gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680597 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 11:11:48 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Manson/Dennis Story  (Read 39279 times)
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #125 on: May 12, 2012, 02:03:56 PM »

Thanxx Paul
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
Dave in KC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 630


View Profile
« Reply #126 on: May 12, 2012, 02:43:04 PM »

Stephen, how scared was Terry Melcher?
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #127 on: May 12, 2012, 04:56:50 PM »

Stephen, how scared was Terry Melcher?

COMMENT: I have no idea. ~swd
Logged
sheknowsmetoowell
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 94


View Profile
« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2012, 12:13:27 PM »

Steven -
       First, I would like to say that I'm extremely grateful to see that you take the time to read/post things on this board. I have always found the Dennis/Manson connection to be fascinating. I have just one question; in that "Cease To Exist" documentary (I know it's riddled with fallacies), they said that Dennis woke up one night to find Manson's "creepy-crawlers" in his bedroom holding knives. Is it true that Dennis and Terry fled to an isolated cabin in Lake Arrowhead for some time?
Logged
sheknowsmetoowell
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 94


View Profile
« Reply #129 on: May 13, 2012, 12:15:50 PM »

Stephen*
Logged
Dave in KC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 630


View Profile
« Reply #130 on: May 13, 2012, 12:49:28 PM »

So the spurned wizard had total control of his "children" so much so that he was able to get them to slaughter people for revenge. Man he sure must have been pissed. And then bond the deed with an idea of trying to start a race war. Massive regular doses of LSD. Their brains were mush.
Logged
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2012, 01:47:29 PM »

So the spurned wizard had total control of his "children" so much so that he was able to get them to slaughter people for revenge. Man he sure must have been pissed. And then bond the deed with an idea of trying to start a race war. Massive regular doses of LSD. Their brains were mush.

That is just the myth that the DA invented and the media ran with it. The more likely reasons for why they killed those nine people are much more mundane but no less sickening.
Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #132 on: May 13, 2012, 05:47:03 PM »

Steven -
       First, I would like to say that I'm extremely grateful to see that you take the time to read/post things on this board. I have always found the Dennis/Manson connection to be fascinating. I have just one question; in that "Cease To Exist" documentary (I know it's riddled with fallacies), they said that Dennis woke up one night to find Manson's "creepy-crawlers" in his bedroom holding knives. Is it true that Dennis and Terry fled to an isolated cabin in Lake Arrowhead for some time?
COMMENT:  I am NOT an expert on the Dennis/Manson matter. All I know is what happened in the studio at those few evening demo sessions with Charlie. I do recall being told that Dennis was laying low for a while, but that's about it.  Never heard any talk around the studio of "creepy-crawlers" in Dennis' bedroom. But if such a thing would have taken place, I would think that everyone would be placed under police protection at that point. Dennis could easily have gone to a cabin, or flown to NYC or Canada if he really wanted to lay low. I doubt if Manson had a passport or the means to fly anywhere. Besides he would need to take a three-hour bath just to get onto an airplane. I don't know where you live, but lake Arrowhead is really not very isolated -- it's a resort area and the location of most noteworthy residences is known by tour map. If I wanted to be safe, I would not isolate myself in a secluded cabin away from the police. I would go to an upscale celebrity vacation place with lots of security designed to keep the paparazzi out and the guests safe from the general public. But I really do not know where Dennis went. ~swd
Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8432



View Profile
« Reply #133 on: May 13, 2012, 06:02:20 PM »

Great stories Steve, I like how you drive home the point of how bad Manson smelled.  Cool
Logged

And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2012, 07:16:53 PM »

