the BB's, it's only a relatively small proportion of their output.

[filledeplage]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

People can argue all day, but SDT "charted" #10 in the Boston market, where there are a ton of colleges.

Another one, hit about #90, Til I Die. And, although, "taken as a whole" it is masterful, SDT was the ONLY single, that got any real airplay.  It was a harsh but necessary song, to be included.  Riots all over the US college campuses, for the war, race riots, demonstrations to end the war, and people need to read the history, contemporaneous to the release.  It was a reflection on American society, at the time.  Art and music generally do reflect society.  

Exactly. You've just completely proven my point. As a single, it was spot-on. As an album track, it was too of its time and we didn't need it.

Some bands entire catalogue hasn't aged well - we should be grateful that with the BB's, it's only a relatively small proportion of their output.

It is impossible to separate the two.  It was a consciousness-raising album. STD is harsh, but in the mix and gives the album some "punch." And, even retro Disney Girls -1957, it looks at a slice of society, both "as it is" (in the 1960's and early 1970's) and the retro Disney Girls to a more early Baby Boomer "coming of age." (Society as it was.)

People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up (the single, as featured on the Bernstein special, Inside Pop.)  On first listen, people didn't realize it was the Beach Boys on SDT, but for Mike's lead.  It was a departure of style and substance.  Later, in an interview, with just Brian, he chats about Lieber and Stoller.  It fits.  The LP was #15, in the UK, and #29 In the US, despite now being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time.  

They also forget the the Boys worked and toured with bands like Buffalo Springfield, (CSNY) and other anti-war music spokespersons as-it-were, and must have discussed these social implications and impact of music on politics, giving a voice to young people.  They are a very socially responsible band.  They were pioneers with clean water issues, ecology, etc. Most of these bands, were, including The Beatles, with Give Peace a Chance.

It could have been a double album.  Remember, it seems that Jack nixed a bunch of stuff, and this album is a classic, but did not hit a home run when released.  Critical acclaim is different from sales and airplay.  

[Disney Boy (1985)]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

People can argue all day, but SDT "charted" #10 in the Boston market, where there are a ton of colleges.

Another one, hit about #90, Til I Die. And, although, "taken as a whole" it is masterful, SDT was the ONLY single, that got any real airplay.  It was a harsh but necessary song, to be included.  Riots all over the US college campuses, for the war, race riots, demonstrations to end the war, and people need to read the history, contemporaneous to the release.  It was a reflection on American society, at the time.  Art and music generally do reflect society.  

Exactly. You've just completely proven my point. As a single, it was spot-on. As an album track, it was too of its time and we didn't need it.

Some bands entire catalogue hasn't aged well - we should be grateful that with the BB's, it's only a relatively small proportion of their output.

It is impossible to separate the two.  It was a consciousness-raising album. STD is harsh, but in the mix and gives the album some "punch." And, even retro Disney Girls -1957, it looks at a slice of society, both "as it is" (in the 1960's and early 1970's) and the retro Disney Girls to a more early Baby Boomer "coming of age." (Society as it was.)

People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up (the single, as featured on the Bernstein special, Inside Pop.)  On first listen, people didn't realize it was the Beach Boys on SDT, but for Mike's lead.  It was a departure of style and substance.  Later, in an interview, with just Brian, he chats about Lieber and Stoller.  It fits.  The LP was #15, in the UK, and #29 In the US, despite now being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time.  

They also forget the the Boys worked and toured with bands like Buffalo Springfield, (CSNY) and other anti-war music spokespersons as-it-were, and must have discussed these social implications and impact of music on politics, giving a voice to young people.  They are a very socially responsible band.  They were pioneers with clean water issues, ecology, etc. Most of these bands, were, including The Beatles, with Give Peace a Chance.

It could have been a double album.  Remember, it seems that Jack nixed a bunch of stuff, and this album is a classic, but did not hit a home run when released.  Critical acclaim is different from sales and airplay.  

Don't you mean 'as well as being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time'? 154 of all time is pretty impressive!

Yeah, I hear what you're saying but still my point stands: in hindsight, had SDT been a single only, it would've been perfect in pretty much every respect.

However, this I felt was just plain wrong: "People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up".

