New album info (as it rolls out...)

[DonnyL]

I have no problem with everyone enjoying the album and believing it is a BW production. I just don't think it is, that's all.

Because, of course, your beliefs trump repeated and regularly stated facts to the contrary.

As I've stated before, the production on the album sounds little like Imagination (which did have a Joe Thomas co-production and co-arranging credit) and much like TLOS or the Gershwin and Disney albums (which do not). Joe does say he oversaw the recording aspects of the new respect, which certainly explains some of the vocal processing or mixing decisions.

I don't really want to get into this, but these 'facts' are merely anecdotes. I don't think BW produced this any more than he produced MIU Album.

This record sounds a lot like Imagination to me -- that's an opinion. And that's mine, just as the 'fact' that it doesn't sound like it is yours. Sorry, I'm not going to subscribe to the groupthink or buy the media PR.  Time will likely provide more details and perspective.

If anyone is attempting to present opinion as fact, it is you.  I've never implied my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

Good day, sir !

The album says "Produced by Brian Wilson". So, are you calling Brian a dirty, rotten liar? (just to be sure, this is written with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

I guess I am.  Brian should have been credited 'Executive in Charge of Production for Brother Entertainment' instead.

I think the bigger thing to think about is that Joe Thomas wasn't credited as even a co-producer. So what was his official role exactly?

The way I see it, they figured they'll sell more records with just Brian's name listed.

[drbeachboy]

I have no problem with everyone enjoying the album and believing it is a BW production. I just don't think it is, that's all.

Because, of course, your beliefs trump repeated and regularly stated facts to the contrary.

As I've stated before, the production on the album sounds little like Imagination (which did have a Joe Thomas co-production and co-arranging credit) and much like TLOS or the Gershwin and Disney albums (which do not). Joe does say he oversaw the recording aspects of the new respect, which certainly explains some of the vocal processing or mixing decisions.

I don't really want to get into this, but these 'facts' are merely anecdotes. I don't think BW produced this any more than he produced MIU Album.

This record sounds a lot like Imagination to me -- that's an opinion. And that's mine, just as the 'fact' that it doesn't sound like it is yours. Sorry, I'm not going to subscribe to the groupthink or buy the media PR.  Time will likely provide more details and perspective.

If anyone is attempting to present opinion as fact, it is you.  I've never implied my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

Good day, sir !

The album says "Produced by Brian Wilson". So, are you calling Brian a dirty, rotten liar? (just to be sure, this is written with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

I guess I am.  Brian should have been credited 'Executive in Charge of Production for Brother Entertainment' instead.

I think the bigger thing to think about is that Joe Thomas wasn't credited as even a co-producer. So what was his official role exactly?

The way I see it, they figured they'll sell more records with just Brian's name listed.

I like that! That long title sounds important too.

[Wirestone]

So what was his official role exactly?

It's all explained in Joe's interview, posted over in the Newsweek article thread. http://andrewromano.tumblr.com/joethomasbeachboys

[TonyW]

Also, in terms of Brian's interest and participation: http://andrewromano.tumblr.com/joethomasbeachboys

So the genesis of the Beach Boys reunion started in Australia with Brian Wilson staring at his own feces rotating clockwise in the toilet bowl?

I LOVE THE BEACH BOYS WORLD!

  ;

[DonnyL]

It's all explained in Joe's interview, posted over in the Newsweek article thread. http://andrewromano.tumblr.com/joethomasbeachboys

At least according to Joe, he did not produce the album.

yeh, i've read the interview.

what is Joe's credit on the album exactly?

[18thofMay]

School yard bully in the house tonight....

"I am the one telling you how it is"

[Sheriff John Stone]

I don't really want to get into this, but these 'facts' are merely anecdotes. I don't think BW produced this any more than he produced MIU Album.

Your feelings and your emotions apparently trump anecdotes from people who were there during the recording process.

Let's talk about Carol Kaye.

And Hal Blaine. Wasn't there a recent post proving that he was "incorrect" about his contributions on an album. And, recently, some of Glen Campbell's comments/contributions have been called into question.

