New album info (as it rolls out...)

[DonnyL]

First off thanks DonnyL for a great post about growing up loving the BB, I understand it's a shame that TWGMTR is not an actual BW production.

Care to share your source for this unequivocal statement ?

Just to clarify, are both of you indicating that Joe Thomas is credited as engineer on the album?

Yes, he is.

I must say this is the only time I've ever seen an engineer usurp the producer in such a way on a Beach Boys album.  Very clever.

Apologies for my earlier comments, I hadn't realized you were there in the studio to personally witness Brian being usurped and report this fact back to us with such authority.

Unless you're simply touting your personal bias and baseless assumption as some sort of verifiable fact, but who would be that arrogant?

Perhaps I should re-word every post to make it 100% clear that I am offering an opinion.

"I must say this is the only time I've ever heard an end product that sounds so little like Brian Wilson and so much like one of his collaborators -- in terms of production -- that I am lead to believe Thomas took his engineering role too far into the realm of production, so much that I have formed the opinion that Joe Thomas is more responsible for the production than Brian Wilson is!"

Is that better ?

Does everyone here have Asperger's or are you guys just jerks

I don't know, I think people are defensively interpreting your posts as a threat against the new album. Perhaps it won't actually come out if you keep this up.

Watch what you guys say. I have the power to replace the entire contents of TWGMTR with Andy Paley-produced variations of "Shortenin' Bread".

[Mr. Cohen]

The lack of traditional BW production hallmarks could mean one of two things, to me: 1. He wasn't always involved. 2. He convinced himself to go in a more modern direction in order to be contemporary. So, while BW might hate cymbals, he maybe realized that there are a lot of people that don't and that sleigh bells and loud shakers are not typical of modern rock/pop.

[DonnyL]

I'd say it's the way it's written which is what's getting DonnyL so much grief.  If it didn't sound like he was saying "well, it's only my opinion, but if you don't think Brian's been obviously usurped you're clearly blind or deluding yourself", the opinion bit might seem more heartfelt...

I doubt it. If I were stating my opinion about it clearly being 'such a great BW production and anyone who doesn't hear it doesn't know anything about the Beach Boys or sound', I'd probably get a resounding 'HURRAH!' from Team Smiley.

[SMiLE Brian]

While BW might hate cymbals, he maybe realized that there are a lot of people that don't and that sleigh bells and loud shakers are not typical of modern rock/pop.

The tragedy of modern music in a nutshell.

[Jonathan Blum]

* surprising/unexpected twists and turns

* surprising/unexpected rumination on the same pattern(s)

* juxtaposition of the dumb and the brilliant

Awesome summary, almost a  " how to guide" for  BW's music and making classics.

...But apparently juxtaposing '50s 6/8 rock-and-roll with '80s power-ballad-style bridge chords, with staggering harmonies throughout, doesn't count as either "surprising/unexpected twists and turns" or "juxtaposition of the dumb and the brilliant".

No, instead those are reasons to make snippy comments about "Eye of the Tiger", a song with which it has pretty much zero resemblance (I'd point to something like "Lights" by Journey for that bridge way before anything from Survivor).  Only particular flavors of dumb need apply, it seems.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Mr. Cohen]

The tragedy of modern music in a nutshell.

Agreed.

[Lowbacca]

Only particular flavors of dumb need apply, it seems.  :-)

No reason for such BS. We're better than that.

[Mr. Cohen]

Also, one odd thing about Joe Thomas's interview... he seems to look at himself as BW's equal. He can throw out of 40% of Brian's ideas (Thomas's words), bring in some of his own (which the typically agreeable BW can reject), and then the two are ready to bang out a song. Then again, maybe Joe Thomas is BW's equal now. A scary thought.

[Justin]

Also, one odd thing about Joe Thomas's interview... he seems to look at himself as BW's equal. He can throw out of 40% of Brian's ideas (Thomas's words)

Well I think he's just admitting that he knows Brian's strengths well enough to know when something isn't of top quality.  We do it every day on this board when we criticize Brian or Mike or whomever else's artistic choice in a song.  Joe isn't exempt from it any more than we are; the only difference is that he's established himself as a legitimate writing partner in Brian's eyes.  Brian trusts Joe and the decisions he makes.  No harm in that.

[Mr. Cohen]

Brian trusts Joe and the decisions he makes.  No harm in that.

Yeah, maybe. I found that only time that Joe appeared to really see Brian as his superior when he was talking about the "My Life" suite. And coincidentally, it's those songs that seem the most authentic BW (even with Paul Mertens having a field day). The perfect example of the Joe Thomas effect on BW is "Everything I Need". With Joe on board it's a completely different song - better in some ways, worse in others. In the end, I'm not convinced it's better overall, and we lose some of BW's voice in attempt to be contemporary.

[DonnyL]

Brian trusts Joe and the decisions he makes.  No harm in that.

um ...

[DonnyL]

While BW might hate cymbals, he maybe realized that there are a lot of people that don't and that sleigh bells and loud shakers are not typical of modern rock/pop.

The tragedy of modern music in a nutshell.

indeed.

