Is Rock Dead? :/

[Newguy562]

I mean we have the classics which is just fine but how come rock isn't charting well anymore? :[
It's mostly Rap & Techno Influenced Pop that's hitting the top of the charts..
Do you think modern rock will have a revival or will it get worse?
Another thing I've noticed is i come across many people that wear band tee's(Led Zeppelin,The Doors,Pink Floyd,The Ramones) but don't even listen to any of those bands or even that genre of music. (It's not a fashion statement damn it!) ..it's annoying! Am I the only person this has happen too or noticed?

[AndrewHickey]

Rock doesn't chart as much as it used to for exactly the same reasons that be-bop, swing and ragtime also don't. It's been, essentially, a dead artform since after punk. Which isn't to say there's been no good music in the genre since then - of course there has - but it's had nothing new to say.

Very roughly speaking, there have been three major musical movements over the last century - jazz, rock, and hip-hop (in a larger sense, counting all the music that gets classed as 'urban' or 'R&B' these days, in the same way one would count both Miles Davis and Jelly Roll Morton in the definition of jazz). Each of those (all of which originally came from party music played by poor black Americans) has had a roughly thirty- to forty-year cultural domination, followed in the first two cases by a slow decline.

That suggests to me that in the next five to ten years some new style of music will be coming up (if it's not already - I am hardly someone with a finger on the pulse of the young people's music of the day) and displacing hip-hop/'urban' music, and in thirty years or so we'll have a load of middle-aged people grumpily saying "Call that music? It's just noise. You can't hear the words. Why don't you play some Wu-Tang Clan or Public Enemy, something with a tune we can all sing along to?"

[hypehat]

You do get new, vital guitar music - I don't wanna use the word 'rock', because that's but one facet of guitar based music which seems to be what you mean - in other elements of the spectrum. For instance, indie music or metal. But if you're talking the mainstream, rock is dead, yeah. As a concept, it's only got itself to blame, really. The major rock bands of the last 15 years have had to deal with frankly more exciting and interesting music from other disciplines and it's simply been left behind - people don't want to start 'rock' bands anymore. The sheer ease with which one can find many new styles of music thanks to the internet helps to inspire people to make, say, house music in Audacity or use Youtube as a outlet if you are a incredibly prolific MC (such as the 100% Silk label, or Lil B) as opposed to pick up a guitar, which also used to be the easiest way to make music. I mean, to make electronic in the 70's you either had to loaded or build the f*ckers yourself, like Kraftwerk. Now you can pirate Ableton and some VST's and do it for free. The game's changed.


*phew, that's a long post&

[AndrewHickey]

Absolutely. I'd argue that even the good stuff has little new to say, as opposed to new lights in which to look at old ideas. Which is, of course, a good thing to do in itself.

But the change was inevitable. All the previous musical paradigm shifts (to use an awful phrase, but i can't think of a better) have come from social and technological shifts, just like this one. Jazz grew up, for example, because of the rise of mass-produced brass instruments (and saxophones, which are woodwinds but made of brass) in the late 19th century after Adolphe Sax invented pretty much all the modern brass instruments.

Similarly, rock and roll started after the invention of the electric guitar, when people realised they could play Louis Jordan style jump blues, but with a much smaller band like country musicians like Hank Williams were using, if they amplified the guitars a lot.

And modern electronic music (as opposed to, say, musique concrete) really started once cheap samplers, sequencers and drum machines were invented.

Each of these innovations allowed people to do more with less money, and whatever comes next will also be based on some technological change, at least in part. And there'll be people who cling on to today's technology and make retro-2010s sounding music.

Basically, though, all art forms go through four phases. There's the initial invention - "look, we can play jump blues with an electric guitar!". Then there's the people who come along and expand on the work of the initial pioneers - "what if we add a mellotron and a ten-minute drum solo?". Then there's the people following them who want to get back to basics - in rock music both 70s blues-rock and punk were, in their own ways, part of this reactionary trend. And then there are the people who follow *them*, who feel free to pick and choose from any and all of those eras for influences and mix and match (in rock music, that would be post-punk).

You see the same pattern recurring in all art-forms, over longer and shorter periods of time. You can even see it in the careers of some individuals, if they happen to live in a fast-changing time (the Beatles' career pretty much had all those stages in it, for example).

There will be good - even great - music made by bands with guitars for decades yet, just as there is still good music being made by jazz musicians, by composers writing for symphony orchestras, by people working in the folk tradition, and so on. But it'll never again be culturally relevant in the way it was from about 1956 through about 1986.

[the captain]

"Rock is dead" has been a common refrain for decades. I remember in my high school years hearing the exact same thing, and next thing you knew, you had Nevermind, Metallica, Use Your Illusion I, Use Your Illusion II, and For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge all at or near the top of the charts within a short span of months.