I'm not taking sides. Not anybody's. I'm struggling with issues myself. But, I made this comment recently and will probably make it again and again. IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU BELIEVE, OR DON'T BELIEVE. Joe Thomas has been pretty nice - and convincing - in his very descriptive comments about the new album. However, Brian Wilson has flat out, directly contradicted him (i. e. in the origin of "That's Why God Made The Radio" on Charlie Rose). So, who do you believe? Did Joe Thomas learn a valuable lesson from his previous tenure with Brian Wilson and his wife and managers and is just covering his ass? Or, is he telling the truth? I won't even begin to figure out Brian Wilson in 2012.

I'm just saying you can make the argument any way you want by using whatever "quotes" you want, or dismiss somebody else's argument the same way. Or, you can ignore everything you read and just use your gut...

[Rocker]

A little bit disappointed in the lack of actual Beach Boys playing on the record, but it's pretty obvious there was a rush to get this record finished. Makes sense to let the professionals bang it out than to plan around different schedules and do a million takes with 70 year old musicians.

Or maybe it's because none of the Beach Boys can play the needed instruments ? David's guitar is all over there, you don't need Al because other players can probably even do better than him. And although Bruce is a fantastic piano player that job was also done by someone who at least made it sound as good as Bruce would. So why in the world would one want the Beach Boys (except David) to play the instruments on that record ?

...because it's a Beach Boys record?

So is Pet Sounds, so what ?

[Wirestone]

Brian did spend all of last year telling anyone who would listen that he wasn't going to reunite with the boys. He's also said he burned the Smile tapes, that someone stole the Sweet Insanity masters, and that his music made a building burn down.

In recent years, I think Brian has consciously talked down his real and significant creative contributions to his albums. He is, I believe, so nervous about how they'll be received, and about competing in the modern marketplace, that he likes to say other people are responsible. This is of a piece with his day-to-day life, too, where Melinda gets to be the bad guy and Brian is behind the scenes at home, dodging responsibility. So he says lots of stuff about the origins of his records that's just dodging the subject or foisting it off on other people.

Anyhoo. I should be picking this up tomorrow. I'll report back.

[Mike Hunt]

Hi guys, long time loiterer and first time poster.

Really didn't like these tracks at first due to the production and vox processing. Have to say they're now growing on me. I agree with DonnyL on the most part here. I don't think this has the indefinable magic of a true Brian Wilson production, but hey, is such a thing possible now?

It is what it is. I'm thankful to be getting it, and it's really growing on me, (there's the magic)

Cheers, Mike

[Dave in KC]

What's that ? a challenger ?

I cannot believe that Mike, who portrays himself as this macho asshole "I'll kick your ass" persona... .has such a flamboyant wardrobe not so many years ago.  I love it, believe me, I do, I wish he'd pull out that sh*t now... but it's just SO STRANGE that the two Mikes are the same. 

BTW, has anybody ever tried to get an 8X10 of a picture like that autographed by Mike, and saw his reaction to it?

Oh heavens yes. Twice! This particular 8x10 has a shot of Mike and me in a lobby of a hotel after a show in 1969. It IS a great pic. In 1972, I showed it to Mike after a show and he looked at it and said, "Where did you get that?!" Then he stormed away quickly. The pic had him in his white robes. The second time was at one of his pre-concert TM get-togethers in 1988. He was much more pleasant with my wife present and dozens of others. But instead he just in a roundabout way asked if he could have it. I had copies, so I gave it up. I often wonder if he shredded it in his dressing room.

[startBBtoday]

A little bit disappointed in the lack of actual Beach Boys playing on the record, but it's pretty obvious there was a rush to get this record finished. Makes sense to let the professionals bang it out than to plan around different schedules and do a million takes with 70 year old musicians.

Or maybe it's because none of the Beach Boys can play the needed instruments ? David's guitar is all over there, you don't need Al because other players can probably even do better than him. And although Bruce is a fantastic piano player that job was also done by someone who at least made it sound as good as Bruce would. So why in the world would one want the Beach Boys (except David) to play the instruments on that record ?

