Jeffrey Foskett - what's the joke?

[donald]

Jeff has always been cordial to me over the years.  Over many years.  That says something about someone's consistency in dealing with fans in a good way.
Also, if he wasn't reliable as a "supporter" with BW, would he still be in that role after all of these years?  His singing?  He manages to fit into almost any conceivable mix of BB personnel that he is thrown into and manages to help whip the vocal blend into a presentable entity.  He seemed to have his hands full last time I saw him at the early US Gershwin shows without Taylor.  Brian needed some support there and Jeff was on the ball.

So, Jeffrey is OK by me.  Always has been.

[Lonely Summer]

First time I ever saw/heard Foskett was the Beach Boys concert after a Seattle Mariners game in 1983. Was impressed with his vocals on The Warmth of the Sun. That was a highlight of the show for me. Never had any problems with his vocals on the various recording projects he's contributed to (Overwhelming World Suite on America's Human Nature album from '98 stands out for me). I admit I was disappointed sometimes at Beach Boys concerts that he would do the guitar solos on some songs, I wanted to hear Carl do them ALL. But apparently Carl did not mind sharing the spotlight with Jeff. Beach Boys/Brian fans are such a hard-to-please group. There's always a bunch of "fans" criticizing every move, whether it be a new (or old) album, a setlist, Mike's wardrobe...whatever. Sometimes it seems as if these guys can never do right by us.

[runnersdialzero]

First time I ever saw/heard Foskett was the Beach Boys concert after a Seattle Mariners game in 1983. Was impressed with his vocals on The Warmth of the Sun. That was a highlight of the show for me. Never had any problems with his vocals on the various recording projects he's contributed to (Overwhelming World Suite on America's Human Nature album from '98 stands out for me). I admit I was disappointed sometimes at Beach Boys concerts that he would do the guitar solos on some songs, I wanted to hear Carl do them ALL. But apparently Carl did not mind sharing the spotlight with Jeff. Beach Boys/Brian fans are such a hard-to-please group. There's always a bunch of "fans" criticizing every move, whether it be a new (or old) album, a setlist, Mike's wardrobe...whatever. Sometimes it seems as if these guys can never do right by us.

Complaining always comes from an irrational place.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Who are these "haters"? Seems to me everyone one this thread seems to be directing their venom against some non-existent sub-section on this board. There are those who voiced an entirely valid concern that Jeff was the only voice that could be heard on the two live appearances. Then there were those such as myself who recounted a genuine tale of something Jeff did which really turned them off the guy. Read back on my post please. You'll find no hate. I took what everyone said on board, and softened my opinion soemwhat.

But I still don't like the guy, based on personal experiences. I don't have to explain or defend this. Likewise you don't have to explain or defend why you like him. Good, I'm glad for you / him. I think what a lot of you have to learn to cope with however, is there are minority opinions on here. Not sure why that is so threatening.

For me this discussion ended long ago, and amicably. It's all you "likers" that are keeping it going.

I have my opinion, and as the Americans amongst us are fond of saying - Deal with it.

  Let's just be happy about the reunion eh, or not.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think the envy for Jeff has a very simple basis - he's where a lot of BB/BW fans are where they think they want to be.

[hypehat]

There was a lot of whining going on in the tour/dodgers thread. But I wouldn't classify you as a bitchy Foskett-hater at all, IHA.

Sometimes I think that stupid joke thread I started is making people think I hate Foskett and am contributing to all this bitchiness... 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I think the envy for Jeff has a very simple basis - he's where a lot of BB/BW fans are where they think they want to be.

I'm not envious of Jeff. The backbiting nature of the BW camp is the last place I'd want to be, believe me!  

His rudeness to Brian I've thought about, and as I say softened my opinion.

However I met him, stuck my hand out, he snubbed me. Anyone who does that to me, I have no time for.

But as I say, if you've all had positive experiences with him, then good for you. All it proves is he's a normal human being.

But so am I, and if someone makes a point of being rude and trying to belittle me, then I'm not really going to like them am I?

