WIBNTLA Petition

[adamghost]

Maybe I'm wrong, it might have been 5 minutes.  Pretty sure it's not over 6, though.  Definitely not 7, though I generally defer to Boyd on this stuff.  And come to think of it, the one we worked off of was the mix they did for the DVD-A.  It's entirely possible that that itself was an edited version, and that there's a longer version in the vaults that I myself have not heard.

[adamghost]

Did you say we did it in Eb?  Because I have a vague recollection the original was also in a flat key.  I want to say C#, which would make sense, since it's a whole step down.  I don't think it was in a natural key.  Playing back my memory of Dennis' vocal vs. Evie's, I am almost sure it's a whole step down from where we did it, no more.  His vocal goes pretty high on the "I" of "I know I can cry" part, it was very Carl.  Singing it back to myself, I think it's up around a Bb.

[Dave Modny]

Maybe I'm wrong, it might have been 5 minutes.  Pretty sure it's not over 6, though.  Definitely not 7, though I generally defer to Boyd on this stuff.  And come to think of it, the one we worked off of was the mix they did for the DVD-A.  It's entirely possible that that itself was an edited version, and that there's a longer version in the vaults that I myself have not heard.

Thanks, Adam. FWIW, here's the original exchange with Alan and yourself (including the "7 minute" part by him), so your theory sounds correct.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=3562.15;wap2

[adamghost]

That explains it then.  I had an edit, and the original session runs longer.  When all else fails, trust Boyd. 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

The uncut mix is indeed quite long, with a lot of flute noodling.  It's about 7:30.  The WOTS release was going to be something like 4:40.

As for the key, it sort of depends on how you look at the song theoretically.  I would call it D-flat, but the first chord is the e-flat minor, which I would call the supertonic, or ii chord of the key.

In other words, Dennis's highest note is the high G-flat.

The guitar solo is indeed three notes over and over the whole sort of chorus progression.  The guitar is mixed quite low and in fact keeps playing during the following chorus, and it reflects a motive that pops up in the song intermittently.  One thing Adam's version doesn't reflect is all the little synth sounds and counter-melodies mixed in the track.  No criticism, Adam's version is great, but you can only have so many people up there playing little Moogy riffs.

[Dave Modny]

The uncut mix is indeed quite long, with a lot of flute noodling.  It's about 7:30.  The WOTS release was going to be something like 4:40.

As for the key, it sort of depends on how you look at the song theoretically.  I would call it D-flat, but the first chord is the e-flat minor, which I would call the supertonic, or ii chord of the key.

In other words, Dennis's highest note is the high G-flat.

The guitar solo is indeed three notes over and over the whole sort of chorus progression.  The guitar is mixed quite low and in fact keeps playing during the following chorus, and it reflects a motive that pops up in the song intermittently.  One thing Adam's version doesn't reflect is all the little synth sounds and counter-melodies mixed in the track.  No criticism, Adam's version is great, but you can only have so many people up there playing little Moogy riffs.

Fascinating. Amazing info. Thank you!

[SBonilla]

The uncut mix is indeed quite long, with a lot of flute noodling.  It's about 7:30.  The WOTS release was going to be something like 4:40.

As for the key, it sort of depends on how you look at the song theoretically.  I would call it D-flat, but the first chord is the e-flat minor, which I would call the supertonic, or ii chord of the key.

It's in the key of Eb. The first chord is Fmi7.

[pixletwin]

Interesting. Since the song is in Db, I am very excited to hear Dennis sing it. He really must have worked hard to sing it in that key.

[Don Malcolm]

Yes, terrific stuff, gents. Very informative material, thanks for posting.

Kudos to Adam, Evie and the entire crew for their wonderful cover version; we can all be grateful for that great moment of transference that caused Adam to add his supporting "Who ever said" vocals to the track--very inspired, and very moving.

Some day, some way, we'll have the original version. Keep the faith!!

[pixletwin]

It's in the key of Eb. The first chord is Fmi7.

You are referring to Adam's version right? Because that most certainly is in Eb with the Fmi7 opening chord. aeijtzsche was saying that the original version is in Db with an Ebmi7 opening chord.

