Combining "Sunflower"/"Surf's Up" into a masterpiece

[runnersdialzero]

Sunflower and Surf's Up have been combined into a masterpiece on the twofer. One of the best £5 I ever spent 

^_^ was waiting for this post.

[rogerlancelot]

Sunflower and Surf's Up have been combined into a masterpiece on the twofer. One of the best £5 I ever spent 

^_^ was waiting for this post.

Me too! Wasn't it obvious?

[I. Spaceman]

Christ Jesus, you couldn't just leave this post over on Hoffman and be done with it?

I'll put it like this to you:  Sunflower and Surf's Up are both masterpieces.  If you don't get that, then it is probable you are listening with "dead ears, mate", as Russell Crowe would say.

Are you aware how many songs the group cut just from Sunflower just to narrow it down to what it was released as?  You're coming in here firing on a band that was operating nearly at the height of their powers, and saying you know better than them what songs should have appeared and whatnot.

Look I don't mean to be harsh, but it's supremely lazy to quote a couple of Wiki links and then post your own special little track line-up of whatever albums you just know you could have sequenced better than the band and their label.  No one is going to agree with your choices anyway, so why bother?

Yikes.   Posts like are why a lot people just lurk on message boards and never post.

Penick knows what he is talking about. Maybe more people should be lurking.

To be fair, there are a few definitions of "masterpiece" but I think if the term itself is going to have any real meaning, the very notion of a band having two masterpieces is an oxymoron.

The singularity of the term is just one definition.

mas·ter·piece  (mstr-ps)
n.
1. An outstanding work of art or craft.
2. The greatest work, as of an artist. Also called masterwork.
3. Something superlative of its kind: a masterpiece of political ingenuity.

But yeah, if I had to choose one Beach Boys "masterpiece", it wouldn't be either of those records.

[Mr. Cohen]

Grass, Flowers, Sun and Storms

Side 1:

1. Take a Load Off Your Feet
2. Our Sweet Love
3. At My Window
4. Add Some Music
5. This Whole World
6. Cool, Cool Water (single version)
7. Carnival
8. Take a Load Off Your Feet (reprise)

Side 2:

1. Til I Die
2. Long Promised Road
3. Forever
4. Disney Girls
5. A Day in The Life of A Tree
6. Smog Rant
7. Don't Go Near the Water

[Dunderhead]

If I had to trim anything from SUNFLOWER it would be "At My Window" or "Tears In The Morning". I can only imagine the grief when WB rejected the first lineup.  Anyone else agree with Leaf that the disappointment over SUNFLOWER was a big reason Brian took another step back from the group?

I think Brian was just upset that Good Time got cut from the final album off of "Add Some Music...". He really seemed to like that song.

[phirnis]

I agree Surf's Up could've used some DW material but I really think it's interesting that this is probably the only record of theirs that doesn't contain a single love song. Correct me if I'm wrong!

I weirdly think Surf's Up is an absolutely perfect album (as is Sunflower). I think the Dennis songs would have messed up the flow and ruined the (largely imagined by myself) thematic continuity. Dennis' songs would have sort of muddled up Carl's and likewise. The Mike and Al moments really do serve to highlight the highs and create balance.

Plus Dennis was all over Sunflower, provided the emotional apex of CATP, and really brought it with Holland, so it wasn't like he got massively screwed.

I think either Lady or 4th of July wouldn't have been out of place on Surf's Up. That said, I do agree it's a perfect album in its own way and it certainly holds a special place for me because this is basically the one record that made me a "hardcore fan". Even many years after I first heard it I find BW's role in the making of this album incredibly fascinating. As a songwriter and producer he's barely there and still "'Til I Die" may be the best song he ever wrote, with the resurrected title track a close second. Now that is the stuff of legends.

[Craig Boyd]

I don't really like 4th of July, the vocal sounds off. I don't know how finished it was but the released version needs some serious work to my ears. Here's a little fun, my alternate Surf's Up.

Not finished at all. Carl's vocal was just a placeholder I think and the whole track had to be constructed for cd release. That's why it sounds a bit weird, beautiful, but weird.