People hadn't been waiting 5 years for Surf's Up - if anything they'd entirely forgotten all about it and moved on. The wait for Smile ended in 1967, when it was officially announced it was scrapped. The appearance of Surf's Up in '71 was a pleasant surprise for music fans, and one which helped promote the album.

[filledeplage]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

People can argue all day, but SDT "charted" #10 in the Boston market, where there are a ton of colleges.

Another one, hit about #90, Til I Die. And, although, "taken as a whole" it is masterful, SDT was the ONLY single, that got any real airplay.  It was a harsh but necessary song, to be included.  Riots all over the US college campuses, for the war, race riots, demonstrations to end the war, and people need to read the history, contemporaneous to the release.  It was a reflection on American society, at the time.  Art and music generally do reflect society.  

Exactly. You've just completely proven my point. As a single, it was spot-on. As an album track, it was too of its time and we didn't need it.

Some bands entire catalogue hasn't aged well - we should be grateful that with the BB's, it's only a relatively small proportion of their output.

It is impossible to separate the two.  It was a consciousness-raising album. STD is harsh, but in the mix and gives the album some "punch." And, even retro Disney Girls -1957, it looks at a slice of society, both "as it is" (in the 1960's and early 1970's) and the retro Disney Girls to a more early Baby Boomer "coming of age." (Society as it was.)

People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up (the single, as featured on the Bernstein special, Inside Pop.)  On first listen, people didn't realize it was the Beach Boys on SDT, but for Mike's lead.  It was a departure of style and substance.  Later, in an interview, with just Brian, he chats about Lieber and Stoller.  It fits.  The LP was #15, in the UK, and #29 In the US, despite now being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time.  

They also forget the the Boys worked and toured with bands like Buffalo Springfield, (CSNY) and other anti-war music spokespersons as-it-were, and must have discussed these social implications and impact of music on politics, giving a voice to young people.  They are a very socially responsible band.  They were pioneers with clean water issues, ecology, etc. Most of these bands, were, including The Beatles, with Give Peace a Chance.

It could have been a double album.  Remember, it seems that Jack nixed a bunch of stuff, and this album is a classic, but did not hit a home run when released.  Critical acclaim is different from sales and airplay.  

Don't you mean 'as well as being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time'? 154 of all time is pretty impressive!
Yeah, I hear what you're saying but still my point stands: in hindsight, had SDT been a single only, it would've been perfect in pretty much every respect.
However, this I felt was just plain wrong: "People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up".
People hadn't been waiting 5 years for Surf's Up - if anything they'd entirely forgotten all about it and moved on. The wait for Smile ended in 1967, when it was officially announced it was scrapped. The appearance of Surf's Up in '71 was a pleasant surprise for music fans, and one which helped promote the album.

Nay-nay! We waited for SMiLE for 37 years!  And we waited for Surf's Up since we heard it in 1967, although recorded in 1966.  STD only charted in a "few" markets.  Boston was a huge college market.  In fact, David Marks was studying music at Berklee at the time.  It was "always coming" according to the Touring Band.  Boston was one of those fm-driven markets. You'd hear Beach Boys in Harvard Square boutiques.  A huge surprise, given the general and overall public perception. 

And, while it might have been "shelved" behind the corporate veil, not once, did I ever hear that pronounced.  In a lot of the LP's there are songs that reportedly don't "fit" such as Sloop John B on Pet Sounds.  But, as the listener "interprets" it, maybe they "find" a fit.  Music isn't much different from literary analysis.  The reader interprets what they think the author means. And, it is important to keep the lens the same, knowing what was going on in that era, I think. 

[Disney Boy (1985)]

The addition of WIBNTLA and 4th of July and exclusion of SDT and Feet would have made it an album of unparallelled depth and melancholia. A majestic, lovely, seamless, angst-infused masterpiece, if a little one-dimensional.

Agreed, minus the 'one-dimensional' comment.

I think they should've released SDT as a single only, a) to keep Mike happy, and b) because, as has been mentioned, while it may not have aged well, it did recieve a lot of radio exposure at the time.