Steven -
       First, I would like to say that I'm extremely grateful to see that you take the time to read/post things on this board. I have always found the Dennis/Manson connection to be fascinating. I have just one question; in that "Cease To Exist" documentary (I know it's riddled with fallacies), they said that Dennis woke up one night to find Manson's "creepy-crawlers" in his bedroom holding knives. Is it true that Dennis and Terry fled to an isolated cabin in Lake Arrowhead for some time?
COMMENT:  I am NOT an expert on the Dennis/Manson matter. All I know is what happened in the studio at those few evening demo sessions with Charlie. I do recall being told that Dennis was laying low for a while, but that's about it.  Never heard any talk around the studio of "creepy-crawlers" in Dennis' bedroom. But if such a thing would have taken place, I would think that everyone would be placed under police protection at that point. Dennis could easily have gone to a cabin, or flown to NYC or Canada if he really wanted to lay low. I doubt if Manson had a passport or the means to fly anywhere. Besides he would need to take a three-hour bath just to get onto an airplane. I don't know where you live, but lake Arrowhead is really not very isolated -- it's a resort area and the location of most noteworthy residences is known by tour map. If I wanted to be safe, I would not isolate myself in a secluded cabin away from the police. I would go to an upscale celebrity vacation place with lots of security designed to keep the paparazzi out and the guests safe from the general public. But I really do not know where Dennis went. ~swd

Good studio stuff, for sure; but Lake Arrowhead hasn't always been a security stronghold, and in the mid 60's was nothing of the sort, not even starting to become what iitt is today until the mid to late 1970's.
But what do kids know?
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
Jason Penick
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 580



View Profile
« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2012, 07:49:35 PM »

Steve, I just wanted to say thank you so much for speaking openly about the brief time you spent with Manson in the recording studio. Obviously this is a supremely touchy subject, and I for one really appreciate your candor as so many of those who encountered him are (understandably) remiss to share these experiences. I really do appreciate your courage in speaking out, as I think it does a lot towards lessening the aura of mystery surrounding Charles Manson that has led to the cult of personality that exits todays.

I was just curious if you were willing to speak more towards what, in your opinion, was the distinctive part of his personality that made the girls you saw want to associate themselves with such a character. Did you get the impression that (as has been portrayed in so many books) they were naive waifs that could have been easily misled by anyone who had half a mind to lead them, or were there a certain personality traits he possessed that seemed unique to you? I would also be interested if you can recall any conversations outside of the knife incident. In the tapes I've heard (not BRI sessions) he can be overheard talking off the cuff about religion, government and his general philosophies. Did he impart anything like this to you that you can recall?

Also, anything you remember about the girls in general would be interesting. Had you ever met any of them before or since?

Thank you so much, Steve! I feel like you are a living link to history, and you are doing an important thing by setting the record straight, and helping to detoxify the sea of misinformation that surrounds this case. 
Logged

SUICIDE
It only makes things worse. You can't solve anything by killing yourself. I mean, things can only get better, but if you're dead, they may not. -- Brian Wilson
Mike's Beard
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4265


Check your privilege. Love & Mercy guys!


View Profile
« Reply #136 on: May 13, 2012, 11:31:50 PM »

Manson had a knack of honing in on girls with a "daddy complex". Being a decade+ older than most of them, he would act as a surrogate father figure to them. Plus bad B.O. not withstanding, he was a fairly good looking guy back in the sixties. And let's face it, many women go for the 'bad boy' type.
Logged

I'd rather be forced to sleep with Caitlyn Jenner then ever have to listen to NPP again.
endofposts
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 837


View Profile
« Reply #137 on: May 14, 2012, 01:29:49 AM »

The '60s were a weird, weird time, especially in California.  I watched a documentary about the Summer of Love and have read other sources and it was like a mass madness.  Hundreds of thousands of kids ran away from home and "crashed" in the Haight Ashbury district of San Francisco in 1967, where there were tons of drugs and stores that gave away used clothing and other junk for free.  Some of the kids who came out to SF were as young as 13 or 14 years old.  Many of those people did not bathe often.  Between the fact that many were homeless or on drugs or mentally ill in some cases, cleanliness was not a priority. If Manson didn't bathe, he fit right in. He recruited many of his followers from San Francisco before moving on to LA.  I'm sure he didn't seem that odd at the time and was just another Pied Piper that drew a lot of lonely, vulnerable young girls in the hippie scene.  The hippie movement, like a lot of other social movements, tended to be male-oriented (if nothing else, because it's just safer for guys to go out in the world and do that kind of thing).  I'm sure the girls on the streets who were drawn to him saw Charlie as some kind of beneficent protector who made them feel pretty and special.  And he didn't smell that much worse than a lot of other dudes camping out for months in Golden Gate Park.
Logged
Menace Wilson
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