[SBonilla]

It's in the key of Eb. The first chord is Fmi7.

You are referring to Adam's version right? Because that most certainly is in Eb with the Fmi7 opening chord. aeijtzsche was saying that the original version is in Db.

No. I'm referring to the 4:31 Beach Boys version. I haven't heard Adam's version.

[adamghost]

If ours is in Eb, then no it ain't.  We definitely transposed it.  4:31 sounds about right though.

[pixletwin]

I just checked. Adam's version is definitely in Eb.

[Sheriff John Stone]

However, in the realm of archive musical releases, it seems anyone can exercise a veto (e.g. Carl & Brian on the 1993 box over "SOMS" & "LHRW" restectively. Alan also blocked the inclusion of "Loop").

So my question is this: I recall it being stated back in, oh I don't know, 2003, 2004, thereabouts, that "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" was cleared for release on the DVD-A version of the Surf's Up album that never came out. That to me would indicate that at least for that release, the track DID pass through the BRI gauntlet and got the thumbs-up. Correct?

Assuming yes, then I wonder what was different about the Warmth of the Sun compilation. If the track had already been OK'd once before, I doubt that it would be vetoed later on aesthetic grounds, or due to jealousy, pride, etc. My first guess would be royalties. Someone wanted more $ from royalties by including one of their songs, plain and simple. Keep in mind this is all wild, irresponsible speculation here. Please do NOT quote me. TBH, I wouldn't put it past any of those voting members to do something lame-brained.

Again, consider the difference between a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased song as a bonus track for the album it was recorded for and a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased track on a greatest hits collection aside the likes of "Surfin' USA" or "Kokomo."

I'm not seeing $$$$$ as the total motivation for possibly voting against WIBNTLA. Call me naive, but if WIBNTLA would've appeared on the hits compilation, and another song was sacrificed, I don't think it (the compilation) would've sold one less unit because of the inclusion of WIBNTLA. On the other hand, if WIBNTLA would've made the cut, the compilation would've gotten a little more attention - a lot more among diehard fans - and the comp would've sold more units.

Again, what difference would've it made saleswise whether WIBNTLA was included or not. Consider, first, it was a hits comp, and second, there already was one obscure Dennis track on there. Maybe whoever just felt one non-hit track was enough for a comp that was to feature summer hits. We should be happy "Falling In Love" made it.

[SBonilla]

If ours is in Eb, then no it ain't.  We definitely transposed it.  4:31 sounds about right though.

You're right. When I was figuring out the chords, I did it on a guitar; it wasn't tuned to A440.

[SBonilla]

However, in the realm of archive musical releases, it seems anyone can exercise a veto (e.g. Carl & Brian on the 1993 box over "SOMS" & "LHRW" restectively. Alan also blocked the inclusion of "Loop").

So my question is this: I recall it being stated back in, oh I don't know, 2003, 2004, thereabouts, that "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" was cleared for release on the DVD-A version of the Surf's Up album that never came out. That to me would indicate that at least for that release, the track DID pass through the BRI gauntlet and got the thumbs-up. Correct?

Assuming yes, then I wonder what was different about the Warmth of the Sun compilation. If the track had already been OK'd once before, I doubt that it would be vetoed later on aesthetic grounds, or due to jealousy, pride, etc. My first guess would be royalties. Someone wanted more $ from royalties by including one of their songs, plain and simple. Keep in mind this is all wild, irresponsible speculation here. Please do NOT quote me. TBH, I wouldn't put it past any of those voting members to do something lame-brained.

Again, consider the difference between a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased song as a bonus track for the album it was recorded for and a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased track on a greatest hits collection aside the likes of "Surfin' USA" or "Kokomo."

I'm not seeing $$$$$ as the total motivation for possibly voting against WIBNTLA. Call me naive, but if WIBNTLA would've appeared on the hits compilation, and another song was sacrificed, I don't think it (the compilation) would've sold one less unit because of the inclusion of WIBNTLA. On the other hand, if WIBNTLA would've made the cut, the compilation would've gotten a little more attention - a lot more among diehard fans - and the comp would've sold more units.