Surf' Up (with 'Feet' staying in, simply to lighten the mood):

1. Don't Go Near the Water
2. Long Promised Road
3. Take A Load Off Your Feet
4. Disney Girls
5. 4th Of July

6. Feel Flows
7. Lookin' At Tomorrow
8. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
9. Til I Die
10. Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again

(extra couple of seconds pause to allow the stunning double-whammy of tracks 9 and 10 to sink in, and then...)

11. Surf's Up

So Dennis threw a tantrum and pulled his tracks from the album? Carl and Jack should have over-ruled him and included them anyway.

People can argue all day, but SDT "charted" #10 in the Boston market, where there are a ton of colleges.

Another one, hit about #90, Til I Die. And, although, "taken as a whole" it is masterful, SDT was the ONLY single, that got any real airplay.  It was a harsh but necessary song, to be included.  Riots all over the US college campuses, for the war, race riots, demonstrations to end the war, and people need to read the history, contemporaneous to the release.  It was a reflection on American society, at the time.  Art and music generally do reflect society.  

Exactly. You've just completely proven my point. As a single, it was spot-on. As an album track, it was too of its time and we didn't need it.

Some bands entire catalogue hasn't aged well - we should be grateful that with the BB's, it's only a relatively small proportion of their output.

It is impossible to separate the two.  It was a consciousness-raising album. STD is harsh, but in the mix and gives the album some "punch." And, even retro Disney Girls -1957, it looks at a slice of society, both "as it is" (in the 1960's and early 1970's) and the retro Disney Girls to a more early Baby Boomer "coming of age." (Society as it was.)

People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up (the single, as featured on the Bernstein special, Inside Pop.)  On first listen, people didn't realize it was the Beach Boys on SDT, but for Mike's lead.  It was a departure of style and substance.  Later, in an interview, with just Brian, he chats about Lieber and Stoller.  It fits.  The LP was #15, in the UK, and #29 In the US, despite now being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time.  

They also forget the the Boys worked and toured with bands like Buffalo Springfield, (CSNY) and other anti-war music spokespersons as-it-were, and must have discussed these social implications and impact of music on politics, giving a voice to young people.  They are a very socially responsible band.  They were pioneers with clean water issues, ecology, etc. Most of these bands, were, including The Beatles, with Give Peace a Chance.

It could have been a double album.  Remember, it seems that Jack nixed a bunch of stuff, and this album is a classic, but did not hit a home run when released.  Critical acclaim is different from sales and airplay.  

Don't you mean 'as well as being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time'? 154 of all time is pretty impressive!
Yeah, I hear what you're saying but still my point stands: in hindsight, had SDT been a single only, it would've been perfect in pretty much every respect.
However, this I felt was just plain wrong: "People have a short attention span. And they were weary of waiting for SMiLE. They were also weary of waiting five years, for Surf's Up".
People hadn't been waiting 5 years for Surf's Up - if anything they'd entirely forgotten all about it and moved on. The wait for Smile ended in 1967, when it was officially announced it was scrapped. The appearance of Surf's Up in '71 was a pleasant surprise for music fans, and one which helped promote the album.

Nay-nay! We waited for SMiLE for 37 years!  And we waited for Surf's Up since we heard it in 1967, although recorded in 1966.  STD only charted in a "few" markets.  Boston was a huge college market.  In fact, David Marks was studying music at Berklee at the time.  It was "always coming" according to the Touring Band.  Boston was one of those fm-driven markets. You'd hear Beach Boys in Harvard Square boutiques.  A huge surprise, given the general and overall public perception. 

And, while it might have been "shelved" behind the corporate veil, not once, did I ever hear that pronounced.  In a lot of the LP's there are songs that reportedly don't "fit" such as Sloop John B on Pet Sounds.  But, as the listener "interprets" it, maybe they "find" a fit.  Music isn't much different from literary analysis.  The reader interprets what they think the author means. And, it is important to keep the lens the same, knowing what was going on in that era, I think. 

You seem to be so completely misunderstanding everything I'm saying that I'm finding it hard to respond.

[filledeplage]

Disney Boy 1985 - here's how I explained SMiLE to my youngest son, when it was released (Brian's 2004 version) - he was the same age as I was when Smiley came out.  I said, "Imagine waiting all this time?" And he "got it."  For a Beach Boys album to be #29 in the US, was abysmal back then, even if NOW, it is regarded as #154.  It is sort of fixed in a generation, but it was extraordinary competition, in an extraordinarily musically rich time.  Otherwise, it is studying the work in a vacuum, if you just confine the music to the music, in isolation, without what "drove" or inspired the work, such as war, racial issues, ecology, and the human psyche.