[Jason Penick]

For what it's worth, I should apologize to JManley1 if my initial post came off as being harsh.  It's always fun to play the "what if" game by taking flawed albums and giving them your own spin, merging and splicing as one sees fit. I guess what triggered my light animosity was the records he picked.  The way I see it, Sunflower is near perfect from top to bottom, and Surf's Up was exactly the album they needed to release in 1971.  Combining them is futile; they're two different animals, and to my impression it makes no more sense than merging Party and Pet Sounds.  There's a lot of good, valid conversations to be having about the Beach Boys, and as such I see these types of threads as filler, but as somebody else said, if the thread doesn't appeal to me then I should avoid it and move on.  Fair enough.

Having said that, I think it bares mention that those of you belittling I. Spaceman are doing so at your own disadvantage.  What most of us know in terms of rock music history is a speck on a whiteboard compared to what he possesses.  Try throwing a few thoughtful questions about the Beach Boys his way, and you may get the answers you seek.  Mahalo!

[mr_oleary]

Ok, I listened to A Day in the Life of a Tree while on a specific substance that I shall not incriminate myself against using and it was the most f'd up thing I've ever heard.

I love Brian but dear god that song is deranged.  Not even 'oh it's so sad Brian was in a bad place so it's beautiful in a way' deranged I mean just flat out DERANGED

[Disney Boy (1985)]

I don't really like 4th of July, the vocal sounds off. I don't know how finished it was but the released version needs some serious work to my ears. Here's a little fun, my alternate Surf's Up.

Not finished at all. Carl's vocal was just a placeholder I think and the whole track had to be constructed for cd release. That's why it sounds a bit weird, beautiful, but weird.

This i didn't know - that it was so unfinished - but i totally disagree that it sounds weird. I think it's a stunningly beautiful song, and i love how Carl's voice is so to the fore. I'd always assumed that's how it was supposed to be. Sounds terrific to me. Wish it's made it onto Surf's Up in place of TALOYF. So odd that Dennis's songs were dropped - whatever the reasons (argument with Carl, etc) couldn't they have just released a TWELVE track album? Why did it have to be such a short record??

[Jim V.]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

[I. Spaceman]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

That may be because I genuinely dislike most of you, and I was around here before most of you as well (and then split with most of the rest of those from the Smile Shop). Therefore I don't take some of the things said here that seriously, and I spend a lot of time laughing at what I do read (but that's what I come here for, really). But a few people here, I like quite a bit. Especially The Real Beach Boy. He's cool. Old friend. I like Andrew Doe a lot too (tho I think he dislikes me, because of some old scrap or two). If ya'll want, come to mine and Jon Hunt's message board and start a fight or two, I don't mind.

[the captain]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

That may be because I genuinely dislike most of you, and I was around here before most of you as well (and then split with most of the rest of those from the Smile Shop). Therefore I don't take some of the things said here that seriously, and I spend a lot of time laughing at what I do read (but that's what I come here for, really). But a few people here, I like quite a bit. Especially The Real Beach Boy. He's cool. Old friend. I like Andrew Doe a lot too (tho I think he dislikes me, because of some old scrap or two). If ya'll want, come to mine and Jon Hunt's message board and start a fight or two, I don't mind.

You're sassy. Are you a demon? If so, I'll have you know I am a demon-fighting genius.

[I. Spaceman]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

That may be because I genuinely dislike most of you, and I was around here before most of you as well (and then split with most of the rest of those from the Smile Shop). Therefore I don't take some of the things said here that seriously, and I spend a lot of time laughing at what I do read (but that's what I come here for, really). But a few people here, I like quite a bit. Especially The Real Beach Boy. He's cool. Old friend. I like Andrew Doe a lot too (tho I think he dislikes me, because of some old scrap or two). If ya'll want, come to mine and Jon Hunt's message board and start a fight or two, I don't mind.

You're sassy. Are you a demon? If so, I'll have you know I am a demon-fighting genius.

Oh yes, I love you too. Sorry I didn't mention your name!
I love Bubba Ho-Tep too. Whatta guy.

[Custom Machine]

Way too many great songs on Sunflower and Surf's Up to combine into one 12 track LP, imo, but it was actually done back in the early to mid 70s.  Saw it at as an import (don't recall from what country) at Tower Records in San Francisco roughly around 1974, give or take a couple of years.  I think it was simply called Sunflower/Surf's Up.  It obviously contained a bunch of great songs, and I initially considered buying it as an alternate way to listen to the tracks contained therein, but rejected the idea since too much good stuff from those LPs was not on this import.

