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Author Topic: Why didn't we get a new BBs album in 1974/early 1975?  (Read 5726 times)
Mr. Cohen
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« on: June 13, 2012, 10:19:54 AM »

I think 1974 was probably the biggest botched year by the BBs. Endless Summer came out in June and met with shocking success.  The band, clearly invigorated, step into the studio in October of that year. They work on songs like "Good Timin'", "California Feelin'", and "It's OK", all of which had strong single potential. If we look at what the band had recorded that year or had in the bag at the time, we can see the genesis of a great album shaping up: It's OK/Good Timin'/California Feelin'/Just An Imitation (apparently there was a session for it in the summer)/Holy Man/Rainbow/Had To Phone Ya (not recorded by the BBs yet, but it existed)/Ding Dang.

Did such a lineup not only have the potential to perform well commercially, but to wow critics at the same time? It was seemingly the perfect time for the BBs to strike a balance between their early image and later artistry, given the material they had available. That being said, Brian gets into some odd territory during the sessions, apparently finding "Battle Hymn of the Republic"  and "Child of Winter" the most interesting tracks to work on. And then the sessions simply fall apart, coming to an abrupt halt. Why?

I know part of the reason is that the Caribou studio they were recording at burned down, but supposedly the tapes (or copies of the tapes) survived? So, they could've just moved to a new studio.  

Was it possibly that Brian was too weird for the group, as he insisted they do take after take on his quirky version of "Battle Hymn"? Or did Brian disconnect for emotional reasons that perhaps had nothing to do with the sessions? It's all so strange and mysterious. The band seemingly had vindication within their grasp and then let it slip away.
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 11:38:49 AM »

I don't think the biggest botched year was 1974, not if we can use 1988 or even 1967 as comparison.  Keep in mind also that the music industry moved a lot slower in the '70's than the '60's.  The band DID come out with an album in 1976, and of course it sucked, but the reason 15 Big Ones sucked was because the songs were awful, not because it came out 2 years after Endless Summer.   However, you are correct that the Boys blew a huge opportunity.  If they had put out an album on par with Pet Sounds, Sunflower, or even Holland, it would have been a big deal for them.   And I don't think a 1976 release date (versus 1974/1975) would have made much difference, if any.
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 01:42:26 PM »

I think the reason is because BW wasn't up to it, and after 'Endless Summer', it became obvious that they needed him to approach past glories.
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 01:55:27 PM »

Mark's book has a great chapter on "Good Timin'" in which Jim Guerico describes how difficult/unproductive those late 74 Caribou sessions were. It paints a pretty vivid portrait of why a new album wasn't gonna happen there (lack of material, Brian heading to the airport every five minutes).
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 01:57:14 PM »

What's "Just an Imitation"?
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 01:59:24 PM »

Yeah, I can only imagine Brian was the biggest stumbling block - they were really trying to get him involved and he just is naffing off.
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 02:09:55 PM »

"Just an Imitation" is probably the most famous of Brian's early to mid-70s "Aesop's Fables"---songs Brian would write and play in his living room for friends, only to disappear into the void. Not much if anything is known about it, except it was supposedly about Murry.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 02:24:25 PM »

Quote
Mark's book has a great chapter on "Good Timin'" in which Jim Guerico describes how difficult/unproductive those late 74 Caribou sessions were. It paints a pretty vivid portrait of why a new album wasn't gonna happen there (lack of material, Brian heading to the airport every five minutes).

I don't think the band really had a lack of material, though. Besides those 8 songs I mentioned, they had plenty of other unreleased songs they could go to if they had to: "Santa Ana Winds", "Burlesque", "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again?", and etc. They were just unwilling to work on those songs for various weird reasons.
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 02:50:24 PM »

they had some dandy Add Some Music sessions music they coulda drawn upon. Dennis had a number of songs from the 1969-1974 period which coulda been used. As Jack Reilly has said: They blew it again. They coulda done a BB version of Sweet Mountain, they coulda done some oldies, they coulda done many things, but they blew it.
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 06:43:20 PM »

I can understand why the 1974/75 sessions were a mess due to Brian's condition, but I never understood why the group was so adamant about making it a "Brian" album in the first place. Has that ever been explained in depth in an interview?

They were going along, making albums like Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, and Holland, using two good Brian songs and filling in the rest with group compositions. Why couldn't they use "Good Timin", "It's OK", and "California Feelin", and build an album around those? Just using those three tunes as a start, it could've had a Beach Boy-like vibe to compliment Endless Summer/Spirit Of America.
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 07:12:01 PM »

I'd love to see an album in between 74 and 75, Some stuff on 15 Big Ones was pretty good btw.
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 07:15:33 PM »

I don't see what's so GREAT about Good Timin'.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 09:40:39 PM »

I don't see what's so GREAT about Good Timin'.