...because it's a Beach Boys record?

So is Pet Sounds, so what ?

I noticed you removed the part of my post asking why in the world you wouldn't want the Beach Boys to play on this if they can. By your response does that mean that because Pet Sounds didn't, this shouldn't either? Seems slightly backwards.

I never said it was a tragedy or anything that they don't, as I said in my original post, I was "slightly disappointed." It would have been cool for Al or Bruce or Brian to play on the album... that's all.

[DonnyL]

In recent years, I think Brian has consciously talked down his real and significant creative contributions to his albums. He is, I believe, so nervous about how they'll be received, and about competing in the modern marketplace, that he likes to say other people are responsible. This is of a piece with his day-to-day life, too, where Melinda gets to be the bad guy and Brian is behind the scenes at home, dodging responsibility. So he says lots of stuff about the origins of his records that's just dodging the subject or foisting it off on other people.

Or maybe he's just not that involved.

[Rocker]

A little bit disappointed in the lack of actual Beach Boys playing on the record, but it's pretty obvious there was a rush to get this record finished. Makes sense to let the professionals bang it out than to plan around different schedules and do a million takes with 70 year old musicians.

Or maybe it's because none of the Beach Boys can play the needed instruments ? David's guitar is all over there, you don't need Al because other players can probably even do better than him. And although Bruce is a fantastic piano player that job was also done by someone who at least made it sound as good as Bruce would. So why in the world would one want the Beach Boys (except David) to play the instruments on that record ?

...because it's a Beach Boys record?

So is Pet Sounds, so what ?

I noticed you removed the part of my post asking why in the world you wouldn't want the Beach Boys to play on this if they can. By your response does that mean that because Pet Sounds didn't, this shouldn't either? Seems slightly backwards.

No. But my first post made it clear. If they just can't keep up with the session musicians, if they can't even play the instruments that are being called for then why should they play ? Don't get me wrong but I really can't see what could be so disappointing about that. David plays guitar on the new album because he's still got it and has a distinctive style while you probably never will hear someone say about a guitar part that that's "classic Jardine" (and I like Al as rhythm guitarist). Bruce was one of L.A.'s best piano players in the 60s according to some members of the Wrecking Crew (iirc) and yes, he's great. But still, no distinctive style that would add something unique to the music that couldn't be done by studio musicians

[Mikie]

'Scuse me for a second here. I just wanna welcome Mike Hunt to the board. I always liked Mike Hunt and his two Irish friends, Phil McCracken and Pat McGroin. And that other guy from Russia - what was his name again? Oh yeah, Oliver Clothesoff. Nice guys.

K, sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say Hi and welcome to Mike.  "Mike" is a good name by the way....

[startBBtoday]

A little bit disappointed in the lack of actual Beach Boys playing on the record, but it's pretty obvious there was a rush to get this record finished. Makes sense to let the professionals bang it out than to plan around different schedules and do a million takes with 70 year old musicians.

Or maybe it's because none of the Beach Boys can play the needed instruments ? David's guitar is all over there, you don't need Al because other players can probably even do better than him. And although Bruce is a fantastic piano player that job was also done by someone who at least made it sound as good as Bruce would. So why in the world would one want the Beach Boys (except David) to play the instruments on that record ?

...because it's a Beach Boys record?

So is Pet Sounds, so what ?

I noticed you removed the part of my post asking why in the world you wouldn't want the Beach Boys to play on this if they can. By your response does that mean that because Pet Sounds didn't, this shouldn't either? Seems slightly backwards.

No. But my first post made it clear. If they just can't keep up with the session musicians, if they can't even play the instruments that are being called for then why should they play ? Don't get me wrong but I really can't see what could be so disappointing about that. David plays guitar on the new album because he's still got it and has a distinctive style while you probably never will hear someone say about a guitar part that that's "classic Jardine" (and I like Al as rhythm guitarist). Bruce was one of L.A.'s best piano players in the 60s according to some members of the Wrecking Crew (iirc) and yes, he's great. But still, no distinctive style that would add something unique to the music that couldn't be done by studio musicians

I suppose we just disagree. If Al or Bruce can play a part just as well as a studio musician, I'd rather them play it than a non-Beach Boy. In the grand scheme, it obviously makes no difference.