Again, what difference would've it made saleswise whether WIBNTLA was included or not. Consider, first, it was a hits comp, and second, there already was one obscure Dennis track on there. Maybe whoever just felt one non-hit track was enough for a comp that was to feature summer hits. We should be happy "Falling In Love" made it.

I believe BRI assumed they had 100% of the song. When they found out they didn't, they may have been miffed or at least very surprised. My hunch has been that it had something to do with that.

[Jon Stebbins]

However, in the realm of archive musical releases, it seems anyone can exercise a veto (e.g. Carl & Brian on the 1993 box over "SOMS" & "LHRW" restectively. Alan also blocked the inclusion of "Loop").

So my question is this: I recall it being stated back in, oh I don't know, 2003, 2004, thereabouts, that "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" was cleared for release on the DVD-A version of the Surf's Up album that never came out. That to me would indicate that at least for that release, the track DID pass through the BRI gauntlet and got the thumbs-up. Correct?

Assuming yes, then I wonder what was different about the Warmth of the Sun compilation. If the track had already been OK'd once before, I doubt that it would be vetoed later on aesthetic grounds, or due to jealousy, pride, etc. My first guess would be royalties. Someone wanted more $ from royalties by including one of their songs, plain and simple. Keep in mind this is all wild, irresponsible speculation here. Please do NOT quote me. TBH, I wouldn't put it past any of those voting members to do something lame-brained.

Again, consider the difference between a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased song as a bonus track for the album it was recorded for and a lengthy, obscure non-Brian unreleased track on a greatest hits collection aside the likes of "Surfin' USA" or "Kokomo."

I'm not seeing $$$$$ as the total motivation for possibly voting against WIBNTLA. Call me naive, but if WIBNTLA would've appeared on the hits compilation, and another song was sacrificed, I don't think it (the compilation) would've sold one less unit because of the inclusion of WIBNTLA. On the other hand, if WIBNTLA would've made the cut, the compilation would've gotten a little more attention - a lot more among diehard fans - and the comp would've sold more units.

Again, what difference would've it made saleswise whether WIBNTLA was included or not. Consider, first, it was a hits comp, and second, there already was one obscure Dennis track on there. Maybe whoever just felt one non-hit track was enough for a comp that was to feature summer hits. We should be happy "Falling In Love" made it.

I think there is confusion here regarding Warmth of The Sun and Summer Love Songs..."Fallin In Love" was included on the latter, WIBNTLA was proposed and rejected for the former.

[tpesky]

If someone wanted another writing credit on WOTS ( I'm not saying that's the reason because I don't know but it's what a few have mentioned) why not just bump one of the covers then? Cal. Dreaming? Fools Fall In Love? ( which to me is the song that sticks out like a sore thumb on that album and on most setlists)

[Andrew G. Doe]

Again, what difference would've it made saleswise whether WIBNTLA was included or not. Consider, first, it was a hits comp...

Really ? You looked at the TWOTS track listing recently ?