And I'm happy to let it go and not mention it again!

There was a lot of whining going on in the tour/dodgers thread. But I wouldn't classify you as a bitchy Foskett-hater at all, IHA.

Sometimes I think that stupid joke thread I started is making people think I hate Foskett and am contributing to all this bitchiness... 

It was your Hitler pasteover moment?

It's OK,  we know you luuurve Fosky really and want to kiss his bald spot.

[37!ws]

My thoughts on Jeff in general...

On one hand, I've heard some pretty personally damning stuff about Jeff -- most of which he's publicly admitted to -- but overall...

1) I'll say the guy's got a really good voice, including the high notes....and sometimes vocally he's a dead ringer for Carl (esp. "Child Is Father Of The Man"), which is no surprise given how much the guy always looked up to Carl. Having said THAT, though, I do prefer Matt Jardine's high vocals.

2) Musical talent....he's a good musician for sure. Needs to work on some original material though, as evidenced by Thru My Window and his Christmas album. When he really puts some effort into his originals, though, he's a really solid songwriter, as evidenced by a lot of the material on Twelve And Twelve.

3) In terms of interaction...I've met Jeff several times (so many that he easily recognizes the Mrs. and me, possibly even by name -- about ten years ago he made an off-the-record comment to me about something I posted on the Psycho British UK Fan Board...uhh, sorry, I mean "blue" board), and each time he's been very gracious...including literally spotting the Mrs. and me in front of the stage at a show last year during "All Summer Long", and during the instrumental break he walked over, bent down, shook hands with the two of us and said "Good to see you!" Many of our friends have had similar interactions. My thought is that anybody who's been treated kind of douchily by Jeff must have been giving it to him first or coming on too strong. I saw this happen after a show once, an unusually late show...and they were all exhausted, especially Jeff. One fan practically pounced on Jeff and nearly demanded autographs on some things -- including an obscure Foskett single that this fan described as "Little Deuce Coupe but sideways" -- meanwhile Jeff was practically dragging himself to the hotel that was next-door to the venue. This fan would NOT leave the poor guy alone..."Can you autograph this for me?" "Can you get Brian to autograph that for me?" and this was after Jeff did stop and talk very briefly and very politely explained that he and the rest of the band -- especially Brian -- were terribly exhausted, they weren't used to playing such a late show, they really needed to rest up before going back on the road, but if anybody was going to the about-to-happen Carl Wilson Walk (this was when the Carl Walk people actually gave a $#!t about fans) he and the other guys would be happy to sign things for them. But no, this guy had to keep harrassing Jeff, who as he was practically crawling to the hotel, just kept exhaustedly and robotically replying, "Go to the Carl Walk." So yeah, if you do THAT to Jeff -- or ANYBODY, for that matter -- you're not going to be welcome with open arms!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

My thought is that anybody who's been treated kind of douchily by Jeff must have been giving it to him first or coming on too strong.

No. Not saying this to keep it going, just in my defence. I was introduced to him, I smiled, put my hand out, he looked me up and down and turned away to talk to someone else.
How is that coming on too strong?

[AndrewHickey]

Sometimes I think that stupid joke thread I started is making people think I hate Foskett and am contributing to all this bitchiness... 

No, very far from it. It's one of the funniest things I've seen in months, and certainly to me it seemed the best possible reaction to all the inexplicable hatred for Foskett that's been all over this board recently. And I do think it's inexplicable -- his vocals, and place in the vocal mix, are no different than they have been on all the Brian tours and albums we've had in the last thirteen years, and pretty much nobody has complained about him then...

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'm really getting fed up with this now. I give a very good personal reason why I don't like him, yet at the same time show understanding that other folk may feel differently, and I'm accused of inexplicable hatred. He was probably just having a bad day, or maybe I reminded him of someone or thought I was someone else. I can't be more reasonable than that.

Why don't we end this thread with the unique idea of agreeing to differ?