[Justin]

Anyone in LA know of a place who might have the new album early?

[b00ts]

I have no problem with everyone enjoying the album and believing it is a BW production. I just don't think it is, that's all.

Because, of course, your beliefs trump repeated and regularly stated facts to the contrary.

As I've stated before, the production on the album sounds little like Imagination (which did have a Joe Thomas co-production and co-arranging credit) and much like TLOS or the Gershwin and Disney albums (which do not). Joe does say he oversaw the recording aspects of the new respect, which certainly explains some of the vocal processing or mixing decisions.

I don't really want to get into this, but these 'facts' are merely anecdotes. I don't think BW produced this any more than he produced MIU Album.

This record sounds a lot like Imagination to me -- that's an opinion. And that's mine, just as the 'fact' that it doesn't sound like it is yours. Sorry, I'm not going to subscribe to the groupthink or buy the media PR.  Time will likely provide more details and perspective.

If anyone is attempting to present opinion as fact, it is you.  I've never implied my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

Good day, sir !

The album says "Produced by Brian Wilson". So, are you calling Brian a dirty, rotten liar? (just to be sure, this is written with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

I guess I am.  Brian should have been credited 'Executive in Charge of Production for Brother Entertainment' instead.

I think the bigger thing to think about is that Joe Thomas wasn't credited as even a co-producer. So what was his official role exactly?

The way I see it, they figured they'll sell more records with just Brian's name listed.

Donny, I enjoy your posts. I agree with many of your points and I find them to be a refreshing antidote to the groupthink that has pervaded the board as of late. I don't think you are giving Brian enough credit as the primary force behind this record, though.

The new album should probably be "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas" or the other way around. Brian's name has cachet. That producer credit sells records. I don't think it is reasonable to say that Brian should be Executive Producer, which is largely an honorary title.

Brian steered the direction of the album in most respects, although Thomas' production and arrangements poke through, especially during moments like the garish panning wordless harmony in "Strange World" (which would sound beautiful center-stage) and the unfortunate use of pitch correction as an effect. There are also moments like the bass harmonica in "Beaches in Mind" that are awkwardly added to evoke Brian's 1960s output.

Overall, though, it seems like Joe Thomas has grown as a producer and engineer, and has made an effort to respect Brian's legacy more. This affects the sound of the album greatly. There are Imagination-style moments and arrangements (like the nylon-stringed guitar in "Strange World," but overall That's Why God Made the Radio is much more Brian Wilson-sounding than Imagination.

The reality is that Brian delegates a lot nowadays, and leaves people to pick up his slack. As has been discussed on this board, Brian employed people like Chuck Britz and the Wrecking Crew in his prime, and he has always been a chiefly collaborative writer. In 2012, he sets the direction of the project, chimes in on production and arrangement where appropriate, sometimes taking control and arranging himself when necessary, and writes the songs.

Of course, the songs are all co-writes. Wirestone had an excellent post about how Scott and Brians' collaboration for That Lucky Old Sun operated similarly to the songwriting process for That's Why God Made the Radio. In this case, Brian wrote tons of fragments of songs, and unearthed some songs from the late 1990s. The fragments were completed by Thomas, Peterik, Miles, and in one case Jon Bon Jovi.. I never thought I'd own and enjoy a song co-written by him, but he did a great job.

So, a lot of the songs were started by Brian and completed by others... but those songs, and Brian's production motif, set the tone for the record. Thomas acted as co-producer and fleshed things out. The other Beach Boys were largely tracked separately where needed, as on Pet Sounds. This is an album where the balance of power has shifted almost entirely back to Brian and his chosen collaborators (who I wish were Andy Paley, Van Dyke Parks and Scott Bennett, but they're not). It hasn't been this way since 1977, so "Produced by Brian Wilson" or "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas" is entirely appropriate.