[18thofMay]

have you heard the album DonnyL?

[Wirestone]

Why don't we take some time on this thread to talk about the new album, and not Donny?

[Lowbacca]

Does anyone know why the vinyl is taking a month longer to be released?

[Heysaboda]

Also, one odd thing about Joe Thomas's interview... he seems to look at himself as BW's equal. He can throw out of 40% of Brian's ideas (Thomas's words), bring in some of his own (which the typically agreeable BW can reject), and then the two are ready to bang out a song. Then again, maybe Joe Thomas is BW's equal now. A scary thought.

WOW
I did not get that at all.  Thomas is clearly, clearly in awe of Brian, and obviously loves collaborating with the world's greatest songwriter.

[Wirestone]

Also, one odd thing about Joe Thomas's interview... he seems to look at himself as BW's equal. He can throw out of 40% of Brian's ideas (Thomas's words), bring in some of his own (which the typically agreeable BW can reject), and then the two are ready to bang out a song. Then again, maybe Joe Thomas is BW's equal now. A scary thought.

WOW
I did not get that at all.  Thomas is clearly, clearly in awe of Brian, and obviously loves collaborating with the world's greatest songwriter.

This was my impression, too. The sorting through statement seemed to have more to do with Joe taping nearly everything Brian did, so he'd have a reference to all the things Brian threw out during recording/writing sessions. BW won't recall them all, but it gives Joe lots of things to send back to Brian. I mean, BW is entirely capable of writing a song at home and taping it, if he really wants to remember something.

[18thofMay]

Why don't we take some time on this thread to talk about the new album, and not Donny?

He has dominated this thread for several pages. I have remained calm, it is a simple question. Has he heard the album to formulate his opinion?

[Mark H]

hopefully, people can UNDERSTAND - meaning, it's understood - that's what he THINKS. Of course it's all the way it is written. How does this sound: "In my opinion, it clearly sounds like Brian wasn't running the show". It's the exact same point, obviously phrased differently.

This is it, spot on.  Let's stop questioning opinion or going over semantics or connotation etc.

Give the album another spin and discuss and listen

[DonnyL]

Why don't we take some time on this thread to talk about the new album, and not Donny?

He has dominated this thread for several pages. I have remained calm, it is a simple question. Has he heard the album to formulate his opinion?

Let's just say I'm waiting for the vinyl to make my purchase.

I don't wish to 'dominate' this thread any longer, so I'll exit now. (The only reason for this perception of domination is that I have a strong opinion which is at odds with most people on the board.)

I'll see you guys in Berkely tomorrow !

[runnersdialzero]

Why can't people make it easier for all people by putting "imo" after each sentence? imo.

[Lowbacca]

Some observations: there's hardly any prominent Bruce vocals and not enough of Jardine's still awesome voice (methinks). Brian sounds good, but not as inspired or "into it" (or whatever) as on his recent solo output (just listen to "Baby Mine" or "I've Got a Crush On You" for comparison). Mike is okay mostly, and pretty cool on "Daybreak" (I gotta admit). Dave apparently didn't record any vocals at all for this.

[18thofMay]

Why don't we take some time on this thread to talk about the new album, and not Donny?

He has dominated this thread for several pages. I have remained calm, it is a simple question. Has he heard the album to formulate his opinion?

Let's just say I'm waiting for the vinyl to make my purchase.

I don't wish to 'dominate' this thread any longer, so I'll exit now. (The only reason for this perception of domination is that I have a strong opinion which is at odds with most people on the board.)

I'll see you guys in Berkely tomorrow !

You have a very strong opinion for something you have not heard in it's entirety as yet.

[Shady]

I wish Mike went in a more introspective direction with his lyrics..

The man's been through so much just like the rest of the BB's in the last 20 years, would've been interesting to hear his thoughts on life etc

[elnombre]

I'd say it's the way it's written which is what's getting DonnyL so much grief.  If it didn't sound like he was saying "well, it's only my opinion, but if you don't think Brian's been obviously usurped you're clearly blind or deluding yourself", the opinion bit might seem more heartfelt...

I doubt it. If I were stating my opinion about it clearly being 'such a great BW production and anyone who doesn't hear it doesn't know anything about the Beach Boys or sound', I'd probably get a resounding 'HURRAH!' from Team Smiley.

You stated that Brian had been 'usurped' in the studio by his engineer, among other baseless assumptions, all presented as fact.

You have entirely zero evidence of any of this, or you would have offered it by now.

People have patiently taken the time to point out to you that 'I don't like the production' or 'it doesn't sound like what I expected of a Brian Wilson production' are opinions. Basically saying 'Brian didn't produce it' is nonsense until you can prove otherwise.

You respond to this being pointed out by throwing your toys out of the pram and whinging that people are 'jerks'. That along with your infantile 'Team Smiley' nonsense (an obvious and rather pathetic tactic to box your detractors in a corner while you continue to refuse to back up your claims) leads me to suggest you might need to grow up.

If I said 'Mike Love isn't doing the Mike Love vocals on this record, they must have hired someone', people would expect me to prove my point, and rightly so.