That said, if a person thinks rock is dead, it probably is, based on what he considers to be "real rock." If you define rock as guitar-based bands with a heavy beat, well, there are plenty of those bands out there, and some are doing quite well. Somebody must like them.

Sure, hip hop has been the dominant force in music the past few decades, but as has always been true in music, each innovation or recombination of ideas just adds to the palette. The old colors are all still there, too, and every few years, somebody finds a way to reintroduce them to a new audience. (British bands bringing American blues artists back to Americans, '90s indie bands bringing '60s psychedelia to that generation, or current bands bringing a mellow '70s vibe and horrible mustaches back to the kids of today, among the billions of examples.)

It is a constant churning of the same old ideas plus a few new ones. The biggest differences are technology and audiences: the ones who matter most are the young market who set the trends, and then the older ones who have jobs and can afford ridiculously priced tickets to see their reformed favorites and can complain about how rock is dead.

[pixletwin]

Rock n Roll is like a great whale. It goes under water for a while and you don't see it, but when it breaks the surface, watch out.

[the captain]

Rock n Roll is like a great whale.

Fatty and flammable.

[Mahalo]

More and more I hear most rock as just amplified folk music. I think about this a lot. At this point in life I really don't care what most lead singers have to say anymore. Just like this post, anyone ever notice how often the word "I" is used in 99% of the songs out there?

[the captain]

Just like this post, anyone ever notice how often the word "I" is used in 99% of the songs out there?

Someone who lately posts here pretty regularly once said something along the lines of "music needs more still lifes and fewer self portraits." I liked that idea.

Writing songs is a very personal thing, but at a certain point sharing something personal just becomes narcissistic tedium. The key, presumably, is finding just the right mix of the personal with the universal, preferably with some kind of insight. But most often, it's the personal with the universal with a huge helping of the obvious.

[Mahalo]

The key, presumably, is finding just the right mix of the personal with the universal, preferably with some kind of insight. But most often, it's the personal with the universal with a huge helping of the obvious.

I think the BB's were pretty awesome at handling that...

Another thing since you brought up "key" is the actual key of the songs.....It goes a long way for bands to change keys for different songs, and to modulate tastefully within the songs. Sometimes when I find a band I like they too often hang aroung a certain key that's best for the vocalist but too redundant for an entire album.

[the captain]

I agree, but would broaden the scope somewhat. A certain amount of sonic variety is important, and you can get there through key changes or through interesting and unexpected chord patterns, but also through changing up instrumentation, song forms, lead singers for songs or sections, or any number of other things. Variety / spice / life / etc.

[Mahalo]

I ask too, what is Rock? I still prefer the phrase Rock n' Roll, but what is it nowadays? Has it been yuppified to the point that it is beyond cliche? When one thinks that they are rebelling by listening to Metal, hip-hop, or whatever are they really just conforming to the mold people would expect? Has it always been this way?

It is good to bring this up because I think about this so much, but I don't want to delve too deep into the realms of Nerd-om.  It was refreshing to listen to L.A. Woman last night for the first time in awhile...now the Doors rocked!

I like what you said about instrumentation and flexibility. As I got into my Mozart trance I have come to feel that he truly was a Rock n' Roll pioneer. Listen to the Kyrie form his great Mass in C minor, if you can stomach the classical stuff...timpani's thunder throughout, the cello's at 45 sec., and the swelling of the tide of anger in the music before it drops out for the soprano, only to return at the end of the song...make sure to turn it up!

I only post this because it has elements of Rock in it, IMO, and we all love Rock n' Roll (I hope).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slJ_uRYm2Mk

[BananaLouie]

For the most part yes butat least 2012 is the year of reunions especially The Beach Boys, Black Sabbath and Van Halen!!! 

[the captain]

if you can stomach the classical stuff...

I was a music theory and composition major in college, as well as jazz performance and assorted rock-band participant: I'm cool with all good music.

I don't think Mozart was a rock 'n' roll pioneer, but rather a virtuosic talent and innovator in his own time and environment. Sometimes I think we try too hard to make people fit into other categories to add coolness, or credibility, or something else. I'm thinking of Tom Petty talking about B. Wilson's music as being in the same category as Beethoven's, for example. On a theoretical level, that's just not even close to accurate, but it's as if we can't acknowledge the quality of it as it is, in its own form, without placing it beside the kind of music that has a reputation of seriousness. The reverse is also true, I think. Mozart doesn't have to be a rock 'n' roller to be cool. Anger, hate, love, sex, depression--these things all existed long before there was rock 'n' roll, and everything that exists is always in the music.

[the captain]

I forgot to comment on this.