Hell, Rick Rubin sits on a couch for five minutes once a week and earns a fair bit of money as a producer.

[DonnyL]

I have no problem with everyone enjoying the album and believing it is a BW production. I just don't think it is, that's all.

Because, of course, your beliefs trump repeated and regularly stated facts to the contrary.

As I've stated before, the production on the album sounds little like Imagination (which did have a Joe Thomas co-production and co-arranging credit) and much like TLOS or the Gershwin and Disney albums (which do not). Joe does say he oversaw the recording aspects of the new respect, which certainly explains some of the vocal processing or mixing decisions.

I don't really want to get into this, but these 'facts' are merely anecdotes. I don't think BW produced this any more than he produced MIU Album.

This record sounds a lot like Imagination to me -- that's an opinion. And that's mine, just as the 'fact' that it doesn't sound like it is yours. Sorry, I'm not going to subscribe to the groupthink or buy the media PR.  Time will likely provide more details and perspective.

If anyone is attempting to present opinion as fact, it is you.  I've never implied my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

Good day, sir !

The album says "Produced by Brian Wilson". So, are you calling Brian a dirty, rotten liar? (just to be sure, this is written with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

I guess I am.  Brian should have been credited 'Executive in Charge of Production for Brother Entertainment' instead.

I think the bigger thing to think about is that Joe Thomas wasn't credited as even a co-producer. So what was his official role exactly?

The way I see it, they figured they'll sell more records with just Brian's name listed.

Donny, I enjoy your posts. I agree with many of your points and I find them to be a refreshing antidote to the groupthink that has pervaded the board as of late. I don't think you are giving Brian enough credit as the primary force behind this record, though.

The new album should probably be "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas" or the other way around. Brian's name has cachet. That producer credit sells records. I don't think it is reasonable to say that Brian should be Executive Producer, which is largely an honorary title.

Brian steered the direction of the album in most respects, although Thomas' production and arrangements poke through, especially during moments like the garish panning wordless harmony in "Strange World" (which would sound beautiful center-stage) and the unfortunate use of pitch correction as an effect. There are also moments like the bass harmonica in "Beaches in Mind" that are awkwardly added to evoke Brian's 1960s output.

Overall, though, it seems like Joe Thomas has grown as a producer and engineer, and has made an effort to respect Brian's legacy more. This affects the sound of the album greatly. There are Imagination-style moments and arrangements (like the nylon-stringed guitar in "Strange World," but overall That's Why God Made the Radio is much more Brian Wilson-sounding than Imagination.

The reality is that Brian delegates a lot nowadays, and leaves people to pick up his slack. As has been discussed on this board, Brian employed people like Chuck Britz and the Wrecking Crew in his prime, and he has always been a chiefly collaborative writer. In 2012, he sets the direction of the project, chimes in on production and arrangement where appropriate, sometimes taking control and arranging himself when necessary, and writes the songs.

Of course, the songs are all co-writes. Wirestone had an excellent post about how Scott and Brians' collaboration for That Lucky Old Sun operated similarly to the songwriting process for That's Why God Made the Radio. In this case, Brian wrote tons of fragments of songs, and unearthed some songs from the late 1990s. The fragments were completed by Thomas, Peterik, Miles, and in one case Jon Bon Jovi.. I never thought I'd own and enjoy a song co-written by him, but he did a great job.

So, a lot of the songs were started by Brian and completed by others... but those songs, and Brian's production motif, set the tone for the record. Thomas acted as co-producer and fleshed things out. The other Beach Boys were largely tracked separately where needed, as on Pet Sounds. This is an album where the balance of power has shifted almost entirely back to Brian and his chosen collaborators (who I wish were Andy Paley, Van Dyke Parks and Scott Bennett, but they're not). It hasn't been this way since 1977, so "Produced by Brian Wilson" or "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas" is entirely appropriate.

Hell, Rick Rubin sits on a couch for five minutes once a week and earns a fair bit of money as a producer.