View Profile
« Reply #138 on: May 14, 2012, 12:10:22 PM »

Very interesting info, thank you for sharing it!  Did Brian, Carl, or Mike ever express any opinions of the stuff Manson put to tape?
Logged

"Jeff, you care." --BW
ontor pertawst
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2575


L♡VE ALWAYS WINS


View Profile WWW
« Reply #139 on: May 14, 2012, 12:27:41 PM »

And do you remember what you tried to make him sound better after he realized he had no idea how to function in a studio and deferred to you?


Sorry to go all Tape Op on you suddenly, but this is absolutely fascinating and more than a bit surreal.
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #140 on: May 15, 2012, 12:46:15 PM »

Great stories Steve, I like how you drive home the point of how bad Manson smelled.  Cool

COMMENT:  Myself, as most of you reading this, take a shower every day or so, and if it's hot like here in Florida I might take two showers a day to overcome the extra sweat from all the humidity.  In Californa I took a shower every day, like most people. Now I understand that Charlie was not living in a house, but he was living somewhere. He was not a street person. So if he knew that he was going to a recording session in Brian Wilson's home, you would think he might make the effort to get himself cleaned up --- somehow. But day after day he showed up smelly. He could have, at least, stood under a garden hose and not been so rude as to present his personal body with BO. ~swd
Logged
stack-o-tracks
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1408


The baker man


View Profile
« Reply #141 on: May 15, 2012, 12:55:11 PM »

 LOL I love it. Thanks so much for your insights, Mr. Desper.
Logged

No mas, por favor.
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #142 on: May 15, 2012, 01:03:02 PM »

Steven -
       First, I would like to say that I'm extremely grateful to see that you take the time to read/post things on this board. I have always found the Dennis/Manson connection to be fascinating. I have just one question; in that "Cease To Exist" documentary (I know it's riddled with fallacies), they said that Dennis woke up one night to find Manson's "creepy-crawlers" in his bedroom holding knives. Is it true that Dennis and Terry fled to an isolated cabin in Lake Arrowhead for some time?
COMMENT:  I am NOT an expert on the Dennis/Manson matter. All I know is what happened in the studio at those few evening demo sessions with Charlie. I do recall being told that Dennis was laying low for a while, but that's about it.  Never heard any talk around the studio of "creepy-crawlers" in Dennis' bedroom. But if such a thing would have taken place, I would think that everyone would be placed under police protection at that point. Dennis could easily have gone to a cabin, or flown to NYC or Canada if he really wanted to lay low. I doubt if Manson had a passport or the means to fly anywhere. Besides he would need to take a three-hour bath just to get onto an airplane. I don't know where you live, but lake Arrowhead is really not very isolated -- it's a resort area and the location of most noteworthy residences is known by tour map. If I wanted to be safe, I would not isolate myself in a secluded cabin away from the police. I would go to an upscale celebrity vacation place with lots of security designed to keep the paparazzi out and the guests safe from the general public. But I really do not know where Dennis went. ~swd

Good studio stuff, for sure; but Lake Arrowhead hasn't always been a security stronghold, and in the mid 60's was nothing of the sort, not even starting to become what iitt is today until the mid to late 1970's.
But what do kids know?
COMMENT: I don't think you understood my comment. I said that Dennis would have been better off by going to a celebrity resort area, not the open town that was Lake Arrowhead.  I have vacationed at Lake Arrowhead many times in the early 60's. Where people lived was not a secret. The local Real Estate office had listings of where people had cabins. It would have been easy to find him there, once you figured out that was where he was.  BUT I don't know if he went to the lake or not. I did not and still do not know where Dennis went during that time. ~swd
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #143 on: May 15, 2012, 02:25:19 PM »

Very interesting info, thank you for sharing it!  Did Brian, Carl, or Mike ever express any opinions of the stuff Manson put to tape?
COMMENT:  I recorded Charles Manson playing several songs during the course of a few days. Those tapes were placed on the tape shelf located under the monitors. During the next few weeks and to my knowledge no one ever requested to hear them. They ask me what I thought of him as a potential talent for the label, but then time ran out. That is to say, before the tapes were ever reviewed by anyone, the murders happened and the tapes were locked away. Even Dennis never ask about the tapes only to inquire if he showed up for the sessions. Dennis wanted to be certain that his friend had been able to make the demo recordings, which was what he told Charlie he would arrange for him.