"Good Timin" isn't a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but it comes the closest to sounding like their early material, a lot of which was featured on Endless Summer. Following up the compilation with any album which had "Good Timin" as a lead single, basically a late-70s update of "Surfer Girl" (musically, if not lyrically), might have worked.
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 11:26:52 PM »

I can understand why the 1974/75 sessions were a mess due to Brian's condition, but I never understood why the group was so adamant about making it a "Brian" album in the first place. Has that ever been explained in depth in an interview?

They were going along, making albums like Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, and Holland, using two good Brian songs and filling in the rest with group compositions. Why couldn't they use "Good Timin", "It's OK", and "California Feelin", and build an album around those? Just using those three tunes as a start, it could've had a Beach Boy-like vibe to compliment Endless Summer/Spirit Of America.

After "Endless Summer" selling squillions it could have been record company pressure to have a new Brian Wilson written/produced album. I don't think Warner Bros ever had much faith in a relatively Brian free Beach Boys.
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 12:55:13 AM »

Had an album been released incorporating dennis' material we then may not have had POB, so maybe in hindsight it's no bad thing an album was never completed.

Having said that, this would've been a killer album (assuming Just An Imitation isn't crap):

1. River Song
2. Good Timin'
3. It's OK
4. Lady
5. California Feelin'

6. Santa Ana Winds
7. Rainbows (Carl singing lead?)
8. Just An Imitation
9. Holy Man
10. Ding Dang/Rollin' Up To Heaven
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2012, 01:08:22 AM »

I don't see what's so GREAT about Good Timin'.

The vocal arrangement is. Personally, I only realized how good a song it is when they played it "unplugged" during the first sets of the 2004 SMiLE concerts. The studio version doesn't do the song justice with a sub-par backing track.
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2012, 06:33:08 AM »

I think 1974 was probably the biggest botched year by the BBs. Endless Summer came out in June and met with shocking success.  The band, clearly invigorated, step into the studio in October of that year. They work on songs like "Good Timin'", "California Feelin'", and "It's OK", all of which had strong single potential. If we look at what the band had recorded that year or had in the bag at the time, we can see the genesis of a great album shaping up: It's OK/Good Timin'/California Feelin'/Just An Imitation (apparently there was a session for it in the summer)/Holy Man/Rainbow/Had To Phone Ya (not recorded by the BBs yet, but it existed)/Ding Dang.

Did such a lineup not only have the potential to perform well commercially, but to wow critics at the same time? It was seemingly the perfect time for the BBs to strike a balance between their early image and later artistry, given the material they had available. That being said, Brian gets into some odd territory during the sessions, apparently finding "Battle Hymn of the Republic"  and "Child of Winter" the most interesting tracks to work on. And then the sessions simply fall apart, coming to an abrupt halt. Why?

I know part of the reason is that the Caribou studio they were recording at burned down, but supposedly the tapes (or copies of the tapes) survived? So, they could've just moved to a new studio.  

Was it possibly that Brian was too weird for the group, as he insisted they do take after take on his quirky version of "Battle Hymn"? Or did Brian disconnect for emotional reasons that perhaps had nothing to do with the sessions? It's all so strange and mysterious. The band seemingly had vindication within their grasp and then let it slip away.

One problem Dada here is that art, music and literature are inextricably tied to the political and social climate at the time.  The States had just "cleaned house.". The White House!"

People were reeling on the heels of pulling the troops from Vietnam, impeaching a President and Vice President.  It is all about "Good Timing" - pun intended.  When the compilation came out, the vision was towards celebrating 1976 - the Bicentennial of the United States and who better could "represent?" The Beach Boys.  The baby boomers were coming of age, in their 20's, and in the middle of the new American Market Share, looking ahead, for a better future and a little in the rear view mirror, in a nostalgic sense. 

That bicentennial behind, found a better time, to begin again. Strangely, disco and the Bee Gees and "sweathog" John Travolta (sitcom Welcome Back, Kotter) and film and music seemed to intersect again. 

Isolation of music is impossible, without societal "context" and even the new album, the harmony construct might be 60-ish classic but the themes are more mature.   Wink
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2012, 10:00:16 AM »

Brian wasn't up to it. He did have a brief spurt of writing and recording but even compared to Holland he was in much worse shape though not near bottom yet sadly. Maybe with Ricky, Blondie, and Bruce gone the others didn't feel they could do a whole album without Brian? Maybe in light of Endless Summer Brian's profile was too high and they felt an LP like So Tough or Holland wasn't going to fly. It's sad because Good Timin, Child Of Winter, and even Rolling Up To Heaven are fun and vocally strong (even just the backups cut for the former) in a way we rarely heard again. California Feeling 1974 sounds awesome too from what I have been told and Dennis surely would have come up with a few great things even if his voice was starting to cut out by late 1974. Mike's interview about the sessions makes the stuff he, Al, Carl were writing sound nicely progressive too. They just couldn't get it together at the time.
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2012, 12:04:11 PM »