    "All Summer Long" (Brian Wilson, Mike Love [1964]) - 2:09
    "Catch a Wave" (B. Wilson, Love [1963]) - 2:08
    "Hawaii" (B. Wilson, Love [1963]) - 2:00
    "Little Honda" (B. Wilson, Love [1964]) - 1:52
    "409" (B. Wilson, Gary Usher, Love [1962]) - 2:00
    "It's OK" (B. Wilson, Love [1976]) - 2:12
    "You're So Good to Me" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:15
    "Then I Kissed Her" (Jeff Barry, Ellie Greenwich, Phil Spector [1965]) - 2:16
    "Kiss Me, Baby" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:43
    "Please Let Me Wonder" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:50
    "Let Him Run Wild" (B. Wilson, Love [1965]) - 2:20
    "The Little Girl I Once Knew" (B. Wilson [1965]) - 2:34
    "Wendy" (B. Wilson, Love [1964]) - 2:20
    "Disney Girls (1957)" (Bruce Johnston [1971]) - 4:07
    "Forever" (Dennis Wilson, Gregg Jakobson [1970]) - 2:41
    "Friends" (B. Wilson, D. Wilson, Carl Wilson, Al Jardine [1968]) - 2:32
    "Break Away" (B. Wilson, Reggie Dunbar [1969]) - 3:05
    "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" (Morris Levy, Frankie Lymon [1964]) - 2:07
    "Surf's Up" (B. Wilson, Van Dyke Parks [1971]) - 4:12
    "Feel Flows" (C. Wilson, Jack Rieley [1971]) - 4:46
    "All This Is That" (C. Wilson, Love, Jardine [1972]) - 3:57
    "'Til I Die" (B. Wilson [1971]) - 2:40
    "Sail On, Sailor" (B. Wilson, Parks, Rieley, Ray Kennedy, Tandyn Almer [1973]) - 3:16
    "Cool, Cool Water" (B. Wilson, Love [1970]) - 3:24
    "Don't Go Near the Water" (Love, Jardine [1971]) - 2:39
    "California Saga (On My Way To Sunny Californ-i-a) (Jardine [1973]) - 3:22
    "California Dreamin''" (John Phillips, Michelle Phillips [1986]) - 3:24
    "The Warmth of the Sun" (B. Wilson, Love [1964]) - 2:50

28 tracks of which less than half were Top 100 hits.

[PongHit]

Great quote:

"When all else fails, trust Boyd."
—Adam

[runnersdialzero]

The uncut mix is indeed quite long, with a lot of flute noodling.  It's about 7:30.  The WOTS release was going to be something like 4:40.

So the chances of us hearing the full 7:30 version probably aren't that great

Srsly, if they're gonna release it after all this time and hype, they should do it right. Or, at the very least, give the amended, polished version on a compilation and save the 7:30 mix for a rarities box or whatever.

[Andrew G. Doe]

You wouldn't like the uncut version - too much faffing about to no discernable end: no focus. The 4.40 edit, OTOH, is majestic. Probably the single best still-unreleased tape in the vault.

[runnersdialzero]

You wouldn't like the uncut version - too much faffing about to no discernable end: no focus. The 4.40 edit, OTOH, is majestic. Probably the single best still-unreleased tape in the vault.

I figured someone who's heard it would say something similar. I'm sure you have a very fair point, and I'm sure the 4:40 edit is a lot more focused and effective (and would probably be the version I'd end up going back to more often), but it's also probably easy to say that having heard both versions or having access to both (not attackin' you, just sayin'). It'd just be nice to have both in circulation sooner or later, I guess. We're Beach Boys fans - if we can take hours and hours of session tapes and multiple takes on the Pet Sounds and Smile boxes, we can take 8 minutes of a Dennis track that contains a but of aimless noodling (that was seemingly actually meant for the song, anyway?)

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

You wouldn't like the uncut version - too much faffing about to no discernable end: no focus. The 4.40 edit, OTOH, is majestic. Probably the single best still-unreleased tape in the vault.

I figured someone who's heard it would say something similar. I'm sure you have a very fair point, and I'm sure the 4:40 edit is a lot more focused and effective (and would probably be the version I'd end up going back to more often), but it's also probably easy to say that having heard both versions or having access to both (not attackin' you, just sayin'). It'd just be nice to have both in circulation sooner or later, I guess. We're Beach Boys fans - if we can take hours and hours of session tapes and multiple takes on the Pet Sounds and Smile boxes, we can take 8 minutes of a Dennis track that contains a but of aimless noodling (that was seemingly actually meant for the song, anyway?)

The last two minutes is literally an intermittent bass guitar, plus two Charles Lloyds noodling to no discernible chord progression, and Dennis saying he wants the flutes turned down and that he wants to hear the keyboards.  I have in my notes here that he keeps asking to hear the "808s, the 808s" and the engineer apparently doesn't know what those are.

I mean, it's fun to hear, but there's not really any "banter" as such and certainly nothing musically of interest.

[runnersdialzero]

Ah, I didn't know it was mostly studio banter. Makes sense - I'd obviously like to hear it all ala the Pet Sounds box etc. (and the "808" part sounds mildly amusing), but I'm not expecting it for obvious reasons.