[I. Spaceman]

I know a few people who have been treated that way by Foskett on different occasions. He is an overbearing pig. Sorry, but that's the truth. He may as well be a replacement Murry. Brian probably needs someone like that to order him around.

[Mikie]

Jeff Foskett is from my neck of the woods.  Went to school here, played in bands around here, became a born again Christian here, and still lives here.

A few months ago I was at Amoeba Records in S.F. where Brian was signing copies of the new Smile release. When it was my turn in line, the girlfriend and I walked up and stood in front of the autograph table where Brian was signing. Brian wasn't looking up - the line had to move fast and stuff was being taken by a store employee and shoveled in front of him to sign.  Foskett was leaning against the wall behind Brian, watching the proceedings. He looked at my girlfriend (she was wearing a dark blue SMiLE shirt) and said loudly, "Nice shirt!". She said, "Thank you!" I said, "How ya doin', Jeff?" He replied with a big smile, "Great, how are you doin'?" Only then did Brian look up and smile at my girlfriend after seeing her shirt. I shook his hand. If it weren't for the exchange with Jeff, I don't think Brian would have bothered to acknowledge us, as he didn't with most of the people getting stuff signed that night.

Then I'm reading all the personal crap against Jeff here and I'm thinking, "Have you guys ever met Jeff before?? Do you even know the guy?"  I doubt it.

[Mikie]

He is an overbearing pig. Sorry, but that's the truth.

And I. Spacecase, you're an effing idiot who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about!  

[SMiLE Brian]

Can we come to a compromise that Jeff is human, cool at sometimes and not at other times.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Can we come to a compromise that Jeff is human, cool at sometimes and not at other times.

Absolutely. That's what I've been saying all along. I'm a bit defensive here because I don't like being labelled a "hater". I don't hate anyone.

Maybe we could wind this thread up and move on from the Jeff thing, eh?

[endofposts]

Jeff does interact with the audience at shows and tries his best to put on a good performance and seems to be having a good time up there, so that is a positive about him.  He's not one of those band members off in his own little world.  He seemed very happy to be performing Smile in a symphony hall near where he grew up (Davies Hall in SF), with all family present (he mentioned it), and it was right after he had gastric bypass surgery, so he looked amazingly fit.  I was sitting in the second row, right under where he was on stage.  At one point, our eyes met and he smiled at me and winked.

I will forever treasure my wink from Jeff Foskett.  It was special.  

[punkinhead]

What about rumors I've heard about Jeff and Carl's wife?

[endofposts]

What about rumors I've heard about Jeff and Carl's wife?

What about the rumors about him and something he did in 1989 while with the Beach Boys that they were upset about?  Was that what it was?  Not to spread rumors.  But I did kind of got the idea that Jeff has an eye out for the ladies because he was winking and nodding at a few of them in the front rows at that Smile show.  Harmless, I'm sure, but you know how guys go into music to get chicks.  I'm sure he's at least a big flirt and that can lead to trouble sometimes.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think the envy for Jeff has a very simple basis - he's where a lot of BB/BW fans are where they think they want to be.

I certainly don't want to be out there in the middle of a baseball field supposedly singing with the Beach Boys and being the only one audible in the mix! I find it an outright hideous and humiliating idea!

[Mikie]

I never heard about Carl's wife. I did hear about Jeff's marital indescretion, and I heard that pissed off some Beach Boys wives and the band took action. I think he was gone soon after that. He profusely apologized for it, and that's what led to him becoming a Christian, I think.

[Mikie]

Jeff does interact with the audience at shows and tries his best to put on a good performance and seems to be having a good time up there, so that is a positive about him.  He's not one of those band members off in his own little world.  He seemed very happy to be performing Smile in a symphony hall near where he grew up (Davies Hall in SF), with all family present (he mentioned it), and it was right after he had gastric bypass surgery, so he looked amazingly fit.  I was sitting in the second row, right under where he was on stage.  At one point, our eyes met and he smiled at me and winked.

I will forever treasure my wink from Jeff Foskett.  It was special.  

I was in back of you in the audience at Davies Symphony Hall.  I saw him wink at you and got jealous.