[SMiLE Brian]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

That may be because I genuinely dislike most of you, and I was around here before most of you as well (and then split with most of the rest of those from the Smile Shop). Therefore I don't take some of the things said here that seriously, and I spend a lot of time laughing at what I do read (but that's what I come here for, really). But a few people here, I like quite a bit. Especially The Real Beach Boy. He's cool. Old friend. I like Andrew Doe a lot too (tho I think he dislikes me, because of some old scrap or two). If ya'll want, come to mine and Jon Hunt's message board and start a fight or two, I don't mind.

Fan communties change over time, this place is still fun with posters who know their BBs for the most part. Plus newer fans who take the band seriously are learning the massive amounts of information stored in the old thread archives. Things change, but BBs fandom continues. Visited your board and its cool as well.

[Jim V.]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

That may be because I genuinely dislike most of you, and I was around here before most of you as well (and then split with most of the rest of those from the Smile Shop). Therefore I don't take some of the things said here that seriously, and I spend a lot of time laughing at what I do read (but that's what I come here for, really). But a few people here, I like quite a bit. Especially The Real Beach Boy. He's cool. Old friend. I like Andrew Doe a lot too (tho I think he dislikes me, because of some old scrap or two). If ya'll want, come to mine and Jon Hunt's message board and start a fight or two, I don't mind.

Sorry, I never caught this one, but I'd like to respond. You genuinely dislike most of us on here? Why? Because some of the people here are new and don't know as much about The Beach Boys as you or I? I think that is elitist bullshit. Same thing with not taking people here seriously. Obviously, there is quite a few people on here that are kinda lame, but so what? It's a fucking message board. Take the good with the bad, and don't pay attention to what you don't like. I understand that some stupid ass sh*t went down in 2005 (?) or whenever. And I could understand why certain people wouldn't want to be associated with certain owners of this page if they indeed did what was being said about him. But it got turned into something more. It turned into some weird kind of obsession that continues to this day. It seems like a disdain for those who just got into The Beach Boys and want to discuss them on here. Like it's lame to discuss The Beach Boys. But I mean, hey, this is a Beach Boys board, so why wouldn't we discuss them. If you want to make a board that centers on other things, thats awesome, but you don't have to put down people that might be in the same shoes you were in years ago. I was a lurker on here for years before I finally started to post and this was after all that happened, but its bugged me that you treat the people here as bush league.  Now it seems that you only have a valid cool Beach Boys opinion is if you post in the revolving room and have a post-hipster mindset on the band. Like its uncool for the new fans who just found stuff like "Heroes And Villains" or "Caroline No" because, like, "me and my group of totally awesome internet buds were digging those sounds back in '89 and now I don't really care for The Beach Boys, but I mean, if I had to, I'd take 'Chug a Lug' over their entire late '60s output. And make sure not to go to that other, shittier board, cuz those guys are totally LAME!"

Yeah, I went to your record page and asked a few questions and promptly got banned because snarky bullshit is only acceptable if it's coming from you. If it's coming at you, you shut down discussion and ban the offender because sh*t talking the board owner isn't allowed it your board, only this one. Your little record room actually does some to have a few people that produce some good discussion, but some of the stuff from you and one of those Jo(h)n's is just unnecessary meanness. There's no problem having a foul taste in your mouth about why owners of boards have done, but disliking people who are unknowingly part of said person's board is lame and I guess I'll never get it.  I've learned cool things from both of these boards, and it'd be nicer if Beach Boys fans could be nice to each other rather than some high school cafeteria hierarchy.

[over and over]

Sunflower is the greatest album EVER!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[I. Spaceman]

Yeah, I went to your record page and asked a few questions and promptly got banned 

Haha, that says it all.

[Mikie]

What SweetdudeJim said.  

[b00ts]

Never understood why a group of people constantly mining old material just outright dropped those Dennis songs in 71 despite putting two albums out within the next two years. Dennis is all, "FUK YOOOO KARL THIS SONG SHOULD END THE ALBUM," and Carl's all "No" and then Dennis says "Well, may as well toss them aside forever then." What gives?

