Manson/Dennis Story

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Not the images, the reality. It happened.  It wasn't a made-for-TV movie.   I didn't need the media to tell me it's not cool to cut out a nearly-born fetus from a pregnant woman who begged for her life and was terrorized, along with several other people who were terrorized and murdered in cold blood.

I confess, I don't think I'd be interested in the songwriting talents of Jeff Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy, either.  Or think it was a great idea to release their songs or have someone like Axl Rose do cover versions, even if they were totally biatchin' tunes.

Manson was not present at the scene of the crime.  Big difference between him and people like Dahmer, etc.

I know of a much more famous person who murdered far more people than Manson (didn't get his hands dirty either), and we Americans paid the bill.  This guy doesn't have a swastika on his head and we were spared the graphic imagery.

No arguing with some people, I guess.  Manson never killed anyone directly, so that makes it not quite so bad.  Got it.  He just had these really creepy, murderous friends who got him in trou-ble and referred to him as The Wizard, but he was just a petty car thief, he never asked anyone to kill anybody.  He did have a silver tongue in explaining himself, and his type tends to get plenty of women writing into him in prison and proposing marriage.  I'm sure that's what impressed Dennis Wilson the most, the fact he was such a charismatic ladies' man, sort of a hippie Hugh Hefner.

[Ron]

I don't like the idea of all the publicity and glorification that Manson has gotten.  Other people may feel the same way and that may be why no one wants to touch the story.  It just encourages future Mansons.  One was enough.  He has never had any socially redeeming values so the less attention the better.

The problem here is that he was a brilliant songwriter.  Phil Spector was convicted of murder and it doesn't affect people appreciating the brilliance of his music.  The Manson thing is media propaganda mostly.  They needed a 'Hippie Hitler' and so they created one.

I've gone about re-creating what I think some of the Manson songs would sound like as recorded by Brian and Carl circa '68 in my own way.  Results to be released this summer.

"brilliant songwriter" ?  To each his own I suppose.  I listen to some of his stuff, but Brilliant Songwriter is a bit much.  "Media Propaganda"?  Are you serious? 

[stack-o-tracks]

I don't like the idea of all the publicity and glorification that Manson has gotten.  Other people may feel the same way and that may be why no one wants to touch the story.  It just encourages future Mansons.  One was enough.  He has never had any socially redeeming values so the less attention the better.

The problem here is that he was a brilliant songwriter.  Phil Spector was convicted of murder and it doesn't affect people appreciating the brilliance of his music.  The Manson thing is media propaganda mostly.  They needed a 'Hippie Hitler' and so they created one.

I've gone about re-creating what I think some of the Manson songs would sound like as recorded by Brian and Carl circa '68 in my own way.  Results to be released this summer.

"brilliant songwriter" ?  To each his own I suppose.  I listen to some of his stuff, but Brilliant Songwriter is a bit much.  "Media Propaganda"?  Are you serious? 

Yup, they're called "opinions" and much like assholes, everybody has one, and they're all different. You need pictures to understand that, or what?

[Ron]

  I'm sure that's what impressed Dennis Wilson the most, the fact he was such a charismatic ladies' man, sort of a hippie Hugh Hefner.

Possibly.  I'm sure to Dennis a lot of what was going on was attractive... maybe even some of the illegal stuff... but that was before people got killed.  It's one thing to kind of live outside society, and that can be really attractive, but when you start harming other people (or likely talking about harming other people) I imagine that wasn't a trip Dennis had signed up for, and that's when he started withdrawing from them.  

That's also the same line MOST sane people draw, lol, young posters on this board excluded.  

[Ron]

I don't like the idea of all the publicity and glorification that Manson has gotten.  Other people may feel the same way and that may be why no one wants to touch the story.  It just encourages future Mansons.  One was enough.  He has never had any socially redeeming values so the less attention the better.

The problem here is that he was a brilliant songwriter.  Phil Spector was convicted of murder and it doesn't affect people appreciating the brilliance of his music.  The Manson thing is media propaganda mostly.  They needed a 'Hippie Hitler' and so they created one.

I've gone about re-creating what I think some of the Manson songs would sound like as recorded by Brian and Carl circa '68 in my own way.  Results to be released this summer.

"brilliant songwriter" ?  To each his own I suppose.  I listen to some of his stuff, but Brilliant Songwriter is a bit much.  "Media Propaganda"?  Are you serious? 

Yup, they're called "opinions" and much like assholes, everybody has one, and they're all different. You need pictures to understand that, or what?

Why don't you go work as hard defending someone who's actually a victim, as you do defending a fucking sociopath?

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If you read my posts in this thread, you'll see the only person I have defended is somebody who's opinion you've talked down on because it's different than the one you hold.

Yeah, Manson is a monster. But no, he didn't actually kill anybody, and in a world where people listen to Ke$ha and Lady Gaga, it's not unfathomable to think he has some songwriting talents.

Different strokes, right?

[Ron]

He said he was a "brilliant songwriter".  

I said "to each his own", but in my opinion he's not.

You jumped all over me.  

So opinions are like assholes, unless it's MY opinion that his songs aren't that great, eh?  

Like I said: instead of defending Manson's songwriting ability, go defend somebody who actually deserves it.  

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Was also the part about "media propaganda are you serious?"

Wake up and read the media, Ron. It's full of propaganda and bias. They have a horrible habit of filling in the blanks with opinions being construed as facts.  But that does not take away from the horribleness of the crimes committed.

