New album info (as it rolls out...)

[AndrewHickey]

Regardless of our different feelings on the finished product, Andrew, I think this is precisely right.

And I'm not the biggest fan of Joe Thomas's overall sound or taste level. But I think it's possible to believe that Brian produced the record and was engaged by it, and that Joe also had a considerable say in how the final mix came out, and that the finished result will not be to everyone's taste. But none of these suppositions necessarily invalidates any of the others.

Exactly.

And incidentally, I want to make clear that i don't actually *have* 'feelings on the finished product' yet (though I certainly see why you would think I did). I've only heard about half the tracks, and that mostly through fairly low-bitrate streams on bad laptop speakers (and I'm also suffering a temporary ear problem this week that means I'm deaf in one ear). What I've heard doesn't fill me with confidence, but I'm not going to dismiss the album based on that. In fact, I probably won't have a fixed opinion on the album for a year or so -- almost every Beach Boys album I truly love has had to grow on me, while those I've enjoyed from first listen don't hold up as well to my ears on repeated listening (though I've been able to tell if I *hate* an album on first listening...)

[Mark H]

First off thanks DonnyL for a great post about growing up loving the BB, I understand it's a shame that TWGMTR is not an actual BW production.

Care to share your source for this unequivocal statement ?

Yeh it's just me trying to explain myself/comment on DonnyL's post.

'Actual' in heavy commas etc, it's a BW production in process/album credit but not to DonnyL's (and others) ears.

Basically it's why I typed a post earlier but didn't post it until sweetdudejim posted so well.  I'm not that good at getting my point, even if it's just agreeing,  across!

Short answer for my source, I didn't mean what I wrote literally, sorry!

I'm loving the album btw

[DonnyL]

When you combine engineering and songwriting with an artist you've previously 'produced' an album with, it certainly raises a lot of questions. Especially when the end product sounds like you produced it. I guess Brian really wanted those 'Eye of the Tiger' guitar breaks on the single, right?

[Wirestone]

See, the thing is, Brian is a producer from the sixties, and he's going to produce that way because that's what he's comfortable with. He's not going to delve into ProTools, like I said, when he knows nothing about it. 

Absolutely. And if what I said sounded like I thought otherwise, I worded it badly. I was just trying to point out that the job description of 'record producer' has changed immeasurably over the course of Brian's career, and from the sounds of it what Brian is doing is 'record production' in the way that he, or George Martin, or Phil Spector were record producers, not in the way that today's producers are, and that this may be causing confusion. I think it's very obvious that Brian needs someone to work with him in the studio these days -- the only question is who that should be.

Indeed. This was something I was thinking about the other night ... what does Brian think a producer does? And I realized that for him, sitting in the booth, listening to the musicians, calling takes and offering suggestions, moving things along -- that's production. It's not arranging, which he can suggest through demos or charts or singing a line (or just have Mertens handle), and it's not engineering. It's not a technical job.

But today, when we think about record producers, we think about people who are almost exclusively technical. Bands themselves handle most of the work that would be called "production" in the 60s.

[Zach95]

See, the thing is, Brian is a producer from the sixties, and he's going to produce that way because that's what he's comfortable with. He's not going to delve into ProTools, like I said, when he knows nothing about it. 

Absolutely. And if what I said sounded like I thought otherwise, I worded it badly. I was just trying to point out that the job description of 'record producer' has changed immeasurably over the course of Brian's career, and from the sounds of it what Brian is doing is 'record production' in the way that he, or George Martin, or Phil Spector were record producers, not in the way that today's producers are, and that this may be causing confusion. I think it's very obvious that Brian needs someone to work with him in the studio these days -- the only question is who that should be.

Gotcha   I agree with you completely, the producer's job has dramatically changed, for example Nigel Godrich fills the role as both Radiohead's "producer" and "audio engineer".

[Runaways]

Theres a sense of denial around these parts

[Zach95]

Theres a sense of denial around these parts

Among those who actually believe Brian produced this album?

[Wirestone]

Theres a sense of denial around these parts

Among those who actually believe Brian produced this album?

I think he meant the other way. But he's cryptic!

[Shady]

If you don't break down and cry during Pacific Coast Highway/Summer's gone, you're a better man than me 

[Andy B]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

[pixletwin]

I am excited to leave work and pop this on the stereo. So very excited.

[Zach95]

Theres a sense of denial around these parts

Among those who actually believe Brian produced this album?

I think he meant the other way. But he's cryptic!

It's what I thought! But I wasn't sure...and immediately whipped out my guns  

[Heysaboda]

Theres a sense of denial around these parts

Among those who actually believe Brian produced this album?

I think he meant the other way. But he's cryptic!

Or, perhaps, Coptic??  In de Nile?