The only analogy I can make is that for a long time, I studied French lit, mostly 19th century.  In order to do that, I had to learn stuff that went on, historically, such as the first workers' unions, and, what were the trends and wars going on at the time.  And, lucky for me, that is how the literature was taught, in an historical context, alongside all the painters, and musicians of that time. It is a package deal, as art and politics and music in a society all intersect.  And it did with our Boys.  

We can disagree, and that is fine...it is all good.  

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Disney Boy 1985 - here's how I explained SMiLE to my youngest son, when it was released (Brian's 2004 version) - he was the same age as I was when Smiley came out.  I said, "Imagine waiting all this time?" And he "got it."  For a Beach Boys album to be #29 in the US, was abysmal back then, even if NOW, it is regarded as #154.  It is sort of fixed in a generation, but it was extraordinary competition, in an extraordinarily musically rich time.  Otherwise, it is studying the work in a vacuum, if you just confine the music to the music, in isolation, without what "drove" or inspired the work, such as war, racial issues, ecology, and the human psyche.

The only analogy I can make is that for a long time, I studied French lit, mostly 19th century.  In order to do that, I had to learn stuff that went on, historically, such as the first workers' unions, and, what were the trends and wars going on at the time.  And, lucky for me, that is how the literature was taught, in an historical context, alongside all the painters, and musicians of that time. It is a package deal, as art and politics and music in a society all intersect.  And it did with our Boys.  

We can disagree, and that is fine...it is all good.  

No, #29 for a Beach Boys album in 1971 wasn't 'absymal' at all - in fact, given that their previous album had failed to make the top 150, charting at 29 was nothing short of miraculous. Top 30 after years of chart duds and playing to crowds of 200 people was an incredible turn-around.

As for telling your son about Smile and so forth, er... great, but what's that got to do with what we were talking about?? Your replies to my posts don't seem to bare any relation to whatever it is I've just being saying.

I said that, in hindsight, 'Surf's Up' would've been a better album minus SDT and that it would've been wise to release it as a single only, and you're talking about French literature and the human psyche.  

[Moon Dawg]

 Once again, I insist that the best SURF'S UP contains the original ten tracks plus WIBNTLA and either 4TH OF JULY or LADY. There you have it, the definitive 70's Beach Boys album. Yes, this SURF'S UP is among the top 3 Beach Boys' albums of all-time.

[bluesno1fann]

Once again, I insist that the best SURF'S UP contains the original ten tracks plus WIBNTLA and either 4TH OF JULY or LADY. There you have it, the definitive 70's Beach Boys album. Yes, this SURF'S UP is among the top 3 Beach Boys' albums of all-time.

Take off SDT and add WIBNTLA and both 4th Of July and Lady, and you've got a perfect album!

[filledeplage]

Disney Boy 1985 - here's how I explained SMiLE to my youngest son, when it was released (Brian's 2004 version) - he was the same age as I was when Smiley came out.  I said, "Imagine waiting all this time?" And he "got it."  For a Beach Boys album to be #29 in the US, was abysmal back then, even if NOW, it is regarded as #154.  It is sort of fixed in a generation, but it was extraordinary competition, in an extraordinarily musically rich time.  Otherwise, it is studying the work in a vacuum, if you just confine the music to the music, in isolation, without what "drove" or inspired the work, such as war, racial issues, ecology, and the human psyche.

The only analogy I can make is that for a long time, I studied French lit, mostly 19th century.  In order to do that, I had to learn stuff that went on, historically, such as the first workers' unions, and, what were the trends and wars going on at the time.  And, lucky for me, that is how the literature was taught, in an historical context, alongside all the painters, and musicians of that time. It is a package deal, as art and politics and music in a society all intersect.  And it did with our Boys.  
We can disagree, and that is fine...it is all good.  

No, #29 for a Beach Boys album in 1971 wasn't 'absymal' at all - in fact, given that their previous album had failed to make the top 150, charting at 29 was nothing short of miraculous. Top 30 after years of chart duds and playing to crowds of 200 people was an incredible turn-around.