Yeh, I appreciate your perspective and agree with you to some degree.

And there is certainly gray area with regard to what a producer is.  But BW was always a very distinct producer.  And maybe he just isn't anymore. Maybe this is how he produces now. But I have a gut feeling that in the right environment, we would have a very different album.

yeh, i was joking about the 'exec' title (for the record, that was a jab at Mike Love's credit on Summer in Paradise).

I don't doubt he was involved. Probably more so than any of the other Beach Boys. I also don't doubt the creative seeds came from him.

But the way those drums sound ... those cymbal crashes, the way the drummers play ... just doesn't add up. If he were producing, I just can't see how he would let that stuff fly ... the panning of the fills. Just total MOR schlock. It's just so by-the-book; modern day engineering 'standards' abound. Nothing 'Beach Boys' about the sound really.

Some of the parts I've heard sound kind of interesting here and there (bass & flute on 'From Here to Back Again'). But as an overall package, I just can't really get behind it.

Well, you know I hate to be a downer, but it just seems like something that was put together to get a 50th Anniversary album, nothing more. And that's cool. But I'd hoped to get something at least on par with Keepin the Summer Alive.

And I feel like I should state my real opinion. I don't want to come off as negative and not supporting the only new Beach Boys album that's come out in my adult life. I've been on the fence about it and decided to come right out because I think some people might be thinking it too but afraid to confront their doubts.

Don't get me wrong.  The Beach Boys will never lose it; with me they're still number one.  But something seems really off about this product.

[RickD]

Also, in terms of Brian's interest and participation: http://andrewromano.tumblr.com/joethomasbeachboys

So the genesis of the Beach Boys reunion started in Australia with Brian Wilson staring at his own feces rotating clockwise in the toilet bowl?

I LOVE THE BEACH BOYS WORLD!

  ;

possibly at the Orient Hotel!!

[Zach95]

I caved, and decided to listen to Isn't It Time and Private Life.  Really loved Isn't It Time, around halfway through I found myself smiling at the fact I was listening to a new Beach Boys track during my lifetime.  Private Life really has an interesting concept behind it, I really dig the theme.  The song's mediocre, however, I'm not a huge fan of the instrumentation.  The radio bit at the end is clever, though!

It seems as though both tracks really had rockin' choruses.  I mean, the refrain on Isn't It Time is killer, and I think the band (or Brian for that matter) figured it out themselves and thus decided to repeat it a few times at the end.  Even the chorus to Private Life is real strong, I love the background vox and Brian's lead.  However, the bridges on both pieces seem a little weak.  The same goes for TWGMTR. Based on what we've heard regarding the origins of the record, with Brian playing demos and snippets of songs for Joe Thomas, I would go as far to say that the refrains to many of these songs (and the verses, to some degree, as well) were Brian's creation.  The middle eights on these songs seem less Brian-esque.  Just a guess, I'm wondering if anyone else feels this way.

In any event, I'm beyond stoked for the record.  I'm convinced this will be the best Beach Boys record since Love You, and based on what I've heard so far I doubt I'll be disappointed.  These songs seem really strong, so far.

EDIT: Scratch the possibility that Brian wrote the chorus to Private Life, it was noted in that Joe Thomas interview transcript that Joe wrote the chorus, not Brian.

[onkster]

For some reason, in my head, "Bill and Sue" keeps segueing into "Sub Rosa Subway" by Klaatu.

Are Klaatu really the Beach Boys?

















(No, they're not.)

[onkster]

Think about it: most of the album is out--5 tracks today, 2 on Dutch Radio, plus Do It Again (though not on the album), plus a bunch of scraps.

[Runaways]

Think about it: most of the album is out--5 tracks today, 2 on Dutch Radio, plus Do It Again (though not on the album), plus a bunch of scraps.

Well there's slight overlap.  Spring Vacation was one of the dutch.  This is common for big releases nowadays, I'm surprised the whole album wasn't streaming from somewhere.  I've only heard 2 though hehe

[onkster]

You're right. Even so, much to be thankful for. Something to keep in mind, everyone.