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Me no likey this line about "he never killed anybody," which seems to be something various posters are saying, but I guess to each her or his own.  You can say the same thing about Hitler, and apparently Manson admired him, or he wouldn't have written a letter in prison saying that the Germans in World War II were just trying to "improve the earth," as he put it.  By killing several million Jewish people and other ethnic groups.  Then someone brought up Bush/Cheney and Iraq/Afghanistan, but then you'd really need to bring up Nixon, Kennedy and Johnson (Vietnam), etc.  So here's the current line: Manson, not as bad as several American presidents, and he never laid a finger on anyone directly, unlike Dahmer, Gacy, or Phil Spector, so he's really not such an unswell guy.

I've read Manson is the most popular prison inmate in the American penal system.  He gets 60,000 letters a year, with several that include requests to join his Family.  Charles Manson, America's father figure.

[DonnyL]

alright.

[Heysaboda]

When I read the words "brilliant songwriter", I think of Brian Wilson, Dylan, the Beatles, etc.  I don't think of CM, not in a million billion years.

The previous poster (DonnyL) didn't support his opinion, so maybe he was just having a go at us?

But, as Ron said, to each his own.  And if DonnyL wants to put some of CM's songs to music, I bet they will be way better than what Charlie ever wrote.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Regardless, Manson DID tie up the La Biancas and leave them for his kids to kill. All the same as killing them himself, as far as I'm concerned.

[DonnyL]

alright.

[rogerlancelot]

Two words:

Shorty Shea

That is all...

[DonnyL]

alright.

[EthanJClarke93]

Wow i come back to this and there is arguing and about 4 pages, LOL WTH?!

[Mike's Beard]

LIE is actually a pretty good album. The songs do possess a certain goofy, sitting around the campfire sing-a-long charm.

[DonnyL]

alright.

[NHC]

Manson gave some my school mates their first dope, shared some Lucky Lager, and showed them some naked college girls in our hometown on the California North Coast around 1967 before he got busted and moved the gang back south.  Some local townspeople, let's call them, burned down the abandoned farmhouse they were squatting in. But then again we had Reverend Jim Jones teaching in our elementary school for a few years in that same period of time, so what's one more sociopath among many.  Toss in a handful of serial killers and child molesters who passed through in the 80's and I can make a case for a county wax museum.  I think Dennis was scarred by the experience, who wouldn't be, but not sure it added all that much to his later problems., except perhaps making him less trusting (or maybe even too trusting, looking for anything or anyone to take the place of those awful months).  It's very hard to tell if Dennis was as tough as some of the talk and history made him seem to be, or, and this is based on some of his own public musings and certainly his music, a much more thoughtful, introspective, caring, I can't find the right words here, person. Maybe both.  He was after all, one of us humans.  I do remember a quote attributed to him, when he was supposedly accused of "profiting" from the notoriety of it all, when he angrily shouted out something to the effect "these beautiful girls got their (breasts) cut off and I'm somehow profiting from all this?"  I would not have wanted to be the person who asked a question like that directly to him.

[Ron]

Was also the part about "media propaganda are you serious?"

Wake up and read the media, Ron. It's full of propaganda and bias. They have a horrible habit of filling in the blanks with opinions being construed as facts.  But that does not take away from the horribleness of the crimes committed.

Of course the media is full of propaganda and bias, but again:

WHY IS YOUR INDIGNATION IN DEFENSE OF A SOCIOPATH.

If you want to bitch about the media, there's plenty of innocent people to defend, not Charles Manson. 

[Ron]

LIE is actually a pretty good album. The songs do possess a certain goofy, sitting around the campfire sing-a-long charm.

My opinion is that yes it's a decent album.  "Brilliant Songwriter" ?  Come on. 

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There you go again.

"That's really your opinion?"

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Manson gave some my school mates their first dope, shared some Lucky Lager, and showed them some naked college girls in our hometown on the California North Coast around 1967 before he got busted and moved the gang back south.  Some local townspeople, let's call them, burned down the abandoned farmhouse they were squatting in. But then again we had Reverend Jim Jones teaching in our elementary school for a few years in that same period of time, so what's one more sociopath among many.  Toss in a handful of serial killers and child molesters who passed through in the 80's and I can make a case for a county wax museum.  I think Dennis was scarred by the experience, who wouldn't be, but not sure it added all that much to his later problems., except perhaps making him less trusting (or maybe even too trusting, looking for anything or anyone to take the place of those awful months).  It's very hard to tell if Dennis was as tough as some of the talk and history made him seem to be, or, and this is based on some of his own public musings and certainly his music, a much more thoughtful, introspective, caring, I can't find the right words here, person. Maybe both.  He was after all, one of us humans.  I do remember a quote attributed to him, when he was supposedly accused of "profiting" from the notoriety of it all, when he angrily shouted out something to the effect "these beautiful girls got their (breasts) cut off and I'm somehow profiting from all this?"  I would not have wanted to be the person who asked a question like that directly to him.

Oh, Lord. What a perfect sentiment. I choose to believe this.

[Jason Penick]

Seems to me that there's a fortune to be made by somebody like AGD who seems to know so much, that we don't, about the Manson saga.  It's not like all the JFK papers that are still far from being released.

Anyone who wanted to go down that road would be opening themselves up to a landslide of defamation lawsuits, even if what they wrote was entirely truthful.

[zaval80]

Dennis wasn't a drunk or drug addict in 1968. Brian was plenty involved with Manson as was Carl and Mike.

There's a book "Charles Manson in His Own Words" where he talks at some length about all his contacts in music and film industry. Only three people are named by names, and all three are talked about at some length. Dennis, Terry Melcher, Greg Jakobson. No mention of Neil Young, or Brian, or Carl.