As for telling your son about Smile and so forth, er... great, but what's that got to do with what we were talking about?? Your replies to my posts don't seem to bare any relation to whatever it is I've just being saying.

I said that, in hindsight, 'Surf's Up' would've been a better album minus SDT and that it would've been wise to release it as a single only, and you're talking about French literature and the human psyche.  

Disney Boy 1985 - #29 in the States, was awful for the Beach Boys. Sorry, if you don't agree with that. It was #15 in the UK, IIRC. Their work did better outside it the States because of the historic dynamic.  One can't create in a vacuum.  You need ideas, and some came from the campus riots, race riots and politics in general.  Brian seemed to addresss the personal reflectiveness of the human condition.  And, telling my son, gave him a context of how long the Smile project was unfinished/unreleased.  And in the meantime , The Boys had not disappeared into obscurity.  They kept touring. I think it kept them viable.

They didn't hide when times were rough, because the times had changed the dynamic. It wasn't an era of Fun, Fun, Fun. It was a time of aggressive campus police, locked down campuses, senseless killings and, just ugly under any standard. And, a war that the nation was sick of.  And exactly why SDT was an essential release.  The Boys took a stand. To  their fans in college, it was important. In 1971; it mattered.

Yes, some people woke up to the awesomeness of the work, but, not during the time it was released.  Yes, overall #154 in terms of the big 500, is great, but, not for 1971, when it mattered more, in terms of recognition and appreciation.  It was the fm station airplay, which slowly helped turn the tide. 

And, in terms of the 19th century French lit analogy, George Sand ( a woman writing under a man's name) connected to Chopin, Liszt, Marie D'Agout (another author) Balzac, Flaubert and others, corresponding, and meeting frequently.  It is not unlike the discussions seen on Bernstein's Inside Pop, were you can see Graham Nash, in the Hollies then, later in CSNY, discussing the impact of youth and music.  Janis Ian was writing at 15 about the social stigma of interracial dating. Society's Child.

These bands, did interact to a certain degree while touring, and certainly exchanged ideas.  The influence of Maharishi as between the Beatles and the Boys, shows that they discussed ideas, philosophy, perhaps world peace, and music. It isn't much different as between and among the various centuries.  JMHO   

[RangeRoverA1]

One of the best album covers of all-time btw.

I honestly can't get what's so good about the Surf's Up album cover. Everyone seems to like it, for some odd reason, when it's really nothing earth-shattering. Maybe I missed some fact about the cover that would reveal its good features? What I see is a guy with an arrow sitting at the horse leaning forward as if he's just about to fall out.

The LP was #15, in the UK, and #29 In the US, despite now being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time. 

Wiki is a wrong source for checking up these things. Except for Pet Sounds, only Sunflower & Today (2012 update) made it to the RS list. Unfortunately, as it's a really great album.

[filledeplage]

One of the best album covers of all-time btw.

I honestly can't get what's so good about the Surf's Up album cover. Everyone seems to like it, for some odd reason, when it's really nothing earth-shattering. Maybe I missed some fact about the cover that would reveal its good features? What I see is a guy with an arrow sitting at the horse leaning forward as if he's just about to fall out.

The LP was #15, in the UK, and #29 In the US, despite now being considered #154 of the 500 Rolling Stone ranked albums of all time. 

Wiki is a wrong source for checking up these things. Except for Pet Sounds, only Sunflower & Today (2012 update) made it to the RS list. Unfortunately, as it's a really great album.

First, thanks to RangeRoverA1 for catching that error.  My apologies to all for not digging beyond wiki.  Live and learn. 

The RS list has #2 - for Pet Sounds, #267, for BB Today, and #376 for Sunflower. Surf's Up isn't there. (Unless I missed it.)  My first thought is who would be motivated to, as a "contributor" go into wiki, link it to the RS site, and credit it as #154?  Who does that ?

The cover, though, Cyrus Dallin's Appeal to the Great Spirit is the logo of Brother Records.  The Surf's Up cover is the "End of The Trail" and also Native American theme, by James Earl Fraser.  I find the use a metaphor; as the Boys had been caught in a vortex of sorts, and were at a low point, but, neither dead, nor broken.  Still alive, battle-weary like the rider. At that point, it was not unlike the status our Boys. Under the radar but still chipping away and working, which ultimately paid off. 