Has it been yuppified to the point that it is beyond cliche? When one thinks that they are rebelling by listening to Metal, hip-hop, or whatever are they really just conforming to the mold people would expect? Has it always been this way?

It was "yuppified" before there were yuppies. As long as it has been for sale, I'd guess the answer is yes, it is mostly conformity. Or at least until the concept of rebellious teenager was invented and marketed. 

[guitarfool2002]

The fact that the Black Keys are one of the most popular bands in the US right now might suggest rock isn't dead at all. Factor in how many large music festivals feature any and all styles of music under one name/concert and rock isn't dead.

This whole thing with the "keyboard" somehow replacing or making the guitar's position in music less vital has always been a load of crap.

Good music will always exist, no matter what it's created with. Most people who suggest the keyboard and/or synthesizer "took over" for the guitar have never plugged into an amp and played an open a chord at extremely high volume and gotten a sheer rush from doing it. Likewise many guitarists have never sat down at a Hammond B3 cranked through a real Leslie and played a single note for that rush.

Remember that rock was dead when Decca rejected the Beatles, too...

[Newguy562]

You do get new, vital guitar music - I don't wanna use the word 'rock', because that's but one facet of guitar based music which seems to be what you mean - in other elements of the spectrum. For instance, indie music or metal. But if you're talking the mainstream, rock is dead, yeah. As a concept, it's only got itself to blame, really. The major rock bands of the last 15 years have had to deal with frankly more exciting and interesting music from other disciplines and it's simply been left behind - people don't want to start 'rock' bands anymore. The sheer ease with which one can find many new styles of music thanks to the internet helps to inspire people to make, say, house music in Audacity or use Youtube as a outlet if you are a incredibly prolific MC (such as the 100% Silk label, or Lil B) as opposed to pick up a guitar, which also used to be the easiest way to make music. I mean, to make electronic in the 70's you either had to loaded or build the f*ckers yourself, like Kraftwerk. Now you can pirate Ableton and some VST's and do it for free. The game's changed.


*phew, that's a long post&

all praise basegod!!!! lil b!  jk..the game has changed so much :[

[vintagemusic]

RocknRoll or Rock or rock pop, whatever, dominated the marketplace for several decades.

It has clearly declined. a lower percentage of people are into it, than before. I don't even
want to get into what the reasons could be. Bad choices by record companies, cheaper
production costs, just a natural shift to something now

But rock is not totally dead no. It wont be totally dead. For decades to come. But it is a fringe
or splintered piece of the market now. Instead of being 70-80 percent of music sales, what is
now ?  10-20 percent ?


When I was a kid, everybodys parents or grandparents wanted to listen to "their music" and those
early 20th century entertainers, the big bands, or Sinatra types, played smaller venues to a select
mostly older audience, and thats whats happening to rock.



Even if you had someone as talented as a new Beatles or Beach Boys, they would be doing it
fifty years later, when I heard Sgt Pepper and Good Vibrations as a six year old or whatever. It
was really historic,   great writing, cutting edge, great singing, great playing, arranging, themes
that appealed to the masses, simplicity that people could tap their foot to or dance to


Somebody would have to be able to do, all those things again, but different and new, so I think
thats why people expect some as yet unknown genre of music to eventually, come along, some
hybrid that has something totally new. We had that with rap or hiphop, but you have to be indoctrinated
into that, its not an appealing music form. Something else will come along, some hybrid that isin't
such a terrible genre as what we've had for 15-20 years since rock began a slow decline.

[Dead Parrot]

To borrow a phrase from Noel Gallagher...

Rock & Roll won't die, because Neil Young said so.

[hypehat]

To borrow a phrase from Mogwai....


Hardcore will never die, but you will. 

Yeah, was saying rock is 'dead' only if you're thinking about pop. If anything, cheap CDs and records and the sheer power of the web make it so classic rock is much easier to access. As of course, is everything else.

I am kinda not looking forward to a rock revival, if the natural ebb and flow of things is to be believed. For 'the band' (Lets say The Libertines or Arctic Monkeys), there are so many stupid followers and copycats and the scene gets all horrible with things like 'at last real music is back'. f*** that.

[Newguy562]

i know this is so off subject but at the end of this song what beach boys song are they kind of immitating ?
it sounds so beach boys-ish lol check out 2:09-2:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT1OKo1rT84

[meltedwhiskeyinmyhand]

there is plenty of good rock out there, you just have to find it

[Chocolate Shake Man]

there is plenty of good rock out there, you just have to find it

I think that suggests that it is dead, actually.

[SMiLE Brian]

Rock is Dead!, Long Live Rock!- The Who

[meltedwhiskeyinmyhand]

there is plenty of good rock out there, you just have to find it

I think that suggests that it is dead, actually.

Touche but just because it isnt on the cover of rolling stone or playing on top 40 doesnt mean its dead.