Saw Frank Holmes that night and said hello.  Also met David Anderle. People were crowded around Anderle listening closely to everything he said, like he was divulging all the secrets of SMiLE.

[endofposts]

Jeff does interact with the audience at shows and tries his best to put on a good performance and seems to be having a good time up there, so that is a positive about him.  He's not one of those band members off in his own little world.  He seemed very happy to be performing Smile in a symphony hall near where he grew up (Davies Hall in SF), with all family present (he mentioned it), and it was right after he had gastric bypass surgery, so he looked amazingly fit.  I was sitting in the second row, right under where he was on stage.  At one point, our eyes met and he smiled at me and winked.

I will forever treasure my wink from Jeff Foskett.  It was special.  

I was in back of you in the audience at Davies Symphony Hall.  I saw him wink at you and got jealous.

Saw Frank Holmes that night and said hello.  Also met David Anderle. People were crowded around Anderle listening closely to everything he said, like he was divulging all the secrets of SMiLE.

Cool.  I think Jeff winked at a few people. He seemed to really be feeling his Cheerios that evening.  He was about half the size he was the last time he was on a Brian tour and I'm sure he was proud of that.

[runnersdialzero]

Been making posts like this and deleting them several times over the past few weeks, but the endless painting of folks who dislike what Jeff's doing as irrational whiners isn't fair, at least in most cases.

My biggest problems with Jeff basically begin and ends with his voice being overbearing, him singing everything like he's the lead singer, and his voice always dominating whatever performance he's a part of - I'm not just talking about the two recent performances and now, unfortunately, the single. This has been going on for a while. The doubling Brian thing was first noticed by me on a couple spots on the Smile record where I could just tell something was off, these vocals weren't as good as the others. I'll add that him even accepting orders to double Brian is disgusting in and of itself.

The dominating, by means of being overbearing or by just being way too high in the mix, was noticed around then, too. And then it was realized that this was Mr.Smile-guitar-oh-yeah-baby who was behind all this. That was the moment that Jeff started to irk me.

I'm puzzled as to how people can say he's a "dead ringer" for Carl, one of the greatest rock vocalists of all time, or Brian, who was up there with Carl. To my ears, the guy's voice sounds too bloated, too hoarse, too overbearing. Part of this is clearly his decision, and that's why I take issue.

I would not want Jeff's role for the same reason Iron-Horse Apples stated. No thanks. That's not in me.

The "fixing Brian's collar and telling him he can't have his eyes closed for more than two seconds" thing was sad to see, but it came after. The born-again Christian thing was amusing, but I don't care about that, and it came after. Him disliking Love You and likely being the reason none of those songs are played live was extremely disappointing, but it came after. The solo records that sound like bad Sunrays knockoffs thing was further icing on the cake, but again, it came after.

The issue begins and ends with him dominating and ruining performances for me, the other stuff doesn't really factor into that. Again, I hate to be so critical, I hate being negative, I just wish he'd take it down a level as far as singing everything he does like he's the lead vocalist and wish he'd not agree to double the folks who are basically the reason anyone knows his name. It's backhanded to those people and it's backhanded to the fans. I want to hear The Beach Boys, be they 20 or 70 years old, aged and compromised or not. I want to hear them, I don't want to hear them doubled by someone else who has been deemed or deems himself a superior singer who needs to "save" them from sounding iffy. I don't want to hear a touring member's vocals over everyone else's. There's augmenting with additional vocalists because the original composition has more vocal parts than people on stage, as they've done since the 70s, and then there's what Jeff does. There's a world of difference. I want to hear Brian singing on a Brian Wilson album/show and I want to hear the Beach Boys singing at a Beach Boys show or on a Beach Boys record. I don't think that's the least bit irrational.

Sorry. :\

[NatureShowInStereo]

We need a YouTube video of someone pettily trying to mess with Brian when all of a sudden, Jeff comes rushing into the frame in "bouncer" mode and gives them a royal beat down. Falsetto and all.