 

[Bicyclerider]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

I don't know . . . I think the solo Christmas album, the Gershwin album, and the Disney album all sound very similar . . .  to what I've heard from the Beach Boys new album.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Consider: when you heard of a new BB album, exactly how good did you imagine it would be ?

Point being, the finished product, irrespective of who did what, is easily 1000% better than such an album has any right to be.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I'm gonna wait to listen to the last 3 until tomorrow, when all I have to worry about is MUSIC.

[seltaeb1012002]

Some thoughts.. possibly irrelevant  

Does this look like the kinda guy who doesn't call the shots in a studio situation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuptvX3xYlg

If Brian was the one who gave Thomas' ideas a yes or a no... he's the producer, and the credit is correct.

Although, as a producer, I would've wanted a co-production credit if I was Thomas. But who knows what kind of situation they worked out. He certainly made out like a bandit on the pub side.

Had the mix/recording sounded like this.. I think Brian's influence on the production would be a little more clear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBNmMmNpYo

There's a lot to be said for that "live" sound that make up Brian's early productions. But I'm sure if cleaner, quantized, pitch perfect options were available to Brian in the 60's... u know the rest.

[DonnyL]

Consider: when you heard of a new BB album, exactly how good did you imagine it would be ?

Point being, the finished product, irrespective of who did what, is easily 1000% better than such an album has any right to be.

I have to say I agree with you there. Got my hopes up a little too high somewhere back there that it might be as good as Keepin' the Summer Alive or BB '85. But it does seem like it'll be better than Summer in Paradise and Stars & Stripes. Still on the fence as to how it compares to Still Cruisin (I have a soft spot for "In My Car").

[Andy B]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

I don't know . . . I think the solo Christmas album, the Gershwin album, and the Disney album all sound very similar . . .  to what I've heard from the Beach Boys new album.

Yeah (i was thinking more of including the BB's albums) but even those solo albums have their own sound to them.

What i was getting at, was what things identify a Brian Wilson production? Think of every record that bears the legend "Produced By Brian Wilson". What makes those uniquely Brian Wilson productions?

[Shady]

Consider: when you heard of a new BB album, exactly how good did you imagine it would be ?

Point being, the finished product, irrespective of who did what, is easily 1000% better than such an album has any right to be.

So true

[Mark H]

Consider: when you heard of a new BB album, exactly how good did you imagine it would be ?

Point being, the finished product, irrespective of who did what, is easily 1000% better than such an album has any right to be.

Absolutely!

Echoing the 'miracle' thread elsewhere here the idea of TLOS, BWPS, TSS and now TWGMTR was unthinkable at one point.

So happy that we have a new great BB album AND a world tour with Brian, Al, Mike & Bruce, and David of course!

If TWGMTR is the last hurrah for the band (I hope we get more) then it's a fantastic last chapter.

[AndrewHickey]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

They have, but there have been some features that have been constant in all of them. He tends to use the drums in interesting ways -- very rarely after about 1964 or so do you get him using a conventional drum kit playing standard patterns. In particular there's *far* less use of cymbal and hi-hat in drum parts on records Brian's produced than is normal.

He also has a fondness for two particular bass sounds. One is a trebly, hard sound, which he uses when he's got a prominent, melodic bass line on ballads (think much of Pet Sounds but also stuff like Everything I Need), while the other is a 'farting' sound, often played by an instrument other than a bass guitar but in the bass register (think the sax on the Honeys records, the bass harmonica on Friends or much of the Getting In Over My Head album, the moog on Love You).

Other things he does a lot might fall into the categories of songwriting or arrangement as much as production, but include things like having a tag which has completely new musical material, having multiple lead vocalists for songs, and having vocal arrangements that consist of very freely-moving lines at the top and bottom, with three-part block harmony moving in parallel in the middle.

These things have been in Brian's productions for pretty much all of his career. Some of them are evident on the songs from the new album that I've heard, others aren't.

However, there's *also* been a relatively consistent sonic ambience (for want of a better term) on most of Brian's solo recordings, but how much of that is him and how much is Mark Linnet is open to question, though the demos recorded with Andy Paley and Scott Bennett have something of the same quality. That sonic ambience isn't present on this album. Which is to be expected -- Brian's working with different people now.

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Thomas' official title is 'recording supervisor', which makes sense.

[MaxL]

Edit.

[MaxL]

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Thomas' official title is 'recording supervisor', which makes sense.

That's actually something I put on as a placeholder for when I can read what he actually does in the liner notes

[Freddie French-Pounce]

Random (good?) point - appears to be less 'loudness' on the album version - making the single a radio based production!
Top = Album, Bottom = Single

could also be that the album was a ripped CD, the single was not, but ah well...