You see, Manson was very unaware of how these things work. He thought that he would record the demo, then the next day everyone would listen and a contract would be pushed under his nose. In practice, these things may take months to pan out. Undoubtedly Dennis and Charlie talked, but their understandings mean nothing in the music business. They were both lawyers & contracts away from anything meaningful.

From the start Charlie had little patience in the studio. So from what I observed, I would guess his patience ran out much sooner than then norm. However, in hindsight, I must comment that his impatience is a behavior pattern observed by healthy people of another person who is on crack. Was it around then? I don't know. But in hindsight, maybe he was on some form of early crack and I was naive enough to not know about it or recognise its symptoms.

In my discussions with him, one underlaying view he had was of a world small and simple. Black and white; no gradations. No curves; only straight lines. His arguments were crazy-talk. I thought he was psychotic or the least chronic paranoia, another drug symptom. But the guy could play the guitar with feeling. He had good songs, but his performance of them would be best handled by a seasoned artist.

If Manson would have exhibited more patience with the situation, eventually someone would hear the demo and make a judgement. Maybe they would buy a song or two. Who knows.

His drug-enhanced impatience was the core direction, a platform upon which he built all his arguments he thought justified any future actions he might take. Let he who builds upon sand, beware.
 ~swd
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 05:24:55 PM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #144 on: May 15, 2012, 02:51:04 PM »

Very interesting again Stephen.
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #145 on: May 15, 2012, 05:46:17 PM »

And do you remember what you tried to make him sound better after he realized he had no idea how to function in a studio and deferred to you?

l
COMMENT: From my perspective, here was a single artist playing a single instrument, and I had eight tracks to capture whatever I wanted. So of course, record the guitar in stereo and the vocal with two mics. That's four tracks. I could have the artist add a bass or overdub. That never happended.  But anyway... Charlie's envision of recording was him in front of a mic. When confronted with four microphones and baffles, he was overwhelmed. He had to sit, or try to stay somewhat in the center between the two mics. His vocal screen had two mics behind it, each with their own track. This would give me two different microphone signatures to blend for a final sound. I was in and out of the studio making adjustments and complaining to him to sit still. He was constantly standing up and being fidgety. I would just get it all adjusted and he would move out of his seat. Finally I told him that if he wanted a successful demo recording he was going to need to settle down and listen to me. I was on his side. Just follow my instructions and play real good. The rest, I'll take care of and make him sound great. Give me your best, and I'll give you mine. So after a while he settled into the whole recording scene and we did get some good tracks.  ~swd
Logged
Menace Wilson
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 437


View Profile
« Reply #146 on: May 16, 2012, 01:02:07 PM »

Fascinating!
Logged

"Jeff, you care." --BW
onkster
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 882


View Profile
« Reply #147 on: May 16, 2012, 01:14:31 PM »

Stephen-
What songs ended up sounding the best?
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1365


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #148 on: May 16, 2012, 06:51:06 PM »

Stephen-
What songs ended up sounding the best?
COMMENT:  I have no recollecting of the music. Only dealing with him. ~swd
Logged
bgas
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6372


Oh for the good old days


View Profile
« Reply #149 on: May 16, 2012, 06:53:14 PM »

Stephen-
What songs ended up sounding the best?
COMMENT:  I have no recollecting of the music. Only dealing with him. ~swd

Selective memories; yes , we all have those sometimes.
Perhaps you could do some hypnosis to recall more?
Logged

Nothing I post is my opinion, it's all a message from God
gfx
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.68 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!