Detention for me! 

[Disney Boy (1985)]

Disney Boy 1985 - here's how I explained SMiLE to my youngest son, when it was released (Brian's 2004 version) - he was the same age as I was when Smiley came out.  I said, "Imagine waiting all this time?" And he "got it."  For a Beach Boys album to be #29 in the US, was abysmal back then, even if NOW, it is regarded as #154.  It is sort of fixed in a generation, but it was extraordinary competition, in an extraordinarily musically rich time.  Otherwise, it is studying the work in a vacuum, if you just confine the music to the music, in isolation, without what "drove" or inspired the work, such as war, racial issues, ecology, and the human psyche.

The only analogy I can make is that for a long time, I studied French lit, mostly 19th century.  In order to do that, I had to learn stuff that went on, historically, such as the first workers' unions, and, what were the trends and wars going on at the time.  And, lucky for me, that is how the literature was taught, in an historical context, alongside all the painters, and musicians of that time. It is a package deal, as art and politics and music in a society all intersect.  And it did with our Boys.  
We can disagree, and that is fine...it is all good.  

No, #29 for a Beach Boys album in 1971 wasn't 'absymal' at all - in fact, given that their previous album had failed to make the top 150, charting at 29 was nothing short of miraculous. Top 30 after years of chart duds and playing to crowds of 200 people was an incredible turn-around.

As for telling your son about Smile and so forth, er... great, but what's that got to do with what we were talking about?? Your replies to my posts don't seem to bare any relation to whatever it is I've just being saying.

I said that, in hindsight, 'Surf's Up' would've been a better album minus SDT and that it would've been wise to release it as a single only, and you're talking about French literature and the human psyche.  

Disney Boy 1985 - #29 in the States, was awful for the Beach Boys. Sorry, if you don't agree with that. It was #15 in the UK, IIRC. Their work did better outside it the States because of the historic dynamic.  One can't create in a vacuum.  You need ideas, and some came from the campus riots, race riots and politics in general.  Brian seemed to addresss the personal reflectiveness of the human condition.  And, telling my son, gave him a context of how long the Smile project was unfinished/unreleased.  And in the meantime , The Boys had not disappeared into obscurity.  They kept touring. I think it kept them viable.

They didn't hide when times were rough, because the times had changed the dynamic. It wasn't an era of Fun, Fun, Fun. It was a time of aggressive campus police, locked down campuses, senseless killings and, just ugly under any standard. And, a war that the nation was sick of.  And exactly why SDT was an essential release.  The Boys took a stand. To  their fans in college, it was important. In 1971; it mattered.

Yes, some people woke up to the awesomeness of the work, but, not during the time it was released.  Yes, overall #154 in terms of the big 500, is great, but, not for 1971, when it mattered more, in terms of recognition and appreciation.  It was the fm station airplay, which slowly helped turn the tide.  

And, in terms of the 19th century French lit analogy, George Sand ( a woman writing under a man's name) connected to Chopin, Liszt, Marie D'Agout (another author) Balzac, Flaubert and others, corresponding, and meeting frequently.  It is not unlike the discussions seen on Bernstein's Inside Pop, were you can see Graham Nash, in the Hollies then, later in CSNY, discussing the impact of youth and music.  Janis Ian was writing at 15 about the social stigma of interracial dating. Society's Child.

These bands, did interact to a certain degree while touring, and certainly exchanged ideas.  The influence of Maharishi as between the Beatles and the Boys, shows that they discussed ideas, philosophy, perhaps world peace, and music. It isn't much different as between and among the various centuries.  JMHO  

I'm only going to respond to the first sentence of your reply, as the rest just seems to be extracts from a book you're writing - good luck with it!

Anyway: No, you're wrong, 29 wasn't an awful chart position for the Beach Boys in 1971. Had an album made 29 during their commercial mid-'60's heyday, then yes it would have been pretty awful - however, as you keep strangely ignoring, in 1971 they had just had several years of flop albums, some not even breaking into the top 100, and as such the respectable sales and Top 30 chart placing of Surf's Up was both a relief and a real accomplishment.