Didn't he have a solo album in mind then? He probably thought he'd put them on that. And them promptly never finished it. So, near as makes no difference I guess.


Also, bravo Fishmonk. I. Spaceman has the distinctive air of 'Do you know who I think I am?' about him.

Yeah, that guys comments have mean nearly all mean spirited since he's been on here. I just don't find it constructive.

That may be because I genuinely dislike most of you, and I was around here before most of you as well (and then split with most of the rest of those from the Smile Shop). Therefore I don't take some of the things said here that seriously, and I spend a lot of time laughing at what I do read (but that's what I come here for, really). But a few people here, I like quite a bit. Especially The Real Beach Boy. He's cool. Old friend. I like Andrew Doe a lot too (tho I think he dislikes me, because of some old scrap or two). If ya'll want, come to mine and Jon Hunt's message board and start a fight or two, I don't mind.

Sorry, I never caught this one, but I'd like to respond. You genuinely dislike most of us on here? Why? Because some of the people here are new and don't know as much about The Beach Boys as you or I? I think that is elitist bullsh*t. Same thing with not taking people here seriously. Obviously, there is quite a few people on here that are kinda lame, but so what? It's a f*cking message board. Take the good with the bad, and don't pay attention to what you don't like. I understand that some stupid ass sh*t went down in 2005 (?) or whenever. And I could understand why certain people wouldn't want to be associated with certain owners of this page if they indeed did what was being said about him. But it got turned into something more. It turned into some weird kind of obsession that continues to this day. It seems like a disdain for those who just got into The Beach Boys and want to discuss them on here. Like it's lame to discuss The Beach Boys. But I mean, hey, this is a Beach Boys board, so why wouldn't we discuss them. If you want to make a board that centers on other things, thats awesome, but you don't have to put down people that might be in the same shoes you were in years ago. I was a lurker on here for years before I finally started to post and this was after all that happened, but its bugged me that you treat the people here as bush league.  Now it seems that you only have a valid cool Beach Boys opinion is if you post in the revolving room and have a post-hipster mindset on the band. Like its uncool for the new fans who just found stuff like "Heroes And Villains" or "Caroline No" because, like, "me and my group of totally awesome internet buds were digging those sounds back in '89 and now I don't really care for The Beach Boys, but I mean, if I had to, I'd take 'Chug a Lug' over their entire late '60s output. And make sure not to go to that other, sh*ttier board, cuz those guys are totally LAME!"

Yeah, I went to your record page and asked a few questions and promptly got banned because snarky bullsh*t is only acceptable if it's coming from you. If it's coming at you, you shut down discussion and ban the offender because sh*t talking the board owner isn't allowed it your board, only this one. Your little record room actually does some to have a few people that produce some good discussion, but some of the stuff from you and one of those Jo(h)n's is just unnecessary meanness. There's no problem having a foul taste in your mouth about why owners of boards have done, but disliking people who are unknowingly part of said person's board is lame and I guess I'll never get it.  I've learned cool things from both of these boards, and it'd be nicer if Beach Boys fans could be nice to each other rather than some high school cafeteria hierarchy.

It depends. If Ian likes me, then I disagree and look down on you. If he doesn't, I am on your side. It's all about status around here, and I want, nay, need to be one of the cool kids on this Beach Boys messageboard.

[Jim V.]

Yeah, I went to your record page and asked a few questions and promptly got banned  

Haha, that says it all.

I got banned because you didn't want dissent on your board. It's only cool when you come over here and do it, because everybody over here is so lame. It's totally ok for you to look down on everybody else though. Cool bro.

[pixletwin]

Yeah, I went to your record page and asked a few questions and promptly got banned  

Haha, that says it all.

I got banned because you didn't want dissent on your board. It's only cool when you come over here and do it, because everybody over here is so lame. It's totally ok for you to look down on everybody else though. Cool bro.

I decided to not even join up because his website's design gave me a headache.

[I. Spaceman]

Snort snort away, little piggies. By the way, Sweetdude, I wasn't the one who banned you, although you may need to believe that.

[pixletwin]

Not "snorting" and certainly didn't mean to come off as trolling. Get rid of the background images and it would be much more readable.