Shame these sessions didn't work out because Brian really went off the deep end during 1975.
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2012, 12:15:11 PM »

Like some others have suggested, maybe they were in the throes of an identity crisi in the wake of Endless Summer's smashing success. They had spent the last five years quite successfully distancing themselves from their early pop surf and cars image and then their greatest success comes as a direct result of it. It's not hard to imagine that they had no idea what direction they should go in next and they became worried about making the wrong decision which froze them into inaction. Eventually they chose the Endless Summer path that resulted in 15 Big Ones and continues to this day.
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 12:28:35 PM »

Like some others have suggested, maybe they were in the throes of an identity crisi in the wake of Endless Summer's smashing success. They had spent the last five years quite successfully distancing themselves from their early pop surf and cars image and then their greatest success comes as a direct result of it. It's not hard to imagine that they had no idea what direction they should go in next and they became worried about making the wrong decision which froze them into inaction. Eventually they chose the Endless Summer path that resulted in 15 Big Ones and continues to this day.

To be fair, 15 Big Ones worked out for them pretty well commercially. I suspect that's what fans of Endless Summer were looking for at the time.

As for the Endless Summer path continuing to this day, if the Boys were still trying to pull off their 70s sound, it would come across more dated than their current sound. The current era of pop music is all about kitsch and songs like Spring Vacation or Isn't It Time fit better than say, Sail On Sailor or Marcella.
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2012, 02:51:16 PM »

I don't see what's so GREAT about Good Timin'.

I didn't like it until I heard it live. Now I love it lol.
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Jim V.
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2012, 07:18:30 PM »

To be fair, 15 Big Ones worked out for them pretty well commercially. I suspect that's what fans of Endless Summer were looking for at the time.

At best, I'd say it worked out decently. The album went top ten, and they had two hit singles ("Rock And Roll Music", "It's OK"), but as far as the long term, I think many people who didn't buy future Beach Boys albums were helped in that decision by 15 Big Ones.

Personally, I don't think the band should've pushed Brian back up front. They should've taken what he gave them and used it, just as they had done in the early '70s. They had "Good Timin'" and "It's OK" pretty far along, so use those two songs. And if they could've worked up a studio arrangement for "California Feelin'", they coulda used that too. Therefore, I think they should've done something like L.A. (Light Album) as a follow up to Holland than 15 Big Ones. For instance, here is a rough track list, using what we know was around by late '75/early '76, and following the L.A. (Light Album) template somewhat:

"Good Timin'" (B. Wilson, C. Wilson)
"Susie Cincinnati" (A. Jardine)
"Angel Come Home" (C. Wilson, G. Cushing-Murray)
"Pacific Ocean Blue" (D. Wilson, M. Love)
"It's OK" (B. Wilson, M. Love)
"Everyone's In Love With You" (M. Love)
"Rainbows" (D. Wilson, C. Wilson, S. Kalinich)
"Had to Phone Ya" (B. Wilson, M. Love)
"River Song" (D. Wilson, C. Wilson)
"California Feelin'" (B. Wilson, S. Kalinich)

That would be a ten track album, representing the writing skills of all the guys in a generally artistic manner, and it would still be quite poppy and recognizable to those came on board via Endless Summer. The singles would be "It's OK" first, in time for summer, followed by "Good Timin'", and I wouldn't doubt both would do well, seeing as how, well, in real life, both did quite decently.

As for the Endless Summer path continuing to this day, if the Boys were still trying to pull off their 70s sound, it would come across more dated than their current sound. The current era of pop music is all about kitsch and songs like Spring Vacation or Isn't It Time fit better than say, Sail On Sailor or Marcella.

I think you are kinda missing the point. It's not that the guys should've kept on doing their same style as the early '70s, it was the fact that they seemed to lose creative steam when they came back with 15 Big Ones. That album seems like it was by a bunch of washed up lame-o's. But the facts are, Brian cranked out a classic in Love You soon after, and the rest of the band proved they could still be an artistic entity, via L.A. (Light Album). Unfortunately, the group seemed to stray from that artistic mindset until last year when they decided to release The SMiLE Sessions and followed it up with That's Why God Made The Radio, which is easily their best, and most artistically valid work, since L.A. (Light Album).
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2012, 07:55:05 PM »

"Just An Imitation" sure has an interesting story behind it, but I'm not sure how one can include it in a list of songs they'd consider a credit to such an album without ever hearing it. Maybe you'd think it totally suxxx ;( They definitely could have put something really nice together around this time, though. They probably could have even pulled off one more "classic" Beach Boys album.

As for "Good Timin'", it's not "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" great or anything, but still pretty nice. A wall of Carls? Carl's best falsetto performance? Yes plz.
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2012, 08:02:49 PM »

I don't see why there's no love for Rock and Roll Music. Okay, maybe the album version is comparatively sterile, but the single version kicks.
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